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Post by northwestman on Apr 1, 2020 9:57:52 GMT 1
Meanwhile, the economy goes down the pan, with the banks unsurprisingly putting the boot in. www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52114414Nearly a fifth of all small and medium-sized businesses in the UK are unlikely to get the cash they need to survive the next four weeks, in spite of unprecedented government support. That's according to research published today, which suggests that between 800,000 and a million businesses nationwide may soon have to close. Many firms have told the BBC that banks have refused them emergency loans. Others can't get through on the phone or were told the money will take weeks. The banks say they are following the rules set out by the government.
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Post by Chief Inspector Swan on Apr 1, 2020 10:58:48 GMT 1
Meanwhile, the economy goes down the pan, with the banks unsurprisingly putting the boot in. www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52114414Nearly a fifth of all small and medium-sized businesses in the UK are unlikely to get the cash they need to survive the next four weeks, in spite of unprecedented government support. That's according to research published today, which suggests that between 800,000 and a million businesses nationwide may soon have to close. Many firms have told the BBC that banks have refused them emergency loans. Others can't get through on the phone or were told the money will take weeks. The banks say they are following the rules set out by the government. Quite a sombre April Fool feller?
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Post by aghabullogueshrew on Apr 1, 2020 11:07:16 GMT 1
Here's a crazy idea to protect the NHS, DON'T test people in hospitals! For example, if I think I have the Covid 19 virus, the last place I want to go to is a bloody hospital, which is riddled with the virus and being staffed by overworked and completely knackered staff! I would like to ring my GP, not visit, and explain my symptoms to them. They can then make a professional decision on whether I need a test or not. If I do, they can then make an appointment at an out of hospital testing centre or arrange and home test if I am housebound. If I am diagnosed with the illness, I go into self isolation unless the case is severe, then I call for an ambulance. The patients that should be in hospital should be DEFINITE cases and not PROBABLE cases who will turn into definite cases.
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Post by Chief Inspector Swan on Apr 1, 2020 11:21:25 GMT 1
Here's a crazy idea to protect the NHS, DON'T test people in hospitals! For example, if I think I have the Covid 19 virus, the last place I want to go to is a bloody hospital, which is riddled with the virus and being staffed by overworked and completely knackered staff! I would like to ring my GP, not visit, and explain my symptoms to them. They can then make a professional decision on whether I need a test or not. If I do, they can then make an appointment at an out of hospital testing centre or arrange and home test if I am housebound. If I am diagnosed with the illness, I go into self isolation unless the case is severe, then I call for an ambulance. The patients that should be in hospital should be DEFINITE cases and not PROBABLE cases who will turn into definite cases. There’s nothing quite like a ranting expat, basing their arguments entirely around anecdotal populism which served simply to reinforce a previously held point of view. Let’s not consider empirical evidence or the input from the scientific community.
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Post by aghabullogueshrew on Apr 1, 2020 11:45:07 GMT 1
Here's a crazy idea to protect the NHS, DON'T test people in hospitals! For example, if I think I have the Covid 19 virus, the last place I want to go to is a bloody hospital, which is riddled with the virus and being staffed by overworked and completely knackered staff! I would like to ring my GP, not visit, and explain my symptoms to them. They can then make a professional decision on whether I need a test or not. If I do, they can then make an appointment at an out of hospital testing centre or arrange and home test if I am housebound. If I am diagnosed with the illness, I go into self isolation unless the case is severe, then I call for an ambulance. The patients that should be in hospital should be DEFINITE cases and not PROBABLE cases who will turn into definite cases. There’s nothing quite like a ranting expat, basing their arguments entirely around anecdotal populism which served simply to reinforce a previously held point of view. Let’s not consider empirical evidence or the input from the scientific community. Firstly, this isn't a rant. What I stated above is more or less what is happening in Ireland. The scientific community in the UK first recommended herd immunity, which can also be called survival of the fittest. Now previously healthy people are dying and now most people have realised that the reason the UK is now where it is is because of the herd immunity option. I cannot travel more than 2 km from my house, except for shopping and medical appointments, I must keep social distancing from all non household people, and if I suspect I have the Covid 19 virus, I must self isolate and call my GP to arrange a test. This a commonsensical approach. I know that a lot more people will die, I just hope that we can find a cure and vaccine before it's too late. Stay home, stay safe.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 1, 2020 11:45:13 GMT 1
There is a big difference between Covid-19 causing death, and Covid-19 being found in someone who died of other causes.
Unless we tighten criteria for recording death due only to the virus (as opposed to it being present in those who died from other conditions), the official figures may show a lot more deaths apparently caused by the virus than is actually the case. What then? How do we measure the health consequences of taking people’s lives, jobs, leisure and purpose away from them to protect them from an anticipated threat? Which causes least harm?
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Post by northwestman on Apr 1, 2020 11:55:48 GMT 1
And here's what happens once we are on the restrictions path. Even more restrictions:- As Greece enters its third week since restrictive measures were first imposed to combat the spread of coronavirus, there is mounting concern that fatigue is setting in amid signs of people beginning to flout the policies. Speaking to ANT1 TV, the government spokesman Stelios Petsas said the centre-right administration was now considering placing a time limit on the movement of citizens outdoors. The prospect of allowing people out of their homes only “once or twice and combining their movements [so that] they are brief” was being mulled, he said.
The Guardian.
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 1, 2020 12:29:03 GMT 1
Here's the statistical data based on China of how many deaths Coronavirus caused. Risk of death from Covid 19 by age group. Age 0-9: 0.0094% Age 10-19: 0.022% Age 20-29: 0.091% Age 30-39: 0.18% Age 40-49: 0.4% Age 50-59: 1.3% Age 60-69: 4.6% Age 70-79: 9.8% Age 80+: 18% Full pdf available at www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.04.20031104v1.full.pdf
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Post by bictonshrew on Apr 1, 2020 12:41:42 GMT 1
Here's a crazy idea to protect the NHS, DON'T test people in hospitals! For example, if I think I have the Covid 19 virus, the last place I want to go to is a bloody hospital, which is riddled with the virus and being staffed by overworked and completely knackered staff! I would like to ring my GP, not visit, and explain my symptoms to them. They can then make a professional decision on whether I need a test or not. If I do, they can then make an appointment at an out of hospital testing centre or arrange and home test if I am housebound. If I am diagnosed with the illness, I go into self isolation unless the case is severe, then I call for an ambulance. The patients that should be in hospital should be DEFINITE cases and not PROBABLE cases who will turn into definite cases. That IS what's happening! If you have symptoms, self isolate. Even if you don't, EVERYONE should be practicing social-distancing. If you can't cope with symptoms by self-isolating then phone 111. If you're deemed to be an emergency then you will be admitted. You don't wait until you have it, to self-isolate!!
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 1, 2020 12:53:19 GMT 1
Here's a crazy idea to protect the NHS, DON'T test people in hospitals! For example, if I think I have the Covid 19 virus, the last place I want to go to is a bloody hospital, which is riddled with the virus and being staffed by overworked and completely knackered staff! I would like to ring my GP, not visit, and explain my symptoms to them. They can then make a professional decision on whether I need a test or not. If I do, they can then make an appointment at an out of hospital testing centre or arrange and home test if I am housebound. If I am diagnosed with the illness, I go into self isolation unless the case is severe, then I call for an ambulance. The patients that should be in hospital should be DEFINITE cases and not PROBABLE cases who will turn into definite cases. That IS what's happening! If you have symptoms, self isolate. Even if you don't, EVERYONE should be practicing social-distancing. If you can't cope with symptoms by self-isolating then phone 111. If you're deemed to be an emergency then you will be admitted. You don't wait until you have it, to self-isolate!! And the out of hospital testing centre for Shrewsbury is going to be Shrewsbury Towns stadium car park. Our leaders may be a bit slow, but we are getting there, might even have proper ppe for frontline staff soon. It just realisation of a pandemic to focus their (tiny) minds.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 1, 2020 13:16:55 GMT 1
fortunently my daughters area has the equipment if not as a front line member of staff i would be bying her hazmatts , gloves and face masks from amazon.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 1, 2020 13:19:29 GMT 1
That IS what's happening! If you have symptoms, self isolate. Even if you don't, EVERYONE should be practicing social-distancing. If you can't cope with symptoms by self-isolating then phone 111. If you're deemed to be an emergency then you will be admitted. You don't wait until you have it, to self-isolate!! And the out of hospital testing centre for Shrewsbury is going to be Shrewsbury Towns stadium car park. Our leaders may be a bit slow, but we are getting there, might even have proper ppe for frontline staff soon. It just realisation of a pandemic to focus their (tiny) minds. the WHO sent out a warning on Feb 7th that there would soon be supply problems of PPE eqipment . unfortently our goverment seemed to ignore it unlike germany who ensured all staff had the equipment they needed.
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Post by aghabullogueshrew on Apr 1, 2020 13:59:09 GMT 1
The one area that concerns me most about the UK and Irish approach is the initial testing. In Ireland, if you think you have Covid 19, you ring your GP, explain your symptoms and he makes a professional decision on whether you get a test or not. In the UK, if you suspect you have Covid 19, you self isolate for a few days before calling the NHS if you feel bad and then arrange a test. This means you could have wasted 4 o 5 days waiting for a test in the UK compared to Ireland. I find that very concerning!
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Post by bictonshrew on Apr 1, 2020 14:03:57 GMT 1
You're aware of the different populations of Ireland and the UK?
You would not have 'wasted' any time as you should have been isolating anyway - regardless of having a test.
You seem quite limited in your knowledge of how things are carried out here.
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Post by Worthingshrew on Apr 1, 2020 15:19:31 GMT 1
563 deaths in UK just reported for yesterday. I doubt we’ll hear about green shoots in today’s conference. Great pressure now on the Govt about shortage of tests and PPE.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Apr 1, 2020 15:36:00 GMT 1
563 deaths in UK just reported for yesterday. I doubt we’ll hear about green shoots in today’s conference. Great pressure now on the Govt about shortage of tests and PPE. Deaths doubling just over every three days. This has been fairly consistent. Due to break 10,000 mark in a week's time at current rates and there seems little that can prevent that. People losing it slightily on twitter that on the basis of one days tally we're diverting from Italy. But we know that a proportion of the people in that 563 are not going to represent the current situation ebcause they will have died some days ago. We are moving in step with Italy. That is bad enough. This is exponential growth for you. Then there is a possibility of a discontinuity potentially caused by the NHS having to put a larger number of cases into the palliative care " do not resusitate" category if the shortage of ventilators hits home, as I think it has now in London. Did people see the letter to patients with pre-existing conditions from their GP in Bridgend?
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Post by northwestman on Apr 1, 2020 16:06:28 GMT 1
news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-anger-is-growing-at-china-over-covid-19-and-its-apparent-cover-up-attempt-11966539We've long known about the dangers of a wild animal virus leaping the species gap and ravaging humans and so have the Chinese. They have been told repeatedly about the risks posed by their animal markets for decades. In 2005, we filmed secretly while being offered pangolins, rare lizards and snakes in an endangered animal restaurant in southern China. Year in, year out since, the Chinese have been warned by virologists that it was only a matter of time before a new lethal virus was unleashed threatening a global pandemic if the status quo was preserved. And yet the restaurants and markets have remained open. Making matters worse, once that nightmare scenario came to pass, the Chinese appear to have tried to cover up their outbreak at first. Doctors were punished and persecuted for reporting it. Some of them have died. And according to reports this weekend, the British government has been told the Chinese may have lied about the extent of their own outbreak by a factor of 40. Precious time was lost for other countries to prepare for the virus and when they did, it seems it was based on fudged figures and dodgy data.
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 1, 2020 16:08:25 GMT 1
Dodgy data? It didn't take a genius or loads of stats to realise that something was going on in China. That was followed by a very speedy ramp up in Italy, we just didn't want to suspend normal business until the steamroller got to our toes.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Apr 1, 2020 16:38:00 GMT 1
Yes it was 20th January when China warned about the disease.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 1, 2020 16:46:38 GMT 1
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/01/lockdown-buys-time-virus-mass-testing-coronavirus-ukAfter squandering valuable time to prepare for the spread of Covid-19 in February and the first half of March, the government made a dramatic U-turn and put the country into lockdown two weeks ago. But amid the drama of shutting down our entire way of life – with kids out of school, shops closed and millions working from home – we appear to have forgotten that lockdown itself is not the solution to coronavirus. It is simply a means of slowing its spread and buying time – while we race to catch up. The real question facing Britain now is how to most effectively make up for lost time: what can we really do to fight this instead of simply cowering in our homes and waiting for it to blow over? If things carry on much as they are now, one possible scenario is that we will find ourselves in an endless cycle of lockdown and release over the next year – while the population slowly acquires the virus and hopefully gains immunity. Therefore, the challenge for the government (in the absence of a vaccine or treatment) is to ensure that healthcare capacity is not overwhelmed; that while the virus is transmitted throughout the population, the percentage who require either hospitalisation or an ICU bed are able to access that care and survive. The burden on the NHS will be tremendous, especially given concerns about lack of appropriate personal protective equipment, and this will have knock-on effects on other services it offers: routine surgery, cancer treatment, the ability to deal with emergencies such as heart attacks and strokes. The decision whether to extend lockdown will be made by looking at the modelling of NHS capacity in three weeks’ time as well as assessing public willingness to comply.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 1, 2020 16:47:40 GMT 1
'The decision whether to extend lockdown will be made by looking at the modelling of NHS capacity in three weeks’ time as well as assessing public willingness to comply'.
Neatly sums things up.
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 1, 2020 17:52:07 GMT 1
One thing I have noticed in the daily briefings - nobody ever asks how Boris is?
I am trying to limit news input and haven't seen anything about him lately. I expect Northwestman's Daily Mail has it covered?
Get well soon Boris, the Nation needs you, if only to cheer us up a bit.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 1, 2020 18:03:53 GMT 1
Alok Sharma's answer to the question as to why we aren't doing as well as Germany shows why he's a politician.
He didn't answer it.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 1, 2020 18:08:10 GMT 1
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 1, 2020 18:25:12 GMT 1
Was going to go to The Fringe this year, that's gone. But every cloud has a silver lining: The Archers is on less often and Wimbledon is cancelled.
Just how close did Boris' photographer get? I have always my photos at a "social distance". Hope both the snapper and Boris get well soon.
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Post by Chief Inspector Swan on Apr 1, 2020 18:42:06 GMT 1
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/01/lockdown-buys-time-virus-mass-testing-coronavirus-ukAfter squandering valuable time to prepare for the spread of Covid-19 in February and the first half of March, the government made a dramatic U-turn and put the country into lockdown two weeks ago. But amid the drama of shutting down our entire way of life – with kids out of school, shops closed and millions working from home – we appear to have forgotten that lockdown itself is not the solution to coronavirus. It is simply a means of slowing its spread and buying time – while we race to catch up. The real question facing Britain now is how to most effectively make up for lost time: what can we really do to fight this instead of simply cowering in our homes and waiting for it to blow over? If things carry on much as they are now, one possible scenario is that we will find ourselves in an endless cycle of lockdown and release over the next year – while the population slowly acquires the virus and hopefully gains immunity. Therefore, the challenge for the government (in the absence of a vaccine or treatment) is to ensure that healthcare capacity is not overwhelmed; that while the virus is transmitted throughout the population, the percentage who require either hospitalisation or an ICU bed are able to access that care and survive. The burden on the NHS will be tremendous, especially given concerns about lack of appropriate personal protective equipment, and this will have knock-on effects on other services it offers: routine surgery, cancer treatment, the ability to deal with emergencies such as heart attacks and strokes. The decision whether to extend lockdown will be made by looking at the modelling of NHS capacity in three weeks’ time as well as assessing public willingness to comply. “dramatic U-turn” Shameful misrepresentation. It was outlined at the very start that the policy would evolve and could eventually lead to extreme measures such as these. To be expected from the Tory, police and Swan Constabulary hating Grauniad!
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Post by northwestman on Apr 1, 2020 19:21:36 GMT 1
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Post by SeanBroseley on Apr 1, 2020 19:49:58 GMT 1
Anyone with excel and the data from China could figure out herd immunity would be a s**tshow. Lockdown and release and lockdown again seems a very likely scenario to me. Lockdown plus testing and tracking down seems the better approach. But I don't see us doing that.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 1, 2020 20:38:25 GMT 1
While scepticism continues to swirl over China's reporting methods, there are concerns from western officials that Iran, Russia, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and North Korea, which has not reported any cases, are also under-counting their cases and death tolls.
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Post by Pilch on Apr 1, 2020 22:17:43 GMT 1
While scepticism continues to swirl over China's reporting methods, there are concerns from western officials that Iran, Russia, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and North Korea, which has not reported any cases, are also under-counting their cases and death tolls. until a day or 2 ago so were we
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