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Post by SeanBroseley on Apr 2, 2020 3:44:17 GMT 1
The threat presented by coronavirus has been known for some time. linkIt seems that you don't start your preparations once it breaks out.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 2, 2020 8:23:17 GMT 1
Questions without answers.
Government fails to explain testing and lockdown strategy.
. Unable to say why Britain's testing lags so far behind other nations as deaths rise.
. Unable to answer why so few NHS workers are being tested.
. Unable to explain why medics are being turned away from new testing facilities.
' Unable to reveal lockdown exit strategy or when new antibody tests will be ready.
Daily Telegraph.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 2, 2020 8:38:35 GMT 1
Ministers were on Wednesday night unable to answer basic questions about when Britain’s testing regime for coronavirus is to be increased dramatically in scale to allow the country to plan its exit from lockdown.
After days of mounting concerns over the growing testing crisis, it is still unclear when NHS workers are to be tested, when mass testing for the population is to be rolled out or even whether the Government has a plan to end the nation’s quarantine.
Asked repeatedly at the Downing Street press conference about why Britain lags behind other nations in testing, Alok Sharma, the Business Secretary, said “increasing testing capacity is absolutely the Government’s top priority”, but failed to explain when the numbers would increase.
There is understood to be frustration within government over Public Health England, which is responsible for testing and is not thought to be rising to the challenge. Ministers are expected to bring in the private sector and universities in the coming days.
Health bosses on Wednesday night claimed that the country has the necessary laboratories to carry out 100,000 tests a day – eight times the current stated capacity – but does not have the swabs and reagents needed to detect the virus. Other countries are understood to have ordered the raw materials before the UK.
On Wednesday, just 10,000 tests were conducted, with NHS workers turned away from new testing sites in car parks. Mr Sharma was unable to say when the country would hit a target set by the Prime Minister last month for tests to be increased to 25,000 a day.
Daily Telegraph.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 2, 2020 8:44:55 GMT 1
While scepticism continues to swirl over China's reporting methods, there are concerns from western officials that Iran, Russia, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and North Korea, which has not reported any cases, are also under-counting their cases and death tolls. since iran have built mass graves i dread to think how many people have died. there is a you tube clip showing the new mas gravyards and bodies in body bags.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 2, 2020 9:09:58 GMT 1
While scepticism continues to swirl over China's reporting methods, there are concerns from western officials that Iran, Russia, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and North Korea, which has not reported any cases, are also under-counting their cases and death tolls. since iran have built mass graves i dread to think how many people have died. there is a you tube clip showing the new mas gravyards and bodies in body bags. It seems somewhat ironic that the Countries who have recorded the worst death rates are likely to be the ones who have been the most honest.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 2, 2020 9:15:48 GMT 1
Is there really any point to these daily news conferences? It’s not much use asking all these questions, if ministers are either unwilling or unable to say anything that might come within a five-mile radius of a proper answer.
Of course we’re all used to politicians dodging awkward questions. But this is a national emergency. People need clarity and candour. This evening, all they got was 24 minutes of the most pitiful, dispiriting waffle.
When these news conferences started up a couple of weeks ago, they were all hosted by Boris Johnson, but since he fell ill it’s been a different minister every day: Michael Gove, Dominic Raab, Rishi Sunak, Robert Jenrick. This time the name pulled out of the Downing Street hat was that of Alok Sharma, the little-known Business Secretary.
The best that can be said about Mr Sharma’s performance is that he managed to read out his scripted statement without mishap. Even then, his air of portentous solemnity tended to be slightly undermined by his close physical resemblance to one of those enormous teddy bears you see advertised as prizes at fairground shooting ranges. It was a strange contrast: the cuddliness of his appearance versus the stern disapproval of his manner. As he glared at me down the barrel of the camera, I felt as if I were being told off by Winnie the Pooh for stealing his honey.
Then again, perhaps the comparison is unfair, because Winnie the Pooh would probably have given more informative answers to the questions that followed.
Once again, journalists asked why so few tests were being carried out – and as before, they didn’t get a proper answer. Once again, they asked why so many NHS staff hadn’t received the protective equipment they needed – and as before, they didn’t get a proper answer. Once again, they asked how come Germany was able to carry out so many more tests than Britain was – and as before, they didn’t get a proper answer.
Mr Sharma’s response to the question about Germany was particularly feeble. He insisted that the Government was always “looking to see where we can learn throughout this process” (without disclosing what, if anything, it had learned). He promised that the Government was “working with industry and the scientific community” to “make sure we have the maximum possible supplies” (so how come the Germans had vastly more?). He protested that the Government was having “to do something at huge scale, very fast” (unlike Germany?). But he assured us that it was “making progress” and would “continue to make progress” (without supplying a shred of evidence to support either assertion).
In full, his answer to the question about Germany lasted 50 seconds – and didn’t mention Germany even once.
No word yet on who’ll be hosting tomorrow’s news conference. They might as well go with Dilyn the dog.
Daily Telegraph.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 2, 2020 9:40:40 GMT 1
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8177785/Staggering-incompetence-public-health-fatcats.htmlIt was scandalous to discover yesterday that officials at Public Health England have repeatedly failed to take up multiple offers from some of the country's leading scientific organisations willing to help expand the testing programme. Many medical experts blame PHE's reluctance to accept help on a mixture of control freakery and incompetence among senior staff. For example, whereas other countries weeks ago the sensible decision to relax the rules on which laboratories can carry out coronavirus tests, in order to get as many as possible done, PHE chose to follow a tightly controlled approach. Initially, it therefore insisted that all testing in the UK was done at its own lab in north London. This contrasts vividly with the approach in Germany, where both private and publicly-owned laboratories have been testing relentlessly since the start of the crisis.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 2, 2020 9:46:49 GMT 1
www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8178335/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Testing-way-end-Prime-Minister-grip.htmlIt stretches credulity to relentlessly parrot, as ministers have, that Britain was one of the best-prepared countries to deal with the coronavirus. The evidence from the NHS front line is the opposite. The lack of protective equipment for heroic doctors and nurses battling the virus and the woeful shortage of life-saving ventilators for stricken patients are obvious examples. But undoubtedly the most glaring failure is the testing fiasco. So far, a lamentable 153,000 people have been checked since the epidemic struck. Initially, we did test every single suspected victim. That helped identify who had the virus, and all their contacts were traced. But the Government abandoned that strategy. If there is a shortage of testing kits, why are UK firms selling huge quantities to the Earth's four corners?
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 2, 2020 9:58:49 GMT 1
The key role of the press highlighted in the last few posts. They must keep probing, asking and shaming.
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Post by davycrockett on Apr 2, 2020 10:10:52 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on Apr 2, 2020 10:25:11 GMT 1
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8177785/Staggering-incompetence-public-health-fatcats.htmlIt was scandalous to discover yesterday that officials at Public Health England have repeatedly failed to take up multiple offers from some of the country's leading scientific organisations willing to help expand the testing programme. Many medical experts blame PHE's reluctance to accept help on a mixture of control freakery and incompetence among senior staff. For example, whereas other countries weeks ago the sensible decision to relax the rules on which laboratories can carry out coronavirus tests, in order to get as many as possible done, PHE chose to follow a tightly controlled approach. Initially, it therefore insisted that all testing in the UK was done at its own lab in north London. This contrasts vividly with the approach in Germany, where both private and publicly-owned laboratories have been testing relentlessly since the start of the crisis. And now we are into the blame game:- www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/apr/02/boris-johnson-restates-pledge-to-boost-uk-coronavirus-testing-capacityThe prime minister said more testing was “the way through” the crisis, as Whitehall sources described frustration within the government that Public Health England (PHE) had not placed enough emphasis on the issue in recent weeks. However, PHE rejected criticism that it had been trying to do all the testing itself and was too inflexible in which chemicals were allowed to be used, suggesting it was the responsibility of ministers to find private capacity for more tests. Prof Paul Cosford, the emeritus medical director of the public health body, said PHE’s role was to “make sure what our labs are doing what they need to do” in terms of testing hospital patients with a clinical need, with NHS staff a second priority. He told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme it was the Office for Life Sciences – part of the Department of Health and Social Care under Matt Hancock – that was working on private-sector capacity to test more widely, and this could boost capacity to “at least 100,000 tests a day, hopefully more”. The UK has been testing fewer than 10,000 people a day, lagging far behind other nations such as Germany, and the prime minister has had to address mounting anger about the situation. Ministers have consistently failed to explain fully why testing has not been not higher and are facing questions about why they are not planning to roll out mass testing for the virus beyond hospital patients and NHS workers.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Apr 2, 2020 10:29:58 GMT 1
It appears that we can all buy better protective gear on ebay than NHS staff are currently using: link
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 2, 2020 10:30:43 GMT 1
With regard to death rates throughout the world, how many of the deaths could have been prevented if enough medical facilities were available?
In China 18% of over 80's who contracted Coronarvirus died, but was that because they were not given a ventilator because there were not enough ventilators to go round? If a decision like that has to be made it is going to be the over 80's who miss out.
Slow the rate down to match the medical needs to the care available should have been our policy very much earlier than it was.
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 2, 2020 10:38:11 GMT 1
It appears that we can all buy better protective gear on ebay than NHS staff are currently using: link Definately this year's fashion trend!
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Post by northwestman on Apr 2, 2020 10:45:41 GMT 1
www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8177807/Germany-100-000-Britain-8-000.htmlThe disparity remains astonishing. Here are two nations of comparable size. Both have a long and proud history of medical excellence, both are home to international pharmaceutical giants and both are facing an identical biological threat. Yet their situations are so very different. And if there is one aspect of the coronavirus crisis that sets Britain and Germany apart more than any other, it is in the field of testing. Whereas Britain is struggling to carry out 50,000 tests in a week, Germany sometimes does twice as many in a day. To begin with, Britain's early system of targeted testing – of those who had returned from overseas hotspots and were showing symptoms – was working very well. Together with rigorous contact tracing, it does seem to have bought us some precious time. However, in early March, ministers a step-change decision to limit testing to those in hospital. Anyone else with symptoms was told to self-isolate at home. There is now a consensus among scientists, clinicians and politicians that this was a mistake. While Germany kept on testing as many people as it could, the picture in Britain started to become more confused. Beyond a question of specific policy, there seem to be three factors behind the chasm in the UK/German statistics. One is an issue of supply. Existing antigen tests depend on a number of chemical reagents which are now in great global demand. Germany simply produces more of them than we do. A second is one of structure. The UK has a centralised system with testing controlled by Public Health England, in addition to all the other issues it has on its plate. In Germany, its 16 states have their own healthcare systems. However, they all liaise closely with the federal health minister and the national body specifically set up to handle infectious diseases, the Robert Koch Institute. This duality seems to have allowed for greater flexibility and innovation. A third is one of philosophy. Germany has been prepared to spend 2pc more of GDP (and it is a higher GDP) on health than the UK. That has created greater capacity.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 2, 2020 10:53:18 GMT 1
With regard to death rates throughout the world, how many of the deaths could have been prevented if enough medical facilities were available? In China 18% of over 80's who contracted Coronarvirus died, but was that because they were not given a ventilator because there were not enough ventilators to go round? If a decision like that has to be made it is going to be the over 80's who miss out. Slow the rate down to match the medical needs to the care available should have been our policy very much earlier than it was. I wouldn't rely on a single statistic released by China.
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 2, 2020 10:55:12 GMT 1
"There is now a consensus among scientists, clinicians and politicians that this was a mistake. While Germany kept on testing as many people as it could, the picture in Britain started to become more confused!".
I venture to suggest that to the man on the street this appeared to be the wrong thing to do at the time, no hindsight required.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 2, 2020 10:56:17 GMT 1
www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8178335/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Testing-way-end-Prime-Minister-grip.htmlIt stretches credulity to relentlessly parrot, as ministers have, that Britain was one of the best-prepared countries to deal with the coronavirus. The evidence from the NHS front line is the opposite. The lack of protective equipment for heroic doctors and nurses battling the virus and the woeful shortage of life-saving ventilators for stricken patients are obvious examples. But undoubtedly the most glaring failure is the testing fiasco. So far, a lamentable 153,000 people have been checked since the epidemic struck. Initially, we did test every single suspected victim. That helped identify who had the virus, and all their contacts were traced. But the Government abandoned that strategy. If there is a shortage of testing kits, why are UK firms selling huge quantities to the Earth's four corners? the 2017 report clearly stated we where not and what would happen, the uk goverment ignored it. we are all living with there incompetence.
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 2, 2020 10:59:37 GMT 1
With regard to death rates throughout the world, how many of the deaths could have been prevented if enough medical facilities were available? In China 18% of over 80's who contracted Coronarvirus died, but was that because they were not given a ventilator because there were not enough ventilators to go round? If a decision like that has to be made it is going to be the over 80's who miss out. Slow the rate down to match the medical needs to the care available should have been our policy very much earlier than it was. I wouldn't rely on a single statistic released by China. But the point still remains, do more over 80's die because they get it so bad, or do they die because they get it so bad and there are not enough medical facilities to go round?
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Post by northwestman on Apr 2, 2020 11:15:43 GMT 1
'Following a week in self-isolation, the health secretary, Matt Hancock, returns to Westminster today and will unveil a new five-point plan for scaling up testing across the country, which the government calls its top priority. Hancock has recovered from a mild case of Covid-19 and will also front the daily news conference this afternoon.
His plan proposes to boost testing capacity by paying private firms to carry out swab testing, roll out antibody tests, conducting randomised sampling of the population and building up Britain’s long-term diagnostic capacity by working with pharmaceutical firms. However, the government’s ambition of testing 25,000 people a day may not be achieved until the end of this month, while antibody is still yet to begin because none of the nine different testing kits ordered have been approved for use yet'.
The Guardian.
He reminds me of the little Dutch boy putting his finger in the dam in order to buy time. The water on the other side of the dam being the intense press coverage severely criticizing the abject performance of the government on the issue of testing. The figure of 25,000 is unlikely to be achieved until the end of the month, whilst the antibody testing kits are still to be approved. Err, and what are the rest of us supposed to do in the meantime? A further 2/3 months in lockdown whilst the economy continues to crash and burn?
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Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 2, 2020 11:17:30 GMT 1
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Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 2, 2020 11:21:54 GMT 1
we have been following italy/ spains spike with the sad news that spain has recorded 10,000 deaths and the uk 2,3252, can the uk turn it around?
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Post by northwestman on Apr 2, 2020 11:23:55 GMT 1
I wouldn't rely on a single statistic released by China. But the point still remains, do more over 80's die because they get it so bad, or do they die because they get it so bad and there are not enough medical facilities to go round? John Lee, a recently retired professor of pathology and a former NHS consultant pathologist, writes in The Spectator that by making Covid-19 a notifiable disease, the authorities may have distorted the figures. ‘In the current climate, anyone with a positive test for Covid-19 will certainly be known to clinical staff looking after them: if any of these patients dies, staff will have to record the Covid-19 designation on the death certificate – contrary to usual practice for most infections of this kind. ‘There is a big difference between Covid-19 causing death, and Covid-19 being found in someone who died of other causes. Making Covid-19 notifiable might give the appearance of it causing increasing numbers of deaths, whether this is true or not. It might appear far more of a killer than flu, simply because of the way deaths are recorded.’ This, of course, explains why such an overwhelming number of Covid deaths, here and abroad, involve so-called ‘underlying conditions’, in fact serious, often fatal, diseases. Take this into account whenever you hear official figures of coronavirus deaths. Up to two thirds of people who die from coronavirus in the next nine months are likely to have died this year from other causes, a government advisor has said. Professor Neil Ferguson, who is recovering at home from Covid-19, told the Science and Technology Committee that experts were now expecting around 20,000 deaths, although said it may turn out to be a lot less. But he said that many of those deaths were likely to be old and seriously ill people who would have died from other conditions before the end of the year.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 2, 2020 11:29:01 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52121396"What's it been like? "It's been a bit unprecedented for us really. We've basically had to turn everything on its head. "We are now in a process of handling everything via the telephone and if patients need to come down to the surgery they will be triaged by a clinician in the first instance and then brought down. We've now introduced social distancing in the practice." "What happens when you get a coronavirus patient? "If they contact the practice and are triaged by a clinician, who deems that they have Covid19, they will be asked to attend the surgery, they will be provided with a telephone number. "When they arrive in the car park, they phone the number they are provided with and a clinician will then go out to greet the patient with PPE [personal protective equipment] on. Then they are brought through into a separate room. "What else has the cluster been able to achieve? "We've set up a Covid hub, so one particular practice is seeing all of the patients who we think might potentially have the virus. "The reason for doing that is that we want to try to keep those patients away from other patients - patients who may be really particularly vulnerable from catching Covid. "And by concentrating those patients in one area, we can ensure that we keep the other patients safe."
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Post by northwestman on Apr 2, 2020 12:55:00 GMT 1
There are two tests for coronavirus: one tests for antigens, which are produced by the body in response to a coronavirus infection and show if an individual has the virus; the other, an antibody test, shows whether an individual has been exposed to the virus, and has developed immunity to it. As far as health professionals are concerned, it is the antigen test which is vital, as it can establish whether the individual concerned can return to the front line if a negative result is shown. On the other hand, an antibody test can detect if a person has had the coronavirus before and has since recovered. The test, carried out by a device that pricks your finger for blood, works this out by testing your blood for coronavirus antibodies to see if they have already beaten the virus and gained some immunity to it. It can do this in about 15 minutes. Meanwhile, German researchers plan to introduce coronavirus ‘immunity certificates’ to facilitate a proper transition into post-lockdown life. The antibodies will indicate that the test participants have had the virus, have healed and are thereby ready to re-enter society and the workforce. The researchers plan to test 100,000 members of the public at a time, issuing documentation to those who have overcome the virus. The researchers will use the information to determine how to properly end the country’s lockdown, including re-opening schools and allowing mass gatherings. www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/immunity-passports-could-speed-up-return-to-work-after-covid-19 British health chiefs have said they could give out coronavirus 'immunity' certificates like Germany to allow millions of Britons out of isolation. These presumably will be issued to anyone who has established they have already had the virus. But Imperial College's guess is that presently there are at most only 3,000,000 of the population who have already had the virus. The population of the UK is nearly 68,000,000. So where does that leave the other 65 million of us if the antibody tests come up with such a result? Do we have to gaze longingly out of our windows whilst the 3 million or so released go out to work, the pubs and the Clubs whilst proudly clutching their certificates? The top projected figures for other Countries suggest that 15% of Spain and 9.8% of Italy may have immunity from the virus. So even if we doubled up on Spain's figures, that still leaves a hell of a lot of the rest of us not getting a certificate, even if an enormous number of the population subsequently contract the virus, which in itself would cause further problems to the NHS. Testing may give the government more statistics to work with, but it's how they react to those statistics that is the key issue. However many tests are conducted, the virus will still be out there until a vaccine is developed.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 2, 2020 13:04:55 GMT 1
Put another way, if they test every single member of the population and millions are shown never to have contracted the virus, what do they do next?
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Post by Pilch on Apr 2, 2020 14:38:22 GMT 1
It appears that we can all buy better protective gear on ebay than NHS staff are currently using: link seller based in liverpool probably works in the stores dept at his local hospital
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Post by Chief Inspector Swan on Apr 2, 2020 18:19:55 GMT 1
BOSH! And with that Matt Hancock comes out fighting and lands a neat uppercut on the false accusations littering the thread.
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Post by Red Rose In Exile on Apr 2, 2020 18:45:35 GMT 1
It appears that we can all buy better protective gear on ebay than NHS staff are currently using: link seller based in liverpool probably works in the stores dept at his local hospital Scroll down to the Business Seller Information: BAOGUI ZHANG BAOGUI ZHANG ROOM 1204 No. 6 street 7,fengtianyuan fenghuangcheng,yongning jiedao,zengcheng district 510000 Guangzhou City, 广东省 中國 Imported from China ....... remind me where this started again
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Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 2, 2020 19:48:43 GMT 1
the minister for health claims that by the end of the month we will doing a 100,000 tests a day. i would love to belive him and really hope its true. currently germany are doing 50,000 so in a month we will be doing double that.
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