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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 19:30:34 GMT 1
Forever Bury Statement 14/10/2019 We regret to inform the supporters of Bury Football Club that the interested party who has been working with Forever Bury on a proposed bid to buy the club has confirmed this is no longer a viable prospect for them. As matters have unfolded and the necessary due diligence has been undertaken, the complex, complicated and financially distressed situation at Bury Football Club has resulted in their decision to stand back from further discussions. Resulting from this news, Forever Bury will not now be putting forward a legal defence against the HMRC winding up petition on Wednesday 16th October 2019, as we believe there is no longer adequate evidence to suggest a meaningful case could be made. We will update you further as developments unfold. So, that should be that then! In practice, what does that mean? ie will the secured creditors get any of the monies owed?
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Post by Mortgagehound on Oct 14, 2019 20:13:21 GMT 1
It’s curtains
It makes me chuckle to read this when the local MP was claiming recently that there were lots of potential buyers lined up.
Nobody in their right mind would put a penny into this club
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Post by northwestman on Oct 15, 2019 9:59:55 GMT 1
Forever Bury Statement 14/10/2019 We regret to inform the supporters of Bury Football Club that the interested party who has been working with Forever Bury on a proposed bid to buy the club has confirmed this is no longer a viable prospect for them. As matters have unfolded and the necessary due diligence has been undertaken, the complex, complicated and financially distressed situation at Bury Football Club has resulted in their decision to stand back from further discussions. Resulting from this news, Forever Bury will not now be putting forward a legal defence against the HMRC winding up petition on Wednesday 16th October 2019, as we believe there is no longer adequate evidence to suggest a meaningful case could be made. We will update you further as developments unfold. So, that should be that then! In practice, what does that mean? ie will the secured creditors get any of the monies owed? There is a legal charge in favour of Capital Bridging Finance Solutions of £3,700,000 against the stadium and buildings at Gigg Lane, which have an estimated value of £5,449,400. However, there is a covenant in place that the land cannot be used for alternative use. There is a legal charge in favour of the Express Loan Company of £120,000 against the Lounge and Sports Bar, which has an estimated value of £94,000. On 12th March 2019, the Club granted Broadoak Private Finance Ltd a Fixed Charge. The current balance outstanding is £150,000 and is secured on future income from the EFL. Dale was supposed to be repaying this in full under the terms of the CVA. Football creditors are owed over £1,000,000, and so is HMRC. There is a deficit in the pension scheme of over £100,000, as no payments have been made into the scheme by the Club for a significant period of time. Unsecured creditors are owed well over £6,000,000. Season ticket holders who've paid by cash are classified as unsecured creditors unless they've paid by card, in which case they can claim against the credit card provider. Unsecured creditors include Dale himself, and Dale's daughter's boyfriend's Company RCR Holdings Ltd, which paid £70,000 to buy Bury's debt of £7,100,000 owed to their previous Chairman Day's Mederco Companies. www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/23/bury-company-debt-cva-steve-dale-daughterThe Intangible Assets of the Club, being the Club's trophies and memorabilia, have been transferred to Bury FC Heritage Ltd, a Company in which Dale is shareholder and director. The amount of £48,000 plus VAT was paid for these assets on 17th December 2018 in accordance with a valuation from Charles Taylor. All the furniture and computer equipment was transferred to Bury FC Leisure Ltd, another Dale Company, for £20,000 plus VAT on 17th December 2018. Dale had only bought the Club (for £1) and become a director on 7th December 2018, so he didn't waste much time moving the assets!
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 15, 2019 11:03:26 GMT 1
What a list that is, what a mess. Surely the crucial thing now for the fans is the ground isn't it? So how does that work? That would then belong to Capital Bridging Finance Solutions however, the location must be used for football? So the odds would be that they would come to come agreement with whatever club the fans can come up with?
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 15, 2019 11:27:47 GMT 1
A quick thought on what you can do with a field that has to be used for football, if you have the money to upgrade the facilities I suppose that you could " do a Walsall or MK" and host events, Bury having the city of Manchester travel arrangements.
Also struck me that small scale money might come in from having a solar farm on top of all the stands, do we have such a thing at the MWM?
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Post by northwestman on Oct 15, 2019 11:35:53 GMT 1
If the Bury fans want the team to play at Gigg Lane, they'll have to find the money to buy out both Capital Bridging Finance Solutions and Dale. Dale owns the ground subject to that charge, so whether he or the creditors of Bury FC would receive any surplus from a sale is a matter for the High Court I'd assume. Hopefully, it would be the latter.
It's a real mess, so totally unsurprising that no buyer has yet been found.
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 15, 2019 11:44:13 GMT 1
If the Bury fans want the team to play at Gigg Lane, they'll have to find the money to buy out both Capital Bridging Finance Solutions and Dale. Dale owns the ground subject to that charge, so whether he or the creditors of Bury FC would receive any surplus from a sale is a matter for the High Court I'd assume. Hopefully, it would be the latter. It's a real mess, so totally unsurprising that no buyer has yet been found. But if there's a covenent on Gigg Lane as being for football, then don't the owners have a problem that might be releived to somre extent by renting it out for a football club to play on? Maybe in conjunction with Rugby League to bring in a little bit more.
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Post by Mortgagehound on Oct 15, 2019 11:47:39 GMT 1
The people with the real problem is Capital Bridging Finance.
Realistically they are unable to repossess as it will be very difficult to sell due to the planning covenant on the land.
In my experience I cannot understand why they would lend on this deal
The council will remove the covenant if an alternative facility can be built, but there isn't really the equity in land value to undertake such a move. Gigg lane may have a value of £5.5 Million but nobody is going to pay that sum for it.
The answer may end up in the lap of the Council
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Oct 15, 2019 11:53:49 GMT 1
We seem to have very short memories regarding a covenant on the ground Gay Meadow anyone? There was a covenant on that but its now crammed full of houses.
There are always to get round that as we found out, we werent in anything like the situation Bury are but im sure it can be done if you find someone who knows someone and have deep enough pockets.
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Post by northwestman on Oct 15, 2019 11:55:27 GMT 1
If the Bury fans want the team to play at Gigg Lane, they'll have to find the money to buy out both Capital Bridging Finance Solutions and Dale. Dale owns the ground subject to that charge, so whether he or the creditors of Bury FC would receive any surplus from a sale is a matter for the High Court I'd assume. Hopefully, it would be the latter. It's a real mess, so totally unsurprising that no buyer has yet been found. But if there's a covenent on Gigg Lane as being for football, then don't the owners have a problem that might be releived to somre extent by renting it out for a football club to play on? Maybe in conjunction with Rugby League to bring in a little bit more. Well, for reasons best known to him, the Bury groundsman who hasn't been paid for months has still been keeping the Gigg Lane pitch in immaculate condition. 'In the distance, the groundsman, Mike Curtis, can be heard cutting the grass. It has been his livelihood for 33 years. On Saturdays, he still puts down the pitch markings. His mother, Joan, 83, still oversees the club lottery'. (Daily Telegraph, 27th Sept)
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Post by northwestman on Oct 15, 2019 12:03:40 GMT 1
The people with the real problem is Capital Bridging Finance. Realistically they are unable to repossess as it will be very difficult to sell due to the planning covenant on the land. In my experience I cannot understand why they would lend on this deal The council will remove the covenant if an alternative facility can be built, but there isn't really the equity in land value to undertake such a move. Gigg lane may have a value of £5.5 Million but nobody is going to pay that sum for it. The answer may end up in the lap of the Council Well, someone certainly benefited from the deal! 'The lender, a firm based in Crosby called Capital Bridging Finance Solutions (“Capital”), is now owed £3.7m. Capital in turn mortgaged Gigg Lane to a company based in Malta whose own lenders were eight companies registered in the tax haven of the British Virgin Islands. As revealed in the Guardian, large portions of the borrowed money never came to Bury at all, because 40% was paid as “introduction fees” to unnamed third parties'. Bury still owe in full the initial £1.6m borrowed in October 2017, and must continue to pay interest on it, but £640,000 did not go to the club; Capital paid it out as an introduction fee. A subsequent loan in February 2018, for £722,800, is understood also to have involved a 40% fee paid to a third party – £289,120. www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jun/18/bury-inside-story-financial-ruin-winding-up-petition-loans-car-parkDale says the loans on Gigg Lane now total £3.7m, accruing interest at almost £1,500 per day.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 12:47:34 GMT 1
In practice, what does that mean? ie will the secured creditors get any of the monies owed? There is a legal charge in favour of Capital Bridging Finance Solutions of £3,700,000 against the stadium and buildings at Gigg Lane, which have an estimated value of £5,449,400. However, there is a covenant in place that the land cannot be used for alternative use. There is a legal charge in favour of the Express Loan Company of £120,000 against the Lounge and Sports Bar, which has an estimated value of £94,000. On 12th March 2019, the Club granted Broadoak Private Finance Ltd a Fixed Charge. The current balance outstanding is £150,000 and is secured on future income from the EFL. Dale was supposed to be repaying this in full under the terms of the CVA. Football creditors are owed over £1,000,000, and so is HMRC. There is a deficit in the pension scheme of over £100,000, as no payments have been made into the scheme by the Club for a significant period of time. Unsecured creditors are owed well over £6,000,000. Season ticket holders who've paid by cash are classified as unsecured creditors unless they've paid by card, in which case they can claim against the credit card provider. Unsecured creditors include Dale himself, and Dale's daughter's boyfriend's Company RCR Holdings Ltd, which paid £70,000 to buy Bury's debt of £7,100,000 owed to their previous Chairman Day's Mederco Companies. www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/23/bury-company-debt-cva-steve-dale-daughterThe Intangible Assets of the Club, being the Club's trophies and memorabilia, have been transferred to Bury FC Heritage Ltd, a Company in which Dale is shareholder and director. The amount of £48,000 plus VAT was paid for these assets on 17th December 2018 in accordance with a valuation from Charles Taylor. All the furniture and computer equipment was transferred to Bury FC Leisure Ltd, another Dale Company, for £20,000 plus VAT on 17th December 2018. Dale had only bought the Club (for £1) and become a director on 7th December 2018, so he didn't waste much time moving the assets! Thanks for that. What a mess
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 15, 2019 13:04:24 GMT 1
We seem to have very short memories regarding a covenant on the ground Gay Meadow anyone? There was a covenant on that but its now crammed full of houses. There are always to get round that as we found out, we werent in anything like the situation Bury are but im sure it can be done if you find someone who knows someone and have deep enough pockets. That's where the local council come in, if someone gaurantees a new location in the town then the covenent on the old ground can go. One things for sure, Bury FC (Phoenix) or whatever they call themselves in future, need to keep well away from the old debts and let whoever ended up with the paperwork take a spanking.
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Post by Mortgagehound on Oct 15, 2019 13:30:09 GMT 1
We seem to have very short memories regarding a covenant on the ground Gay Meadow anyone? There was a covenant on that but its now crammed full of houses. There are always to get round that as we found out, we werent in anything like the situation Bury are but im sure it can be done if you find someone who knows someone and have deep enough pockets. That's where the local council come in, if someone gaurantees a new location in the town then the covenent on the old ground can go. One things for sure, Bury FC (Phoenix) or whatever they call themselves in future, need to keep well away from the old debts and let whoever ended up with the paperwork take a spanking. Did someone say spanking............
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Post by highlandshrew on Oct 15, 2019 13:38:20 GMT 1
In practice, what does that mean? ie will the secured creditors get any of the monies owed? There is a legal charge in favour of Capital Bridging Finance Solutions of £3,700,000 against the stadium and buildings at Gigg Lane, which have an estimated value of £5,449,400. However, there is a covenant in place that the land cannot be used for alternative use. There is a legal charge in favour of the Express Loan Company of £120,000 against the Lounge and Sports Bar, which has an estimated value of £94,000. On 12th March 2019, the Club granted Broadoak Private Finance Ltd a Fixed Charge. The current balance outstanding is £150,000 and is secured on future income from the EFL. Dale was supposed to be repaying this in full under the terms of the CVA. Football creditors are owed over £1,000,000, and so is HMRC. There is a deficit in the pension scheme of over £100,000, as no payments have been made into the scheme by the Club for a significant period of time. Unsecured creditors are owed well over £6,000,000. Season ticket holders who've paid by cash are classified as unsecured creditors unless they've paid by card, in which case they can claim against the credit card provider. Unsecured creditors include Dale himself, and Dale's daughter's boyfriend's Company RCR Holdings Ltd, which paid £70,000 to buy Bury's debt of £7,100,000 owed to their previous Chairman Day's Mederco Companies. www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/23/bury-company-debt-cva-steve-dale-daughterThe Intangible Assets of the Club, being the Club's trophies and memorabilia, have been transferred to Bury FC Heritage Ltd, a Company in which Dale is shareholder and director. The amount of £48,000 plus VAT was paid for these assets on 17th December 2018 in accordance with a valuation from Charles Taylor. All the furniture and computer equipment was transferred to Bury FC Leisure Ltd, another Dale Company, for £20,000 plus VAT on 17th December 2018. Dale had only bought the Club (for £1) and become a director on 7th December 2018, so he didn't waste much time moving the assets! Do you know what has happened to the 250+ car parking spaces which were sold off at £10k each? Do the buyers still own these and if so how will that affect Gigg Lane operationally as regards football matches and available parking (assuming they ever reform and can reach some form of agreement with Capital Bridge Finance)?
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 15, 2019 13:44:14 GMT 1
That's where the local council come in, if someone gaurantees a new location in the town then the covenent on the old ground can go. One things for sure, Bury FC (Phoenix) or whatever they call themselves in future, need to keep well away from the old debts and let whoever ended up with the paperwork take a spanking. Did someone say spanking............
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Post by northwestman on Oct 15, 2019 15:05:25 GMT 1
Do you know what has happened to the 250+ car parking spaces which were sold off at £10k each? Do the buyers still own these and if so how will that affect Gigg Lane operationally as regards football matches and available parking (assuming they ever reform and can reach some form of agreement with Capital Bridge Finance)? Bury FC has been expelled from the English Football League, after failing to meet a deadline requiring it to secure new funds or ownership. So it’s a good time to home in on what happened to its car park over the past few years. Stewart Day, the former chairman and property developer, over the club in 2013. By 2015, his now-failed property company, Mederco Limited, had taken on a lease on the club’s car park. It was initially for 209 spaces, though 49 were added later that year. In 2017, according to Companies House filings, it paid £50,000 rent to the club. But the spaces were sold on to investors for £9,995 each. Here’s the write up about it in the Bury Times as early as 2014. You can still register interest here, for a 9 per cent “NETrental return”. As you might have guessed, this didn’t go well for those who bought in. Mederco is now in administration, and people who bought the car park spaces should be getting £232,000 a year, of which £190,000 is in arrears. What about the underlying collateral - the spaces themselves? Well, here’s the administrator’s report: The parking spaces themselves generate no income, and the Company must have therefore utilised other income streams to pay the sub under-lease rents. This particular scheme is another example of fractional investing, where a property asset is carved up and sold on to retail investors. These are not regulated by the FCA, and tend to be aggressively marketed, often on social media. They’ve also been cropping up all over the place, at a time of low interest rates and new freedoms for pensioners to invest their pension pots. It’s reminiscent of high-risk student accommodation developments we’ve recently been writing about, where investors are promised a fixed income on rooms. Penningtons, a law firm in London that represents investors in such schemes, has pointed out similar examples of student accommodation schemes where investors have lost out in Bradford and Leicester. Financial Times. bondreview.co.uk/2019/04/18/investment-schemes-run-by-former-bury-fc-chairman-collapse-administrator-predicts-total-losses-for-investors/Lendy Ltd have also gone into administration. British property finance company Lendy has collapsed in the largest failure to date in Europe’s peer-to-peer lending sector, amid an investigation by financial regulators. The Financial Times first reported concerns about rising default levels at the company — which allowed retail investors to lend to property developers — last autumn, and it was placed on an FCA watchlist at the start of this year, less than 12 months after it received an FCA licence. The regulator had raised questions about its ability to meet the minimum standards required of regulated firms, but tried to work with the company and its creditors to avoid a collapse. Their failure raises the prospect of tens of millions of pounds of losses for retail investors. Lendy has more than £160m in outstanding loans, of which more than £90m is in default. Several million pounds of loans more are behind on repayments, but not yet classed as non-performing. Peer to peer lending was encouraged in the wake of the financial crisis as a way to fill the gaps left by banks that cut lending to certain sectors, while providing an alternative source of income for savers hit by low interest rates.
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Post by highlandshrew on Oct 15, 2019 16:28:30 GMT 1
Do you know what has happened to the 250+ car parking spaces which were sold off at £10k each? Do the buyers still own these and if so how will that affect Gigg Lane operationally as regards football matches and available parking (assuming they ever reform and can reach some form of agreement with Capital Bridge Finance)? Bury FC has been expelled from the English Football League, after failing to meet a deadline requiring it to secure new funds or ownership. So it’s a good time to home in on what happened to its car park over the past few years. Stewart Day, the former chairman and property developer, over the club in 2013. By 2015, his now-failed property company, Mederco Limited, had taken on a lease on the club’s car park. It was initially for 209 spaces, though 49 were added later that year. In 2017, according to Companies House filings, it paid £50,000 rent to the club. But the spaces were sold on to investors for £9,995 each. Here’s the write up about it in the Bury Times as early as 2014. You can still register interest here, for a 9 per cent “NETrental return”. As you might have guessed, this didn’t go well for those who bought in. Mederco is now in administration, and people who bought the car park spaces should be getting £232,000 a year, of which £190,000 is in arrears. What about the underlying collateral - the spaces themselves? Well, here’s the administrator’s report: The parking spaces themselves generate no income, and the Company must have therefore utilised other income streams to pay the sub under-lease rents. This particular scheme is another example of fractional investing, where a property asset is carved up and sold on to retail investors. These are not regulated by the FCA, and tend to be aggressively marketed, often on social media. They’ve also been cropping up all over the place, at a time of low interest rates and new freedoms for pensioners to invest their pension pots. It’s reminiscent of high-risk student accommodation developments we’ve recently been writing about, where investors are promised a fixed income on rooms. Penningtons, a law firm in London that represents investors in such schemes, has pointed out similar examples of student accommodation schemes where investors have lost out in Bradford and Leicester. Financial Times. bondreview.co.uk/2019/04/18/investment-schemes-run-by-former-bury-fc-chairman-collapse-administrator-predicts-total-losses-for-investors/Lendy Ltd have also gone into administration. British property finance company Lendy has collapsed in the largest failure to date in Europe’s peer-to-peer lending sector, amid an investigation by financial regulators. The Financial Times first reported concerns about rising default levels at the company — which allowed retail investors to lend to property developers — last autumn, and it was placed on an FCA watchlist at the start of this year, less than 12 months after it received an FCA licence. The regulator had raised questions about its ability to meet the minimum standards required of regulated firms, but tried to work with the company and its creditors to avoid a collapse. Their failure raises the prospect of tens of millions of pounds of losses for retail investors. Lendy has more than £160m in outstanding loans, of which more than £90m is in default. Several million pounds of loans more are behind on repayments, but not yet classed as non-performing. Peer to peer lending was encouraged in the wake of the financial crisis as a way to fill the gaps left by banks that cut lending to certain sectors, while providing an alternative source of income for savers hit by low interest rates. So, Mederco leased the spaces from Bury FC for £50k pa but only made one payment and are now in administration, Bury FC are about to be liquidated tomorrow and the small investors expecting 9% return on their £10k have received SFA. I wonder who will end up owning the car park spaces?
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Post by northwestman on Oct 16, 2019 9:32:54 GMT 1
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Post by Mortgagehound on Oct 16, 2019 10:25:03 GMT 1
Is the Bury HMRC court hearing today?
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Oct 16, 2019 10:25:52 GMT 1
Yes from 11am...
Southend and Ebsfleet also there today!
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Post by Minormorris64 on Oct 16, 2019 11:35:57 GMT 1
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Post by tvor on Oct 16, 2019 19:12:11 GMT 1
Some lucky club will get a bye into FA Cup round 2 as a result of what has happened with Bury and pocket the £36,000 prize money in the process. The final club left in the pot at the end of the draw will receive the bye. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50076272
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Post by northwestman on Oct 16, 2019 20:00:09 GMT 1
If HMRC are in fact owed nothing since the CVA was set up, then the WUP will be dismissed in 14 days time.
The CVA kicks in about December/January. When that's not paid, Bury will again be before the High Court.
Dale is keeping the Club afloat, and the Bury fans are getting increasingly concerned as to what are his reasons for doing so.
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 16, 2019 22:11:07 GMT 1
If HMRC are in fact owed nothing since the CVA was set up, then the WUP will be dismissed in 14 days time. The CVA kicks in about December/January. When that's not paid, Bury will again be before the High Court. Dale is keeping the Club afloat, and the Bury fans are getting increasingly concerned as to what are his reasons for doing so. Do the DUP fit into this somewhere? HMRC likes to ensure it gets it's money somehow so that no precedents are set up for future evasion, so expect some fight from them.
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Post by northwestman on Oct 17, 2019 10:22:49 GMT 1
Latest throw of the dice by the Bury fans -
'There has been much talk on this board over the past few days about setting up a new fan group and asking for communication from Forever Bury with all the associated discussion which has gone with it. Unfortunately there is too little time for discussion, we have until May 15th to save our club.
I see two options:
1. Wait for a white knight to come to our rescue, pump millions into the club and, make us a Championship side within 5 years.
We have tried that model and it hasn’t worked out too well. In fact, it has put us in the mess we are in now.
2. Become a fan owned club with support from Forever Bury and Supporters Direct and make Bury FC run on a sustainable basis to ensure ongoing survival.
This is the model we need.
I know many want to see concrete developments to secure the future of our club and this is your opportunity to make things happen.
I am starting a campaign to raise an initial £3 Million to pay our immediate debts and to see us through the summer.
But… I do not want anyone to pay any money now.
I want 3000 people to PLEDGE £1000 each to see how close we can come to the target.
If there are not 3000, we need others to pledge an amount, any amount, which will take us forward. The aim is to have an agreement to buy the club, subject to raising the monies needed and, to go to the High Court to ask for an adjournment whilst we complete the task ahead of us.
We will not be able to raise the pledges from this board alone, so I trust that there are many people able to help spread the message through other channels, social media, friends, businesses, in fact anyone or thing you can think of and, in addition, to co-ordinate the amount of pledges given. All this needs to happen in days, not weeks.
Amounts up to £1000 will be treated as donations. Larger amounts can be donated, or lent interest free, or lent paying an interest rate similar to major banks current offering. We must never be in the realms of 138% interest per annum again. Finer details have yet to be worked out and I welcome all and any suggestions which will ensure our safety.
Providing we come close to our target, the aim is to establish, with the help of Supporters Direct and Forever Bury, a sustainable fan owned club, living within its means.
Once we have control of the club, we will look to becoming a community club, with volunteers and professionals working together to ensure we are never in this situation again.
If there are professionals such as accountants, solicitors and fundraisers and are willing to work on this campaign pro bono, please message me asap.
If you are happy to pledge on this board and to the public, please do so.
If you wish your pledge to remain private, please message me and I will total the pledges made as one sum and update every 2 days.
Remember, we are not collecting money yet, just a pledge that you will donate when the time comes.
Please help Buy Our Bury'.
BOB
There does seem to have been some initial response to this!
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Post by northwestman on Oct 17, 2019 11:01:38 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on Oct 17, 2019 11:56:33 GMT 1
Rumour is now going round the Bury Board that Dale is thinking of relocating to Australia!
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Post by Exkeeper on Oct 17, 2019 18:46:01 GMT 1
Rumour is now going round the Bury Board that Dale is thinking of relocating to Australia! Well, that’s where all the convicts were sent to, many years ago.
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Post by tvor on Oct 18, 2019 21:51:40 GMT 1
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