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Post by davycrockett on Apr 11, 2019 11:11:40 GMT 1
The brexit fightback starts now! Farage is launching The Brexit Party tomorrow. This appears to be a mainstream party with no association to the far right that ukip has. The European elections will serve as a reminder to the political establishment. Theresa May could well be forced to stand down in the next week leading to a new PM who will be more supportive of the referendum result. Meanwhile mps will continue to flounce around parliament and not come to any majority over anything. How can it have no association to the far right with Fargage launching it?
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Post by salop27 on Apr 11, 2019 11:19:59 GMT 1
We can debate all day who we think is left wing, right wing etc. I see Farage, currently, as being centre right. Which suits me fine. In my eyes if he moves to far right I wouldn't consider voting for The Brexit Party.
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Post by frankwellshrews on Apr 11, 2019 11:30:17 GMT 1
Can't believe I'd missed this but just came across it on James O'Brien. Damn it, Charlie, David Davis had a family.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 11:33:54 GMT 1
We can debate all day who we think is left wing, right wing etc. I see Farage, currently, as being centre right. Which suits me fine. In my eyes if he moves to far right I wouldn't consider voting for The Brexit Party. I’m absolutely certain the brexit party will attract some lovely, wholesome folk, real salt of the earth types, people with real heartfelt conviction and warmth, honesty and virtue.
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Post by martinshrew on Apr 11, 2019 11:37:12 GMT 1
We can debate all day who we think is left wing, right wing etc. I see Farage, currently, as being centre right. Which suits me fine. In my eyes if he moves to far right I wouldn't consider voting for The Brexit Party. I’m absolutely certain the brexit party will attract some lovely, wholesome folk, real salt of the earth types, people with real heartfelt conviction and warmth, honesty and virtue. Much like the far left Labour under Corbyn will attract those wonderful types. Lets face it, a party cannot control who assosiates to it. I'm sure no party would want paedos, murderers etc for example assosiating to them but they'll allign themselves to one party or another.
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Post by shrewsace on Apr 11, 2019 11:42:02 GMT 1
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Post by shrewsace on Apr 11, 2019 11:58:43 GMT 1
Aside from the ERG part - I completely agree. You can see this whole thing just shifting to after the summer when it will be the same mess but with sun tanned MPs. I think that she should pass this back to the people with two simple questions: 1) a) Leave or b) Remain2) If we leave a) No deal or b) the negotiated deal that is on the table. If she proposed this way forward it would sail through the House of Commons. I always thought that the Swiss were sensible people. We need to just ask question 2 though, as we asked question 1 in 2016?
In case you missed it, the result favoured option a) 52/48, 17.4m voted to leave, more people voting for something than ever before in this country. In light of what has transpired over those last two-and-a-half years, of course it's worth asking the question again. Many of those 17.4m may have believed the leave promises of striking the 'easiest trade deal in history', that the EU would come crawling as 'they need us more than we need them'. As one-time leading Brexiteer Peter Oborne recently admitted here they were misled. We can now go to the country and say 'You wanted to leave - this is the deal that your Prime Minister, leader of the elected government of your sovereign state has been able to strike with the EU. " do you want this deal, yes or no?" "If no, do you want to leave the EU under a 'no deal' or would you rather stay in the EU". There may be some leavers who think that May's deal still keeps us too closely tied to the EU but without the influence we have previously been able to yield. They may think that, in that case, we might as well remain as full members of the EU. Some may think that they would rather go down the no deal route. Others may have totally changed their minds as they've witnessed the turmoil unfold before them since 2016 and now back remain. So why not ask the question again, and find out exactly where the nation stands now? Don't assume that the other 17.4m who voted to leave think exactly as you do.
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Post by Minormorris64 on Apr 11, 2019 12:10:04 GMT 1
Its something that has been amusing me for a while now, that loads of Remainers appear to have mind reading skills when it comes to Leave voters, as with any Election the only thing that matters is where their cross goes in the Ballot Booth on that little piece of paper, not what they may say to someone in conversation to please the questioner, but just mind yourself in that Booth it might be full of Russians
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 12:43:02 GMT 1
I’m absolutely certain the brexit party will attract some lovely, wholesome folk, real salt of the earth types, people with real heartfelt conviction and warmth, honesty and virtue. Much like the far left Labour under Corbyn will attract those wonderful types. Lets face it, a party cannot control who assosiates to it. I'm sure no party would want paedos, murderers etc for example assosiating to them but they'll allign themselves to one party or another. This is true, though of course this view carries little weight when the media are stirring up absolute hysteria about antisemitism in the Labour Party.
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Post by martinshrew on Apr 11, 2019 12:56:46 GMT 1
Much like the far left Labour under Corbyn will attract those wonderful types. Lets face it, a party cannot control who assosiates to it. I'm sure no party would want paedos, murderers etc for example assosiating to them but they'll allign themselves to one party or another. This is true, though of course this view carries little weight when the media are stirring up absolute hysteria about antisemitism in the Labour Party. Come on, it's a bit more than hysteria. Numerous MPs leaving, 100s of complaints of anti-Semitism not looked into ...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 14:04:14 GMT 1
This is true, though of course this view carries little weight when the media are stirring up absolute hysteria about antisemitism in the Labour Party. Come on, it's a bit more than hysteria. Numerous MPs leaving, 100s of complaints of anti-Semitism not looked into ... There are a lot of vested interests is my honest opinion. A lot of people who believe that opposition to Israeli foreign policy towards the Palestinians is the same as antisemitism. People who think that antizionism is the same as antisemitism. But anyway, as you’re there. I asked a few days ago if you could give some examples of Jeremy Corbyns antisemitism. You didn’t answer. Have you come up with anything yet? 👍
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Post by shrewsace on Apr 11, 2019 14:44:50 GMT 1
This is true, though of course this view carries little weight when the media are stirring up absolute hysteria about antisemitism in the Labour Party. Come on, it's a bit more than hysteria. Numerous MPs leaving, 100s of complaints of anti-Semitism not looked into ... Funny how so many people developed an overriding concern over anti-semitism just at the time it emerged as a convenient stick to beat Corbyn with. Total coincidence I'm sure.
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Post by salop27 on Apr 11, 2019 15:10:10 GMT 1
Come on, it's a bit more than hysteria. Numerous MPs leaving, 100s of complaints of anti-Semitism not looked into ... Funny how so many people developed an overriding concern over anti-semitism just at the time it emerged as a convenient stick to beat Corbyn with. Total coincidence I'm sure. Does not matter when or how it emerged. Its a good thing its been bought into the open as racism in any form is unacceptable in society.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 15:30:51 GMT 1
Funny how so many people developed an overriding concern over anti-semitism just at the time it emerged as a convenient stick to beat Corbyn with. Total coincidence I'm sure. Does not matter when or how it emerged. Its a good thing its been bought into the open as racism in any form is unacceptable in society. That’s almost a direct quote from one of Jeremy Corbyns speeches, except his version sounds more sincere.
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Post by shrewsace on Apr 11, 2019 15:54:33 GMT 1
Funny how so many people developed an overriding concern over anti-semitism just at the time it emerged as a convenient stick to beat Corbyn with. Total coincidence I'm sure. Does not matter when or how it emerged. Its a good thing its been bought into the open as racism in any form is unacceptable in society. The problem of anti-semitism hasn't just emerged, clearly, it's centuries old and predominantly connected to the right. My point is that the 'concern' of many Tories and even Labour 'moderates' only extends as far as its usefulness as a political attack line. In other words its disingenuous, cynical and opportunistic. If people are only now wringing their hands when the issue has always been there, particularly among the far right, then that says it all. Corbyn was arrested in the 80s for opposing racism at the time Thatcher and the Tories were defending apartheid and branding Mandela a terrorist. And yet now they have the brass neck to point the finger and claim the moral high ground! Sickening.
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Post by salop27 on Apr 11, 2019 16:14:49 GMT 1
Does not matter when or how it emerged. Its a good thing its been bought into the open as racism in any form is unacceptable in society. That’s almost a direct quote from one of Jeremy Corbyns speeches, except his version sounds more sincere. I think my version sounds more sincere as I can safely say I've never shared stages with anti semitic organisations or individuals or accidentally been involved in wreath laying ceremonies commemorating terrorists or have ever belonged to private Facebook groups featuring racist abuse.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 18:10:47 GMT 1
I'm sure there are genuine Anti-Semites in the Labour Party.
I'm also sure there are genuine Islamophobes in the Tory Party.
But, which one do we hear all about...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 18:24:03 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 19:12:43 GMT 1
That’s almost a direct quote from one of Jeremy Corbyns speeches, except his version sounds more sincere. I think my version sounds more sincere as I can safely say I've never shared stages with anti semitic organisations or individuals or accidentally been involved in wreath laying ceremonies commemorating terrorists or have ever belonged to private Facebook groups featuring racist abuse. That doesn’t make you sincere, it makes you self righteous!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 20:01:24 GMT 1
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 12, 2019 8:12:05 GMT 1
That’s almost a direct quote from one of Jeremy Corbyns speeches, except his version sounds more sincere. I think my version sounds more sincere as I can safely say I've never shared stages with anti semitic organisations or individuals or accidentally been involved in wreath laying ceremonies commemorating terrorists or have ever belonged to private Facebook groups featuring racist abuse. Great post. For all the talk of this being in the media its good to post a reminder or two, seems this sort of thing can to be quickly and easily forgotten...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 8:34:10 GMT 1
We need to just ask question 2 though, as we asked question 1 in 2016?
In case you missed it, the result favoured option a) 52/48, 17.4m voted to leave, more people voting for something than ever before in this country. In light of what has transpired over those last two-and-a-half years, of course it's worth asking the question again. Many of those 17.4m may have believed the leave promises of striking the 'easiest trade deal in history', that the EU would come crawling as 'they need us more than we need them'. As one-time leading Brexiteer Peter Oborne recently admitted here they were misled. We can now go to the country and say 'You wanted to leave - this is the deal that your Prime Minister, leader of the elected government of your sovereign state has been able to strike with the EU. " do you want this deal, yes or no?" "If no, do you want to leave the EU under a 'no deal' or would you rather stay in the EU". There may be some leavers who think that May's deal still keeps us too closely tied to the EU but without the influence we have previously been able to yield. They may think that, in that case, we might as well remain as full members of the EU. Some may think that they would rather go down the no deal route. Others may have totally changed their minds as they've witnessed the turmoil unfold before them since 2016 and now back remain. So why not ask the question again, and find out exactly where the nation stands now? Don't assume that the other 17.4m who voted to leave think exactly as you do. I actually agree with this... under the caveat the the first question should be a binary Remain or Leave. there should be a secondary question, but only for those that elect to leave, and that question should be to accept the negotiated deal (which is virtually a remain answer) or to leave under WTO terms and negotiate again for a deal... which we would get and on far better terms than under a WA (my opinion) There is no way remainers should get a 3rd chance to keep us in.... Oh and is the boot on the other foot when all the remainers state that many who voted leave in the first instance... just another assumption....
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Post by neilsalop on Apr 12, 2019 9:16:58 GMT 1
We've gone from 'getting a deal will be easy' and 'no deal is better than a bad deal', to no-deal being off the table completely and Daily Mail readers calling the Queen a traitor.
You really couldn't make this s**t up.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 10:21:59 GMT 1
Great post. For all the talk of this being in the media its good to post a reminder or two, seems this sort of thing can to be quickly and easily forgotten... Oh stop it 😂 Seriously, it’s a great diversion from people living in poverty, having to rely on food banks to survive, the crumbling (literally) nhs, spiralling knife crime and disorder on our streets, the governments all mighty **** up of brexit, our crumbling infrastructure, disintegration of local government.......... but yes, we need a reminder of jeremy corbyns past. Keep em coming stutty, despite you and the B&A right wings best efforts I think most people can see right through your silliness! 👍
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 12, 2019 10:40:14 GMT 1
Great post. For all the talk of this being in the media its good to post a reminder or two, seems this sort of thing can to be quickly and easily forgotten... Oh stop it 😂 Seriously, it’s a great diversion from people living in poverty, having to rely on food banks to survive, the crumbling (literally) nhs, spiralling knife crime and disorder on our streets, the governments all mighty **** up of brexit, our crumbling infrastructure, disintegration of local government.......... but yes, we need a reminder of jeremy corbyns past. Keep em coming stutty, despite you and the B&A right wings best efforts I think most people can see right through your silliness! 👍 You call calling that out as silliness? Wow. Not really sure what to say to be honest. I guess not too important to you but to many others (myself included) if does matter an awful lot, this is the man who wants to be the nest PM of the UK. You might be able to dismiss such things as a distraction but I and many others see it very differently. That you can simple dismiss such things as nothing more than a diversion... We see things very differently on this matey...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 11:08:42 GMT 1
Oh stop it 😂 Seriously, it’s a great diversion from people living in poverty, having to rely on food banks to survive, the crumbling (literally) nhs, spiralling knife crime and disorder on our streets, the governments all mighty **** up of brexit, our crumbling infrastructure, disintegration of local government.......... but yes, we need a reminder of jeremy corbyns past. Keep em coming stutty, despite you and the B&A right wings best efforts I think most people can see right through your silliness! 👍 You call calling that out as silliness? Wow. Not really sure what to say to be honest. I guess not too important to you but to many others (myself included) if does matter an awful lot, this is the man who wants to be the nest PM of the UK. You might be able to dismiss such things as a distraction but I and many others see it very differently. That you can simple dismiss such things as nothing more than a diversion... We see things very differently on this matey... Well yes of course we do. I’m more interested in what he will do to solve the nations problems, hunger (yes hunger, in Britain, in 2019) criminality, despair etc, whilst you’re more focused on what he was doing 30 years ago in a bid to just discredit him. As Martin won’t (can’t) answer the question regarding the accusations he made, why don’t you have a shot? What has he said or done that is antisemitic?
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Post by shropshirelad42 on Apr 12, 2019 11:20:10 GMT 1
Great post. For all the talk of this being in the media its good to post a reminder or two, seems this sort of thing can to be quickly and easily forgotten... Oh stop it 😂 Seriously, it’s a great diversion from people living in poverty, having to rely on food banks to survive, the crumbling (literally) nhs, spiralling knife crime and disorder on our streets, the governments all mighty **** up of brexit, our crumbling infrastructure, disintegration of local government.......... but yes, we need a reminder of jeremy corbyns past. Keep em coming stutty, despite you and the B&A right wings best efforts I think most people can see right through your silliness! 👍 I am now becoming infuriated (at the moment mildly so) about a couple of posters who keep on about one or two things, so I felt compelled to post the following..... I have travelled all over this beautiful planet. Lived in India & Africa for short spells, and China for a long time. We in the so called Western countries should count ourselves extremely fortunate that we have the standards of living we do have. So please stop saying that there is 'POVERTY' in this country. If you want to see 'REAL' poverty visit the large cities - and some outlying areas - of the above mentioned countries. It made me weep to see it, especially the little kids. As for crime.... try living in Jo'burg and Durban and walking down a street at night -yes, a main street- and you may very well regret it. And where we were it was always advisable to take a taxi to and from the bank -especially touristy areas- as there was always a chance of being mugged if visiting cash machines. Finally the NHS..... I agree, it does need a big injection of cash, but the people who work in it don't want to hear day after day that it is crumbling. They are really fantastic people and doing a 'MAGNIFICENT' job under the circumstances. The people of the above countries would think they were in heaven if they were looked after, medically, as we in the UK are. I could go on but I won't as my comments may turn into a book. So, no matter what becomes of this awful Brexit mess we are in, count yourselves very lucky to be living in these wonderful countries of ours which make up the UK. Sorry about the wee rant, but I had to get it off my chest. Maybe I should have opened it up on another thread, but the comments were made on this one. So there you have it. Have a great day folks. Yes,we have lots of people who have fallen on hard times and need help, but it is not third world poverty.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 12, 2019 11:29:59 GMT 1
You call calling that out as silliness? Wow. Not really sure what to say to be honest. I guess not too important to you but to many others (myself included) if does matter an awful lot, this is the man who wants to be the nest PM of the UK. You might be able to dismiss such things as a distraction but I and many others see it very differently. That you can simple dismiss such things as nothing more than a diversion... We see things very differently on this matey... Well yes of course we do. I’m more interested in what he will do to solve the nations problems, hunger (yes hunger, in Britain, in 2019) criminality, despair etc, whilst you’re more focused on what he was doing 30 years ago in a bid to just discredit him. 30 years ago? But it isn't 30 years ago though is it. And we are all interested in the state of the nation and the concerns you list but that doesn't mean that we then turn a blind eye to someone that we do not deem fit to be Prime Minister. The things that were mentioned in the post I replied to matter in that regard (to me anyhows, to others too clearly). And in addition, in order for those things you mention to be addressed we need people in place who we deem competent to do so. I wouldn't trust Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott to run a bath. I'm not sure what martin mentioned but what do you contest from the post from salop27 that I replied to? I think my version sounds more sincere as I can safely say I've never shared stages with anti semitic organisations or individuals or accidentally been involved in wreath laying ceremonies commemorating terrorists or have ever belonged to private Facebook groups featuring racist abuse.
What is incorrect from what is stated in that post? Because as I understand it, all the things that are listed there can be leveled at Corbyn. How do you understand it, what have we missed?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 11:30:33 GMT 1
'who work in it don't want to hear day after day that it is crumbling'
Lmao.
You realise what the person you have quoted does for a living?
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Post by shropshirelad42 on Apr 12, 2019 11:48:26 GMT 1
In all of my posts, whatever the subject, I try to just say it as I see it without being vindictive, rude or upsetting anyone. Unlike some other posters !!!!!!!!
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