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Post by martinshrew on Jan 30, 2019 15:35:13 GMT 1
You're the one in a dream world. Wipe your tears, we're leaving the EU. Tears of laughter at people like you. 17 million people, 52% of the voting public, a majority. Dress it up however you want but your attitude towards leave voters is a huge part of what's causing division in this country. I respect anybody who voted remain and their reasons why.
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Post by salop27 on Jan 30, 2019 16:23:44 GMT 1
So parliament doesn't want a no deal but doesn't think MPs should be allowed to stop it from happening? They also don't want May's deal yet somehow also don't think they need more time to resolve the matter by extending A50. "Omnishambles" springs to mind. There is no popular mandate for no deal. People were misled that a vote to leave wouldn't mean a vote to leave customs union and free trade area. Close to half voted remain. This is a total disaster. Only honest thing left to do now is cancel the whole thing. You're joking aren't you? It was made clear as day what leaving the EU meant.
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Post by franthetownfan on Jan 30, 2019 17:52:27 GMT 1
Tears of laughter at people like you. 17 million people, 52% of the voting public, a majority. Dress it up however you want but your attitude towards leave voters is a huge part of what's causing division in this country. I respect anybody who voted remain and their reasons why. I have friends who voted for leave as a joke, for fun and to side with the apparent underdog. I’m also not alone in that. A lot of people who voted leave were voting for things that were never achievable or just plain lies. What’s wrong is that something like this was given to the general public to vote on.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 17:57:23 GMT 1
So parliament doesn't want a no deal but doesn't think MPs should be allowed to stop it from happening? They also don't want May's deal yet somehow also don't think they need more time to resolve the matter by extending A50. "Omnishambles" springs to mind. There is no popular mandate for no deal. People were misled that a vote to leave wouldn't mean a vote to leave customs union and free trade area. Close to half voted remain. This is a total disaster. Only honest thing left to do now is cancel the whole thing. You're joking aren't you? It was made clear as day what leaving the EU meant. Spot on! £350m a week to our nhs for a start
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 18:56:35 GMT 1
You're joking aren't you? It was made clear as day what leaving the EU meant. Spot on! £350m a week to our nhs for a start Myth... never said.....
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Post by tvor on Jan 30, 2019 19:12:09 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 19:30:34 GMT 1
You’re referencing a website “I love the EU”. Undoubtedly a good source reference. "EU is a project to unite the European countries into a a federal state, as described by Juncker in a speech in Bratislava in Sep 2016. Citizens should have the right to voice their opinion, via a vote, on whether they agree or not. But Tusk views referendums as a mistake as per recent BBC documentary. They seem unable to accept that some don’t view the EU as a solution or even required to resolve their day to day issues. Instead they focus on getting EU to rival Russia, China, US for example in Space, with the most likely outcome of conflict. And despite their efforts to create a European Army we won’t beat the super powers. The worlds moved on since European empires post WE2 and European politicians would be best to recognise and stop the empire building and trying to influence the world with their own agenda." EXCEPT THAT THE WEBSITE I PLACED A LINK TO ACTUALLY QUOTES CHAPTER AND VERSE FROM THE LISBON TREATY SOMETHING THAT THE BREXIT PROPAGANDA SEEMS UNABLE TO DO, WITH THEIR SPURIOUS CLAIMS
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Post by frankwellshrews on Jan 30, 2019 19:37:00 GMT 1
So parliament doesn't want a no deal but doesn't think MPs should be allowed to stop it from happening? They also don't want May's deal yet somehow also don't think they need more time to resolve the matter by extending A50. "Omnishambles" springs to mind. There is no popular mandate for no deal. People were misled that a vote to leave wouldn't mean a vote to leave customs union and free trade area. Close to half voted remain. This is a total disaster. Only honest thing left to do now is cancel the whole thing. You're joking aren't you? It was made clear as day what leaving the EU meant. Why keep persisting in this blatant lie? It's a well documented fact that senior members in the Leave campaign (such as Tory MEP Daniel Hannan amongst others) publically stated that leaving the EU shouldn't jeopardise our access to the single market. You may well have voted in the belief that leave meant WTO rules. A significant proportion of your fellow leave voters didn't, hence the fact our government has been tying itself in knots for two years trying to keep the various warring factions happy. Seriously, answer me this (any of the board's resident hard line brexiters are welcome to chip in on this); if there was a mandate for no deal, why has the government devoted two years and destroyed several careers trying to achieve a deal? Why did several hundred thousand people take to the streets to oppose it? Where did it say on the ballot paper that a vote to leave meant no deal?
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Post by martinshrew on Jan 30, 2019 19:46:47 GMT 1
You're joking aren't you? It was made clear as day what leaving the EU meant. Where did it say on the ballot paper that a vote to leave meant no deal? Where did it say a vote to leave meant leaving with a deal?
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Post by frankwellshrews on Jan 30, 2019 19:58:53 GMT 1
Where did it say on the ballot paper that a vote to leave meant no deal? Where did it say a vote to leave meant leaving with a deal? Thanks, that is EXACTLY the point. It was never clarified, hence why we have no genuine mandate for either course of action.
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Post by venceremos on Jan 30, 2019 19:59:48 GMT 1
Where did it say on the ballot paper that a vote to leave meant no deal? Where did it say a vote to leave meant leaving with a deal? It said neither, which is why we're in such a mess - because nobody knew what leaving really meant.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 20:00:49 GMT 1
Where did it say on the ballot paper that a vote to leave meant no deal? Where did it say a vote to leave meant leaving with a deal? Where did it say on the ballot paper what brexit meant?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 20:22:35 GMT 1
I rarely get involved in anything un-STFC related on here but I have to say as someone who started out as a strong remainer two and a half years.
The stance of the EU today has finally confirmed to me how much this country needs to get away from them.
If only I could change my opinion on Luke Waterfall over the course of nearly three years.
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Post by franthetownfan on Jan 30, 2019 21:07:12 GMT 1
I rarely get involved in anything un-STFC related on here but I have to say as someone who started out as a strong remainer two and a half years. The stance of the EU today has finally confirmed to me how much this country needs to get away from them. If only I could change my opinion on Luke Waterfall over the course of nearly three years. Stance on the EU? What, remaining strong and insisting it’s pointless to renegotiate what two years, having said that’s that for the last few months and won’t look into part of the detail that was apparently the UK’s idea to start with? Horrendous people. You uneducated buffoons need to stop thinking the rest of Europe owes Britain everything and start living in what we call the real world.
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Post by The Black Fingernail on Jan 30, 2019 21:25:37 GMT 1
“Uneducated buffoons.” This should be fun.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 21:25:48 GMT 1
I rarely get involved in anything un-STFC related on here but I have to say as someone who started out as a strong remainer two and a half years. The stance of the EU today has finally confirmed to me how much this country needs to get away from them. If only I could change my opinion on Luke Waterfall over the course of nearly three years. Hang on though, why should the EU entre into a re-negotiation on a deal agreed to by May while not removing her 'red lines'? She made our bed and now we have to lie in it. I suppose now though people can blame the EU for our problems without looking to where the problems really lie.
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Post by tvor on Jan 30, 2019 21:35:12 GMT 1
Exactly nicko, too many people look at this with blinkers on. There are two sides to this negotiation and the EU are only protecting their own interests, and in my opinion they're doing it quite well.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 21:56:31 GMT 1
A bit like how 52% and 48& made their bed and now should all lie in it.
People are so quick to kick May, Corbyn and whoever else into touch here and yet the EU go bulletproof.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jan 30, 2019 21:57:45 GMT 1
Should the UK remain a member of the EU or leave the EU.That was it wasn't it? Completely unconditional. Remain or leave. It really is that simple. That so many people who voted to remain find this so difficult to understand is beyond me... Now people can argue that the referendum and the question put to to those who voted was not fit for purpose, that such a complex topic required much more clarity. That I can certainly understand. Whoever put this together really did fail to understand the difficulties to come on such a complex issue (although we know that's because remain thought they were a shoe in). But for me they don't have a pot to p**s in when it comes to what the actual question that was asked. People voted to remain or leave, that was the choice and that was the decision made. Going on about single market, customs union and whatever else is a nonsense. When looking to the referendum and the question that was asked, it's a nonsense.. As for the ballot paper as what Brexit meant; that would be the 'or leave the EU'. Brexit as in Britain and Exit. Exit it as in leave. Leave the EU... From what we now know the referendum really didn't tackle this as well as it should, that's an understatement. But as things stand, as to what was asked, if they mean to implement the result of the referendum then that would mean without a deal or with a deal (whether that actually plays out is another matter of course). Anyhow, hopefully the latter. Hopefully they can come to some agreement and get a deal sorted with the EU and soon...still haven't got a clue what is happening here...
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jan 30, 2019 22:03:23 GMT 1
A bit like how 52% and 48& made their bed and now should all lie in it. People are so quick to kick May, Corbyn and whoever else into touch here and yet the EU go bulletproof. Doing what we should expect them to do, protect the interests of their members. In this case, with the question of the backstop, they are looking out for Ireland.
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Post by shrewsace on Jan 30, 2019 22:07:40 GMT 1
Should the UK remain a member of the EU or leave the EU.That was it wasn't it? Completely unconditional. Remain or leave. It really is that simple. That so many people who voted to remain find this so difficult to understand is beyond me... Now people can argue that the referendum and the question put to to those who voted was not fit for purpose, that such a complex topic required much more clarity. That I can certainly understand. Whoever put this together really did fail to understand the difficulties to come on such a complex issue (although we know that's because remain thought they were a shoe in). But for me they don't have a pot to p**s in when it comes to what the actual question that was asked. People voted to remain or leave, that was the choice and that was the decision made. Going on about single market, customs union and whatever else is a nonsense. When looking to the referendum and the question that was asked, it's a nonsense.. As for the ballot paper as what Brexit meant; that would be the 'or leave the EU'. Brexit as in Britain and Exit. Exit it as in leave. Leave the EU... From what we now know the referendum really didn't tackle this as well as it should, that's an understatement. But as things stand, as to what was asked, if they mean to implement the result of the referendum then that would mean without a deal or with a deal (whether that actually plays out is another matter of course). Anyhow, hopefully the latter. Hopefully they can come to some agreement and get a deal sorted with the EU and soon...still haven't got a clue what is happening here... If evidence emerged that convinced you Brexit would do serious economic harm to this country, causing long-term suffering for many people and lasting damage, would you insist on honouring the referendum result, or should there be room for people to say 'hang on, this is a really bad idea'?
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Post by frankwellshrews on Jan 30, 2019 22:10:29 GMT 1
Should the UK remain a member of the EU or leave the EU.That was it wasn't it? Completely unconditional. Remain or leave. It really is that simple. That so many people who voted to remain find this so difficult to understand is beyond me... Now people can argue that the referendum and the question put to to those who voted was not fit for purpose, that such a complex topic required much more clarity. That I can certainly understand. Whoever put this together really did fail to understand the difficulties to come on such a complex issue (although we know that's because remain thought they were a shoe in). But for me they don't have a pot to p**s in when it comes to what the actual question that was asked. People voted to remain or leave, that was the choice and that was the decision made. Going on about single market, customs union and whatever else is a nonsense. When looking to the referendum and the question that was asked, it's a nonsense.. As for the ballot paper as what Brexit meant; that would be the 'or leave the EU'. Brexit as in Britain and Exit. Exit it as in leave. Leave the EU... From what we now know the referendum really didn't tackle this as well as it should, that's an understatement. But as things stand, as to what was asked, if they mean to implement the result of the referendum then that would mean without a deal or with a deal (whether that actually plays out is another matter of course). Anyhow, hopefully the latter. Hopefully they can come to some agreement and get a deal sorted with the EU and soon...still haven't got a clue what is happening here... All this shows is that after 2 years you still haven't grasped what the problem is. Either that or you're a relentless troll with nothing better to do with your time. Probably both.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 22:12:29 GMT 1
A bit like how 52% and 48& made their bed and now should all lie in it. People are so quick to kick May, Corbyn and whoever else into touch here and yet the EU go bulletproof. The EU clearly aren't the problem though. The country voted to leave. We entrusted May to do a deal. The deal is nuts, Parliament told her so. She goes back and asks for changes without concessions. It's not the EUs fault it was rejected by Parliament. Why should they care?
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Post by frankwellshrews on Jan 30, 2019 22:14:12 GMT 1
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jan 30, 2019 22:20:44 GMT 1
Should the UK remain a member of the EU or leave the EU.That was it wasn't it? Completely unconditional. Remain or leave. It really is that simple. That so many people who voted to remain find this so difficult to understand is beyond me... Now people can argue that the referendum and the question put to to those who voted was not fit for purpose, that such a complex topic required much more clarity. That I can certainly understand. Whoever put this together really did fail to understand the difficulties to come on such a complex issue (although we know that's because remain thought they were a shoe in). But for me they don't have a pot to p**s in when it comes to what the actual question that was asked. People voted to remain or leave, that was the choice and that was the decision made. Going on about single market, customs union and whatever else is a nonsense. When looking to the referendum and the question that was asked, it's a nonsense.. As for the ballot paper as what Brexit meant; that would be the 'or leave the EU'. Brexit as in Britain and Exit. Exit it as in leave. Leave the EU... From what we now know the referendum really didn't tackle this as well as it should, that's an understatement. But as things stand, as to what was asked, if they mean to implement the result of the referendum then that would mean without a deal or with a deal (whether that actually plays out is another matter of course). Anyhow, hopefully the latter. Hopefully they can come to some agreement and get a deal sorted with the EU and soon...still haven't got a clue what is happening here... If evidence emerged that convinced you Brexit would do serious economic harm to this country, causing long-term suffering for many people and lasting damage, would you insist on honouring the referendum result, or should there be room for people to say 'hang on, this is a really bad idea'? And that would therefore mean the referendum result would be completely ignored? Rendering it meaningless? I mean what if a 'hang on, this is a really bad idea' second referendum again resulted in leave. Again, it would be ignored? Would you now, if given the power, completely ignore the referendum result and revoke article 50? What would you say to those who did vote leave if you did so? What do you think the consequences of that would be? As for the question; I believe that the referendum result should be honored because that is exactly what was stated at the time of the referendum. I'm hoping for a deal that would make this whole process as painless as possible. I believe that will happen. But I do not believe that no deal should be removed from the table.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 22:21:35 GMT 1
An ever evolving process in a liberal democracy. Some people have really struggled with this concept.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 22:23:03 GMT 1
I've honesty seen the worst in all since this mess started nearly three years ago by the idiots Johnson and Cameron (and where are they now).
The fact that so maybe people believe Politicians may have (or could have voted the other way).
No one knows what will happen leave or remain whether you be educated or not, well travelled or never left Shropshire. Whatever your status in life be.
The only thing that needs to happen is the results of the Referendum stand and to put this all to bed. There are far more important things like the NHS, the Environment and Shrewsbury Town.
I've got plenty of friends from Europe and I've travelled throughout Europe but I realise that the EU is on a par with the Royal Family and the Tory and Labour Parties, its deeply flawed.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jan 30, 2019 22:25:53 GMT 1
Should the UK remain a member of the EU or leave the EU.That was it wasn't it? Completely unconditional. Remain or leave. It really is that simple. That so many people who voted to remain find this so difficult to understand is beyond me... Now people can argue that the referendum and the question put to to those who voted was not fit for purpose, that such a complex topic required much more clarity. That I can certainly understand. Whoever put this together really did fail to understand the difficulties to come on such a complex issue (although we know that's because remain thought they were a shoe in). But for me they don't have a pot to p**s in when it comes to what the actual question that was asked. People voted to remain or leave, that was the choice and that was the decision made. Going on about single market, customs union and whatever else is a nonsense. When looking to the referendum and the question that was asked, it's a nonsense.. As for the ballot paper as what Brexit meant; that would be the 'or leave the EU'. Brexit as in Britain and Exit. Exit it as in leave. Leave the EU... From what we now know the referendum really didn't tackle this as well as it should, that's an understatement. But as things stand, as to what was asked, if they mean to implement the result of the referendum then that would mean without a deal or with a deal (whether that actually plays out is another matter of course). Anyhow, hopefully the latter. Hopefully they can come to some agreement and get a deal sorted with the EU and soon...still haven't got a clue what is happening here... All this shows is that after 2 years you still haven't grasped what the problem is. Either that or you're a relentless troll with nothing better to do with your time. Probably both. Troll?! That's rich looking to your own contributions on this thread... On this particular topic, from what I read here, there really is nothing of substance to suggest there is no other problem other than people having incredible difficulty in understanding one simply question that was put to the people of the UK in 2016 regarding the UK's membership of the EU...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 22:29:59 GMT 1
I've honesty seen the worst in all since this mess started nearly three years ago by the idiots Johnson and Cameron (and where are they now). The fact that so maybe people believe Politicians may have (or could have voted the other way). No one knows what will happen leave or remain whether you be educated or not, well travelled or never left Shropshire. Whatever your status in life be. The only thing that needs to happen is the results of the Referendum stand and to put this all to bed. There are far more important things like the NHS, the Environment and Shrewsbury Town. I've got plenty of friends from Europe and I've travelled throughout Europe but I realise that the EU is on a par with the Royal Family and the Tory and Labour Parties, its deeply flawed. Don't think anyone will dispute this. Personally, I'm just struggling to see why you think the EU should be criticised for the sheer incompetence of May, the Government and Corbyn.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 22:32:54 GMT 1
I don't think it looks good for anyone and I always try and see the positive in everything.
Its a weak Government but a weak opposition.
The Referendum was flawed in such a binary choice but the irony is that is got so many people voting.
Why a Remainer got the job after Cameron is also crazy.
The EU have also shown their true colours in this, 27 vs One.
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