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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2015 11:23:12 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35121684Looks like chummy Farage is now openly at war with the parties only MP. There have been a lot of rumours of members not renewing, financial difficulties and the disappointing (For them at least) result in Oldham. Have they been found out?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2015 11:50:37 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35121684Looks like chummy Farage is now openly at war with the parties only MP. There have been a lot of rumours of members not renewing, financial difficulties and the disappointing (For them at least) result in Oldham. Have they been found out? Christmas comes early!
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Post by venceremos on Dec 18, 2015 13:05:51 GMT 1
Not really the time for them to wobble, with the EU referendum on the horizon. If we vote to leave they'll be irrelevant and if we stay in they'll be what they are now - a small party seeking to influence from the fringes.
Single issue parties are never for the long term.
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Post by thelawman on Dec 18, 2015 18:18:15 GMT 1
I think UKIP have some way to go before they can be considered as divided and in as much turmoil as Labour are at the moment!
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Post by jamo on Dec 18, 2015 18:25:41 GMT 1
I think UKIP have some way to go before they can be considered as divided and in as much turmoil as Labour are at the moment! Wow. Don't let the shrieking voices of a very small number of self protectionist Labour MP's cloud your judgment on that score. Interest in, and membership of The Labour Party grows, meetings are packed and disenfranchised ex members and supporters see an alternative voice. Long way to go and no doubt some difficult issues to deal with but the party's doing ok thank you very much.
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Post by thelawman on Dec 21, 2015 21:19:02 GMT 1
It is a matter of record that great swathes of the electorate vote automatically for Labour (this applies to the Tories too...) no matter how buffoonish or obviously incompetent the leader. Is Corbyn observably worse than, say, Foot or Kinnock? Much of it is doubtless attributable to the cargo-cult aspect: vote Labour - its core constituency assumes without either reflection or analysis or any sense of history, economic crebility and so on - and modest pots of gold will continue to shower upon us, wrested from all those silk-hatted toffs, aka striving middle class folk who are net contributors of tax... Doesn't matter what happens or who's in charge, around 30% will vote Labour unless the sky falls in. Depressing, isn't it, but it's what all too many people are pleased to call " democracy" - our version of it.
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Post by mattmw on Dec 22, 2015 0:18:48 GMT 1
Surely the same goes for the 30% who vote Conservative at every election too without thinking too?
There are many middle class people who voted conservative at the last election thinking they were the party of economic competency and are now seeing that isn't quite the case and it's actually those same people now being hit economically. It's especially the case in Shropshire
Agree 100% people don't think before voting but let's not pretend that applies to just one party
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Post by venceremos on Dec 22, 2015 1:10:34 GMT 1
I think UKIP have some way to go before they can be considered as divided and in as much turmoil as Labour are at the moment! Good point. Not easy for one MP to be divided although we can only guess at his inner turmoil.
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Post by atcham jack on Dec 22, 2015 12:56:06 GMT 1
a few de-selections in the labour party will sort them out. not the right time for douglas karsi to opine on ukip leadership when fromage was about to make a speech about spamcams negotiations. ukip are a fading 1 man band, and our Marxist friends in labour will ensure decades of the nasty party
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 13:30:45 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35121684Looks like chummy Farage is now openly at war with the parties only MP. There have been a lot of rumours of members not renewing, financial difficulties and the disappointing (For them at least) result in Oldham. Have they been found out? Oh dear , hamlet , you are very brave indeed. Take cover cos Kuffdam will be after you . I'm sending him a great big poster of our Nige for his bedroom wall for Christmas . It was either that or a blow up doll of Suzanne cos he's worn the other one out. I suggest you send him the doll but make sure it's the de lux model, the one with real hair.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 14:18:37 GMT 1
There are many middle class people who voted conservative at the last election thinking they were the party of economic competency and are now seeing that isn't quite the case and it's actually those same people now being hit economically. It's especially the case in Shropshire Strange claim that, To be honest, yes they have got the tax credits wrong in its process, but the thought behind it is right, any one who works a 40 hour week should not be getting tax credits, quite simple really. As for the economy, we are the fastest growing in Europe, so they must be getting something right, i would give happily state the he conservatives have far greater economic competency than Labour.
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Post by mattmw on Dec 22, 2015 14:29:26 GMT 1
There are many middle class people who voted conservative at the last election thinking they were the party of economic competency and are now seeing that isn't quite the case and it's actually those same people now being hit economically. It's especially the case in Shropshire Strange claim that, To be honest, yes they have got the tax credits wrong in its process, but the thought behind it is right, any one who works a 40 hour week should not be getting tax credits, quite simple really. As for the economy, we are the fastest growing in Europe, so they must be getting something right, i would give happily state the he conservatives have far greater economic competency than Labour. Independent Office of Budget responsibility has shown personal debt is rising rapidly and putting the economy at serious risk of another crash, and growth forecasts being downgraded - national debt at record levels and Osborne not meeting his own deficit reductions. It really isn't a rosy picture In Shropshire government cuts will really hit in the next 3 years and see hospitals, schools, care homes, libraries and adult social care cut. Really don't think that's what people expected when they voted at the last election
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Post by venceremos on Dec 22, 2015 16:22:48 GMT 1
Strange claim that, To be honest, yes they have got the tax credits wrong in its process, but the thought behind it is right, any one who works a 40 hour week should not be getting tax credits, quite simple really. As for the economy, we are the fastest growing in Europe, so they must be getting something right, i would give happily state the he conservatives have far greater economic competency than Labour. Independent Office of Budget responsibility has shown personal debt is rising rapidly and putting the economy at serious risk of another crash, and growth forecasts being downgraded - national debt at record levels and Osborne not meeting his own deficit reductions. It really isn't a rosy picture In Shropshire government cuts will really hit in the next 3 years and see hospitals, schools, care homes, libraries and adult social care cut. Really don't think that's what people expected when they voted at the last election There was a household surplus of £67bn when the coalition came to power in 2010. Now there's a £40bn household debt, built on unsustainable house price inflation. In other words, nothing has changed - we're "growing" our economy with £107bn of private funding, mostly borrowed, to replace public debt. Yet again we're building on sand and, as soon as interest rates go up (and they just have in the US), indebted households will feel it. Osborne's supposed "march of the makers" has seen manufacturing output fall to a lower level than it was a year ago. Recovery? Really? Seems like more of the same only with worse public services and NHS, young people loaded with student debt etc etc. And of course the deficit's still there, although Osborne said it would have gone by now and we'd be repaying national debt. Even by his own measure, Osborne is a failed Chancellor. Who on earth would trust him to be PM?
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Post by neilsalop on Dec 22, 2015 17:37:00 GMT 1
Has anyone ever bothered to replace the phrase 'National Defecit' in a sentence with the phrase 'Bankers debt', which it really is? Try it.
''We're cutting tax credits, social funding, local government spending to help cut the bankers debt''. Got a little truth to it, don't you think.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 19:17:18 GMT 1
There are many middle class people who voted conservative at the last election thinking they were the party of economic competency and are now seeing that isn't quite the case and it's actually those same people now being hit economically. It's especially the case in Shropshire Strange claim that, To be honest, yes they have got the tax credits wrong in its process, but the thought behind it is right, any one who works a 40 hour week should not be getting tax credits, quite simple really. As for the economy, we are the fastest growing in Europe, so they must be getting something right, i would give happily state the he conservatives have far greater economic competency than Labour. It's not just about tax credits though. The so called middle class are also supporting family members who have had cuts in DLA and other allowances that support living. Of course there are many 'middle class' who have a disability and are feeling the effects of cuts to services and allowances.
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Post by lenny on Dec 22, 2015 20:10:48 GMT 1
Independent Office of Budget responsibility has shown personal debt is rising rapidly and putting the economy at serious risk of another crash, and growth forecasts being downgraded - national debt at record levels and Osborne not meeting his own deficit reductions. It really isn't a rosy picture In Shropshire government cuts will really hit in the next 3 years and see hospitals, schools, care homes, libraries and adult social care cut. Really don't think that's what people expected when they voted at the last election There was a household surplus of £67bn when the coalition came to power in 2010. Now there's a £40bn household debt, built on unsustainable house price inflation. In other words, nothing has changed - we're "growing" our economy with £107bn of private funding, mostly borrowed, to replace public debt. Yet again we're building on sand and, as soon as interest rates go up (and they just have in the US), indebted households will feel it.Osborne's supposed "march of the makers" has seen manufacturing output fall to a lower level than it was a year ago. Recovery? Really? Seems like more of the same only with worse public services and NHS, young people loaded with student debt etc etc. And of course the deficit's still there, although Osborne said it would have gone by now and we'd be repaying national debt. Eevn by his own measure, Osborne is a failed Chancellor. Who on earth would trust him to be PM? That's the key thing. A combination of pushing up house prices and a spree of privatising state assets to provide one-off injections of cash into the economy while continuing to fail to meet ludicrous self-imposed targets (the deficit was supposed to, as you say, be a surplus by now) isn't enough to do anything other than paper over short-term cracks - which is all Osborne needs it to do. As for the claim we're the fastest growing in Europe - news to me. Can't find an especially good source that gives any clear data without burrowing in too far, this is all I have so far: ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/table.do?tab=table&plugin=1&language=en&pcode=tec00115 which isn't especially useful. Nonetheless, as a country who felt the crash harder than many and suffered the slowest post-crash recovery on record, one would expect a degree of "catching up" from a developed country, and remaining out of the Euro will obviously be a big help; so anything other than doing better than most other European countries would be pretty disappointing really. The final point about Labour's economic policies being less reasonable - and I am aware that Downie is about as Red as Man City - but it's just total rubbish and why people continue to regurgitate these myths is beyond me. Labour's policies are mainstream macroeconomic theories and less than 25% of economists believe that the Conservative austerity policy was and is the right way to proceed gu.com/p/4bmbp/sfb .
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Post by jamo on Dec 22, 2015 21:28:01 GMT 1
There are many middle class people who voted conservative at the last election thinking they were the party of economic competency and are now seeing that isn't quite the case and it's actually those same people now being hit economically. It's especially the case in Shropshire Strange claim that, To be honest, yes they have got the tax credits wrong in its process, but the thought behind it is right, any one who works a 40 hour week should not be getting tax credits, quite simple really. Right. So as I understand your argument, Someone working 40 hours per week should not have to be accessing benefits because those 40 hours should be paid at a rate that allowed them to live independent of state aid. Hence, you are a firm supporter of employers paying the Living Wage, right ?
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Post by lenny on Dec 22, 2015 21:37:35 GMT 1
There was a household surplus of £67bn when the coalition came to power in 2010. Now there's a £40bn household debt, built on unsustainable house price inflation. In other words, nothing has changed - we're "growing" our economy with £107bn of private funding, mostly borrowed, to replace public debt. Yet again we're building on sand and, as soon as interest rates go up (and they just have in the US), indebted households will feel it.Osborne's supposed "march of the makers" has seen manufacturing output fall to a lower level than it was a year ago. Recovery? Really? Seems like more of the same only with worse public services and NHS, young people loaded with student debt etc etc. And of course the deficit's still there, although Osborne said it would have gone by now and we'd be repaying national debt. Eevn by his own measure, Osborne is a failed Chancellor. Who on earth would trust him to be PM? That's the key thing. A combination of pushing up house prices and a spree of privatising state assets to provide one-off injections of cash into the economy while continuing to fail to meet ludicrous self-imposed targets (the deficit was supposed to, as you say, be a surplus by now) isn't enough to do anything other than paper over short-term cracks - which is all Osborne needs it to do. As for the claim we're the fastest growing in Europe - news to me. Can't find an especially good source that gives any clear data without burrowing in too far, this is all I have so far: ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/table.do?tab=table&plugin=1&language=en&pcode=tec00115 which isn't especially useful. Nonetheless, as a country who felt the crash harder than many and suffered the slowest post-crash recovery on record, one would expect a degree of "catching up" from a developed country, and remaining out of the Euro will obviously be a big help; so anything other than doing better than most other European countries would be pretty disappointing really. The final point about Labour's economic policies being less reasonable - and I am aware that Downie is about as Red as Man City - but it's just total rubbish and why people continue to regurgitate these myths is beyond me. Labour's policies are mainstream macroeconomic theories and less than 25% of economists believe that the Conservative austerity policy was and is the right way to proceed gu.com/p/4bmbp/sfb . Better link knoema.com/nwnfkne/world-gdp-ranking-2015-data-and-charts second row down, third table across the one to look at.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 22:57:45 GMT 1
Strange claim that, To be honest, yes they have got the tax credits wrong in its process, but the thought behind it is right, any one who works a 40 hour week should not be getting tax credits, quite simple really. Right. So as I understand your argument, Someone working 40 hours per week should not have to be accessing benefits because those 40 hours should be paid at a rate that allowed them to live independent of state aid. Hence, you are a firm supporter of employers paying the Living Wage, right ? Absolutely......
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Post by atcham jack on Dec 23, 2015 10:26:28 GMT 1
ukip have been given 3 party political broadcasts next year. green party none. is that fair1
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2015 11:07:11 GMT 1
ukip have been given 3 party political broadcasts next year. green party none. is that fair1 Nope. Mind you, any chance for Nige to look like a moron on TV should be welcomed...
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Post by thelawman on Jan 6, 2016 19:38:39 GMT 1
I think UKIP have some way to go before they can be considered as divided and in as much turmoil as Labour are at the moment! Long way to go and no doubt some difficult issues to deal with but the party's doing ok thank you very much. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35239232You're right, just fine and dandy...
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Post by thatcherschild on Jan 6, 2016 21:23:30 GMT 1
haha,i was thinking the same,who needs only fools and horses,fawlty towers,on the buses,etc when you've got jeremy corbyn and labour...hilarious.
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