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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 20:03:28 GMT 1
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Post by simpsonsghost on Aug 4, 2015 20:43:04 GMT 1
Told you the NHS wasn't safe in Tory hands...............................................
.........although £1.9 million is a drop n the ocean compared to that ricket they made with the RBS shares today !!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 20:48:06 GMT 1
but the tories are trying to stop them doing that!!
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Post by simpsonsghost on Aug 4, 2015 20:53:54 GMT 1
WELL THEY'RE DOING A cr@p JOB OF IT THEN !!!!!
It Wouldn't have happened to this magnitude 5 years ago as the Audit Commission were in place to challenge the legality of such things.......but Eric Pickles disbanded the Audit Commission in 2011.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 21:35:10 GMT 1
but the tories are trying to stop them doing that!! I've spent most of the last week in and out of hospital and see an amazing organisation with dedicated staff which will soon be in ruins. If you think the Tories are the answer for the NHS I suggest you talk to some people who work for it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 21:51:03 GMT 1
but the tories are trying to stop them doing that!! I've spent most of the last week in and out of hospital and see an amazing organisation with dedicated staff which will soon be in ruins. If you think the Tories are the answer for the NHS I suggest you talk to some people who work for it. Yeah, i reckon i will give that director a call....... and getting rid of the audit commission or not, whoever made the decision to allow that to happen should go to prison... you do not need an audit commission to allow common sense to prevail....
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Post by BlueTone on Aug 4, 2015 21:59:00 GMT 1
I opened the thread expecting to see a photo of Jeremy Hunt
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Post by jamo on Aug 4, 2015 22:13:20 GMT 1
Never, ever, trust a Tory with The NHS.
Downie's regular contributions on here about this fine organisation merely seek to confirm this truism at every turn.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 23:01:26 GMT 1
A traditional insulin pen needle costs @ 4p. A new "safe" insulin pen needle which hospitals "have to" use to comply with H&S, costs @45p. The increase in cost is in no way compensated for by the DofH.
There are many reasons why the NHS is skint.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 0:18:57 GMT 1
Surely this isn't right . It can't be can it? If it is its an absolute screaming disgrace . I'm sure all the hard working ward staff are forming up to offer their congratulations . The people who made this decision need to be made to account for their actions . I console myself with those fine words which dripped from the thin lips of our beloved leader - we're all in this together . I still can't believe it and as I sit here typing away I feel myself getting more and more angry . Never mind , I'm sure the Government will continue to wallop the most disadvantaged in this Country to make up for it .
Never trust a Tory with the NHS Jamo? Wrong , You can always trust them to f.ck it up.
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Post by sussexshrew on Aug 5, 2015 5:37:58 GMT 1
I don't think that this thread has quite gone in the direction that Downie had hoped for.
But it is a scandal.
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Post by MartinB on Aug 5, 2015 7:10:59 GMT 1
I don't think that this thread has quite gone in the direction that Downie had hoped for. But it is a scandal. Gone in the direction I thought it would. The "Labour are great" gang blaming the Tories rather than yet another example of the NHS making poor decisions. The Government didn't decide to let this person retire and then re-appoint him on a higher salary, it would be the Trust its self. Lets face it if it had been the Government making the decision the LAG's would be screaming Government interference leave the running of the Health Service to the professionals. Back to the first post, crazy decision as who would ever think you could sell this idea?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 7:16:47 GMT 1
Simpsonsgohost has suggested a reason why this may happened Martin.
Anyway this happens in a lot of sectors, both private and public.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 7:24:46 GMT 1
I don't think that this thread has quite gone in the direction that Downie had hoped for. But it is a scandal. Gone in the direction I thought it would. The "Labour are great" gang blaming the Tories rather than yet another example of the NHS making poor decisions. The Government didn't decide to let this person retire and then re-appoint him on a higher salary, it would be the Trust its self. Lets face it if it had been the Government making the decision the LAG's would be screaming Government interference leave the running of the Health Service to the professionals. Back to the first post, crazy decision as who would ever think you could sell this idea?se Hmm , of course the Tory lot on here wouldn't be blaming Labour if the shoe was on the other foot . See simpsonsghost's post for an indication as to why the "Labour are great gang "as you call us are calling the Tory lot for this one. Good owd Eric , can always be trusted to make the right decisions .
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Post by mattmw on Aug 5, 2015 7:45:09 GMT 1
This happens quite a lot and isn't quite the financial mess it looks.
By leaving their post early the Chief Executives pension contributions and other contributions from the Trust come to an end. They are then rehired on a new contract, often at a higher wage but the savings come from a reduction in the pension contributions and work benefits, or reduced hours
Think something similar happened at the Shrewsbury and Telford Trust a few years ago. It's all part of introducing market forces into the NHS
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 8:05:10 GMT 1
I don't think that this thread has quite gone in the direction that Downie had hoped for. But it is a scandal. Gone in the direction I thought it would. The "Labour are great" gang blaming the Tories rather than yet another example of the NHS making poor decisions. The Government didn't decide to let this person retire and then re-appoint him on a higher salary, it would be the Trust its self. Lets face it if it had been the Government making the decision the LAG's would be screaming Government interference leave the running of the Health Service to the professionals. Back to the first post, crazy decision as who would ever think you could sell this idea? Exactly the direction i knew it would go....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 8:09:57 GMT 1
It's a shame that we can't have a discussion around the Simpsonsghost and Mattw points as opposed to cheap political point scoring.
Anyway carry on.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 8:22:42 GMT 1
It's a shame that we can't have a discussion around the Simpsonsghost and Mattw points as opposed to cheap political point scoring. Anyway carry on. I thought i had answered that, why should there need to be an audit commission board to oversee common sense, and what the hell are a public sector worker giving out such huge pensions for in the first instance.... As i see it, there have been investment in the NHS on a yearly basis, maybe not enough, but more money has gone into it, unlike other areas of public spending which has been cut...... or is that conveniently forgotten. Its waste like this that needs to happen, as to Matron's point about the cost of insulin pens..... address it with a H&S solution, rather than just accepting it and carrying on!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 9:15:55 GMT 1
I don't think that this thread has quite gone in the direction that Downie had hoped for. But it is a scandal. Gone in the direction I thought it would. The "Labour are great" gang blaming the Tories rather than yet another example of the NHS making poor decisions. The Government didn't decide to let this person retire and then re-appoint him on a higher salary, it would be the Trust its self. Lets face it if it had been the Government making the decision the LAG's would be screaming Government interference leave the running of the Health Service to the professionals. Back to the first post, crazy decision as who would ever think you could sell this idea? What poor decision has the NHS made? What rules or laws have been broken? Was there a better person for the job? Although the sums are relatively large, he hasn't done anything you or I couldn't do relative to our incomes and pension pots (which he has earned) If I had an pension with any company I could retire and then return to my post at a later date. Why should the NHS be different.
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Post by calimero on Aug 5, 2015 9:51:52 GMT 1
I work with quite a few nurses who have retired and now work regular 'bank' shifts. The amount of money spent on plugging gaps with agency staff - some of whom can cost around £80 an hour - dwarfs the pension pots of CEs.
The main - if not only - reason SaTH is running in the red is because it has to spend millions on agency nurses. After the Staffordshire tragedy new regulations about safe staffing levels were brought in but these have been quietly dropped by the government because they won't provide enough cash to help fill the positions.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 10:00:03 GMT 1
The amount of money spent on plugging gaps with agency staff - some of whom can cost around £80 an hour . [ It's worth pointing out to the Tory hackers that the nurse doesn't get £80 an hour. The vast majority of the £80 goes to the agency itself. Also, in 2010 when the Tories came back to power, they cut the number of nurse training places by around 5000. Now then Martin, who would you blame for this?
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Post by shrewsace on Aug 5, 2015 10:18:27 GMT 1
A case for a more democratic and accountable NHS if ever there was one.
But we would seem to be heading away from that ideal with the ever increasing marketisation of our health services.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 12:21:29 GMT 1
Do you know that more people die in hospital than any where else. Does this go to prove that the NHS isn't working . I think we need to be told. I blame the Torys for a start , they are practicing an insidious form of genocide .
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 12:22:26 GMT 1
Do you know that more people die in hospital than any where else. Does this go to prove that the NHS isn't working . I think we need to be told. I blame the Torys for a start , they are practicing an insidious form of genocide .
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Post by frankwellshrews on Aug 5, 2015 13:17:59 GMT 1
There are several considerations here.
Firstly, as mattmw points out, the initial article omits to mention how much the director's total remuneration package was (ie including pension contributions and others benefits in kind) before his 'retirement'. Employers contributions under the NHS scheme are about 14% so that would need to be added on to ascertain the true cost to the trust. It's not unlikely that this information will be in the trust's most recent set of published accounts. I'm currently on my smartphone but I'm one of you enterprising young bucks with a laptop could rustle up a copy and check whether his new salary, as reported, represents a saving to the trust.
Secondly, he was going to get a huge pension pot whatever happened. By taking it early, he will be costing the fund less and, as (AFAIK) the NHS scheme is a funded scheme, will ultimately be costing the taxpayer less as he will have accrued less benefits and a smaller lump sum (albeit marginally).
Thirdly, the 'right and wrong' question. It's clear that nothing technically or legally wrong has been done, else Jeremy Hunt wouldn't be talking about 'closing loopholes' but criminal proceedings instead.
Given the size of the payout and it's status as 'material by nature' it's extremely unlikely that it won't be audited in full once the trust publishes this year's draft accounts in April. However, provided (as is likely) it's found that the payment was appropriately sanctioned and sits within the scheme regulations (ie recipient was eligible, calculated, etc) it won't fall foul of any considerations of material misstatements or regularity. The auditors may have some scope to comment on it in their value for money conclusion but ultimately their real role is to determine whether the accounts represent a 'true and fair' view of the financial dealings of the trust not to tell them how to spend their money.
Personally, does it sit well with me? Seems a bit cheeky but, given that Providers are being forced to shave money off the budget wherever they can, things like this are inevitable.
The real question of whether or not something improper has happened will really be around whether or not the deal represents a saving or whether he's just helped himself to his pension pot early and then trousered a bigger salary. I guess there will also be an argument that, if he's taken on a new role, why shouldn't he get a bigger salary if that's what the position warrants? Either way, we won't really know about the first until the next set of audited accounts are out and comparisons can be made and the second ones a matter of opinion.
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Post by jamo on Aug 5, 2015 13:39:56 GMT 1
I don't think that this thread has quite gone in the direction that Downie had hoped for. But it is a scandal. Gone in the direction I thought it would. The "Labour are great" gang blaming the Tories rather than yet another example of the NHS making poor decisions. The Government didn't decide to let this person retire and then re-appoint him on a higher salary, it would be the Trust its self. Lets face it if it had been the Government making the decision the LAG's would be screaming Government interference leave the running of the Health Service to the professionals. Back to the first post, crazy decision as who would ever think you could sell this idea? Haven't you missed the point by some distance there Martin ? the whole point that this decision has been made is a direct result of a political decision by The Government, in the guise of Eric Pickles, to dismantle The Audit Commision. I look forward to reading the ' Tories are Great ' gang answering Simpsons Ghosts points.
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Post by MartinB on Aug 5, 2015 13:50:57 GMT 1
The amount of money spent on plugging gaps with agency staff - some of whom can cost around £80 an hour . [ It's worth pointing out to the Tory hackers that the nurse doesn't get £80 an hour. The vast majority of the £80 goes to the agency itself. Also, in 2010 when the Tories came back to power, they cut the number of nurse training places by around 5000. Now then Martin, who would you blame for this? I blame the Labour Party for choosing the wrong leader and wrong tactics so made themselves unelectable (Smiley face thingy)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 17:13:16 GMT 1
[ It's worth pointing out to the Tory hackers that the nurse doesn't get £80 an hour. The vast majority of the £80 goes to the agency itself. Also, in 2010 when the Tories came back to power, they cut the number of nurse training places by around 5000. Now then Martin, who would you blame for this? I blame the Labour Party for choosing the wrong leader and wrong tactics so made themselves unelectable (Smiley face thingy)
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Post by shrewsace on Aug 5, 2015 18:32:18 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 18:48:09 GMT 1
It's a shame that we can't have a discussion around the Simpsonsghost and Mattw points as opposed to cheap political point scoring. Anyway carry on. I thought i had answered that, why should there need to be an audit commission board to oversee common sense, and what the hell are a public sector worker giving out such huge pensions for in the first instance.... As i see it, there have been investment in the NHS on a yearly basis, maybe not enough, but more money has gone into it, unlike other areas of public spending which has been cut...... or is that conveniently forgotten. Its waste like this that needs to happen, as to Matron's point about the cost of insulin pens..... address it with a H&S solution, rather than just accepting it and carrying on!! Yes to be fair you did. Obviously common sense didn't prevail so maybe a commission of some sort is needed.
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