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Post by El Presidente on Sept 27, 2014 21:31:38 GMT 1
Yes. The money I pay my mortgage with Sean, what's that classed as? What about the money that heats my home? Etc etc. That money belongs to RBS and EDF...Debt, enslaving populations since....
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Post by staffordshrew on Sept 27, 2014 22:35:00 GMT 1
Most of those in local government have had 5 years of no pay rise and erosion of pensions and benefits, now many will lose their job too.
We don't actually have a recovery as we have a larger deficit now than when the Tories over, it's just the way the accountants choose or are directed to make things look e.g. quantitive easing to reduce the value of peoples's savings and unrealistically low interest rates, which also erodes ordinary people's general wealth - savings and pensions.
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Post by staffordshrew on Sept 27, 2014 22:45:51 GMT 1
I heard a whisper that youth clubs in Shrewsbury will be closing in march next year with lots of jobs being lost. We are supposed to be on the road to recovery and it seems the goverment are still trying to penny pinch where ever they can. Are they being closed or are they being outsourced to the 4th sector? I have done some parent carer participation work over the last 18 months around the SEND reforms and now transport and it needs to be made clear to users when services are being outsourced and not lost. Having said that that transport consultation is going to be interesting....... No, youth clubs are being closed - all over the country. Only outsourcing generally is to provide some small scale activities for disabled young people and possibly support Duke of Edinburgh award. There will soon be no provision anywhere for off the street access for all apart from the voluntary sector such as church youth clubs.
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Post by staffordshrew on Sept 27, 2014 22:57:20 GMT 1
Or another example, Staffordshire County Council building themselves a new Head Office complex in Stafford. Its called Staffordshire Place, two 6 storey building adjoining each other and which wouldn't look out of place in The City Of London. They moved in 3 years ago,just as the government announced the cuts. One of the two buildings is now practically empty,and will be so in 6 months, and then the council are going to try and sell it ! Part of the justification for building Staffordshire Place was to sell off/rent out the existing old council offices. I don't think they have managed to offload any of the old buildings yet! I hope my elected representatives don't have the cheek to turn up on my doorstep expecting to get my vote next election.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Sept 28, 2014 0:41:49 GMT 1
Yes. The money I pay my mortgage with Sean, what's that classed as? What about the money that heats my home? Etc etc. Most of the money in circulation originated as bank debt. A bank found what it considered a credit worthy party for whom it created money and advanced as a deposit in return for the promise to pay. The money in question was not previously in existence. This is unlike what we call government debt. Government debt is an essentially risk-free/low risk interest bearing asset held (now only mainly, because of QE) by the non-government sector. No creation of money takes place here: the non-government sector undertakes an asset swap: cash for gilts. The money creation by government comes from it spending money into the economy.
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Post by jamo on Sept 28, 2014 8:09:06 GMT 1
Yes. The money I pay my mortgage with Sean, what's that classed as? What about the money that heats my home? Etc etc. Most of the money in circulation originated as bank debt. A bank found what it considered a credit worthy party for whom it created money and advanced as a deposit in return for the promise to pay. The money in question was not previously in existence. This is unlike what we call government debt. Government debt is an essentially risk-free/low risk interest bearing asset held (now only mainly, because of QE) by the non-government sector. No creation of money takes place here: the non-government sector undertakes an asset swap: cash for gilts. The money creation by government comes from it spending money into the economy. Can't wait for Downie's Wetherspoon related response to this logic !
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2014 8:35:04 GMT 1
One way of avoiding accountability is to remove contract monitoring staff and reduce the quantity of commissioners.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2014 9:19:26 GMT 1
Are they being closed or are they being outsourced to the 4th sector? I have done some parent carer participation work over the last 18 months around the SEND reforms and now transport and it needs to be made clear to users when services are being outsourced and not lost. Having said that that transport consultation is going to be interesting....... No, youth clubs are being closed - all over the country. Only outsourcing generally is to provide some small scale activities for disabled young people and possibly support Duke of Edinburgh award. There will soon be no provision anywhere for off the street access for all apart from the voluntary sector such as church youth clubs. On thanks.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Sept 28, 2014 18:18:50 GMT 1
Closing the youth clubs is going to really mess up a cage football project I help run.
We go to the youth clubs to provide the activity.
Many are completely thriving. Over 100 at just one age group in one club in sundorne, for example.
I just don't know what those kids are going to do and where the relevant agencies are going to go to find them.
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Post by jamo on Sept 28, 2014 19:02:57 GMT 1
Closing the youth clubs is going to really mess up a cage football project I help run. We go to the youth clubs to provide the activity. Many are completely thriving. Over 100 at just one age group in one club in sundorne, for example. I just don't know what kids are going to do and where the relevant agencies are going to go to find them. Crikey, over 100 in one age group alone. Thats a hell of a lot of feral, sponging parents out on the p**s. Well, according to the ignorant amongst us.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2014 19:09:44 GMT 1
So if it is thriving, why does someone not take it over and make it better??
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Sept 28, 2014 22:01:17 GMT 1
So if it is thriving, why does someone not take it over and make it better?? The only profit is human benefit. That won't satisfy shareholders. The 'big society' was only ever a sound bite to dump everything back on the faith groups and the scouts. That's one hundred kids off the streets on one estate once a week. That's the place they can make friends with good role models. It's the place the agencies can get their message across, drugs, sexual health, whatever the needs are. But they don't matter because they don't pay. And that's what's such a travesty. I don't know how true these rumours are, but they closed a brilliant youth club of over 40 in gains park so nothing would surprise me.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2014 22:13:11 GMT 1
does not mean they have to close, can easily be taken over by the estates they serve!! did it in my town in the late 70's superb youth club that thrived that was run by parents and the community.
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Post by El Presidente on Sept 28, 2014 22:25:29 GMT 1
does not mean they have to close, can easily be taken over by the estates they serve!! did it in my town in the late 70's superb youth club that thrived that was run by parents and the community. Provision of premises may be an issue, if the council are providing. Together with the cost of public liability insurance, CRB checks etc.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Sept 28, 2014 23:03:04 GMT 1
The bloated state of the nineties and new millennium a lot of the provision out of local hands.
It'll be a huge cultural shift to win that back.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2014 23:06:23 GMT 1
does not mean they have to close, can easily be taken over by the estates they serve!! did it in my town in the late 70's superb youth club that thrived that was run by parents and the community. Provision of premises may be an issue, if the council are providing. Together with the cost of public liability insurance, CRB checks etc. Victims of red tape, what was placed there to protect is the start of the downfall.
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Post by staffordshrew on Sept 28, 2014 23:13:05 GMT 1
does not mean they have to close, can easily be taken over by the estates they serve!! did it in my town in the late 70's superb youth club that thrived that was run by parents and the community. They might be able to do it if the council could provide the back-up like training and a building and continuity, parents only do it till their own kids grow up, young volunteers only do it until they take up teacher training. All adults only do it until they get mouthed at by a stroppy youth and decide there are better things to do with their time. To get continuity you need organised support and the councils, all councils, just want to be rid of the resonsibility and cost. Thing to remember also is that those who attend don't want scouts, guides, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2014 23:27:16 GMT 1
So impose it on council workers.....
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Post by mattmw on Sept 28, 2014 23:34:18 GMT 1
Think the other thing to remember with the cut backs is what the knock on costs of that decision are.
Closing a youth club might save a few thousand pounds a year but what happens if people don't come forward to run the club? Kids start hanging out in inappropriate places, anti social behaviour increases, police have to spend more time in the area and suddenly the public are spending thousands more tackling a problem that wasn't there when the club was in existence
Lots of other ways a good, trained youth worker saves the public money. All being thrown away to save a bit trying to prove a political ideology.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 6:07:49 GMT 1
Provision of premises may be an issue, if the council are providing. Together with the cost of public liability insurance, CRB checks etc. Victims of red tape, what was placed there to protect is the start of the downfall. I would like to think that enhanced disclosure checks (CRB’S), ‘Safeguarding’ and PLI are necessary pieces of red tape. Also awareness training around issues such as ASD, ADHD and challenging behaviour would be necessary. More pesky red tape for you.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Sept 29, 2014 7:09:16 GMT 1
Think the other thing to remember with the cut backs is what the knock on costs of that decision are. Closing a youth club might save a few thousand pounds a year but what happens if people don't come forward to run the club? Kids start hanging out in inappropriate places, anti social behaviour increases, police have to spend more time in the area and suddenly the public are spending thousands more tackling a problem that wasn't there when the club was in existence Lots of other ways a good, trained youth worker saves the public money. All being thrown away to save a bit trying to prove a political ideology. Yes, yes and yes. More police time. More fire service time. Lower quality of life for other residents. And you only have to have one of them get pregnant and it'll cost the taxpayer more than the cost of the youth club. Of course there's not a direct cause and effect, but it's part of the fabric of that estate, where friendships are built, support networks developed, mentoring happens either directly or indirectly. The same can be said for the villages too. The numbers might be lower but in many cases the value is sky high. There's a higher probability of community involvement in villages probably, so there is hope. The young people will always be first in stuff like this because they can't vote.
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Post by atcham jack on Sept 30, 2014 5:48:07 GMT 1
judging by what George Osborne said at conference yesterday there are far worse cuts to come. councils have been starved of cash by the coalition, forbidden to put council tax up, and I cannot remember when the last re rating of houses was done. decades ago.
whoever gets in next May will still have the deficit to contend with. the floods on the Somerset Levels for example has set Somerset back £40 million before they think of the Millions of savings they have to make in addition, on this subject the government have had to spend billions on flood and sea defences around the UK and this just adds to the deficit.
with HS2 being built and Trident being replaced, sadly youth clubs, old folks centres, libraries can no longer be afforded by deliberately cash strapped councils. sadly Shropshire is no exception.
Down here in Devon The NHS is busy emptying community hospital beds, as they believe patients should be turfed out of major hospitals after ops. and cared for in their home at 15 mins. a call by a carer!
This country has gone to the dogs, just as well we have a decent football club to shout at/with FS
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Post by neilsalop on Sept 30, 2014 9:47:58 GMT 1
Things must be getting bad, we're even getting coherent posts from AJ.
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Post by jamo on Sept 30, 2014 10:25:28 GMT 1
Things must be getting bad, we're even getting coherent posts from AJ. :)Agreed, things must be much worse than we originally thought
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Post by staffordshrew on Sept 30, 2014 11:12:18 GMT 1
With the proviso that what George Osbourne says happens if the Tories get in again. We need a government that doesn't penalise ordinary working people. After all, he did say he would have the economy fixed by now, so he has failed and austerity hasn't worked. Time to say goodbye to George!
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Post by atcham jack on Sept 30, 2014 18:19:17 GMT 1
apologies for coherence. 500 lines AJ I must do better!
why have we a gov. that freezes public sector pay, refuses to give mid wives 1% and mp's award themselves 9%, and if we let tories in again 10million households will have benefits frozen for 2 years. and NHS goes further down the pan. AJ's answer to whoever governs, should start an NHS National lottery to abolish all charges, NICE rationing drugs and support for hospitals. now that is coherent!
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Post by Matster on Sept 30, 2014 18:25:45 GMT 1
Regarding valuation of houses, I think the last was in 97 in some areas?
Revaluation of properties for council tax would be far better than a mansion tax as long as it only applies when the property is transferred ownership.
Someone's commented recently that Osbourne picked the lowest apples from the tree and the rest are harder to reach.
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Post by atcham jack on Sept 30, 2014 19:26:13 GMT 1
the major reason the economy is not fixed is because the c of exchequer's plans were swept off course by the Eurozone Greece, Portugal, Italy and France Spain and Ireland. I am no Tory apologist or indeed a Tory, but the Eurozone crisis has affected UK.
my greatest grumble with this government, is as a lifelong trade unionist, I strongly object to rich persons tax refund, and the Bedroom tax. the 2 together are obscene and Lib Dems must take their share of blame. they are to be congratulated on their policy of £10,000 tax free income which has suddenly become Tory policy!!
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Post by staffordshrew on Sept 30, 2014 21:49:09 GMT 1
Politics is definately your forte aj
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unclebob
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Post by unclebob on Sept 30, 2014 23:06:48 GMT 1
Why should governments fund youth clubs or anything else that might make kids more balanced human beings? they dont want a balanced engaged or well educated population because they want to keep people stupid enough to vote for them, look at Downie, they would love a world filled with deep thinkers like him/her! he swallows it hook line and sinker by the sounds of it but it's nice to see that plenty don't. What to do about it? Wecant vote them out because then we end up with a similar lot headed up by the wrong Milliband. This has been going on for years, neglectthe young so they aren't clued up enough to do anything about it and a minority votes in every government who serves it's electorate and b******s to everyone else. there will be more riots and the kids will be demonized again and the dumb barstewards who vote will swallow it all because that's what they are told to believe!
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