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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2014 9:18:03 GMT 1
Relegation would be tough if it happens. League Two would be tough. But, however shocking this season is, it is a blip on RW's CV. A lot of questions need to be answered, but RW deserves our support and the benefit of the doubt that he will try to put things right. Blip? Really? A minimum of 2 years worth of errors to put right!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2014 12:56:15 GMT 1
A minimum of 2 years worth of errors to put right! Didn't our last manager put right 15 years of errors
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2014 13:31:47 GMT 1
Relegation would be tough if it happens. League Two would be tough. But, however shocking this season is, it is a blip on RW's CV. A lot of questions need to be answered, but RW deserves our support and the benefit of the doubt that he will try to put things right. Blip? Really? I'm really disappointed with RW. All the talk of Championship football has just gone. The move to the new ground was heralded as the bright new dawn, but it has now proven to have been a damp squib mainley the playing side of things. We need to start looking forward again and too the future like we were when we moved into the Greenhous Meadow.
Also for me Roland needs to come out and tell us what the new targets are for the club and how we are going to achieve them and he also needs to ensure that we have a squad next season that the fans can follow and get behind and one which the youngsters that follow the club can pick their favourite player from. We need stability in the playing squad, we haven't had that for atleast 7/8 years.....STOP GAMBLING WITH CONTRACTS, RENEW THEM EARLIER!
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Post by bobbytheblock19er on Apr 14, 2014 13:37:28 GMT 1
He could have started to put things right with the appointment of an experienced manager. I have no faith in RW to put this right. Him and GT have ****ed us. It was a failure by GT in the first season he came back not to get us up. The squad we had was the best ive seen in my time of supporting town. People are abit sentimental which is understandable but IMO he has completely ****ed us and we are going to be in a worse state in july than when he came back. League 2. Financial decline. Inexperienced manager. Assistant that has ****ed wrexham . Lower crowds. And hardly any players. Cheers GT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2014 13:46:29 GMT 1
Personally if we go down I would be quite happy to see Jackson in charge next season .
I honestly cannot see us being in free fall as some would suggest . We may struggle but I can see us coming back into League 1 within two seasons .
No need to panic lads and I know it looks as if we will be relegated but the season isn't over yet .
Keep the faith .
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2014 14:00:26 GMT 1
He could have started to put things right with the appointment of an experienced manager. I have no faith in RW to put this right. Him and GT have ****ed us. It was a failure by GT in the first season he came back not to get us up. The squad we had was the best ive seen in my time of supporting town. People are abit sentimental which is understandable but IMO he has completely ****ed us and we are going to be in a worse state in july than when he came back. League 2. Financial decline. Inexperienced manager. Assistant that has ****ed wrexham . Lower crowds. And hardly any players. Cheers GT Great rant but lacking a bit of truth... 1) surely we were in L2 when he came back? 2) Inexperienced manager and ex Wrexham assistant.. why do you blame GT for that? 3) Lower crowds... really? We are averaging more this season than the season prior to GT coming back.
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Post by bobbytheblock19er on Apr 14, 2014 18:44:21 GMT 1
So if we go down to league 2 hows everybody going to be feeling? As good as the day GT came back? For a man of his experience of the football league he didnt do a very good job when he got us to league 1.
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Post by mattmw on Apr 14, 2014 20:20:43 GMT 1
So if we go down to league 2 hows everybody going to be feeling? As good as the day GT came back? For a man of his experience of the football league he didnt do a very good job when he got us to league 1. An alternative view might be he did as well as he could with the resources available; the infrastructure the club had and the competition faced from other clubs. I'm by no means saying Turner didn't make mistakes - he clearly did - but still think the idea all the club needs is a new manager and everything will be rosy is way off the mark. Facts are Turner led the team to its two highest league positions in over 15 years. If we really want to improve on that its going to take more than just changing the manager to achieve it.
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Post by onthepitch on Apr 14, 2014 21:32:21 GMT 1
I got the impression at the Q&A that Turner may have been the cause of more problems than we realise.
The scouting for example.
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Post by mattmw on Apr 14, 2014 22:49:35 GMT 1
I got the impression at the Q&A that Turner may have been the cause of more problems than we realise. The scouting for example. Quite possible that he was, but again a good scouting network isn't cheap and unless the club was willing to pay for them Turners hands would be tied on that one. He had great scouting networks in the 80s in his first spell at the club, and had a very settled tight knit squad at that time too. I'm puzzled why he'd change that approach without good reason It's quite possible Turner lost the plot and just thought Sod it I'll rely on loan players for the next two years, despite knowing the downside it brings. But it seems a big change in approach if he did do that.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 8:37:58 GMT 1
I got the impression at the Q&A that Turner may have been the cause of more problems than we realise. The scouting for example. Quite possible that he was, but again a good scouting network isn't cheap and unless the club was willing to pay for them Turners hands would be tied on that one. He had great scouting networks in the 80s in his first spell at the club, and had a very settled tight knit squad at that time too. I'm puzzled why he'd change that approach without good reason It's quite possible Turner lost the plot and just thought Sod it I'll rely on loan players for the next two years, despite knowing the downside it brings. But it seems a big change in approach if he did do that. Matt, your obviously ignoring his final years at Hereford, which indicates it was a normal approach for Mr Turner
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Post by shrewder on Apr 15, 2014 9:00:14 GMT 1
The lesson we have learnt is that Town need to be quicker off the mark in recruiting for next. Season.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 15, 2014 10:22:46 GMT 1
Quite possible that he was, but again a good scouting network isn't cheap and unless the club was willing to pay for them Turners hands would be tied on that one. He had great scouting networks in the 80s in his first spell at the club, and had a very settled tight knit squad at that time too. I'm puzzled why he'd change that approach without good reason It's quite possible Turner lost the plot and just thought Sod it I'll rely on loan players for the next two years, despite knowing the downside it brings. But it seems a big change in approach if he did do that. Matt, your obviously ignoring his final years at Hereford, which indicates it was a normal approach for Mr Turner Both of which (Hereford and then again at Shrewsbury) I suspect struggled to compete for the permanent signature and wage demands of players at this level which are going to strengthen your side. I'm not saying he is without fault Turner and it's clear that clubs of relatively the same size as Town have managed to put a squad together that can stay in this division but I have no doubt that with both Town and Hereford he would have been down the pecking order at this level when it comes to attracting players to the club. More so at Hereford where (no disrespect to the place) it's going to be a difficult sell (Edgar Street is on it's arse). I doubt for example that would be his approach if he were managing someone like PNE with decent crowds or the likes of Rotherham, Posh or Brentford (who have rich owners looking to spend to get promoted). So I think it's wrong to suggest that's his normal approach. I think it was more a case of circumstances dictate. Just to add to that. When did the loan signings start to flood the place? How many did we use in the 4th division before we got promoted and then how many did we use after we got promoted? Didn't the loans start to come in after we had made it up to the 3rd division? Again, that would point to loans not being his normal approach. But only when he may well have been struggling to bring in permanent signings. Not sure like, I'm just guessing. But I thought the loans started to really increase once we got promoted.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 12:57:39 GMT 1
Matt, your obviously ignoring his final years at Hereford, which indicates it was a normal approach for Mr Turner Both of which (Hereford and then again at Shrewsbury) I suspect struggled to compete for the permanent signature and wage demands of players at this level which are going to strengthen your side. I'm not saying he is without fault Turner and it's clear that clubs of relatively the same size as Town have managed to put a squad together that can stay in this division but I have no doubt that with both Town and Hereford he would have been down the pecking order at this level when it comes to attracting players to the club. More so at Hereford where (no disrespect to the place) it's going to be a difficult sell (Edgar Street is on it's arse). I doubt for example that would be his approach if he were managing someone like PNE with decent crowds or the likes of Rotherham, Posh or Brentford (who have rich owners looking to spend to get promoted). So I think it's wrong to suggest that's his normal approach. I think it was more a case of circumstances dictate. Just to add to that. When did the loan signings start to flood the place? How many did we use in the 4th division before we got promoted and then how many did we use after we got promoted? Didn't the loans start to come in after we had made it up to the 3rd division? Again, that would point to loans not being his normal approach. But only when he may well have been struggling to bring in permanent signings. Not sure like, I'm just guessing. But I thought the loans started to really increase once we got promoted. Yes thats right, the first two seasons we have an average amount of loan players with the spine of our team being our players. Last season we actually started with very few loan players but it became apparent that the squad wasnt good enough so GT went down the loan route. You can put that down as one mistake but remarkably he started this season with a thinner and weaker squad than he did the previous season. Really is bizarre that he chose to go down that route this season, can only put it down to him/us not being able to attract the players we wanted
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Post by mattmw on Apr 15, 2014 18:10:46 GMT 1
Quite possible that he was, but again a good scouting network isn't cheap and unless the club was willing to pay for them Turners hands would be tied on that one. He had great scouting networks in the 80s in his first spell at the club, and had a very settled tight knit squad at that time too. I'm puzzled why he'd change that approach without good reason It's quite possible Turner lost the plot and just thought Sod it I'll rely on loan players for the next two years, despite knowing the downside it brings. But it seems a big change in approach if he did do that. Matt, your obviously ignoring his final years at Hereford, which indicates it was a normal approach for Mr Turner Think Stuttargartshrew and proudsalopian sum up what I was getting at better than I can. The gist of it was basically that I don't think it was through choice Turner went down the loan route. Either with us or Hereford The reason it's important to establish whether the loan route was done through, or down to other reasons that the two other posters put forward is because it will influence our future choice of manager too Jackson has hinted he wants to go down the youth development route, and the release of McNally suggests that process has already started. That approach is great but the club needs to be sure it can attract good 13-14 year olds, invest in their training and put in place good contracts to retain the best players. And do this as well or better than other clubs In many ways hope I'm wrong and it was just a case of Turner loosing the plot and a new manager can come in, sign some experienced pros and have us back in league one ASAP (assuming we go down). Just worried it's not that simple
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Post by bobbytheblock19er on Apr 15, 2014 18:57:25 GMT 1
So if we go down to league 2 hows everybody going to be feeling? As good as the day GT came back? For a man of his experience of the football league he didnt do a very good job when he got us to league 1. An alternative view might be he did as well as he could with the resources available; the infrastructure the club had and the competition faced from other clubs. I'm by no means saying Turner didn't make mistakes - he clearly did - but still think the idea all the club needs is a new manager and everything will be rosy is way off the mark. Facts are Turner led the team to its two highest league positions in over 15 years. If we really want to improve on that its going to take more than just changing the manager to achieve it. he constantly said funds were avalible for strengthening, released/lost the spine of our squad 2 summers running! He obviously thort by releasing morgan and co he could replace them. Clearly he was wrong.look how hereford have ended up now! In the skrill relegation zone! Could be us soon
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Post by champagneprince on Apr 15, 2014 19:17:04 GMT 1
I can't really see any quick return to League 1 because I don't think the cash is there to spend, regardless of what RW has said.
And if we do manage to stay up it's going to be more of the same I'm afraid.
I have no doubts that RW is a passionate fan and has our best interests at heart and so if he sells (our only real hope of being secure and progressing in League 1 and beyond)then it will be to someone whom he trusts and who won't jeopardise our football league status in the town.
The future is bright because there is a future with RW at the helm. However, it's going to be bumpy for a few years to say the least.
Hopefully, he can acquire a team of youngsters brought up through the ranks, plus a few experienced heroes, who we can all call our own and get behind even if they're not that successful. That pursuit of togetherness is all important at the moment IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 19:33:26 GMT 1
I can't really see any quick return to League 1 because I don't think the cash is there to spend, regardless of what RW has said. And if we do manage to stay up it's going to be more of the same I'm afraid. I have no doubts that RW is a passionate fan and has our best interests at heart and so if he sells (our only real hope of being secure and progressing in League 1 and beyond)then it will be to someone whom he trusts and who won't jeopardise our football league status in the town. The future is bright because there is a future with RW at the helm. However, it's going to be bumpy for a few years to say the least. Hopefully, he can acquire a team of youngsters brought up through the ranks, plus a few experienced heroes, who we can all call our own and get behind even if they're not that successful. That pursuit of togetherness is all important at the moment IMO. That is my point, there are 2 local business men who are very interested now, but only RW ego is stopping him sell, in 2 or 3 years, there may not be people other than investors who see STFC as a cash cow left to sell to, and RW is getting on a bit!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 19:52:57 GMT 1
I can't really see any quick return to League 1 because I don't think the cash is there to spend, regardless of what RW has said. And if we do manage to stay up it's going to be more of the same I'm afraid. I have no doubts that RW is a passionate fan and has our best interests at heart and so if he sells (our only real hope of being secure and progressing in League 1 and beyond)then it will be to someone whom he trusts and who won't jeopardise our football league status in the town. The future is bright because there is a future with RW at the helm. However, it's going to be bumpy for a few years to say the least. Hopefully, he can acquire a team of youngsters brought up through the ranks, plus a few experienced heroes, who we can all call our own and get behind even if they're not that successful. That pursuit of togetherness is all important at the moment IMO. That is my point, there are 2 local business men who are very interested now, but only RW ego is stopping him sell, in 2 or 3 years, there may not be people other than investors who see STFC as a cash cow left to sell to, and RW is getting on a bit!! Is this based on fact or is it purely just pub talk?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 19:55:20 GMT 1
I think its fairly well known that 2 people are interested and have made several enquiries
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 20:04:44 GMT 1
I think its fairly well known that 2 people are interested and have made several enquiries Yes there are rumours but how true they are is debatable To give you an example, earlier this season a friend was on Radio Shropshire after a game, he was talking after another defeat and was having a moan about Roland, he finished saying there was a bid for the club but Roland turned it down because he didnt want to sell to that person. Over the following week that rumour grew, was on here, on the STFC facebook page and spread across to lots of people not on the internet. The next time I saw the mate I said did he realise how it had spread (he didnt) and where he had heard the story from, he said he had heard it off another mate, when I spoke to that mate he thought he heard it off me!! I honestly dont know whether anyone is interested in taking over the club and whether Roland would sell, personally I hope the answer is yes to both of them
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Post by atcham jack on Apr 15, 2014 20:07:50 GMT 1
there is a slim possibility of relegation, and if that was to happen , i have changed my mind about town having a poor season in L2. we have youth coming through, many of our existing squad would do well in that league, that is if they will stick with town
we would need 1 older experienced striker, defender and mid fielder, doubling up as coaches to keep to a smaller squad. i would also support jacko as permanent manager. i am sure RW has him in mind.
our aim must be the playoffs, but unless there is a marked investment in the squad, promo would bring us back to the flotsom and jetsom of where we are.
looking on the bright side we will stay up and the sugar plum fairy joins the board. welcome aboard ethel cuttlebunt!
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Post by champagneprince on Apr 15, 2014 20:21:11 GMT 1
welcome aboard ethel cuttlebunt!
Oooh, that was really close to being filtered !
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Post by atcham jack on Apr 15, 2014 20:58:23 GMT 1
it could have been E Norma Spoobs! but Ethel Cuttlebunt has more pedigree and style.
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Post by eddyman93 on Apr 15, 2014 21:38:06 GMT 1
Hate to bring more bad news but Luton are now certainly up in League 2 next season. Average crowd of over 7,000 and with Andre Gray who won't be going anywhere plus a massive boost in money they will get by being back in the football league I would have good money on them being right up there next season, playoffs minimum. Plus we could have either Grimsby or Cambridge up through Conf play-offs both who average more than 3,000 in the conference which will bump quite a bit if either goes up. Add to that a Pompey team who if they stay up will certainly be more stable next season as with every year they survive they pay off more of the former debt owed to players , freeing up more money for their budget. If town do go down I think next season a midtable finish would be a good result.
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Post by quinnster on Apr 17, 2014 23:34:34 GMT 1
I think RW is of a certain vintage and won't / can't change his ways. L2 will mean MJ in charge , which he deserves, but with 1 hand tied behind his back regarding budget.
L2 will simply mean RW will think he doesn't need to rock stability by spending too much and "risking" the club's long term future, the sort of thing he is on record for.
Stabillity is his word, but what is this when we lost £400k last year. We can't sustain losses like that, and medium term would threaten the club, so the only way to prevent that is a fire sale of the assets, i.e Players.
The only way forward is a change at the top, and soon, or we will end up where we were 20 years ago, on the verge....
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Post by gainsparkshrew on Apr 18, 2014 11:10:20 GMT 1
There are basically three issues here.
1/ The financial state of the game at the moment, players and more specifically their agents, are dictating the pay scales. It is clear that we are not prepared to pay what is considered to be "the going rate". I believe that Ant Thomas stated on the thread about our finances that he was researching the financial situation of other L1 clubs and what he had researched to that stage was quite frightening. I look forward to seeing the full results as from my own research on a site linked to Companies House there are many FL clubs literally on a knife edge, literally they are not going concerns.
As fans we want our club to be successfull,but at what cost ? Somebody has to say enough is enough we aren't prepared to pay £3k per week for an average L1 player who has just been released by another L1 club and whose agent is hawking him around the division to get the highest offer then fair enough !...what ever happens we will still have a stable club to support
2/ MJ - I believe he will be our long term manager, and good luck to him he deserves a chance and it's about time we gave a newbie a chance. We used to be reknowned for it,almost an Anfield Boot Room mentality, promote from within..and guess what it coincided with our most successfull time as a club. At the Q & A MJ stated that we need to overhaul our Scouting and Youth Development, within a week Bernard McNally goes...there's a big clue as to who will be in charge next season.
3/ RW - stubborn? yes absolutely, but there's no way he will sell up until he has a profitable business to sell ( it's worth more to him that way !) Rolands big task is to sort out the commercial side of the business. Specifics are hidden in financial accounts but its patently obvious that our Commercial offering is failing. RW needs to review everything, Restaurants, Facilities, Merchandising, Match Day offerings etc etc the whole caboodle including the badge because we certainly aren't selling the current shirts in any vast quantities !
So thats how I see STFC progressing, develop our own,no big transfer fees nor wages in the medium term ,if we go down so be it. MJ working on producing a team of our own. RW getting the commercial offering sorted. = Long term sustainable football club
Rather that than being another club in crisis,overspending climbing the divisions,going into administration,points deductions and then in freefall like so many in the past and a lot more in the future
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