|
Post by lionshrew on Nov 5, 2011 18:37:25 GMT 1
FIFA's decision on not letting England wear a poppy on the shirt is absolutley disgusting!!! Being denied the chance to respect to service men & women of this country who paid the ultimate sacrifise for our freedom. Link------> BBC
|
|
|
Post by grinfish on Nov 5, 2011 18:44:45 GMT 1
Doesn't seem that unfair. One rule for everybody, isn't it?
|
|
|
Post by Ned on Nov 5, 2011 18:46:14 GMT 1
Agree with FIFA on it.
Not every British person insists on wearing a poppy anyway, i'd be surprised if even half of the population wheres them!
|
|
|
Post by roberto02afcct on Nov 5, 2011 18:52:56 GMT 1
well lets have poppies everywhere or when they do that england flag in the corner also have a poppy one next to it as there is no rule against that
|
|
|
Post by Dale on Nov 5, 2011 18:59:54 GMT 1
Wearing the poppies are fine for domestic football but can imagine there's more 'politics' involved when it comes to international football and this sort of thing, we have to remember not everyone was on the 'Western Allies' side during WWI and WWII, if I put my England tinted glasses on I think it is wrong but I can see where FIFA are coming from on this....... say Germany played England in a friendly now and Germany wanted to put some remembrance thing on their shirts honouring their war dead, would we, the English, tolerate that?
|
|
|
Post by WindsorShrew on Nov 5, 2011 19:01:25 GMT 1
I don't see a problem tbh, FIFA have to have rules regarding kits - other nations are not allowed to change theirs so why us.
Perhaps the FA should have addressed the issue previously with FIFA.
|
|
|
Post by Steve Rogerson on Nov 5, 2011 19:44:31 GMT 1
I agree with Fifa on this. I don't support Remembrance Day for political reasons.
|
|
|
Post by SouthStandShrew on Nov 5, 2011 19:48:43 GMT 1
Which are Steve?
|
|
|
Post by Steve Rogerson on Nov 5, 2011 20:04:42 GMT 1
It is a combination of a few things really. I don't like the way it seems to glorify military endeavour. I also think that caring for ex-service people and their families should not be a matter of charity - the whole poppy appeal thing just lets the government off the hook. And I don't like the nationalism associated with it - soldiers of all countries are just as much a victim of war as the soldiers of the UK.
|
|
|
Post by SouthStandShrew on Nov 5, 2011 20:09:26 GMT 1
Sort of agree.
|
|
|
Post by shrewsace on Nov 5, 2011 20:28:05 GMT 1
It is a combination of a few things really. I don't like the way it seems to glorify military endeavour. I also think that caring for ex-service people and their families should not be a matter of charity - the whole poppy appeal thing just lets the government off the hook. And I don't like the nationalism associated with it - soldiers of all countries are just as much a victim of war as the soldiers of the UK. I sympathise with this view to some extent. Firstly, there always seems to be a group of people intent on taking offence at poppies not being worn, being worn too early, being worn too late or being worn on the wrong side at this time of year. Secondly, poppies are now seen as a symbol of rememberance for all our war dead. No problem with that. But I don't like the way some of our politicians try to conflate demonstrating respect for fallen service personnel with an acceptance that Iraq, Afghanistan and the Falklands were just and necessary wars.
|
|
|
Post by lionshrew on Nov 5, 2011 20:38:23 GMT 1
It is a combination of a few things really. I don't like the way it seems to glorify military endeavour. I also think that caring for ex-service people and their families should not be a matter of charity - the whole poppy appeal thing just lets the government off the hook. And I don't like the nationalism associated with it - soldiers of all countries are just as much a victim of war as the soldiers of the UK. I sympathise with this view to some extent. Firstly, there always seems to be a group of people intent on taking offence at poppies not being worn, being worn too early, being worn too late or being worn on the wrong side at this time of year. Secondly, poppies are now seen as a symbol of rememberance for all our war dead. No problem with that. But I don't like the way some of our politicians try to conflate demonstrating respect for fallen service personnel with an acceptance that Iraq, Afghanistan and the Falklands were just and necessary wars. I agree with that people shouldn't be forced to wear poppies. But I feel people should have the choice to wear or not wear a poppy. Don't like people being denied the chance to pay respect for the people who have died. Just feel wearing the poppies should be decided by The FA & England.
|
|
|
Post by clashcityrocker on Nov 5, 2011 22:04:08 GMT 1
What if any one of the England squad had the same political reservations as Steve Rogerson (who I happen to empathise with on this). If it was a uniform approach with the whole squad, then effectively, they will have been made to wear a poppy against their will or wishes.
Sort of ironic, when world wars were fought and won to give us this freedom of choice.
Incidently, I wear a poppy. personal choice again, as an ex-serviceman.
|
|
|
Post by grinfish on Nov 5, 2011 22:14:10 GMT 1
It IS decided by the FA as far as the bounds of their "jurisdiction", which is the English leagues.
National teams are bound by International rules, which the English FA has agreed to be bound by at whatever stage they were applied. So, in effect, it has been decided by the FA and England, by entering FIFA.
The rules protect people of all participating nations from potential offence.
|
|
|
Post by bertymax on Nov 5, 2011 22:20:12 GMT 1
It is a combination of a few things really. I don't like the way it seems to glorify military endeavour. I also think that caring for ex-service people and their families should not be a matter of charity - the whole poppy appeal thing just lets the government off the hook. And I don't like the nationalism associated with it - soldiers of all countries are just as much a victim of war as the soldiers of the UK. I can see where your coming from but i dont see the whole Poppy thing as a glorification of military endeavour, but more of a memorial to the folly of it.
|
|
|
Post by jonbond on Nov 5, 2011 22:34:03 GMT 1
Some of the posts on here are a disgrace to the memory of ordinary people who gave their lives for our freedoms. Without them there wouldnt even be a FIFA or an FA.
|
|
|
Post by grinfish on Nov 5, 2011 23:10:12 GMT 1
Stuff and Nonsense. There is not one post in this thread that disrespects those who have made personal sacrifices serving our nation.
I see a criticism of our governments' neglect for past and current serving personnel.
I see criticism of governments using the fallen of the Great War(s) as loose reasons to back other conflicts.
I see criticism of glorification of war.
I see people exercising freedom of thought and speech, which is as the end of the day the best way to honour the fallen, by using that which they fought to defend.
That is what they fought for, using it shows our appreciation. It in no way engenders a reason to be upset that we use that gift in the way it was intended - to allow us to express our views frankly.
That said, you are entitled to your opinion - but neither is a disgrace to their memory. Both pay tribute to it.
|
|
ragnvaldr
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 155
|
Post by ragnvaldr on Nov 5, 2011 23:48:31 GMT 1
One way of doing it would be them to colour one rose in on the badge with a black felt tip pen creating a poppy I bet FIFA wouldn't stop a player from wearing a turban because of religious beliefs. Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by grinfish on Nov 5, 2011 23:57:12 GMT 1
I bet FIFA wouldn't stop a player from wearing a turban because of religious beliefs. How is religious belief relevant to this? Oh yes, it isn't. Don't mix issues. It makes you look like you have a problem with Sikhism.
|
|
|
Post by Rusholme Ruffian on Nov 5, 2011 23:57:39 GMT 1
Some of the posts on here are a disgrace to the memory of ordinary people who gave their lives for our freedoms. Without them there wouldnt even be a FIFA or an FA. eh?
|
|
|
Post by blue and ambar on Nov 6, 2011 0:26:21 GMT 1
It's a shame that the poppy is seen by many as so political (by those supportive and against) when it should be simply about remembering those who have died. The poppy is used as it was the only plant that grew on many of the battlefields in Flanders of World War 1. Whether the dead were British or not was irrelavant. It was adopted by the British Legion but people of all nationalities who have died should be remembered. www.britishlegion.org.uk/about-us/history-of-the-poppy-appeal
|
|
|
Post by WindsorShrew on Nov 6, 2011 0:31:17 GMT 1
Think people need to understand the poppy is not a religious nor a national symbol.
It is however a symbol of choice for those who choose to remember those who have fought and those who are still fighting for this land. Be that physically or mentally.
It is entirely voluntary and if people don't want to wear it that is in fact why we that do wear it.
Gentle educated people sleep soundly in their beds because rough illiterate people by their actions allow them to do so.
|
|
|
Post by clashcityrocker on Nov 6, 2011 8:11:07 GMT 1
Think people need to understand the poppy is not a religious nor a national symbol. It is however a symbol of choice for those who choose to remember those who have fought and those who are still fighting for this land. Be that physically or mentally. It is entirely voluntary and if people don't want to wear it that is in fact why we that do wear it. Gentle educated people sleep soundly in their beds because rough illiterate people by their actions allow them to do so. Excellent Post. Respect
|
|
|
Post by mattmw on Nov 6, 2011 10:30:09 GMT 1
Seconded for Windsorshrews post
I personally support the poppy appeal, particularly for the sacrifices the conscripted service men made in the 1st and 2nd world wars, and to make sure modern day service staff get the support they need as a result of modern day conflicts
However I am becoming tired of this annual hunt to find an organisation that doesn't "support" the poppy appeal, and then somehow claim they are failing to respect the war dead.
|
|
|
Post by davewill on Nov 7, 2011 11:56:38 GMT 1
Did anyone notice that in the Saturday / Sunday prem League games, WBA were the only team not to have a Poppy emblem on their shirts. Wonder why? Even all the refs and linos had Poppy emblems
|
|
saintshrew
Midland League Division One
Sharpshooters
Posts: 335
|
Post by saintshrew on Nov 7, 2011 12:29:45 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by keithyshrew25 on Nov 7, 2011 22:10:58 GMT 1
It's a persons individual preference whether they wear a poppy or not, but I strongly disagree with the opinion that is glorifies war in any way shape or form.
I also fail to understand which nation would take offence at a nation remembering its war dead. I'm fairly certain it would not cause a problem for the Germans if they were playing us.
Which brings me on to FIFA. Totally crazy decision - I don't see how the poppy is a political symbol but maybe I'm just not getting it.
|
|
|
Post by albionshrew on Nov 7, 2011 23:05:26 GMT 1
I wear my poppy for the people who gave their lives for my generation's freedom from Nazism. I also wear the poppy for soldiers who are dying now for our freedom against anti-democratic institutions in the Middle East. Any Germans involved in FIFA by any chance?
|
|
|
Post by blum on Nov 8, 2011 14:18:48 GMT 1
I wear my poppy for the people who gave their lives for my generation's freedom from Nazism. I also wear the poppy for soldiers who are dying now for our freedom against anti-democratic institutions in the Middle East. Any Germans involved in FIFA by any chance? Every year at this time there is the same garbage spouted. I for one dont think wearing a poppy is glorifying military endeavours as someone posted earlier. It is to remember (IMO) the fallen who risked everything for this nation. Is the gloryfying? not in my opinion. This is the problem with modern society, no respect, the looting and murdering rioters showed this. I am no racist it does my head in; IF THE WEARING OF A POPPY OR REMEMBERING THE PEOPLE WHO LOST THEIR LIVES FOR THIS NATION OFFENDS YOU.... Please feel free to pack your bags and **** OFF I know there are many left wing PC brigaders on here and expect i'll get a slating, however, I couldnt give a flying ****
|
|
|
Post by blue and ambar on Nov 8, 2011 22:34:09 GMT 1
Some of the posts on here are a disgrace to the memory of ordinary people who gave their lives for our freedoms. Without them there wouldnt even be a FIFA or an FA. eh? Someone mentioned this on sky sports news which seemed a bit odd. Something about there not being a FIFA or football in this country if history had been different. Somehow I find that unlikely, especially as the game had been quite established in Germany over the past century. On another note I heard on talk sport there was talk of England being taken on a tour of Auschwitz during the tournament next year.
|
|