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Post by Shrewed on May 6, 2011 12:33:53 GMT 1
First he turns down the opportunity to a referendum on proportional voting the holy grail of lib dem politics, then he joins the coalition with the tories against the wishes of many in his own party. It now seems likely that the voters will reject AV not that he was seen too often promoting AV. Is the final nail in his coffin the worst electoral performance of the party since it was formed. Time will tell but expect a lot of coalition U turns in the coming week.
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Post by WindsorShrew on May 6, 2011 12:37:49 GMT 1
Labour must be loving this, Lib Dems ar eat the mo voicing their anger at the Tories regaqrding all things AV.
Clegg will lose his head from within his own party, when that day comes the coalition will start to crumble at a greater rate than present.
Thing is if he had gone in with Labour ( as was offered) where would he be now ?
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Post by Shrewed on May 6, 2011 12:41:44 GMT 1
Labour must be loving this, Lib Dems ar eat the mo voicing their anger at the Tories regaqrding all things AV. Clegg will lose his head from within his own party, when that day comes the coalition will start to crumble at a greater rate than present. Thing is if he had gone in with Labour ( as was offered) where would he be now ? The country would have more growth, less inflation, less unemployment, more police on the beat. Just for starters.
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Post by WindsorShrew on May 6, 2011 12:46:00 GMT 1
Good one Ed had me chuckling away that one...
You forgot to mention more interest, more debt and more false social claiments...possibly more signatures throwing us further into Europe.
Maybe not involved in Libya ?
Anyway were stuck with the coalition for now...lets see what the future brings....tbh lets see what saturday brings !!!
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2011 12:46:13 GMT 1
Alot of talk of sell outs on here today........Clegg is the master of them!
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Post by Hatfieldshrew on May 6, 2011 12:46:30 GMT 1
Labour must be loving this, Lib Dems ar eat the mo voicing their anger at the Tories regaqrding all things AV. Clegg will lose his head from within his own party, when that day comes the coalition will start to crumble at a greater rate than present. Thing is if he had gone in with Labour ( as was offered) where would he be now ? The country would have more growth, less inflation, less unemployment, more police on the beat. Just for starters. And Brown still as PM. I think Clegg would of been in the same situation if he'd of gone with Labour.
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Post by venceremos on May 6, 2011 13:42:08 GMT 1
Hard to see him recovering from here. If AV is lost, I can't see why the Lib Dems need to stay in the coalition. They could pull out and leave the Tories to form a minority government. They'd still have plenty of influence in opposition but wouldn't be the fall guys for the Tories any more.
As it stands, they're blamed for supporting Tory policies, get little credit for their own policies that they do get through and the Tories will take all the credit if (big if) these economic policies are deemed successful. The nearer we get to the next election, the weaker the Lib Dems' position in government will become.
As much as I dislike Clegg and Alexander (especially Alexander), I'm not convinced a collapse of the Lib Dems will do anything other than return a majority Tory government. The Lib Dem leadership seems set on a one-sided suicide pact that could see them obliterated in 4 years' time and the Smirkers' Party in complete control.
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Post by ratcliffesghost on May 6, 2011 13:48:16 GMT 1
So far he's blamed the tories for this, labour for that.
At the end of the Day all those who voted Lib Dem last june were sold a pup as the glove puppet has repeatedly ignored and even gone againt his manifesto - thoroughly deserved kick up the arse Cleggy!
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Post by Lord Ha Ha on May 6, 2011 13:50:07 GMT 1
To be fair to Clegg he has given something to the Libs that they haven't had in decades, all be it minor some form of government. The Libs would never have this sort of influence in opposition so I think Clegg will stay from the point of view that having 5% of influence in running the country is better than none.
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Post by davycrockett on May 6, 2011 13:54:08 GMT 1
I'm sure it's the end of Clegg but also the end of Lib Dems at least for a generation
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2011 14:07:53 GMT 1
Labour must be loving this, Well I certainly am. Clegg is reaping what he and his power hungry colleagues have sowed by giving us a tory government, something no one who voted lib dem at the last election wanted or thought they voted for. Clegg has been shafted by the tory party, he has been shafted by lib dem supporters and I believe I just heard someone at lib dem headquarters ordering a load of ky jelly and some rubber gloves.
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Post by mrbunny on May 6, 2011 14:24:24 GMT 1
Probably is the end of Clegg, nobody to blame but himself.
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Post by stockportershrew on May 6, 2011 14:30:18 GMT 1
Labour must be loving this, Well I certainly am. Clegg is reaping what he and his power hungry colleagues have sowed by giving us a tory government, something no one who voted lib dem at the last election wanted or thought they voted for. Clegg has been shafted by the tory party, he has been shafted by lib dem supporters and I believe I just heard someone at lib dem headquarters ordering a load of ky jelly and some rubber gloves. I actually think Cameron and co will be the more pleased and possible long term beneficaries. At the moment, the LDs are a useful punchbag allowing the Conservatives to escape the punishment for any unpopular policies. In the meantime, former Lab tactical voters especially in the south of England move away from the LDs and allow Conservative back in. Labour can also expect stronger challenge from SNP in its Scottish heartlands. This added to boundary changes which will be advantageous to the Conservatives and Hey presto - a Conservative majority. Milliband et al will need to up their game considerably over the coming years to look a realistic alternative.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on May 6, 2011 14:34:19 GMT 1
Clegg has made a monumental mistake.
Yes you want to to have a voice in government and yes everyone needs to compromise, but to his core support he did more than that, he got into bed with satan.
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Post by grinfish on May 6, 2011 14:49:37 GMT 1
There's a few years to go yet, all standing down would do is bring government of the UK to a standstill, at a time when the last thing we need is everything to stall.
Getting into coalition was never going to be a popularity contest winner, but it is an opportunity to get some things done, whilst stopping other things being done too harshly.
A Lab/Lib coalition would have been stuck with trying to placate various other minor parties to get anything through parliament, leading to disproportionate favours being received by some smaller sectors.
Was it an easy choice to line up with the Tories? No. Was it the only viable choice? Yes.
Of course, if the Labour vote goes against AV, it's hard to see how they can complain about boundaries being tweaked and the like (not like Labour didn't tweak boundaries themselves, it's pretty much traditional for the government to try and maintain their majority). AV would have provided a decent foil to such shenanigans, and given the future more desirable (to many) option of a Lab/Lib coalition where the numbers actually made it a workable government.
Clegg, and through him the Lib Dems, threw themselves on the sacrificial altar of British politics to give democracy a chance to grow up. Shame all the stick-in-the-muds are too scared of losing their narrow-minded ideals and self-absorbed power trips to go along with it.
Oh, and of course, none of this would have been an issue if Labour had held to THEIR broken manifesto pledge from 1997 to offer an electoral reform referendum. But of course, get a majority, and you don't risk opening up a fairer voting system which could see you thrown back out.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2011 16:52:22 GMT 1
About a year to go until the Tories start making decisions that will actually mean something to the country......instead of half hearted decisions that when they go pete tongue they blame the Libs or previous goverments.
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Post by mattmw on May 6, 2011 17:17:25 GMT 1
Don't think the Conservatives will be too displeased with the election results. Despite implementing a series of wide ranging cuts their vote seems to have held up well especially south of liverpool
Labour hasn't gained too much ground in these areas, and are struggling a little in Scotland, and Ed Miliband hasn't landed too many blows on Cameron, while the Lib Dems problems are well documented.
Think a few in Conservative Central office wouldn't mind seeing the coalition fall apart and a snap election as they might fancy their chances of forming a government in their own right.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2011 18:43:58 GMT 1
I think it's impossible to predict with any confidence the Lib Dems' future. Their hopes remain tied with the Tories on an economic upturn over the next two years which will give some credibility to the policies they have been a part of.
The immediate interest for me is in Scotland where the SNP's performance was stunning.
Meanwhile, I was given much pleasure by seeing what just might be the final days of the BNP. Incredible collapse by them over the last 18 months. Inconceivable now to think of Griffin on Newsnight. Was that the moment that the slide began? Most of the rats are deserting it now.
Even our old friend SalopPride ducked out - moving to the British Freedom Party as their press officer at the end of last year, although not entirely sure they can be described as a party, more an Internet forum......
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hertfordshrew
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Following Salop from a safe distance.
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Post by hertfordshrew on May 6, 2011 19:23:18 GMT 1
I think it's impossible to predict with any confidence the Lib Dems' future. Their hopes remain tied with the Tories on an economic upturn over the next two years which will give some credibility to the policies they have been a part of. The immediate interest for me is in Scotland where the SNP's performance was stunning. Meanwhile, I was given much pleasure by seeing what just might be the final days of the BNP. Incredible collapse by them over the last 18 months. Inconceivable now to think of Griffin on Newsnight. Was that the moment that the slide began? Most of the rats are deserting it now. Even our old friend SalopPride ducked out - moving to the British Freedom Party as their press officer at the end of last year, although not entirely sure they can be described as a party, more an Internet forum...... Agreed! Also, the best thing about the British Freedom Party website is this peach of an entry: "Go home!" in 50 different languages! Absolutely classic!
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Post by shrewsace on May 6, 2011 19:29:32 GMT 1
Good one Ed had me chuckling away that one... You forgot to mention more interest, more debt and more false social claiments...possibly more signatures throwing us further into Europe. But Portugal and Ireland implemented the same sort of 'tough' austerity packages that Osborne insists are the only way forward for us. The result? low growth and high unemployment resulting in the need for bailouts which of course mean more debt. Osborne then cites Portugal and Ireland as examples of the disaster that may befall the UK if we don't push ahead with his austerity programme!
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Post by ratcliffesghost on May 6, 2011 20:00:54 GMT 1
I think it's impossible to predict with any confidence the Lib Dems' future. Their hopes remain tied with the Tories on an economic upturn over the next two years which will give some credibility to the policies they have been a part of. The immediate interest for me is in Scotland where the SNP's performance was stunning. Meanwhile, I was given much pleasure by seeing what just might be the final days of the BNP. Incredible collapse by them over the last 18 months. Inconceivable now to think of Griffin on Newsnight. Was that the moment that the slide began? Most of the rats are deserting it now. Even our old friend SalopPride ducked out - moving to the British Freedom Party as their press officer at the end of last year, although not entirely sure they can be described as a party, more an Internet forum...... Agree 100% mon And the Scottish National Party's rise compared to the Plaid Cwyrmu's demise speaks volumes about the two countries differing desperation for free prescription drugs too
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Post by grinfish on May 6, 2011 20:10:04 GMT 1
And the Scottish National Party's rise compared to the Plaid Cwyrmu's demise speaks volumes about the two countries differing desperation for free prescription drugs too Nah, it just says that Oil is fetching a better sale price and volume than Slate, and that Welsh Gold is running out Sadly, the export market for dislike of the English is limited in value due to it's vast volumes available worldwide (France and Scotland are giving it away due to an historical surplus) and only really accepted as a commodity worth having these days in certain small pockets and Anglesey
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Post by El Presidente on May 6, 2011 20:32:27 GMT 1
Probably...I think it is certainly the end of any chance the electorate have at lobbying successfully for voting reform for the next 30 yrs. Of note, Windy and Matron were snapped discussing this very issue late last night...
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Post by grinfish on May 6, 2011 21:30:40 GMT 1
Probably...I think it is certainly the end of any chance the electorate have at lobbying successfully for voting reform for the next 30 yrs. Of note, Windy and Matron were snapped discussing this very issue late last night... ...but which if them is the tithead in the luminous jacket?
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Post by WindsorShrew on May 6, 2011 21:34:25 GMT 1
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Post by shrewroo on May 6, 2011 21:54:40 GMT 1
Are you pulling our collective legs Claire?
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2011 22:25:58 GMT 1
If the Lib Dems had held their nerve, and stood outside a "coalition" i am sure they would have had a lot more input with their policies. They could have chosen which of Labours/Cons policies they would side with, in return for certain, shall we say, "considerations." But no, they smelt the heady whiff of power and jumped in with both feet. Now they will find that there are no friends in politics, and will be either cast aside, or forced to withdraw by the growing rumblings of discontent by their members in the country.
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Post by WindsorShrew on May 6, 2011 22:31:46 GMT 1
but to his core support he did more than that, he got into bed with satan. Interesting comment Dave, bizarre but interesting.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2011 23:43:24 GMT 1
Good one Ed had me chuckling away that one... You forgot to mention more interest, more debt and more false social claiments...possibly more signatures throwing us further into Europe. But Portugal and Ireland implemented the same sort of 'tough' austerity packages that Osborne insists are the only way forward for us. The result? low growth and high unemployment resulting in the need for bailouts which of course mean more debt. Osborne then cites Portugal and Ireland as examples of the disaster that may befall the UK if we don't push ahead with his austerity programme! Not too sure that's a fair comparison. Ireland's cuts were/ are far far more significant than that of the UK - about 20% vs. 4% from what I can remember of the coverage on 5 live. Also people will point to Canada as an economy which took significant austerity measures to cut a significant deficit and would suggest that was the reason why it returned to economic growth. Personally I prefer the argument that they are heavily reliant on the US economy and that Canada's return to growth was more a by product of the performance of the economy South of the border. It's still too early to tell what the story will be come the end of the current Government's stint.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on May 7, 2011 8:22:43 GMT 1
Interesting comment Dave, bizarre but interesting. Lib Dems voters are generally left wing. Conservatism is in many ways the opposite of what they stand for. Harsher sentences for drugs / legalisation of cannabis Pro life / pro choice Stronger policing / personal freedoms Low tax / In previous election raising income tax Sit down with your average Lib Dem and they don't like the Tories as much as a Labour voter would not. Add in that lots of Labour voters tactically vote Lib Dem to keep the Tories out in Lib / Tory fights. Very, very few Liberal Democrat voters would have any desire to be following a Tory agenda. That is why they unleashed hell on Clegg yesterday: it was not just about tuition fees.
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