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Post by Shrewed on Aug 23, 2011 15:37:09 GMT 1
Paul, I said that if Crewe had got an equaliser that would be undeserved would hardly say in the next breath that Town did not deserve to win. An example of reading something into a statement that is not there at all.
By the way I'll admit to disliking Simpson but I suspect if you read back over my comments you'll find that most of them turn out to be views that most would agree with now.
As far as Turner goes to be honest I neither find him the messiah or the devil. Interestingly a comment made by another member of this board on Saturday "shame Peters went when he did if he'd stayed we'd be in Division 1 now" now that's a statement that I can agree with!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2011 15:46:10 GMT 1
Exalted proudsalopian. Agreed, especially with the last paragraph. I wasn't sure when GT came back if it was the right move, the only thing I was sure of was that it was time for Simpson to leave. According to Hereford fans I was expecting a man who could not relate to the fans and was taking the job as part of his retirement. In fact the opposite is true and after Simpson, it's refreshing to hear post game reactions that usually match how I and a lot of fans have seen the game. If you are simply black and white and expect promotion then last season was a failure, but if you are realistic it was our best effort for a long time at getting out of this league (the opinion that it was an easy league last season is just rubbish).
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Post by stockportershrew on Aug 23, 2011 15:49:43 GMT 1
good post from proud salopian.
I have no idea whether we are weaker than last year and I guess we won't know for a few games yet. I'm presuming though, as with last season, the team that starts the season won't be the one that ends it.
However, most Town fans are probably united in having some reservations about centre midfield and also whether the rather rigid 4-4-2 system will deliver.
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Post by Shrewed on Aug 23, 2011 16:22:37 GMT 1
Exalted proudsalopian. Agreed, especially with the last paragraph. I wasn't sure when GT came back if it was the right move, the only thing I was sure of was that it was time for Simpson to leave. According to Hereford fans I was expecting a man who could not relate to the fans and was taking the job as part of his retirement. In fact the opposite is true and after Simpson, it's refreshing to hear post game reactions that usually match how I and a lot of fans have seen the game. If you are simply black and white and expect promotion then last season was a failure, but if you are realistic it was our best effort for a long time at getting out of this league (the opinion that it was an easy league last season is just rubbish). Paul how do you judge a league, I'd suggest that the number of points the top teams get is a way of judging it only two champions have had less points that Chesterfield in the last 15 years. The reason we failed to gain promotion last season was our failure to break teams down particularly at home and our performances against the top teams Twice in the last 5 seasons we have been closer to promotion than we were last season. By the way do you really expect any manager to say what he's really feeling 10 minutes after the final whistle he says what the fans want him to say.
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Post by ceejay75 on Aug 23, 2011 16:22:50 GMT 1
Was it only me that noticed that the Skipper played a lot better on Saturday with Shane playing alongside him ? Jacobsen put in a quality shift and thought the pairing of Macca and Wroe in midfield added a new dimension to our game . Jermain popping up front to support Wroe sterling run was a suprise to the Gaffer but it worked so give Grandison a go up the front and be prepared to be amazed is my thought ( Old enough to remember Alf Wood going from defence to ace striker ) What have we got to loose? not as barmy as it sounds. Grandison could make an excellent centre forward. More than capable of beating defenders, powerful going forward and would be a real handful up front. If there is a striker crisis at the GM , Grandison could fill those boots
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Post by Hippo on Aug 23, 2011 16:35:10 GMT 1
Paul how do you judge a league, I'd suggest that the number of points the top teams get is a way of judging it only two champions have had less points that Chesterfield in the last 15 years. The reason we failed to gain promotion last season was our failure to break teams down particularly at home and our performances against the top teams Why is the points of the top few reflective of the strength of the division as a whole? If anything, surely the fact that the totals were lower, could indicate that the teams throughout were of a higher standard, and therefore more difficult to dominate week in, week out? Course it might not mean that either, but that's neither here nor there. Point is, unless you just use experience of watching the teams to judge, which is of course subjective, there's no way to accurately say when a league is strong or not, based on points totals or anything else. They're all relative to that particular season, and only that particular season.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2011 16:38:02 GMT 1
Exalted proudsalopian. Agreed, especially with the last paragraph. I wasn't sure when GT came back if it was the right move, the only thing I was sure of was that it was time for Simpson to leave. According to Hereford fans I was expecting a man who could not relate to the fans and was taking the job as part of his retirement. In fact the opposite is true and after Simpson, it's refreshing to hear post game reactions that usually match how I and a lot of fans have seen the game. If you are simply black and white and expect promotion then last season was a failure, but if you are realistic it was our best effort for a long time at getting out of this league (the opinion that it was an easy league last season is just rubbish). Paul how do you judge a league, I'd suggest that the number of points the top teams get is a way of judging it only two champions have had less points that Chesterfield in the last 15 years. The reason we failed to gain promotion last season was our failure to break teams down particularly at home and our performances against the top teams Twice in the last 5 seasons we have been closer to promotion than we were last season. By the way do you really expect any manager to say what he's really feeling 10 minutes after the final whistle he says what the fans want him to say. It could be argued that the top teams had less points than in recent years because the other teams were stronger........ all the promoted teams have started well in League 1 and I don't expect any of them to be whipping boys in that league. Simpson always seemed to see a different game to me and many other fans I certainly don't think he said what the fans wanted to hear. GP was always very honest and entertaining.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2011 16:39:17 GMT 1
Paul how do you judge a league, I'd suggest that the number of points the top teams get is a way of judging it only two champions have had less points that Chesterfield in the last 15 years. The reason we failed to gain promotion last season was our failure to break teams down particularly at home and our performances against the top teams Why is the points of the top few reflective of the strength of the division as a whole? If anything, surely the fact that the totals were lower, could indicate that the teams throughout were of a higher standard, and therefore more difficult to dominate week in, week out? Course it might not mean that either, but that's neither here nor there. Point is, unless you just use experience of watching the teams to judge, which is of course subjective, there's no way to accurately say when a league is strong or not, based on points totals or anything else. They're all relative to that particular season, and only that particular season. ahh beat me to it
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Post by Amsterdammer on Aug 23, 2011 17:33:47 GMT 1
Turners use of forwards, chopping and changing is not letting the players gel, give Morgan and Gornell 10 / 12 games together. Surely if strikers need 10/12 games to gel, then it would still be Collins/Morgan rather than Gornell/Morgan. You can't have it both ways. I also thought this was an old post that came back to the top when I first read it. After following some of the prems games over the last week you have to admire the short termism we have now. Vorm plays a great 45 minutes for Swansea and is a much better keeper than De Gea who made 2 gafss. Wenger needs to buy or quit as his team can't even beat Liverpool etc. Pressure on Keith Hill at Barnsley already I really don't see why the panic. But as I will be at Saturday's game, I will also be concerned about the clu b's decline into oblivion if it is still 0-0 after 30 minutes.
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mollcollie
Midland League Division One
Welsh and proud to be british
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Post by mollcollie on Aug 23, 2011 20:31:44 GMT 1
Well guy's , as iI have said, it is only my opinion, but its good to see that it has resulted in some healthy debate and not the usual slagging off of other posters. As for the comment about wanting town to fail, the poster obviously does'nt know me. I look forward to town doing the business this year, and in the future and I also look forward to many more debates with true fans
COYB
The Collie
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2011 14:18:08 GMT 1
Paul, I said that if Crewe had got an equaliser that would be undeserved would hardly say in the next breath that Town did not deserve to win. An example of reading something into a statement that is not there at all. By the way I'll admit to disliking Simpson but I suspect if you read back over my comments you'll find that most of them turn out to be views that most would agree with now. As far as Turner goes to be honest I neither find him the messiah or the devil. Interestingly a comment made by another member of this board on Saturday "shame Peters went when he did if he'd stayed we'd be in Division 1 now" now that's a statement that I can agree with! Ok Ed, still see that comment in a different manner but its not important I will agree with a lot of the comments about Simpson but lets face it if you follow a L2 side and go in with a negative mindset about a manager then sooner or later your comments will come to fruition. And your last paragraph sums it up for me, its well known that you want your golden boy Peters as manager and no manager will ever live up to him. However what amazes me is his teams often represent the things you criticised Simpson for and what you continue to criticise Turner for. For the record, I was a big GP fan, I dont think we will ever have such a dedicated manager who has no links to the clubs. However it is clear that by the end he was losing the plot and I think its very debateable to say we would be in L1 if he was in charge. Ironically what I think cost him was one of the things that he was most looking forward to and that was the ground move.
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Post by Shrewed on Aug 24, 2011 14:35:22 GMT 1
Paul, I said that if Crewe had got an equaliser that would be undeserved would hardly say in the next breath that Town did not deserve to win. An example of reading something into a statement that is not there at all. By the way I'll admit to disliking Simpson but I suspect if you read back over my comments you'll find that most of them turn out to be views that most would agree with now. As far as Turner goes to be honest I neither find him the messiah or the devil. Interestingly a comment made by another member of this board on Saturday "shame Peters went when he did if he'd stayed we'd be in Division 1 now" now that's a statement that I can agree with! Ok Ed, still see that comment in a different manner but its not important I will agree with a lot of the comments about Simpson but lets face it if you follow a L2 side and go in with a negative mindset about a manager then sooner or later your comments will come to fruition. And your last paragraph sums it up for me, its well known that you want your golden boy Peters as manager and no manager will ever live up to him. However what amazes me is his teams often represent the things you criticised Simpson for and what you continue to criticise Turner for. For the record, I was a big GP fan, I dont think we will ever have such a dedicated manager who has no links to the clubs. However it is clear that by the end he was losing the plot and I think its very debateable to say we would be in L1 if he was in charge. Ironically what I think cost him was one of the things that he was most looking forward to and that was the ground move. Paul, the two things that the Peters sides had that have been missing since he left: Players commitment to the club and the battling attitude of the players. They were never the most skilful side but they always gave 100%, which could never be said about a Peters team.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2011 14:48:13 GMT 1
I was more than happy with GP as a manager here (although accepting he lost the plot prior to him leaving). I don't know the stats but wouldnt mind betting that last season was up there in terms of the most number of times the team came from behind to win/draw (like last night).......... so don't write off this regime as non battlers. OK a few away performances last season where there wasnt much fight but plenty of examples of that in GP's era too.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2011 15:08:16 GMT 1
Ed how do you measure committment to the club and the battling attitude of players?
Over the past few years you (and plenty of others including myself) have commented on various things wrong including midfielders getting overrun, no plan B, no settled strike partnership, lack of goals from midfield etc. But now all thats wrong is apparently the players ability to committ to the club and battle.
Ive very rarely (if at all) heard people questioning players committment to STFC and/or their battling qualities.
Im intrigued why you think the players who played under GP were more commited than players who played under Simpson or the current players. Can you tell me how you have come to that conclusion?
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Post by tvor on Aug 24, 2011 18:18:51 GMT 1
I don't know the stats but wouldnt mind betting that last season was up there in terms of the most number of times the team came from behind to win/draw (like last night).......... so don't write off this regime as non battlers. stats.football365.com/2011/ENG/D3/ptsgain.html
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