mollcollie
Midland League Division One
Welsh and proud to be british
Posts: 251
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Post by mollcollie on Aug 22, 2011 19:53:27 GMT 1
Early days and some strong points of view being expressed over these pages already. For me nothing has changed at the GM except for a few names. Jacobson is a very good left back and Gornell is without doubt a handfull upfront. Morgan I have admired for a number of years, and Hazell will do a job for us. So whats wrong.................. Mr Turners tactics, the same as last season, we have not mixed up selection for over 50 games. For 4-4-2......read 4-2-4, we will always be caught lacking in midfield whilst we play 2 wide players, who really want to be strikers(Wright, Ainsworth) I am not John Taylors biggest fan, but at least he will track back. Turners use of forwards, chopping and changing is not letting the players gel, give Morgan and Gornell 10 / 12 games together. Turners back room staff are all defenders, yet they dont know what their best back 4 are. too many changes too early will breed inconsistancy throughout the season. And please prove me wrong Mr Turner......Sharps is carrying an injury, he is a shadow of the player of last season, get it sorted now, or risk a lengthy lay off. Graham Turner may be a legend to many STFC fans, but Town fans are a fickle bunch, if we dont get it right and get it right soon, I can hear the calls for a head.....the potential is there, and roly has again put his hand in his pocket. So Mr T, lets see the tactics and game plan that will see off the opposition, sort out the deadball situations and put points where your mouth is.
As I said this is just MY opinion, too which i am entitled.
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Post by hooverfoxhat on Aug 22, 2011 20:00:10 GMT 1
Top post Can't argue with much, if any of that
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2011 20:35:03 GMT 1
Can't say i agree with everything, but some good discussion points made. To me our attacking strength lies in having two good wide men, which we have. Unfortunately if we play two out and out wingers, then we are left short in midfield. Gareth Bale type players don't exist in this League. Maybe we should play a holding midfielder, who sits in front of a back three, four across the middle utilising two out and out wingers, and a settled ( as you say) front two?
Agree with the deadball situation, no - one seems to know what is happening? Apart from someone having a go, we have no other solution.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2011 20:59:37 GMT 1
Early days and some strong points of view being expressed over these pages already. For me nothing has changed at the GM except for a few names. Jacobson is a very good left back and Gornell is without doubt a handfull upfront. Morgan I have admired for a number of years, and Hazell will do a job for us. So whats wrong.................. Mr Turners tactics, the same as last season, we have not mixed up selection for over 50 games. For 4-4-2......read 4-2-4, we will always be caught lacking in midfield whilst we play 2 wide players, who really want to be strikers(Wright, Ainsworth) I am not John Taylors biggest fan, but at least he will track back. Turners use of forwards, chopping and changing is not letting the players gel, give Morgan and Gornell 10 / 12 games together. Turners back room staff are all defenders, yet they dont know what their best back 4 are. too many changes too early will breed inconsistancy throughout the season. And please prove me wrong Mr Turner......Sharps is carrying an injury, he is a shadow of the player of last season, get it sorted now, or risk a lengthy lay off. Graham Turner may be a legend to many STFC fans, but Town fans are a fickle bunch, if we dont get it right and get it right soon, I can hear the calls for a head.....the potential is there, and roly has again put his hand in his pocket. So Mr T, lets see the tactics and game plan that will see off the opposition, sort out the deadball situations and put points where your mouth is. As I said this is just MY opinion, too which i am entitled. You want a settled back 4 but it sounds as though you want to remove Sharps. Havent the changes made so far revolved around Jacobsen's suspension and Regan's injury
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 22, 2011 21:03:24 GMT 1
The same as last season? I'd be more than happy with the same points haul...
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Post by mightyshrew on Aug 22, 2011 21:25:48 GMT 1
Agree with much of what he says, certainly in respect to Sharps, the guy isn't fit
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Aug 22, 2011 21:29:46 GMT 1
Same points haul would get us automatic virtually every season apart from last Same again will do for me
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Post by Bob Rickerton on Aug 22, 2011 21:33:52 GMT 1
Agree with much of what he says, certainly in respect to Sharps, the guy isn't fit After another slow start, I thought Sharps had really grown into the game by the end of it. He might be a little bit off his best at the moment, but I'd say he's well worth persevering with, as there's probably not a better centre back in the league when he's on form.
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onetommyb
Shropshire County League
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 63
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Post by onetommyb on Aug 22, 2011 21:50:10 GMT 1
Some interesting opinions - In response to yours here are mine. I like our tactics attacking with width and two attacking exciting pacey wingers, remember under Simpson when we were crying out for width and pace. Lewis Neal and Craig Disley out wide? Which would you rather? Mark Wright in my opinion does track back quite well, maybe not crunching into tackles but picking up runs and marking - always thought he helped Sadler very well. Changes to the back four, too many changes too early you say? We have played 4 games with the same back four, we hadn't won or kept a clean sheet, two changes of which one was enforced by injury and we win and keep our first clean sheet. Possibly it wasn't changed soon enough? I'm no medic but I don't think Sharps is carrying an injury, if he was surely Hazel would have played sat - he started last season slowly and improved to be as you say one of the best, same again please skipper! I agree with you on the set pieces.
Further in my opinion I believe we need to better our results from last season to get more points, so far D1-1 h to Plymouth, compare to promoted teams last season D-L-D-W (chesterfield, bury, wycombe, stevenage) D1-1 a at Burton, last season D0-0 L0-2 a at Oxford, last season L1-3 iirc W2-0 h to crewe, last season L0-1
Although the sequence of results may worry some - we have at least equalled last seasons results against those teams.
Therefore I'm pleased with our progress and honestly believe we will be promoted come may.
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Post by Shrewed on Aug 22, 2011 22:53:34 GMT 1
Same points haul would get us automatic virtually every season apart from last Same again will do for me Not sure where you get your statistics from but it the last 15 season only in three seasons has 3rd place club had less than 80 points. Got to agree with mollcollie that the team is definitely not strong enough in midfield. Even against Crewe during the second half we lost the battle in central midfield even when Crewe were reduced to 10 men. Eventually we could have easily conceded an equaliser which Crewe did not deserve but Wroe's goal put a gloss on the victory that was undeserved.
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Post by Fingers on Aug 22, 2011 23:00:59 GMT 1
After the crewe result we are actually up on last year's points tally.
I would also add that JT was at fault for the Plymouth goal.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2011 23:04:38 GMT 1
After the crewe result we are actually up on last year's points tally. I would also add that JT was at fault for the Plymouth goal. Er dont think so, did we not win 3 and draw our first 4 games, so we have half the points of this time last season!!
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Post by Fingers on Aug 22, 2011 23:16:31 GMT 1
After the crewe result we are actually up on last year's points tally. I would also add that JT was at fault for the Plymouth goal. Er dont think so, did we not win 3 and draw our first 4 games, so we have half the points of this time last season!! Against the same teams Downie: Dependant on who you place plymouth with we lost to Bury and Drew with Chesterfield and Wycombe Burton Draw / Draw Oxford Lose / Lose Crewe Lose / Win
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2011 1:12:49 GMT 1
'So whats wrong..................'
What do you mean whats wrong? We are 4 games in with a win, a loss, and 2 draws, and a win in the cup. 42 games remaining and most people dont even bother looking at the table untill 10 or 15 games. Stevenage were somewhere in the bottom half in Jan even. Although some of your points may be very valid ones, i just dont see how, at this point of the season, anyone can say theres anything 'wrong'
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Post by Shrewed on Aug 23, 2011 7:28:25 GMT 1
'So whats wrong..................' What do you mean whats wrong? We are 4 games in with a win, a loss, and 2 draws, and a win in the cup. 42 games remaining and most people dont even bother looking at the table untill 10 or 15 games. Stevenage were somewhere in the bottom half in Jan even. Although some of your points may be very valid ones, i just dont see how, at this point of the season, anyone can say theres anything 'wrong' Results have been to a certain extent what might of been predicted, the worrying thing is that so far we have struggled against teams that close us down quickly and don't allow us to play football as I have said before we have a good 1st division side but we will struggle to even make the playoffs. Other teams seem able to adapt their game plan unfortunately the Town is a TINA team, There Is No Alternative to the plan.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2011 7:42:55 GMT 1
Have I been asleep and woken up in October?
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Post by SeanBroseley on Aug 23, 2011 8:26:15 GMT 1
If Sharps' season shapes up to be like Coughlan's last season we could drain goals and points
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Post by camdenshrew on Aug 23, 2011 9:23:46 GMT 1
I think there is something in the point mollcollie makes about tactics. We seem to lack any real alternative to a 4-4-2 and this sometimes gets exposed especially against a team which presses us.
I think being able to play a 4-2-3-1 system - with either Gornell or Morgan as the one out-and-out striker and somebody like Wright or Leslie playing in the hole - might help when this happens.
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Aug 23, 2011 9:26:20 GMT 1
IMO Sharps started last season off in much the same way looking alittle of the pace in the early games, but by september was a rock and managed to keep that form for the rest of the season. I have no doubt he will do the same again.
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Post by Hippo on Aug 23, 2011 11:26:24 GMT 1
Have I been asleep and woken up in October? Yes. Numerous times.
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limacharli
Midland League Division Two
And in comes Sobers bowling from the Gasworks end!!
Posts: 222
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Post by limacharli on Aug 23, 2011 11:30:12 GMT 1
Was it only me that noticed that the Skipper played a lot better on Saturday with Shane playing alongside him ? Jacobsen put in a quality shift and thought the pairing of Macca and Wroe in midfield added a new dimension to our game . Jermain popping up front to support Wroe sterling run was a suprise to the Gaffer but it worked so give Grandison a go up the front and be prepared to be amazed is my thought ( Old enough to remember Alf Wood going from defence to ace striker ) What have we got to loose?
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Post by jonbond on Aug 23, 2011 12:11:08 GMT 1
Ive been very unconvinced by Hazel in the first few games despite him receiving a good press. He gave away the goal v Plymouth with a poor clearance, and him and Sharps didn't seem to play as a partnership apart from at Derby. They also had the odd verbal disagreement too. Good call by GT to go back to last years pairing, you could tell Sharps was alot happier Perhaps Hazel may be better at RB?
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Post by tvor on Aug 23, 2011 12:17:06 GMT 1
He gave away the goal v Plymouth with a poor clearance That was Regan.
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Post by tvor on Aug 23, 2011 12:18:20 GMT 1
Was it only me that noticed that the Skipper played a lot better on Saturday with Shane playing alongside him ? It's no coincidence that the switch from left sided centre back to right sided centre back against Crewe saw a much better performance from Ian Sharps. He never really looked comfortable playing left sided centre back.
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Post by tvor on Aug 23, 2011 12:18:42 GMT 1
Have I been asleep and woken up in October?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2011 12:31:22 GMT 1
Same points haul would get us automatic virtually every season apart from last Same again will do for me Not sure where you get your statistics from but it the last 15 season only in three seasons has 3rd place club had less than 80 points. Got to agree with mollcollie that the team is definitely not strong enough in midfield. Even against Crewe during the second half we lost the battle in central midfield even when Crewe were reduced to 10 men. Eventually we could have easily conceded an equaliser which Crewe did not deserve but Wroe's goal put a gloss on the victory that was undeserved. Im amazed anyone thinks it wasnt a deserved victory. No denying the second goal would have paper over some of the cracks of the second half performance but overall we deserved to win It is very strange that people keep complaining that we are no different to last season, yet last season we missed out on automatic promotion by 1 point so why should we want to see major changes? Of course we want to see improvement but Im not sure there needs to be any major overhaul. Additionally most fans moan about the lack of continuity in the summer so why then do we want to see mass changes in personnel and tactics However I do agree with some of the comments, mainly: We have no Plan B We have no settled strike partnership Midfield is likely to be a weak link I guess that is the same as last season and with L2 being a better standard IMO, for that I dont expect us to be challenging for auto's but certainly think we will be around the play-offs
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Post by filmcrewshrew on Aug 23, 2011 13:00:14 GMT 1
What a pointless thread, disecting the team when we are 4 games in, madness! As Ant says three or four months in and we are bottom half then start critising but geez guys this is all a bit prem, if someone said to you at beginning of August - 1 win, 2 draws, 1 defeat and a win in cup at Derby after 3 weeks in, honestly what would you have said
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2011 13:11:57 GMT 1
Maybe a result of higher expectations since moving to the new ground but I think quite a few people had written off the squad even before a ball was kicked in anger. And for whatever reason, a minority seem to want GT to fail. Certainly 10/12 games in is a reasonable time to make a first assessment and even then only cautiously. Tonight's game is a nice distraction from the league but another good opportunity for the team to take shape.............looking forward to it
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Post by Shrewed on Aug 23, 2011 14:57:42 GMT 1
Not sure where you get your statistics from but it the last 15 season only in three seasons has 3rd place club had less than 80 points. Got to agree with mollcollie that the team is definitely not strong enough in midfield. Even against Crewe during the second half we lost the battle in central midfield even when Crewe were reduced to 10 men. Eventually we could have easily conceded an equaliser which Crewe did not deserve but Wroe's goal put a gloss on the victory that was undeserved. Im amazed anyone thinks it wasnt a deserved victory. No denying the second goal would have paper over some of the cracks of the second half performance but overall we deserved to win It is very strange that people keep complaining that we are no different to last season, yet last season we missed out on automatic promotion by 1 point so why should we want to see major changes? Of course we want to see improvement but Im not sure there needs to be any major overhaul. Additionally most fans moan about the lack of continuity in the summer so why then do we want to see mass changes in personnel and tactics However I do agree with some of the comments, mainly: We have no Plan B We have no settled strike partnership Midfield is likely to be a weak link I guess that is the same as last season and with L2 being a better standard IMO, for that I dont expect us to be challenging for auto's but certainly think we will be around the play-offs Paul I am not sure who has said we didn't deserve to win. Last season was a weak league, based on the number of points the top teams got, I expect a team to needs to get about 84 points for automatic and 72 for a play off place. Therefore we do need to improve to get automatic promotion. Personally I do not think we are stronger in any of the 4 changes than we were during the second half of the season in fact the squad is considerably weaker. I suspect all of the grim reapers are with your 3 areas of concern.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2011 15:12:02 GMT 1
Ed you said, "but Wroe's goal put a gloss on the victory that was undeserved". I that as you saying we did not deserve to win?
Unfortunately Paul there will always be 'fans' who want managers to fail. I havent met anyone who will admit this but its amazing how vocal they are when things go bad but are nowhere to be seen in the good times.
- Theres the ones who just have a dislike of a certain manager - Theres the ones who used to back the previous manager and were proven wrong so will then instantly dislike the next manager - Theres the ones who backed a specific manager and think everyone is useless compared to him - And of course theres the ones who just moan at every manager because its their nature
Of course I should stress that just because someone is criticising a manager, it does not make him a bad fan or want him to fail. Theres plenty of people who have made critical comments about Turner and they are entirely justified, they raise those concerns because they want STFC to do well. However in my opinion there are people out there who criticse a manager simply for personal and vindictive reasons and in there eyes they will never do right.
Of course the danger for those individuals is that they do raise valid and well thought out concerns at times but because of their reputation they are not always taken seriously and instead its the usual "oh he's moaning again". I must admit that Im guilty of doing that towards certain individuals on this board.
What annoys me is that if you defend a manager you apparently think that the sun shines out of his backside and he can do no wrong. I recognise that Turner isnt perfect, he has made a number of mistakes and worryingly is still not managing to rectify some of the problems of last season. However I do recognise that he's done a lot of good for this club in his recent spell, certain people will not do the same
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