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Post by northwestman on Aug 18, 2011 18:12:07 GMT 1
Well as an exercise in public relations, RW need look no further than the Burton chairman who last saturday time out to go round every hospitality box thanking people for their support and showing genuine interest in fans opinions.
In our box was the father of the club physio who was celebrating his 50th birthday with his family. The Burton chairman personally presented him with a bottle of champagne.
This is the sort of rapport between members of the Board and fans that is simply non existent at the Greenhous Meadow.
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Post by shrewsace on Aug 18, 2011 18:52:41 GMT 1
It is a business and if it wants to retain it's customer base it needs to become more professional in the services it provides. Who said football's lost its magic, eh? This makes following footbal sound about about as exciting as a visit to a customer service advisor at the Nat West. Unfortunately, it's also an approach the club have embraced with their 'Q and A' for the better class of fan. I've read that post about 'life choices', but I don't agree with it. Some fans probably spend the majority of their disposable income on supporting the Town, to suggest they're less worthy of an audience with the manager because their means don't stretch to Sovereign membership is an utter disgrace. Other people would rather watch from the South or West Stand as they prefer the matchday experience and have no desire to watch from an executive box. The message it sends out is 'we don't value loyalty, commitment and passion, we value the amount of money you're able to put directly into our coffers'. Perhaps they'll live to regret this approach in years to come if we hit financial or footballing hard times and find they've p**sed away all our good will.
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Post by markglasgow on Aug 18, 2011 20:24:24 GMT 1
Reading this thread has really depressed me. Given it was kicked off by our resident Grim Reaper I shouldn't be surprised. Lots of good points made here however. It is vital, that as supporters we never become complacent over the happenings at our football club.
A lot of what has been written is based on purely on perception. The criticism of our chairman isn't backed up by first hand accounts and to claim that he cares little for the fans without having anything solid to back this up is pretty naive. Sure the Burton chairman may come across as a decent bloke during a one off meeting. Sure the new bloke at QPR might give a decent interview but what does any of this mean to us here? Should Roland start kissing babies or be a media Whore to make him a better chairman? Our club has made great strides forward, especially over the last 5 years and Roland must take most of the credit for this.
The 'pricing issue' has made me chuckle quite a bit over the last month or so. Some folk want to come and watch footy at the meadow for considerably less than the average prices we currently charge. Some folk want to come and watch a premiership side in the cup for £5-10. Some of these same folk will then moan about the strength of the squad and the failure to land big money targets during the summer. So what's it to be? Value for money or a investment in the playing squad. If you think we can do both speak to a Bradford fan...
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Post by Shrewed on Aug 18, 2011 20:49:54 GMT 1
Mark, the real question is not the complacency of the fans, but more the complacency of the club that appears to think that fans will keep coming regardless of the Saturday afternoon experience. You only need to look at the reduction of approximately 10% in the season ticket this year and ask why after 4 years of increased attendances have they started to fall.
The club can bury it's head in the sand and say it's all down to the economy, rather than discussing with all fans how they can improve the match day experience for all fans.
You may feel this is all down to the Grim Reaper but you'd be surprised how many fans with many years of support are becoming more and more frustrated with the club. All included myself want the club to succeed we have invested a lot of time supporting the club.
Out of interest what would you consider a reasonable attendance on Tuesday night.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2011 21:13:08 GMT 1
Mark, the real question is not the complacency of the fans, but more the complacency of the club that appears to think that fans will keep coming regardless of the Saturday afternoon experience. You only need to look at the reduction of approximately 10% in the season ticket this year and ask why after 4 years of increased attendances have they started to fall. The club can bury it's head in the sand and say it's all down to the economy, rather than discussing with all fans how they can improve the match day experience for all fans. You may feel this is all down to the Grim Reaper but you'd be surprised how many fans with many years of support are becoming more and more frustrated with the club. All included myself want the club to succeed we have invested a lot of time supporting the club. Out of interest what would you consider a reasonable attendance on Tuesday night. Good post
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Post by Stowmarket Shrew on Aug 18, 2011 21:41:24 GMT 1
I'll never lose interest..................but......................I'm losing interest if that makes sense!!
Crewe sat will be my first game of the season and probably my last for some months - priorities have changed for me with two young kids, the distance and the costs involved in a 400 mile round trip etc. It's simply not an option to make the minimum 10 games a season I've managed most years since 1989. I'm pretty sure this season will see me attending the least games ever. It's difficult to pin it on any one thing, but it's definitely a combination of a lot of factors that are leading me to listen to more games on Shrews World rather than attend. Fingers crossed for some decent performances over the coming weeks and I can get my mojo back.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2011 21:41:56 GMT 1
Reading this thread has really depressed me. Of course it has - you're one of the biggest happy clappers on this messageboard. The club could pelt its own supporters with eggs and you'd still defend them.
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Post by markglasgow on Aug 18, 2011 22:12:08 GMT 1
Mark, the real question is not the complacency of the fans, but more the complacency of the club that appears to think that fans will keep coming regardless of the Saturday afternoon experience. You only need to look at the reduction of approximately 10% in the season ticket this year and ask why after 4 years of increased attendances have they started to fall. The club can bury it's head in the sand and say it's all down to the economy, rather than discussing with all fans how they can improve the match day experience for all fans. You may feel this is all down to the Grim Reaper but you'd be surprised how many fans with many years of support are becoming more and more frustrated with the club. All included myself want the club to succeed we have invested a lot of time supporting the club. Out of interest what would you consider a reasonable attendance on Tuesday night. Sorry Ed but perhaps it's time for a reality check. This club has progressed and expanded in all aspects over last 4-5 years. You pinpoint a 10% drop in season tickets this season, but neglect to mention the 100% increase we've maintained since we moved to the new stadium. To suggest that the current economic climate will not affect finances at this football club is naive. Can wholly agree that the club should take into account the fans views on enhancing the match day 'experience'. Just wonder if the official fan groups are asked for their input? Again we make the misguided assumption that they are not. As for Tuesday Ed, I hope for a decent turn out. After the cracking win at Derby the lads certainly deserve good backing. Cannot expect many from Swansea to travel as they will have their sights set on more exotic locations. Would imagine that anything over 3500 would be a good effort. Anyone expecting anything more should look to some of the attendances in the 2nd round last season. Leyton Orient 0 – 2 West Bromwich Albion 2,349 Tranmere Rovers 1 – 3 Swansea City 2,450 Crewe Alexandra 0 – 0 Ipswich Town 3,309 Bradford City 1 – 1 Preston North End 4,221 Hartlepool United 0 – 3 Wigan Athletic 3,196
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Post by markglasgow on Aug 18, 2011 22:22:04 GMT 1
Reading this thread has really depressed me. Of course it has - you're one of the biggest happy clappers on this messageboard. The club could pelt its own supporters with eggs and you'd still defend them. If you want to describe me as a 'happy clapper' (obviously your new favourite term) then how could I describe you? Why would a football club pelt it's own supporters with eggs? Why would I defend a football club that pelts it's own supporters with eggs? Why am I even responding to your poorly thought out post? Eggs indeed.... Jesus Christ!!. Another pearl of wisdom Crippen?
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Post by Shrewed on Aug 18, 2011 22:42:08 GMT 1
Mark, you are right attendances have increased since the move to the new ground, but let's use accurate figures the last season at the Gay Meadow the average attendances were 4729 compared with last season's 5875 an increase of less than 25% not 100%.
Last season against Charlton the attendance was 3700 surely anything less would not indicate a strong backing for the club.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2011 22:58:27 GMT 1
Good post from markglasgow. What do we need or expect from the club. Personally i'm quite happy, i get a supporters bus from Bayston Hill (there and back) have walked from Sainsburys to the ground along the track, thistles and all, no problem. Not really bothered about the screens as i'm too busy chatting or getting food/drink, and, surprisingly , can see the reason for the famous gate. I know that sometimes its ill-used by over reactive stewards but its purpose is for our safety.
Thats me, and i know that a lot of these points affect those who are older or not as agile . The screens are a matter of personal taste, but the gate, for me, is a good idea. The first time someone gets clouted by a yobbo from the opposing team's fans i,m sure the cry will be " why was the gate left open". My match day experience enjoyment level revolves around one factor, did we win or lose, as simple as that. Maybe my years of supporting the club has hardened me somewhat. I don't expect a lot so do not have high expectation levels. Walking through the narrows, queing for half an hour to enter a ground with no cover from rain which literally p**ses down, drinking shamrock tea and having the smell of stale urine waft gently in the evening breeze was my "match day experience". There are still problems with ticket purchasing and pricing but is this a problem that just STFC suffers? no. This is a perennial problem that may be with us for some time. Its been a thorn in a supporters side for time immemorial, was not solved during our time at the Meadow and persists even now. The answer maybe is to vote with our feet, but so few would take this action that the club obviously thinks that it can carry on regardless. Many will not agree with these points and to an extent i can see why, but they are purely personal. There are a lot of good things about the new ground which we forget. Be interesting for someone to post on the plus points.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2011 8:16:44 GMT 1
From my view point, it's purely a change in personal circumstances that has changed my attitude to following STFC. Family/other interests/personal goals etc have had a massive bearing on my choice not to retain my season ticket this year for the first time in around 17 years.
In terms of expense - this is a big factor too, but mainly due to traveling costs. Whether the ticket costs £14 or £17 doesn't bother me, it's the cost of the diesel to get me there. The current economic climate is definitely impacting on the number of fans at football, make no doubt about it.
I've always thought fans will come and go depending on changes in lifestyle. The important thing is that the fans of tomorrow are being attracted. The continued strong showing in the family enclosure (best family club in league 2 for the past couple of seasons?), the work of Martin James in the community and the fact that the Junior blues/shrews are about to be re-launched proves that.
In terms of increased attendances at New Meadow vs Gay Meadow, what has been the increase in season tickets at the new ground?
Also, I'd be interested to know the average attendances at Gay Meadow for the past 4 seasons vs. those at New Meadow, I think using the final season at Gay Meadow as a yard stick skews the results as many extra fans poured through the gates to pay their last respects.
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Post by Pilch on Aug 19, 2011 9:21:43 GMT 1
Deep down Phil you might be using the fuel as an excuse It's something that you can't blame the club you love for and an easy excuse not to go Fact is you may be falling out of love with the club
You are already having an affair with the arse ;-)
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Post by Ned on Aug 19, 2011 9:41:28 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2011 12:55:15 GMT 1
Mark, you are right attendances have increased since the move to the new ground, but let's use accurate figures the last season at the Gay Meadow the average attendances were 4729 compared with last season's 5875 an increase of less than 25% not 100%. Last season against Charlton the attendance was 3700 surely anything less would not indicate a strong backing for the club. and let's not use the last season at GM as the baseline for GM attendances before we moved because the crowds were untypically high then because it was just that.......................... the last season ever at the Gay Meadow.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2011 14:09:29 GMT 1
An interesting debate, but in my view the relationship between club and fan has remained unaltered since I started watching the team in 1969.
The facilities in 1969 were relatively unchanged until the demolition of the ground, ie restricted views, little protection from the elements in parts of the ground. Lets not forgot that for a period of time we were caged in by the club when fencing was erected!!!!
I can remember the club boasting that the toilets in the corner by the scoreboard - NOW HAD A ROOF - wow....what progress.
Surely no one can seriously say that their match day experience is worse at the new Meadow. From the minute you walk through the gates and look at the ground, its impressive and makes me proud to be a fan. The views from any position in any stand are fantastic. The facilities are safe and secure. The toilets are a 100% improvement over the old ground and a playing surface as good as any in the land. We have a stadium that attracts international football for both men and women, and a facility to host world famous pop stars.
That is not to say that everything is perfect, and comments about faulty TVs etc are valid. But it is not the case that the clubs attitude to fans has changed since the move, but some of the points raised in this thread need some clarity . for example
The Gates being closed - this is simple common sense. If you really want to walk directly into opposing fans with your wife and children after a contentious game, then you need a reality check.
The Chairman. Without Roland the club would not be in the positive position it is in. Clubs like Rotherham and Bristol Rovers who have no home are examples of poor leadership by Directors. Be careful what you wish for!!!
Ticket prices - If the price of friendly games is too high, please do not attend - simples!! If enough fans boycott these games then the club will get the message - otherwise the law of supply and demand will dictate.
The Badge - I have to say that this subject is getting really boring. If you look at the clubs history there have been some real shockers in terms of badge design and the current one is significantly more professional than some of its predecessors. The Lion is here to stay so lets all move on.
Away fans - I have real concerns that there will one day be a real clash of fans. The club should bite the bullet and close down completely the end section in the corner and put the fanatical home fans in the Salop stand where they should be in the first place. There is a minority of real 'd...heads' who simply come to goat the away fans in the corner - the club should simply kick these guys out of the ground.
Fans Forums - As stated earlier the Sovereign members are perfectly entitled to perks over and above the standard fan, just as Season ticket holders, they pay upfront substantially more in cash towards the club. I have no issue with this whatsoever. However something open to other fan groups would be welcome.
Attendances - I can remember when we had 400 Season Ticket holders in total, so to say that crowds have not increased substantially at the New Meadow is wide of the mark. Having said that I can remember 9000 at the Gay Meadow for a Shropshire Senior Cup final in the early 1970;s. Overall, increased numbers have arrived at the new ground due to the better match day experience.
Cost - No question we are all feeling the pinch and we all look for maximum value for money. There are many times that I question the 200 mile round trip to see the Shrews and since the recession I question every season whether I will renew by Season ticket. However the recession is not the club or Chairmans fault they are running a business in difficult times in just the same way that I run my business. Times are tough and more imagination is probably needed by football clubs - just look at Hartlepool Utds season ticket initiative. But lets not all blame the club.
In conclusion I think we are all frustrated at the years spent in League Two. We are all envious of the Wycombes of this world that get promoted with seeming less resources than STFC, but that is what football is all about in the lower leagues. But it is a credit to the club that a major bone of contention is that satellite TV does'nt work under one of the stands!!
Lets remain positive.
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Post by ssshrew on Aug 19, 2011 14:19:09 GMT 1
Have to agree with this post. However, possibly using Wycombe as the example is just not quite the most tactful one this season!!!!!! The reason I am envious of Wycombe this year has nothing to do with their seemingly less resources more to do with their sheer good luck at a wrong decision made last season!!!!
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Post by Shrewed on Aug 19, 2011 14:37:03 GMT 1
Mark, you are right attendances have increased since the move to the new ground, but let's use accurate figures the last season at the Gay Meadow the average attendances were 4729 compared with last season's 5875 an increase of less than 25% not 100%. Last season against Charlton the attendance was 3700 surely anything less would not indicate a strong backing for the club. and let's not use the last season at GM as the baseline for GM attendances before we moved because the crowds were untypically high then because it was just that.......................... the last season ever at the Gay Meadow. Paul let's not use any season to compare attendances last year the average attendance was 400 up on the previous season because we were in the mix right up to the last game. The one thing for sure is that attendances are not 100% higher as Mark claimed. It is also difficult to compare attendances because we no longer know an accurate attendance as season ticket holders are counted whether they attend or not. Yes the Gay meadow had seen better times but it was our ground and it wasn't a carbon copy of many others in the league. Did I prefer the match day experience standing in the pouring rain on the Wakeman end to being undercover in the south stand yes I did and I suspect I am not alone. I believe the fans were much more united back at the Gay Meadow that they have ever been at oteley road.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2011 15:00:49 GMT 1
I believe the fans were much more united back at the Gay Meadow that they have ever been at oteley road. Interesting quote but very debatable I can recall plenty of moaning/bickering between fans at the Gay Meadow and there were many different cliques and areas of the ground that wouldnt get on with other areas of the ground. I dont see that at the new ground with the exception of sometimes people not liking people in Block 19 and in the past there was friction between South Stand and West Stand when the Ultra's were about.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2011 15:02:32 GMT 1
I am sure Mark can speak for himself but to me it reads like he was talking about season ticket sales so his 100 per cent figure is perfectly reasonable. Some big crowds did swell the average attendances towards the end of last season but throughout the season the running average did not dip below 5.5k which is pretty much where it has been since we moved. Previous to the unique last season at GM, our attendances were 4250 and 3656 so you will have problems convincing people that attendances have not risen by more than 25%. This thread highlights some valid issues between fans and club but that does not mean that everything is wrong and as mortgagehound details so well, it does not mean that similar/worse issues did not happen in the good old days at Gay Meadow
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Post by Pilch on Aug 19, 2011 15:19:48 GMT 1
An interesting debate, but in my view the relationship between club and fan has remained unaltered since I started watching the team in 1969. The facilities in 1969 were relatively unchanged until the demolition of the ground, ie restricted views, little protection from the elements in parts of the ground. Lets not forgot that for a period of time we were caged in by the club when fencing was erected!!!! I can remember the club boasting that the toilets in the corner by the scoreboard - NOW HAD A ROOF - wow....what progress. Surely no one can seriously say that their match day experience is worse at the new Meadow. From the minute you walk through the gates and look at the ground, its impressive and makes me proud to be a fan. The views from any position in any stand are fantastic. The facilities are safe and secure. The toilets are a 100% improvement over the old ground and a playing surface as good as any in the land. We have a stadium that attracts international football for both men and women, and a facility to host world famous pop stars. That is not to say that everything is perfect, and comments about faulty TVs etc are valid. But it is not the case that the clubs attitude to fans has changed since the move, but some of the points raised in this thread need some clarity . for example The Gates being closed - this is simple common sense. If you really want to walk directly into opposing fans with your wife and children after a contentious game, then you need a reality check. The Chairman. Without Roland the club would not be in the positive position it is in. Clubs like Rotherham and Bristol Rovers who have no home are examples of poor leadership by Directors. Be careful what you wish for!!! Ticket prices - If the price of friendly games is too high, please do not attend - simples!! If enough fans boycott these games then the club will get the message - otherwise the law of supply and demand will dictate. The Badge - I have to say that this subject is getting really boring. If you look at the clubs history there have been some real shockers in terms of badge design and the current one is significantly more professional than some of its predecessors. The Lion is here to stay so lets all move on. Away fans - I have real concerns that there will one day be a real clash of fans. The club should bite the bullet and close down completely the end section in the corner and put the fanatical home fans in the Salop stand where they should be in the first place. There is a minority of real 'd...heads' who simply come to goat the away fans in the corner - the club should simply kick these guys out of the ground. Fans Forums - As stated earlier the Sovereign members are perfectly entitled to perks over and above the standard fan, just as Season ticket holders, they pay upfront substantially more in cash towards the club. I have no issue with this whatsoever. However something open to other fan groups would be welcome. Attendances - I can remember when we had 400 Season Ticket holders in total, so to say that crowds have not increased substantially at the New Meadow is wide of the mark. Having said that I can remember 9000 at the Gay Meadow for a Shropshire Senior Cup final in the early 1970;s. Overall, increased numbers have arrived at the new ground due to the better match day experience. Cost - No question we are all feeling the pinch and we all look for maximum value for money. There are many times that I question the 200 mile round trip to see the Shrews and since the recession I question every season whether I will renew by Season ticket. However the recession is not the club or Chairmans fault they are running a business in difficult times in just the same way that I run my business. Times are tough and more imagination is probably needed by football clubs - just look at Hartlepool Utds season ticket initiative. But lets not all blame the club. In conclusion I think we are all frustrated at the years spent in League Two. We are all envious of the Wycombes of this world that get promoted with seeming less resources than STFC, but that is what football is all about in the lower leagues. But it is a credit to the club that a major bone of contention is that satellite TV does'nt work under one of the stands!! Lets remain positive. its a good post but you forget one point market research find out what customers want before giving them a take it or leave it option the gate is in the wrong place the friendly prices were not friendly the badge in the opinion of the majority of fans could still have been something incorporating what they all wanted, the loggerheads it will remain for a while yet but i guess you know as well as me it will revert back to the old favourite i can tell from your post you probably don't have to check the balance before deciding on whether to attend a game or not but a lot do i want to enjoy my matchday experience or at least some of it i dont want to go home annoyed at everything
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2011 15:53:37 GMT 1
i can tell from your post you probably don't have to check the balance before deciding on whether to attend a game or not but a lot do Typical comment from someone who has no idea what it is like to run your own business
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