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Post by Shrewed on Aug 18, 2011 8:06:48 GMT 1
It appears that over maybe the last six months many long standing fans have begun to feel alienated by the club. The honeymoon at the GM is over and although divorce proceeding haven't begun a period of mistrust has.
What has caused this situation to arise?
Whose fault is it?
What can be done to save the relationship?
My view is that club has failed to realise that as customers we have a choice how we spend our ever decreasing spare money. There may not be other football but there are alternative ways to spend our Saturday afternoon.
As fans we should all be grateful for what Roland has done for the club over the years, but now I feel he has lost the empathy he had for the fans.
The club needs to start listening to the fan base as a whole rather than just the inner circle. It is a business and if it wants to retain it's customer base it needs to become more professional in the services it provides.
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Post by Lord Ha Ha on Aug 18, 2011 11:04:34 GMT 1
Maybe seen as trivual in some peoples eyes but the club emblem just about high lights the disregard the club have for the fan base since moving to the new ground.
Rather than consult the fans on changing it they have left the decision to some lazy graphic artist who copied and pasted a very poor picture of a clip art lion in his tea break for submission to the board. It was then sadly green lighted by some corporate twonk whose decision went on to deface every subsequent shrewsbury town shirt we've seen since.
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Aug 18, 2011 11:07:35 GMT 1
'It's all about the money'
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Post by Pilch on Aug 18, 2011 11:21:35 GMT 1
for quite a few seasons now, even as far back as the great escape, we've had a good reason to keep going whether it be a promotion push or relegation struggle there have been maybe a couple of seasons where there was not a lot to play for before the end of the season worst season was maybe quinnys start back in the league what a disaster it will be if we have one of those seasons this season lets hope not but they better name turner in the 10 legends sooner rather than later
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Aug 18, 2011 11:26:11 GMT 1
In my view
The change to a more buisness orientated company (football club) did save the club... however there seems to be this feeling that we should be happy with our lot just because of this. I went to plenty of fans reps meetings(new and old ground) where people raised issues and the Chairman seemed genuinely perterbed that anyone had the audacity to moan about anything at the new ground.... so does this feeling come from the top?
The club badge change anyoed a lot of people, and the match day niggles which are commented on time and time again with little change or action on the clubs behalf start to grind.
Off the top of my head the main issues raised time and again - lack supporters bar, the bloody gates around the stadium (which most clubs live without) the lack of action on some formal pedestrian access from Otely Road, the lack of action to sort out Super Blues Way, the crappy TVs all around the stadium which hardely work, the hard work the Trust had geting STFC to engage on the Concourse project initally, ticekt Price issues whihc are IMO prioced slightly too high, lack of cash turn stiles (again which most clubs have), reduction of the Travel Plan to a services which could barley be described as efficent, the stupid £2 match day increase... counter productive much, honestly how much extra per week does that make the club vs how many people it puts off actually going to the game on a whim?) - There is more a lot more niggles about a lot of things...
The club however when challenged about most of these things, can trot out a reason why something cant be done, some fair, some covered by the "comes out of the match day budget"> No one can say if thats the case or not I guess, but feels hollow when that the responce 99% of the time?
Add to that the economic climate, I have a season ticekt this season but for the first time since the 90's im contemplaiting not bothering next season (for personal reasons I now have a young familey ect ect).
In terms of the fans/club relationship.... in my veiw for the first time since I have been going, I dont feel there is one (outside of the internal supporters groups or if you pay through the nose for a Soverign club membership). No fans reps meetings take place as they used to, which I always found to be useful. The chairman took the time to speak and theat was passed onto the fans... now since a couple of incidents we dont have them anymore (im not 100% sure why to be honest)... No real accountability to improve things other than the Q and A thing, which is great but its a very remote way of getting ideas and issues to the clubs front door.
I have no doubt that if an problem occers, you contact the club they would try to sort it ASAP... its not that proactive, why not get out there speak to the fans, organise some kind of even or meeting and find out what you can do to improve things for you main customers??? I dont know its what other buisnesses do?
Its a pretty rocky time for fans a the moment, and I have no doubt that the club is suffering economically too at the moment (how can it not with the reported/suggested falls in ST sales, soverign club members and coperate income), but by far the last option on the table should be to squeeze the fans/customers more... and its time they had a look and noted that the limit might have been reached for the moment?
Having said all of that the club do a hell of a lot of good things, I dont want the above to come off as all neagtive. Its just I feel like a lot that my connection to the club has, how can I put it.... Dulled... and im not the only one, Fanzine eds who were regulars week in week out now not going all that much, ASFC players who never missed a game now not renewed STs, and other long terms fans I know who have just had enough of the variety of reasons set out above...
It a really intresting debate, and ium sure a lot of people more in the know have much more they could say on matters?
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Post by hooverfoxhat on Aug 18, 2011 11:57:13 GMT 1
In my humble opinion the problems lie at the door of a man in charge who, if you listen to others seemingly/allegedly/apparently listens to peoples ideas/opinions etc and then takes no notice whatsoever as those same ideas/opinions he has asked for simply do not fall in line with his - I can probably think of at least 2 ex employees who were allegedly charged with tasks to carry out surveys on improvements etc and who are no longer with the club and it's not rocket science as to work out why.
Far too many very poor appointments that went as fast as they arrived and each probably with a nice settlement - maybe that's where the money is or has been haemorrhageing and maybe that's why we aren't as active in the transfer market as we'd like to be.
I think Eds' past surmising on certain issues regarding financial issues aren't that far wide of the mark
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Post by mattmw on Aug 18, 2011 12:09:54 GMT 1
I think " dulled" is a good expression to describe how I feel about the club at the moment. I still get my season ticket and go to the home league games, but don't feel quite as connected to the club as I used to.
I don't know a great deal about running a football club, but things I do know a bit about like merchandising, advertising and hospitality don't seem to be right at the club and when issues are raised you seem to get a slight ostrich approach to things where the club sticks it's head in the sand and hopes it will all go away. The same goes for trouble in the away end - same problems whenever there is a big away following but no change in trying to handle it by the club
Its almost feels like the club feels what ever they do about 5000 will turn up each match and buy the merchadise, cheer the team then go home so why bother trying to improve things
Clearly the club is a business and breaking even is important, but if it's considered just as a business you could argue it's not a very good one - at best about the 75th best football business in the country. You need something more to keep the fans coming in and at the moment there doesn't seem to be a willingness at the club to do that
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Post by Pilch on Aug 18, 2011 12:14:58 GMT 1
i did invite our chairman to experience a match from the point of view of an average fan i doubt he even got to see that offer even though i used the proper channels to send my request the only input we ever get is something at the end of each season similar to the queens speech and maybe the odd wave from the royal box maybe i should just shut up, hand over all my money and shout long live the king before my head rolls
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Post by constantinople on Aug 18, 2011 12:18:22 GMT 1
If we had won the first three League games, would anyone be moaning anywhere near as much?
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Post by Pilch on Aug 18, 2011 12:24:03 GMT 1
If we had won the first three League games, would anyone be moaning anywhere near as much? but we didn't and nothing can change that if they had reduced the prices for the swansea game would we be moaning as much ? now there is something they could have done but didn't
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2011 12:25:02 GMT 1
If we had won the first three League games, would anyone be moaning anywhere near as much? Thanks for that - would you mind not tarnishing this interesting thread with your banal nonsense? Happy clapper.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2011 12:39:25 GMT 1
I dont disagree with the tone of the thread. Clearly there is a lot of discontent amongst fans and I feel the same on some issues
One thing I would say and Ive said it before is that it isnt a new thing, many people claim that since the ground move the club has become all about the money but I remember there always used to be discontent over ticketing etc at the old place.
I do think questions have to be asked about RW and whilst he has done a lot of good work for the club I think its fair to say that in recent years he had made some odd decisions. The problem is that he (and the rest of the board) are very distant so we get very little communication or explanation behind these decisions. If they want to keep a low profile then thats fine, but they then cant complain if fans then speculate and question those decisions.
There is often a lot of talk from 'normal' fans that the club only care about the corporate fan but it is quite clear that there is a lot of discontent from corporate fans too. Since the ground move Ive heard some terrible stories on the non playing side and for a lot of them, it stems back to Roland.
I think the board have to realise two things:
Firstly is that the average fan has seen their matchday experience change completely since the Gay Meadow days and in quite a few people's opinion, its not for the better. And for that, the fans have to pay a lot more compared to at GM but are still witnessing L2 football
Secondly is on the corporate side is that people are not one big bank balance that can be drained for the benefit of STFC. People will only pay that sort of money if they feel that they are getting value for money which doesnt appear to be the case now.
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Post by Lord Ha Ha on Aug 18, 2011 12:40:19 GMT 1
If we had won the first three League games, would anyone be moaning anywhere near as much? If we had won the first three games it would merely have papered over the cracks that we are now talking about.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2011 12:40:31 GMT 1
If we had won the first three League games, would anyone be moaning anywhere near as much? Probably not as much but the point of discontent would still remain and has been for a long time
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2011 12:58:41 GMT 1
The club still seems to struggle with it's increased size since moving grounds. We have increased in size yes but that is no excuse for losing the personal touch with fans. The business staff revolving door in the first few years after moving from Gay Meadow was a bit of a disaster. It seems people are involved now who do have the club's interests at heart and in most cases at least you can see what they are doing/trying to do. However there is still lots of room for improvement. I am sick of hearing the excuse that the club is a business now because that should be a reason to improve customer satisfaction, not ignore it. The pricing policy for recent cup and friendly matches certainly requires some explanation or review.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2011 13:33:36 GMT 1
In my view The change to a more buisness orientated company (football club) did save the club... however there seems to be this feeling that we should be happy with our lot just because of this. I went to plenty of fans reps meetings(new and old ground) where people raised issues and the Chairman seemed genuinely perterbed that anyone had the audacity to moan about anything at the new ground.... so does this feeling come from the top? The club badge change anyoed a lot of people, and the match day niggles which are commented on time and time again with little change or action on the clubs behalf start to grind. Off the top of my head the main issues raised time and again - lack supporters bar, the bloody gates around the stadium (which most clubs live without) the lack of action on some formal pedestrian access from Otely Road, the lack of action to sort out Super Blues Way, the cr@ppy TVs all around the stadium which hardely work, the hard work the Trust had geting STFC to engage on the Concourse project initally, ticekt Price issues whihc are IMO prioced slightly too high, lack of cash turn stiles (again which most clubs have), reduction of the Travel Plan to a services which could barley be described as efficent, the stupid £2 match day increase... counter productive much, honestly how much extra per week does that make the club vs how many people it puts off actually going to the game on a whim?) - There is more a lot more niggles about a lot of things... The club however when challenged about most of these things, can trot out a reason why something cant be done, some fair, some covered by the "comes out of the match day budget"> No one can say if thats the case or not I guess, but feels hollow when that the responce 99% of the time? Add to that the economic climate, I have a season ticekt this season but for the first time since the 90's im contemplaiting not bothering next season (for personal reasons I now have a young familey ect ect). In terms of the fans/club relationship.... in my veiw for the first time since I have been going, I dont feel there is one (outside of the internal supporters groups or if you pay through the nose for a Soverign club membership). No fans reps meetings take place as they used to, which I always found to be useful. The chairman took the time to speak and theat was passed onto the fans... now since a couple of incidents we dont have them anymore (im not 100% sure why to be honest)... No real accountability to improve things other than the Q and A thing, which is great but its a very remote way of getting ideas and issues to the clubs front door. I have no doubt that if an problem occers, you contact the club they would try to sort it ASAP... its not that proactive, why not get out there speak to the fans, organise some kind of even or meeting and find out what you can do to improve things for you main customers??? I dont know its what other buisnesses do? Its a pretty rocky time for fans a the moment, and I have no doubt that the club is suffering economically too at the moment (how can it not with the reported/suggested falls in ST sales, soverign club members and coperate income), but by far the last option on the table should be to squeeze the fans/customers more... and its time they had a look and noted that the limit might have been reached for the moment? Having said all of that the club do a hell of a lot of good things, I dont want the above to come off as all neagtive. Its just I feel like a lot that my connection to the club has, how can I put it.... Dulled... and im not the only one, Fanzine eds who were regulars week in week out now not going all that much, ASFC players who never missed a game now not renewed STs, and other long terms fans I know who have just had enough of the variety of reasons set out above... It a really intresting debate, and ium sure a lot of people more in the know have much more they could say on matters? I think that covers all the points very well. Roland Wycherley has a total disregard to supporters, maybe not to their face but privately and to his friends and colleagues. No disputing he has done a lot of good for this club which we are all grateful for, but now his attitude about supporters and customers, present and potential is holding the club back.
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Post by hooverfoxhat on Aug 18, 2011 13:40:36 GMT 1
''Roland Wycherley has a total disregard to supporters, maybe not to their face but privately and to his friends and colleagues.
No disputing he has done a lot of good for this club which we are all grateful for, but now his attitude about supporters and customers, present and potential is holding the club back''
Well said Feedo and I second your comments about the good he has done for the club, that aside & as for your other thoughts, my feelings exactly for a couple of seasons now and I stand by my thoughts that as long as RW remains at the helm we, STFC, will remain a basement club.
Just listened to the new QPR chairman, Tony Fernandes, how refreshing to listen to a chairman speak like that.
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Post by DiglisShrew on Aug 18, 2011 14:13:42 GMT 1
Me thinks the Chairman will be ordering another filing cabinet !!
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 18, 2011 14:29:28 GMT 1
I really don’t think we can look to the chairman for the reason we are stuck in the 4th division. Two playoff finals and a semi suggests to me that he has done everything he can to provide the manager with what is required to get out of this division. As to why we fail at the final hurdle, no idea. But I won’t look to the chairman for the reason why.
The price never puts me off attending when I’m back but the match day experience isn’t the best. We had a clean slate, a real chance to make something out of the new stadium but it just seems to have passed us by. It’s as though the club think there work is done from just delivering the new stadium, a kind of ‘well what else do you need’ outlook. Couple that with the clubs crest (yeah, that again) you do really wonder just how much interest the club does have for the majority who attend. They do seem out of touch. You would think with the new stadium in place the club would look at that as the foundations to really move on, an amazing opportunity to build on something and make the stadium a great place to attend and watch football. I do wonder just how many supporters think we got things right with the move...
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Post by Pilch on Aug 18, 2011 15:00:56 GMT 1
I really don’t think we can look to the chairman for the reason we are stuck in the 4th division. but can we ? do happy fans rub off onto the players ? do unhappy fans get on the players back ? does any of this effect performances ?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2011 15:12:41 GMT 1
I really don’t think we can look to the chairman for the reason we are stuck in the 4th division. Two playoff finals and a semi suggests to me that he has done everything he can to provide the manager with what is required to get out of this division. As to why we fail at the final hurdle, no idea. But I won’t look to the chairman for the reason why. 100% agree. The Chairman has provided decent budgets for 3 managers since moving to the new stadium. Unfortunately those managers and their players have not been able to gain promotion, but on 2 occasions, have come very close.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2011 15:22:31 GMT 1
I really don’t think we can look to the chairman for the reason we are stuck in the 4th division. Two playoff finals and a semi suggests to me that he has done everything he can to provide the manager with what is required to get out of this division. As to why we fail at the final hurdle, no idea. But I won’t look to the chairman for the reason why. 100% agree. The Chairman has provided decent budgets for 3 managers since moving to the new stadium. Unfortunately those managers and their players have not been able to gain promotion, but on 2 occasions, have come very close. Whilst I dont think you can turn around and blame Roland for us being in L2, Id say he hasnt helped I always look at Simpsons first full season where by his own admission he was expecting a small budget but then Roland wakes up on the right side of bed, says he wants promotion, gives Simpson a lot of cash and we go and make quite a few signings. However in the January transfer window we decide to sell Tierney, we withdraw contract offers and we are forced to sign players on the cheap, the likes of Ashikodi, Chadwick, Riza etc. Why the sudden change of heart? Why say you want promotion but then change your approach halfway through the season? If your a manager Id imagine it must be very difficult to plan anything if your budget is based on your chairmans mood However then in his defence I do remember GP saying he was a great chairman to work for and GP was always able to get the players he wanted because Roland always backed him financially.
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Aug 18, 2011 15:26:03 GMT 1
Was that becase GP was an old school manager that liked to buidl things and get deals... cant recall any WOW singings under Peters? I may be wrong but his was a slow rebuild job following Quinn
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Post by hooverfoxhat on Aug 18, 2011 15:29:41 GMT 1
Yes Stutty and Paul - you are both right, funds have been made available and on three occasions we've come close but fallen at the final hurdle or two, I don't think funds have been made available to such an extent this time round, either that or we don't infact have the funds and based on that I don't think we'll progress.
Everything and everybody has a shelf life and Mr Wycherley is no different, for me it's time for a new impetus with fresh blood, fresh investment and fresh ideas - Thats not a slight on the current chairman and I reriterate that I am grateful for all he has done but sometimes change is as good as a rest and unfortunately there is no doubt that he has been guilty of some diabolical appointments that have surely cost the club money.
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Aug 18, 2011 15:39:30 GMT 1
Roland out then?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2011 15:41:03 GMT 1
Was that becase GP was an old school manager that liked to buidl things and get deals... cant recall any WOW singings under Peters? I may be wrong but his was a slow rebuild job following Quinn I think the term 'WOW Signing' did not exist until Rob Bickerton joined the club GP did pull off some transfer coups in signing players like Ben Davies, Drummond, Asamoah etc. These were all players who plenty of clubs were after, including teams from higher leagues. Whilst these were all free, I would imagine they would have been on very good wages in order to attract them here
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Aug 18, 2011 15:41:14 GMT 1
Off the pitch I somewhat feel things have gone a bit stale, if the club wants to be more business-like then fair enough but is the business side of things even doing that well?
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Post by Hatfieldshrew on Aug 18, 2011 15:46:52 GMT 1
If we had won the first three League games, would anyone be moaning anywhere near as much? A lot of the moans have been around for a while, and a lot of people have said give the club time/a chance. OK if we'd won the 1st 3 matches there would be a lot of happy people here, but the moans would still be there. Match prices - was before the season TV in concourses - Started last season No 1 to cover Whits - Started last season Updating the web site - Started last season Supporters bar - Since the move Car Parking - Since the move and now made worse by no P&R (travel plan) The list goes on, but they have been there. Now people are starting to put them together. The club say they are taking supporters issues in hand, but unless someone else does something about it, it seams to go from hand to bin. It's not a problem with the staff a they do a good job, you can only do what your allowed to do or say, it's more board room level that seams to be the problem. Yes the chairman has done a lot for the club and I feel still can do a good job for the club. But saying your listening to fans complaints and your going to some thing about it, then seaming to do nothing is in all honesty patronising. And people that feel patronised stop going in the end.
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Post by stfcfan87 on Aug 18, 2011 16:02:16 GMT 1
I think the points El Hurracan make are good and the issues are all off pitch things. There things that crop up regardless of how well we're doing or how much budget there is for players.
The annoying thing as pointed out is that these issues keep coming up all the time and fans are frequently told that there isn't anything that can be done. The cashless turnstiles is one issue for which does seem to be true - as apparently its in the council's health and safety licence that there should be no cash on the turnstiles - but that doesn't cover the £2 match day extra fee.
Just seems a lot of issues keep cropping up and nothing is done. I mean the tv's haven't worked properly in a number of the stands since at least the middle of last season - over 8 months later it's still the same case. When we first started at the new stadium I can recall that it was promoted that you could watch the afternoon matches with a beer before the Shrewsbury match started, but half the pictures are terrible or aren't working. That's just one pretty simple issue that could be sorted but for whatever reason isn't being.
The tanoy is another that's taken god knows how long to sort. The locked gate is frequently bought up as an issue but until there's a major incident nothing will get done, and the same with the fencing and the darkness on oteley road
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 18, 2011 17:13:49 GMT 1
I really don’t think we can look to the chairman for the reason we are stuck in the 4th division. but can we ? do happy fans rub off onto the players ? do unhappy fans get on the players back ? does any of this effect performances ? Well I appreciate that it’s been mentioned a fair few times but at the end of the day; for me the team was good enough to get promoted last season. I know people view this differently but for me we lost out to an awful referring decision. Based purely of footballing ability, we were good enough to be promoted. Wycombe did not score. They were not good enough to gain a point from us. We should have gone up. I just can’t look to put the blame on the chairman for that (and the subsequent surrender to Torquay in the semis which were no doubt a result of missing out)…
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