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Post by ambergambler on Aug 5, 2010 6:56:05 GMT 1
Well after watching the Coventry and Tranmere games I was very impressed with the style and passing on the deck game and the defence looked very solid and passed the ball out of defence .(no more hoof ball up to Hibbo).But and it is a But where and who will get us the 75+ goals we need to get out of this league?? Harold's best season 8 goals and will Ainsworth get 12 to 15? Bradders 10/12 and Benji 8/10 or will GT delve into the loan market?
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Post by Shrewed on Aug 5, 2010 7:58:46 GMT 1
Well after watching the Coventry and Tranmere games I was very impressed with the style and passing on the deck game and the defence looked very solid and passed the ball out of defence .(no more hoof ball up to Hibbo).But and it is a But where and who will get us the 75+ goals we need to get out of this league?? Harold's best season 8 goals and will Ainsworth get 12 to 15? Bradders 10/12 and Benji 8/10 or will GT delve into the loan market? I think there are a lot of fans out there that currently can't see where sufficient goals are going to come from to mount a serious challenge for automatic promotion.
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Post by welshdan on Aug 5, 2010 10:02:09 GMT 1
Agree with Hope2010, Goals look likely to be an issue based on the current squad and have been for a while.
The only hope is the new midfield additions can gel and provide more chances.
Although i wouldnt be suprised if GT is looking at the loan market for options upfront.
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Post by heavenlyshrew on Aug 5, 2010 10:10:22 GMT 1
You should listen to the Q&A tomorrow night and you will know where the goals are coming from this season
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Post by heavenlyshrew on Aug 5, 2010 10:12:24 GMT 1
Well after watching the Coventry and Tranmere games I was very impressed with the style and passing on the deck game and the defence looked very solid and passed the ball out of defence .(no more hoof ball up to Hibbo).But and it is a But where and who will get us the 75+ goals we need to get out of this league?? Harold's best season 8 goals and will Ainsworth get 12 to 15? Bradders 10/12 and Benji 8/10 or will GT delve into the loan market? I think there are a lot of fans out there that currently can't see where sufficient goals are going to come from to mount a serious challenge for automatic promotion. Alot of fans Ed can you back this up with facts? How many people have you spoke to on the matter?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2010 10:20:29 GMT 1
GT was asked this at the Q&A and said "everywhere". I am sure we would all feel more comfortable if there was a natural goalscorer in the squad but having said that, there is no reason why Robinson, Harrold, Bradshaw, the wingers, midfield players and center halves cant get the goals we need.
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Post by blum on Aug 5, 2010 10:26:41 GMT 1
GT was asked this at the Q&A and said "everywhere". I am sure we would all feel more comfortable if there was a natural goalscorer in the squad but having said that, there is no reason why Robinson, Harrold, Bradshaw, the wingers, midfield players and center halves cant get the goals we need. Have to agree with this I am sure GT knows what he is doing and is confident that we'll get goals... everything crossed
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Post by rockyshrew on Aug 5, 2010 10:30:29 GMT 1
I certainly wouldn't say no to getting a 20 goal a season striker in on loan, but I don't think what we have at the the club already are going to struggle to score that much. Harrold is a good target man who gets a few, from what I've seen in pre season Robinson is looking sharp again, all be it very poor with his finishing, but if starts scoring I think he'll get a some, as he seems a confidence player. Bradshaw is a raw talent, but looks to have a natural goalscoring ability, so will be good to use as a impact sub.
Personally I think Bright could come to the party this season, true he looked distinctly average most of last season, but there were signs towards the end, that he was getting used to English football and does look technically like a decent player. Not sure about Elder, but you live in hope! I think goals will come from the wide men as well, and possible a few from midfield with VDB looking like he could be a threat going forward.
If the goals are spread through the team, then the need for a 20 a season man isn't that crucial.
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Post by Myddleshrew on Aug 5, 2010 11:01:46 GMT 1
Kris Bright will get 15 plus
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Post by blood red shrews on Aug 5, 2010 12:07:27 GMT 1
I hope bright gets a fair crack this season as I said towards the end of last season he got a lot of stick without being given a fair chance apart from the last 10minutes of games, also I worked out minutes per goal and Bright was very very close to Hibbert, had he got another he would have taken over Hibbert by wuite a bit which aint bad from starting a couple of games in a whole season.
Think Benji could get a few from the middle add to that, Bradshaw who will be a handful as an impact sub plus Wright and Ainsworth who sound promising think there'll be a decent spread of goals. Which will be a lot better than last season relying on Hibbert who wasn't the most consistent scoring his goals in 2 gluts which meant there were 32games where we relied on others to score which was never very likely and rarely happened.
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Post by eggyshrew on Aug 5, 2010 12:27:15 GMT 1
We have Harrold, Bright, Robbo, Bradders, who should get to the 30+ mark between them you would like to think. Then we have loads of attacking midfielders in Leslie, VDB, Wright, Ainsworth, Neal, who could push towards the 20+ goal mark between them. I can see 10 - 20 goals coming from other areas like Sharps at set pieces 2 - 5 goals, Macca with 2 or 3, Disley 2 or 3, Mcalister who we no little about but has been mentioned as a box to box player so there could be 5+goals, Raven, Sadler, Dannyboysmith, could get a goal a season. So the answer for now has to be NO, all though i think 1 will come during the season.
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Post by Shrewed on Aug 5, 2010 15:36:21 GMT 1
We all hope that we will score the 70+ goals needed to gain promotion and none of us know how the team will gel. So the only realistic way to consider the likelihood that we will score sufficient goals is to look at the players records over their careers. If we look at the most likely starting line up tomorrow, and I would suspect the next few games, the front six record over the years have started 1115 league games and scored a total of 162 goals an average of roughly a goal every 7 games. For those that believe the defence will come to the aid of the front line the 4 likely defenders tomorrow have started 757 games and scored 24 goals, a goal roughly every 32 games. Using my crystal ball this suggest that during the season we are likely to score a grand total of 45 goals. Although this is a prediction it does make two points very clear we have got an experienced squad and we don't have a natural goal scorer.
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Post by heavenlyshrew on Aug 5, 2010 16:10:10 GMT 1
We all hope that we will score the 70+ goals needed to gain promotion and none of us know how the team will gel. So the only realistic way to consider the likelihood that we will score sufficient goals is to look at the players records over their careers. If we look at the most likely starting line up tomorrow, and I would suspect the next few games, the front six record over the years have started 1115 league games and scored a total of 162 goals an average of roughly a goal every 7 games. For those that believe the defence will come to the aid of the front line the 4 likely defenders tomorrow have started 757 games and scored 24 goals, a goal roughly every 32 games. Using my crystal ball this suggest that during the season we are likely to score a grand total of 45 goals. Although this is a prediction it does make two points very clear we have got an experienced squad and we don't have a natural goal scorer. Arse.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2010 16:18:11 GMT 1
This is a worn out hoary old discussion. As has been pointed out frequently, we did not have an abundant goalscoreer in 78-79. The goals flew in from everywhere. It is good to have one but it is not a prerequisite.
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Post by Shrewed on Aug 5, 2010 16:41:15 GMT 1
We all hope that we will score the 70+ goals needed to gain promotion and none of us know how the team will gel. So the only realistic way to consider the likelihood that we will score sufficient goals is to look at the players records over their careers. If we look at the most likely starting line up tomorrow, and I would suspect the next few games, the front six record over the years have started 1115 league games and scored a total of 162 goals an average of roughly a goal every 7 games. For those that believe the defence will come to the aid of the front line the 4 likely defenders tomorrow have started 757 games and scored 24 goals, a goal roughly every 32 games. Using my crystal ball this suggest that during the season we are likely to score a grand total of 45 goals. Although this is a prediction it does make two points very clear we have got an experienced squad and we don't have a natural goal scorer. Arse. Old Habit die hard. Dont they Martin
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Post by Shrewed on Aug 5, 2010 16:48:30 GMT 1
This is a worn out hoary old discussion. As has been pointed out frequently, we did not have an abundant goalscoreer in 78-79. The goals flew in from everywhere. It is good to have one but it is not a prerequisite. Yes in 78 - 79 we managed to score 61 goals it is rare that a club gets promoted with less than 70 goals never mind win the league. Remember also in 78 - 79 it was only 2 points for a win so a draw was relatively more valuable than today. In fact if it had been 3 points for a win we would have finished 4th. Both Watford and Swansea scored 20 more goals than us.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2010 16:51:05 GMT 1
We all hope that we will score the 70+ goals needed to gain promotion and none of us know how the team will gel. So the only realistic way to consider the likelihood that we will score sufficient goals is to look at the players records over their careers. If we look at the most likely starting line up tomorrow, and I would suspect the next few games, the front six record over the years have started 1115 league games and scored a total of 162 goals an average of roughly a goal every 7 games. For those that believe the defence will come to the aid of the front line the 4 likely defenders tomorrow have started 757 games and scored 24 goals, a goal roughly every 32 games. Using my crystal ball this suggest that during the season we are likely to score a grand total of 45 goals. Although this is a prediction it does make two points very clear we have got an experienced squad and we don't have a natural goal scorer. Tom Bradshaw has a career record of 3 goals per start so he should be good for about 130 this season - so if the others could just chip in with a couple each we should be okay.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Aug 5, 2010 17:14:35 GMT 1
If you look at Port Vale with Marc Richards and Justin Richards, 39 goals between them last season, you do worry.
That said, who says our strikers can't score more with better service.
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Post by Liam on Aug 5, 2010 17:18:15 GMT 1
If you look at Port Vale with Marc Richards and Justin Richards, 39 goals between them last season, you do worry. That said, who says our strikers can't score more with better service. I don't personally believe we have a 20 goal striker in the team, but I do think service was the main issue last season. You mention Marc Richards, and I think he's a good example. A very good player at this level on his day, but not outstanding. Does anyone think that if we'd had him instead of Hibbert in last season's team he'd have got 20? I doubt it, because he just wouldn't have had enough chances created for him.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2010 17:25:14 GMT 1
If you look at Port Vale with Marc Richards and Justin Richards, 39 goals between them last season, you do worry. But as a team Vale only scored 6 more than us last season. Bournemouth only scored 8 more, and finished 2nd. Cheltenham only scored 1 less and finished 3rd bottom.
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Post by nicko on Aug 5, 2010 17:37:49 GMT 1
This is a worn out hoary old discussion. As has been pointed out frequently, we did not have an abundant goalscoreer in 78-79. The goals flew in from everywhere. It is good to have one but it is not a prerequisite. Yes in 78 - 79 we managed to score 61 goals it is rare that a club gets promoted with less than 70 goals never mind win the league. Remember also in 78 - 79 it was only 2 points for a win so a draw was relatively more valuable than today. In fact if it had been 3 points for a win we would have finished 4th. Both Watford and Swansea scored 20 more goals than us. Yes and those goals were shared out evenly. Maguire 13 Atkins 12 Biggins 9 King 6 Turner 5 Tong 5 Chapman 4....and others that chipped in with the odd one or two. The point is we don't need a 20/30 goal season striker to get promoted and certainly not to get in the play-offs (06/07, 4 players got into double figures, Asamoah, Edwards, Davies and Cooke). 20/30 goal strikers don't guarantee promotion, Holt is a case in point and I remember Junior Agogo scoring 25 odd for Bristol Rovers a few seasons back and they finished in the bottom half of the 4th division. I'm not suggesting for one moment that the current squad can emulate the 78/79 squad, but I feel more confident that the current crop will chip in with more goals around the team than in the previous 2/3 seasons.
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Post by Shrewed on Aug 5, 2010 18:14:16 GMT 1
Yes and those goals were shared out evenly. Maguire 13 Atkins 12 Biggins 9 King 6 Turner 5 Tong 5 Chapman 4....and others that chipped in with the odd one or two. The point is we don't need a 20/30 goal season striker to get promoted and certainly not to get in the play-offs (06/07, 4 players got into double figures, Asamoah, Edwards, Davies and Cooke). 20/30 goal strikers don't guarantee promotion, Holt is a case in point and I remember Junior Agogo scoring 25 odd for Bristol Rovers a few seasons back and they finished in the bottom half of the 4th division. I'm not suggesting for one moment that the current squad can emulate the 78/79 squad, but I feel more confident that the current crop will chip in with more goals around the team than in the previous 2/3 seasons. Its great to look back but in 78/ 79 we drew 19 games, failed to score in 9 and only once got above 3 goals in one game. Many seasons a team would not get automatic promotion with 82. points.
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Post by nicko on Aug 5, 2010 18:24:31 GMT 1
Yes and those goals were shared out evenly. Maguire 13 Atkins 12 Biggins 9 King 6 Turner 5 Tong 5 Chapman 4....and others that chipped in with the odd one or two. The point is we don't need a 20/30 goal season striker to get promoted and certainly not to get in the play-offs (06/07, 4 players got into double figures, Asamoah, Edwards, Davies and Cooke). 20/30 goal strikers don't guarantee promotion, Holt is a case in point and I remember Junior Agogo scoring 25 odd for Bristol Rovers a few seasons back and they finished in the bottom half of the 4th division. I'm not suggesting for one moment that the current squad can emulate the 78/79 squad, but I feel more confident that the current crop will chip in with more goals around the team than in the previous 2/3 seasons. Its great to look back but in 78/ 79 we drew 19 games, failed to score in 9 and only once got above 3 goals in one game. Many seasons a team would not get automatic promotion with 82. points. The point is a team can get promoted, either automatically or via the play-offs, without an out and out goalscorer. Like I said I'm not suggesting for one moment, etc, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2010 20:33:06 GMT 1
This is a worn out hoary old discussion. As has been pointed out frequently, we did not have an abundant goalscoreer in 78-79. The goals flew in from everywhere. It is good to have one but it is not a prerequisite. Yes in 78 - 79 we managed to score 61 goals it is rare that a club gets promoted with less than 70 goals never mind win the league. Remember also in 78 - 79 it was only 2 points for a win so a draw was relatively more valuable than today. In fact if it had been 3 points for a win we would have finished 4th. Both Watford and Swansea scored 20 more goals than us. Isn't it just peachy when people belittle arguably the club's greatest achievements. The points system was different then but teams have changed their methods to accomodate the new system, so comparisons along those lines are spurious.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Aug 5, 2010 20:33:21 GMT 1
If you look at Port Vale with Marc Richards and Justin Richards, 39 goals between them last season, you do worry. But as a team Vale only scored 6 more than us last season. Yes, and they have just added a 16 goal striker I take Laim's point about service though regarding Marc Richards.
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Post by killershrew on Aug 5, 2010 21:00:02 GMT 1
Well after watching the Coventry and Tranmere games I was very impressed with the style and passing on the deck game and the defence looked very solid and passed the ball out of defence .(no more hoof ball up to Hibbo).But and it is a But where and who will get us the 75+ goals we need to get out of this league?? Harold's best season 8 goals and will Ainsworth get 12 to 15? Bradders 10/12 and Benji 8/10 or will GT delve into the loan market?
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Post by Shrewed on Aug 6, 2010 8:05:15 GMT 1
Isn't it just peachy when people belittle arguably the club's greatest achievements. The points system was different then but teams have changed their methods to accomodate the new system, so comparisons along those lines are spurious. Nobody is belittling the achievement of the 78 - 79 team, what I was doing was showing how spurious your original argument that because we won the league with only 61 goals and no 15+ goalscorer we were likely to do it again. The real point is that a team is unlikely to gain automatic promotion if it draws 19 games.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2010 10:58:51 GMT 1
I agree about the draws but you ignore the latter part of my argument about playing styles changing with the advent of 3 points for a win.
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Post by shrewblue on Aug 6, 2010 11:04:03 GMT 1
Time for speculation and pontification is almost over, tomorrow we will start to see where the goals are coming from!
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Post by elderstatesman on Aug 6, 2010 13:00:13 GMT 1
Time for speculation and pontification is almost over, tomorrow we will start to see where the goals are coming from! Quite right business starts tomorrow and I have already stated I would be happy with a draw.I think this season service to the forwards will be much improved and if the chances are made we will take them.Last years forwards fed on scraps but this year if reports are to be believed we have a more adventurous midfield with pace and cutting edge.Robinson showed more in the two friendlies than he did in all of last season.Kris Bright hardly played last season and when he did the service to him was not great let's judge him on this years performance when the service should be vastly improved.If a team has confidence the goals usually come from everywhere which then breeds greater confidence.I am hoping we get a good start in the first few games and then hopefully everyone chips in in the goalscoring stakes.The best teams attack as a team and defend as a team.
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