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Post by Dont believe the HYPE on Jun 17, 2010 19:12:21 GMT 1
Well Seems like Im in the minority of one in thinking Gerry Adams is a complete disgrace and should be locked away or worse
Perhaps I`am wrong,perhaps we should give him a knighthood, but I cant bring myself to except this man in any shape or form, you may call my views bigoted if you wish or even ill-informed but they are my views and I cant see myself ever changing them.
On many points and issues I have had my views changed both by good debate and further research, but Im not even prepared to consider ever excepting Gerry Adams as no more than a murdering terrorist.
Surly people have one issue or belief that they will stand firm on, no matter what the evediance suggests, this just happens to be mine.
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Post by Shrewed on Jun 17, 2010 19:21:47 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2010 19:59:57 GMT 1
Well Seems like Im in the minority of one in thinking Gerry Adams is a complete disgrace and should be locked away or worse Perhaps I`am wrong,perhaps we should give him a knighthood, but I cant bring myself to except this man in any shape or form, you may call my views bigoted if you wish or even ill-informed but they are my views and I cant see myself ever changing them. On many points and issues I have had my views changed both by good debate and further research, but Im not even prepared to consider ever excepting Gerry Adams as no more than a murdering terrorist. Surly people have one issue or belief that they will stand firm on, no matter what the evediance suggests, this just happens to be mine. for goodness sake, i have spent the past 5+ years (and beyond as a none b and a member) being mailighned for my views, most of which i stick to like a limpet when all around me (except Jamo) are tearing my arguements and reasoning to shreads. your entitled to your veiw as much as im entitled to mine. we just disagree profoundly. nothing wrong with that. i dont think he deserves a knighthood, thats just daft talk, and if many hadnt kept trying to defeat the one arguement (british shame and the governments apology) by muddying the waters with another (is gerry adams a murdering or not), the issue of adams would never have been raised. i just cant see the two are connected. dawleyshrew, i actually spoke to windsorshrew before i started this thread, who has been deployed in nothern ireland. the reason i did that was because i know what an emotive subject it would be and out of "respect" for those board members who may have been involved(quote) i didnt want to go starting something that would upset them. if i have upset you then im sorry. i do not however, make any apology for having an opinion based upon common knowledge and a little bit of reading, and debating this with other board members. why dont you share your knowledge and perhaps join in the discussion. just because i have never experienced anything like it, doesnt prevent me expressing my opinions.
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Post by Jonah on Jun 17, 2010 20:48:14 GMT 1
Jonah, have you ever managed a football league team? Have you ever bed bathed an old man 4 times in an hour because of prefuse uncontrollable diahorrea? No i guess not, but it doesnt mean you cannot have an opinion based on your beliefs and knowledge of football or the nhs does it?
So, no i have never been in that kind of situation. im not military. i fail to see how that makes the slightest difference. truth is, it doesnt does it? its a diversionary kind of tactic to divert people away from the issue, save them having to face up to the fact that innocent people where killed whilst taking part in a civil rights march.
Matron to be honest that is a pathetic comparison. I am sure the young squadies that day would loved to have managed a football league team etc. Unless you are in that life threatening situation then you cannot comment.
To be honest I have no idea who is right and who is wrong. There is always two sides to every story and we have only been told one 40 years later.
Innocent people are always the victims but the question is just how innocent?
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Post by WindsorShrew on Jun 17, 2010 20:48:47 GMT 1
Without doubt issues such as this will be emotional to some, Pab I don't think the fact that people served in the province gives them a greater say in these matters your voice is equal and should be respected as such.
That said for those who went over during the troubles we must ensure that we understand the hurt and tension they/we suffered as much as that of the Catholic populace.
The great thing about this board when used correctly is that people with a plethora of opinions can discuss debate and agree whilst all the time learning.
We should also learn that just because we don't agree with another poster it doesn't mean they are wrong.
But always unified by Salop.
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Post by R6ix on Jun 17, 2010 22:26:40 GMT 1
i recently read a book called "lost lives" ,it gives a detailed account on almost every one killed during the troubles.UDR,RUC,IRA,UVF,INLA Ect, its a fascinating insite to what sort of thing used to go on over there,when i was a kid i thought the IRA was just about when the odd bomb went off in london, but it was a daily ongoing struggle over there,
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Post by markglasgow on Jun 17, 2010 23:47:03 GMT 1
Just read this thread and credit to all taking part. B&A drives me nuts with it's banality at times but it's so good to see quality debate is still alive on here.
Being an 'Irish' catholic (by birth only I may add) born, raised and living in the west of Scotland the release of this report is of great interest. Not only for it's findings but also the reaction it triggers amongst the populace in the provence, in my locale and in the UK in general.
I'm encouraged to see that so many of my southern counterparts have digested what must be uncomfortable reading and concluded that terrible mistakes were made and these must be acknowledged. It would be so easy to cry 'IRA' and point to the atrocities commited by them on English soil. This of course is a seperate issue in all respects and this dark chapter cannot simply but glossed over by referring to terrorist activity that has no relation to the people who died that day.
DBTH's stance is pretty predictable as his belief-system will not allow him to devate from his anti catholic view point, hence his consistant but poorly thought out argument on this matter. This 'ingrained' train of thought is commonplace where I hail from and splits communities here in the West of Scotland to this day.
When I was a boy I never dreamed I would see peace in NI. The progress made in the last 20 years is nothing short of astounding and all sides must take credit for this. Our much maligned polictians played a massive role and no matter how you feel about former main terrorist figures like Adams and McGuiness they have played their part, albeit their motives may not have been as holistic as we'd hope.
The report may open some old wounds. It wil no doubt trigger much anger also, but for me it is also a timely reminder of how far this troubled land has come is such a relatively short space of time. And to all the protagonists involved in delivering this 'gift' to the people of Northern Ireland I raise a glass to you.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 18, 2010 7:27:03 GMT 1
Always though it were 9/11 that did more for the peace process in Ireland than owt else...
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Post by jamo on Jun 18, 2010 7:55:20 GMT 1
Always though it were 9/11 that did more for the peace process in Ireland than owt else... Think you are wrong there stutty. Blair ( and Ahern, the Iish Toisach )were well along the path towards the ultimate goal of an end to hostilities and eventual peace prior to 9/11 although I don't doubt of the impact that that act had on east coast Americas concious.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2010 9:45:45 GMT 1
Matron to be honest that is a pathetic comparison. I am sure the young squadies that day would loved to have managed a football league team etc. Unless you are in that life threatening situation then you cannot comment. oddly enough, the moment i pressed the post reply button i thought, "thats going to go way over his head isnt it", and by God i was right. have you considered becoming a limbo dancer? i think you are wrong, and badly wrong. if you need to have first hand experience of a situation to be able to express an opinion or make comment, then this board would shut down, literally, because although the circumstances are very different, just about every thread on this board is based around uninformed opinions, second hand accounts ect. the situation regards the soldiers is no different. where you there at the time of the troubles as a squaddie? if you where, then i trully would like to hear your opinions of what went on, what it was like ect. if you were'nt, then by your own definition how do you have the right to an opinion on the subject?
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Post by jamer99 on Jun 18, 2010 9:55:43 GMT 1
Being in the amred forces is no justification for shooting at unarmed innocent civilians, which is what happened there.
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Post by WindsorShrew on Jun 18, 2010 15:46:29 GMT 1
Always though it were 9/11 that did more for the peace process in Ireland than owt else... Think you are wrong there stutty. Blair ( and Ahern, the Iish Toisach )were well along the path towards the ultimate goal of an end to hostilities and eventual peace prior to 9/11 although I don't doubt of the impact that that act had on east coast Americas concious. Think you are wrong there Jamo, Thatcher and Major started the ball rolling and you know it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2010 15:57:49 GMT 1
[ Think you are wrong there Jamo, Thatcher and Major started the ball rolling and you know it. not sure abut that shorty, certainly major did a bit of work on northern irish peace, but thatcher?
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Post by monkee on Jun 18, 2010 15:58:25 GMT 1
Think you are wrong there stutty. Blair ( and Ahern, the Iish Toisach )were well along the path towards the ultimate goal of an end to hostilities and eventual peace prior to 9/11 although I don't doubt of the impact that that act had on east coast Americas concious. Think you are wrong there Jamo, Thatcher and Major started the ball rolling and you know it. yes, thats fair enough, but it makes a mockery of her not talking to terrorists stance. the british govt and the IRA seem to have had a little more contact than we have been told. I think it was the best thing the major govt was responsible for, possibly the only thing.
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Post by Jonah on Jun 18, 2010 16:20:34 GMT 1
Matron to be honest that is a pathetic comparison. I am sure the young squadies that day would loved to have managed a football league team etc. Unless you are in that life threatening situation then you cannot comment. oddly enough, the moment i pressed the post reply button i thought, "thats going to go way over his head isnt it", and by God i was right. have you considered becoming a limbo dancer? i think you are wrong, and badly wrong. if you need to have first hand experience of a situation to be able to express an opinion or make comment, then this board would shut down, literally, because although the circumstances are very different, just about every thread on this board is based around uninformed opinions, second hand accounts ect. the situation regards the soldiers is no different. where you there at the time of the troubles as a squaddie? if you where, then i trully would like to hear your opinions of what went on, what it was like ect. if you were'nt, then by your own definition how do you have the right to an opinion on the subject? Wrong I might be Matron but the point I was making was that you can express an opinion but there is no way you would know what yours or anyone elses reaction would be in a life threatening situation. Mistakes were made I agree but there is always two sides to every story. Just a little bit different from wiping someones a*se IMO. And yes I have as much right as you to express an opinion
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Post by jamo on Jun 18, 2010 16:23:09 GMT 1
Think you are wrong there Jamo, Thatcher and Major started the ball rolling and you know it. Brilliant
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2010 19:33:39 GMT 1
oddly enough, the moment i pressed the post reply button i thought, "thats going to go way over his head isnt it", and by God i was right. have you considered becoming a limbo dancer? i think you are wrong, and badly wrong. if you need to have first hand experience of a situation to be able to express an opinion or make comment, then this board would shut down, literally, because although the circumstances are very different, just about every thread on this board is based around uninformed opinions, second hand accounts ect. the situation regards the soldiers is no different. where you there at the time of the troubles as a squaddie? if you where, then i trully would like to hear your opinions of what went on, what it was like ect. if you were'nt, then by your own definition how do you have the right to an opinion on the subject? Wrong I might be Matron but the point I was making was that you can express an opinion but there is no way you would know what yours or anyone elses reaction would be in a life threatening situation. Mistakes were made I agree but there is always two sides to every story. which i dont think anyone has argued. but, if these soldiers where put in a position they where not trained for and made mistakes, then someone is at fault for putting them in that position, and it was a pretty big mistake which imo deserved an apology, which is the whole point of this thread ffsJust a little bit different from wiping someones a*se IMO. your point was, that unless i have been put in that position, how would i know? my point is i dont need to be in that position to have an opinion, an opinion that you now seem to share.And yes I have as much right as you to express an opinion i agree, its you who has been trying to tell me i dont have a right to an opinion because i have never been in the kind of situation faced by the soldiers on bloody sunday
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Post by El Presidente on Jun 19, 2010 10:57:38 GMT 1
Think this thread is suffering from positional asphyxiation now...
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Post by Jonah on Jun 19, 2010 18:42:11 GMT 1
Think this thread is suffering from positional asphyxiation now... Who?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2010 22:58:42 GMT 1
Think this thread is suffering from positional asphyxiation now... you are correct. good debate though. Jonah, agree to disagree.
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Post by Jonah on Jun 20, 2010 9:01:32 GMT 1
Think this thread is suffering from positional asphyxiation now... you are correct. good debate though. Jonah, agree to disagree. Excellent debate Matron. I will settle for a score draw mate
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Post by Shrewed on Jun 20, 2010 10:21:04 GMT 1
you are correct. good debate though. Jonah, agree to disagree. Excellent debate Matron. I will settle for a score draw mate Jonah you have to stop arguing with Ref Saville otherwise its a red card.
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Post by Jonah on Jun 20, 2010 10:25:25 GMT 1
Excellent debate Matron. I will settle for a score draw mate Jonah you have to stop arguing with Ref Saville otherwise its a red card. Never had one in my playings days Ed so I have conceded gracefully to protect my unblemished career:D
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