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Post by froggy on Jun 8, 2010 7:43:39 GMT 1
I've just realised that we never really have historical debates on here and as many people have quality knowledge, I think there should be a thread for people to debate.
I'm coming to the end of A2 History and my exam (next wednesday) is on Germany - From Kaiser to Fuhrer. The first main debate in this course is:
Was Germany's feeling of encirclement by the Triple Entente or continuation of aggressive foreign policy to blame for the outbreak of WWI?
Your opinions?
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Post by heavenlyshrew on Jun 8, 2010 7:48:22 GMT 1
Will your A2 history help you open a can of beans or even a tin of peaches?
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 8, 2010 7:55:14 GMT 1
A2 history? What’s that then our kid? Where are you studying? Decent topic that. I’ve always found German history fascinating, from the Holy Roman Empire, the many independent German states to eventual unification.
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Post by froggy on Jun 8, 2010 8:00:03 GMT 1
A2 history? What’s that then our kid? Where are you studying? Decent topic that. I’ve always found German history fascinating, from the Holy Roman Empire, the many independent German states to eventual unification. Sorry, by A2 i meant A level (its the second and final year of it). Studying at New College Telford at the minute. Its been a very interesting topic to learn, as you rightly say, the unification of 1871 is a very interesting period. It covers from German unification, WWI, Weimar Republic and Nazis breathrough and what the Nazis did when in power. Its a really interesting topic that i'm taking further next year at uni as i've found a passion for it. As immature and silly as it is, my favourite part from the whole part on Germany was reading in my textbook yesterday that Hitler caught Syphilis off a Jewish prositute and thus, increasing his anti-semetic beliefs.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Jun 8, 2010 8:04:11 GMT 1
I don't think the answer is "or" but rather which was the most significant. In fact I would suggest the aggressive foreign policy was directly linked to the feeling of encirclement and the fear that they had been left behind colonially.
The pace with which they armed themselves suggests they knew it was going to kick off. I doubt they had WW1 in mind at that time though.
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Post by froggy on Jun 8, 2010 8:12:39 GMT 1
I don't think the answer is "or" but rather which was the most significant. In fact I would suggest the aggressive foreign policy was directly linked to the feeling of encirclement and the fear that they had been left behind colonially. The pace with which they armed themselves suggests they knew it was going to kick off. I doubt they had WW1 in mind at that time though. True, I believe that their foreign policy was extremely aggressive and their naval expansion (wanting to match that of Britains) going from 3 dreadnoughts to having 13 in 1914 (one behind Britain) led to the fear of the Allies (France, Britain and Russia) and therefore creating the Triple Entente. WIlhelm II at the time, a very different character, leading Germany felt "encircled" by these power nations but didn't realise that his and his Chancellor's foreign policies were so aggressive. It is to go too far as to say that they were seeking a war in 1914, but the intention for a war was certianly there, proven by the War Council meeting of 1912 and the blank cheque issued to Austria in 1914 after the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. I believe Germany were at fault, however, quite a few people i talk to blame Austria ...
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Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 8, 2010 8:44:39 GMT 1
I studied that period of German history for A level too.
Germany saw everyone else going for a piece of the pie and wanted some themselves. The secret nature of treaties at that time increased feelings of insecurity on all sides. Tensions were heightened by the arms race.
Nationalism also had its part to play. Italian and German unification (under Prussian hegemony and excluding Austria) happened at the beginning of the period. Throughout the period there was the deterioration of the Ottoman Empire and Austro-Hungarian Empire creating vacuum which was filled by of pan-slavic nationalism.
Nastiness all round.
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Post by Fingers on Jun 8, 2010 9:29:44 GMT 1
Youth of today are too lazy - do your own research.
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Post by Pilch on Jun 8, 2010 9:45:20 GMT 1
Don't mention the war
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Post by shrew4life on Jun 8, 2010 9:47:19 GMT 1
All I'm getting from reading this thread is that Windsor Jnr is just trying to show off how much he knows about the history of Germany.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Jun 8, 2010 11:21:46 GMT 1
All I'm getting from reading this thread is that Windsor Jnr is just trying to show off how much he knows about the history of Germany. Very harsh. He asked a decent question and has got some decent answers. Wait until the "Why WW2" question: that will be fascinating.
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Post by RBA on Jun 8, 2010 11:33:52 GMT 1
Why world war 1 would be even more fascinating
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Post by WindsorShrew on Jun 8, 2010 12:08:15 GMT 1
All I'm getting from reading this thread is that Windsor Jnr is just trying to show off how much he knows about the history of Germany. Agree entirely mate, what a well balanced point you put across. Besides if Windsor Jnr really wanted to excell he would of course be revising insted of showing off on here.
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Post by nicko on Jun 8, 2010 13:07:59 GMT 1
The rise in Nationalism was the major trigger for WWI in my opinion. A grab for empire was a knock on effect from this. Churchill said " The wars of peoples will be more terrible than the wars of Kings."
The irony was it was started by Kings, but finished by the people.
The divisions in Europe were deep and complex and I think this is partly to do with the undemocratic nature of the major regimes (including the UK) at the turn of the 20th century.
So not only did we have a ruling elite of the upper-middle class and aristocracy, but an up and coming socialist movement. In short the ruling elite in Europe were threaten by nationalism and class.
I think there would have been war in the early part of the 20th century regardless of Germany's feelings of encirclement by the Triple Entente simply because of the nature of the alliances pre-1914.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jun 8, 2010 13:48:56 GMT 1
Slightly O/T, but if you want to read more about the period in fictional form I recommend 'Birds Without Wings' by Louis De Bernieres.
It's about people caught up in the collapse of the Ottoman empire, the rise of the secular Turkish state under Attaturk, and the destruction that religion and nationalism caused to communities that previously lived peacefuly together.
It's about a piece of history little known to us and also a cracking good read.
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Post by froggy on Jun 8, 2010 13:55:52 GMT 1
All I'm getting from reading this thread is that Windsor Jnr is just trying to show off how much he knows about the history of Germany. I apologise there. My whole intention was to come on and boast of how good my knowledge is. Yes, that is what i set out to do. You are so good at catching people out I remember last year we had one on Russia last year when i was studying it. That thread turned out to be a good one if i remember correctly. But sorry if my intention to "show off" annoyed you. People like you are the reason I stopped posting on here for a period ...
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Post by notshrewsbury on Jun 8, 2010 13:57:18 GMT 1
God, i have posted on this messageboard a couple of times, and that is all it's taken to realise how thick some people on here are, all windsor junior was trying to do was to get some intelligent comments about a subject he is passionate about and some of you idiots are taking the p**s out of him for it. shrew4life I'm sure that you enjoy your career as a draftsman, AND I LOVE YOU.
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Post by Fingers on Jun 8, 2010 14:00:50 GMT 1
I believe you mean Deutschland land not Germany
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Post by shrew4life on Jun 8, 2010 14:04:52 GMT 1
All I'm getting from reading this thread is that Windsor Jnr is just trying to show off how much he knows about the history of Germany. I apologise there. My whole intention was to come on and boast of how good my knowledge is. Yes, that is what i set out to do. You are so good at catching people out I remember last year we had one on Russia last year when i was studying it. That thread turned out to be a good one if i remember correctly. But sorry if my intention to "show off" annoyed you. People like you are the reason I stopped posting on here for a period ... Well im obviously doing something wrong as your back.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jun 8, 2010 14:06:40 GMT 1
I don't understand why people post on threads such as these just to display how narrow minded and ignorant they are.
But when they do they are best ignored.
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Post by shrew4life on Jun 8, 2010 14:08:10 GMT 1
God, i have posted on this messageboard a couple of times, and that is all it's taken to realise how thick some people on here are, all windsor junior was trying to do was to get some intelligent comments about a subject he is passionate about and some of you idiots are taking the p**s out of him for it. shrew4life I'm sure that you enjoy your career stacking shelves at netto, but some of us value our education and the knowledge that we gain from it. I'm actually a draftsman but if that goes belly up I'll definitely look into that Netto career you seem so fond of, cheers.
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Post by notshrewsbury on Jun 8, 2010 14:11:58 GMT 1
Well ACTUALLY you criticise a student for 'showing off' yet you just went to great lengths to proclaim your career as a glorified drawer.
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Post by shrew4life on Jun 8, 2010 14:27:52 GMT 1
Well ACTUALLY you criticise a student for 'showing off' yet you just went to great lengths to proclaim your career as a glorified drawer. I was just correcting your mistake. Your welcome. I wouldn't exactly call that job showing off it's pretty run of the mill really bit like that Netto job you like. Fair play to Windsor Jnr for taking up an interesting and no doubt hard course. Don't get me wrong I find the 2 world wars and that time period very interesting but I only said how the thread came across that's all so try and get over it some time today dear.
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Post by notshrewsbury on Jun 8, 2010 14:31:50 GMT 1
i didn't bongo your mum.
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Post by shrew4life on Jun 8, 2010 14:35:54 GMT 1
And you called me an idiot. What a well thought out argued point you made there.
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Post by notshrewsbury on Jun 8, 2010 14:36:22 GMT 1
and she certainly didn't like it.
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Post by heavenlyshrew on Jun 8, 2010 14:36:33 GMT 1
I think he bongo'd his own mum:D
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Post by El Presidente on Jun 8, 2010 15:11:49 GMT 1
Wasn't Kaiser Bill an impetulant oik who wanted to show granny that Germany could be just as Great as Britain...!?
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Post by monkee on Jun 8, 2010 15:17:53 GMT 1
is it just me or does anyone else find the comments about people who stack shelves arrogant to the extreme? I know plenty of people who work in shops for various reasons, mainly to keep their family fed or to put themselves through further education. I once knew a bloke that was studying a masters in languages and working what some would consider rubbish jobs, he didnt think it beneath him.
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Post by notshrewsbury on Jun 8, 2010 15:25:33 GMT 1
you misunderstand the point i am making, the people you use as your examples people who have taken those sort of jobs as a means to an end, i myself work at a chip shop to support myself through college, however i don't 'enjoy' it i do it because i need to achieve my future goals, shrew4life does it because he is the best person ever and I CAN'T BELIEVE HE HASN'T BECOME PRIME MINISTER YET.
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