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Post by monkee on May 25, 2010 13:35:23 GMT 1
So you are basically saying a recession under the Conservatives was the Conservatives fault yet a recession under Labour (the worst ever) was nothing to do with them whatsoever. Go figure. Yer wha? Voices in your head mate. this is always the thing we get into with party politics, a defence of labour means you are attacking the tories and vice versa.
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LufbraSalop
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Post by LufbraSalop on May 25, 2010 13:38:27 GMT 1
Ok, but why do you think they are nasty? Link------> said by one of their own the fact that they needed a partner to get into government because they werent popular enough to do it alone, suggests that they still havent shaken off the image So you think they're nasty because of public perception in 2002? Not the fact that that perception is almost entirely based on the Thatcher government, the poll tax and the treatment of the miners?! What we are talking about is proof that this exists in the new cabinet, not a perception that it existed 8 years ago.
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Post by mrbunny on May 25, 2010 13:41:11 GMT 1
So you are basically saying a recession under the Conservatives was the Conservatives fault yet a recession under Labour (the worst ever) was nothing to do with them whatsoever. Go figure. Yer wha? Voices in your head mate. Well all you Labourites are like confused Ladyboys,you want it both ways.Any poor thing that happened under a Tory regime was their fault as they are evil but any bad thing under a Labour regime was not their fault and was out of their control. They were in power when the crisis started so like it or lump it history will blame them as it does Lamont and co for late 80's early 90's mess.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2010 13:43:07 GMT 1
Compared to the banking system collapsing in 2008 - discuss. So you are basically saying a recession under the Conservatives was the Conservatives fault yet a recession under Labour (the worst ever) was nothing to do with them whatsoever. Go figure. of course it has something to do with Labour, they should have let the banks go bust one by one, and just watched as every single household in the country went into melt down. no skin off my nose either, cos if my bank went bust apart from not being able to access my salary and pay my bills i wouldnt notice a thing. to be fair, the tory policy on this isssssssssssss, urmmmmmmmm, and the lib dem policy on this isssssssssss, urmmmmmmmm, well the tory policy actually all hail the Nu Politics
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2010 13:55:34 GMT 1
[ So you think they're nasty because of public perception in 2002? Not the fact that that perception is almost entirely based on the Thatcher government, the poll tax and the treatment of the miners?! dont forget single parents, the poor, gays and lesbians (shut it pike ) unmarried couples, trade unions, anyone with a mortgage, anyone who didnt have the financial capacity to benefit from the sale of our nationalised industries, shipbuilders, nuclear disarmerment protestors, westlands employees, anti apartied protesters, s**t the list is endless
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Post by monkee on May 25, 2010 14:00:48 GMT 1
Link------> said by one of their own the fact that they needed a partner to get into government because they werent popular enough to do it alone, suggests that they still havent shaken off the image So you think they're nasty because of public perception in 2002? Not the fact that that perception is almost entirely based on the Thatcher government, the poll tax and the treatment of the miners?! What we are talking about is proof that this exists in the new cabinet, not a perception that it existed 8 years ago. Well i wouldnt go so far as to say that it is all down to Mrs Thatcher, there were a few years of sleaze and ministers doing prison time under John Major. what else have i got to go on? the perception of the Tory party is based on the last time they were in government, not my fault that they took so long to limp back in to office. then, within a couple of weeks they are pushing people around, and cutting education, local govt and pensions, because they failed to make the £6b in savings that they had promised. we all know that the tories are up the arse of banks and business, but to hit the people with cuts and not mention the banks who have been stitching us for years, for me, shows their lack of interest in the public as anything other than drones who are mug enough to mop up the mess their pals have created. and by the way, labours overtures toward banks and business have p**sed me off just as much, maybe more as i expected a little better of them.
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LufbraSalop
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Post by LufbraSalop on May 25, 2010 14:21:55 GMT 1
So you think they're nasty because of public perception in 2002? Not the fact that that perception is almost entirely based on the Thatcher government, the poll tax and the treatment of the miners?! What we are talking about is proof that this exists in the new cabinet, not a perception that it existed 8 years ago. Well i wouldnt go so far as to say that it is all down to Mrs Thatcher, there were a few years of sleaze and ministers doing prison time under John Major. what else have i got to go on? Nothing, thats my point, that why i asked how many members of the previous Tory government are in this one. Basing your assessment of the current conservative government on an administration that left office over 13 years ago is an unfair judgement and is just the same as the 'tit for tat' politics you've just derided. These cuts were coming, whether its this week or next year, under whatever government we got at the election. Where abouts have they cut eduction?
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Post by monkee on May 25, 2010 14:29:47 GMT 1
Well i wouldnt go so far as to say that it is all down to Mrs Thatcher, there were a few years of sleaze and ministers doing prison time under John Major. what else have i got to go on? Nothing, thats my point, that why i asked how many members of the previous Tory government are in this one. Basing your assessment of the current conservative government on an administration that left office over 13 years ago is an unfair judgement and is just the same as the 'tit for tat' politics you've just derided. These cuts were coming, whether its this week or next year, under whatever government we got at the election. Where abouts have they cut eduction? that would be fair enough if that was what i was doing, but i am not. I am linking the behaviour of today with their self proclamed desire not to be the nasty party. Had i come along and said it the day they were elected, then you would be fair in what you are saying, but i havent done that, i have taken todays actions and matched them with the ones of their previous attempt at government, to suggest that despite their guff about listening to the people, they just carry on regardless of public opinion once they are in govt. Link------> i have deliberately used a tory paper , so i cant be accused of using biased sources
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LufbraSalop
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Post by LufbraSalop on May 25, 2010 14:51:13 GMT 1
Nothing, thats my point, that why i asked how many members of the previous Tory government are in this one. Basing your assessment of the current conservative government on an administration that left office over 13 years ago is an unfair judgement and is just the same as the 'tit for tat' politics you've just derided. These cuts were coming, whether its this week or next year, under whatever government we got at the election. Where abouts have they cut eduction? that would be fair enough if that was what i was doing, but i am not. I am linking the behaviour of today with their self proclamed desire not to be the nasty party. Had i come along and said it the day they were elected, then you would be fair in what you are saying, but i havent done that, i have taken todays actions and matched them with the ones of their previous attempt at government, to suggest that despite their guff about listening to the people, they just carry on regardless of public opinion once they are in govt. Link------> i have deliberately used a tory paper , so i cant be accused of using biased sources I suppose its how you define nasty. They are dealing with the situation in front of them. I don't think they are doing it in a nasty way (i.e. being malicious). Although Labour might have attempted to cover the deficit with a bit more tax than the Tories, similar cuts would have happened whoever was in charge.
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Post by shrewsace on May 25, 2010 14:57:54 GMT 1
that would be fair enough if that was what i was doing, but i am not. I am linking the behaviour of today with their self proclamed desire not to be the nasty party. Had i come along and said it the day they were elected, then you would be fair in what you are saying, but i havent done that, i have taken todays actions and matched them with the ones of their previous attempt at government, to suggest that despite their guff about listening to the people, they just carry on regardless of public opinion once they are in govt. Link------> i have deliberately used a tory paper , so i cant be accused of using biased sources I suppose its how you define nasty. They are dealing with the situation in front of them. I don't think they are doing it in a nasty way (i.e. being malicious). Although Labour might have attempted to cover the deficit with a bit more tax than the Tories, similar cuts would have happened whoever was in charge. To be fair they've listened to the business leaders, some of them Tory donors, and decided that the fairest way is to spare them an additional 1% rise in NICs and take the axe to the public sector instead. They're all heart.
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LufbraSalop
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Post by LufbraSalop on May 25, 2010 15:03:03 GMT 1
I suppose its how you define nasty. They are dealing with the situation in front of them. I don't think they are doing it in a nasty way (i.e. being malicious). Although Labour might have attempted to cover the deficit with a bit more tax than the Tories, similar cuts would have happened whoever was in charge. To be fair they've listened to the business leaders, some of them Tory donors, and decided that the fairest way is to spare them an additional 1% rise in NICs and take the axe to the public sector instead. They're all heart. Yeah because that 1% rise would have covered all the cuts
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Post by Amsterdammer on May 25, 2010 15:18:56 GMT 1
To be fair they've listened to the business leaders, some of them Tory donors, and decided that the fairest way is to spare them an additional 1% rise in NICs and take the axe to the public sector instead. They're all heart. Yeah because that 1% rise would have covered all the cuts NI rise planned by labour would have brought in around 7bn. So yes, these ones it would have. The NI rise would cost 50,000 jobs according to some. The spending cuts announced by the Tories will probably result in the same in the short term.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2010 15:25:09 GMT 1
The travesty in all these shenanigans are:-
1) Under Thatcher the Tories became only slightly to the left of Stalin
2) To match this New Labour moved again slightly to the left if not level with Thatcher
3) The only realistic left wing option in the last 20 years were the LibDems and now they have sold themselves down the river
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LufbraSalop
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Post by LufbraSalop on May 25, 2010 15:27:50 GMT 1
Yeah because that 1% rise would have covered all the cuts NI rise planned by labour would have brought in around 7bn. So yes, these ones it would have Oh dear, got caught not knowing the facts I mean't the entire deficit
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Post by Minor on May 25, 2010 16:08:57 GMT 1
The travesty in all these shenanigans are:- 1) Under Thatcher the Tories became only slightly to the left of Stalin 2) To match this New Labour moved again slightly to the left if not level with Thatcher 3) The only realistic left wing option in the last 20 years were the LibDems and now they have sold themselves down the river And with regard to point 3, is it not about time that the members of the electorate who voted Lib Dem as a tool to stop the evil 'tories' getting into power and should have followed their proper left leanings and voted Labour GOT OVER the fact that it didn't work and the coalition has happened and why not give it a chance to try and get the country back into shape. All these people you hear on any questions and question time whimping on about their vote not counting and that they didn't vote for the coalition why don't they give it a rest, I have voted conservative since I was legally entitled to (1982), but I am quite prepared to give this coalition a chance to get the situation sorted so why can't they ?
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2010 16:25:20 GMT 1
[but I am quite prepared to give this coalition a chance to get the situation sorted so why can't they ? as a tory voter, arnt you just glad to cling onto power any way possible? and if that means ditching half your policies and principles, then what the heck? what will happen at the next election if the great Nu Politics works? how will people vote for the coalition to continue? if there is a by election in the next five years, those that like the coalition, how do they vote? tory, liberal? what? the coalition is a scam and people have every right to feel cheated. im sure you and others had a lengthy debate with myself after the 2005 general election crowing on about the majority of the british public had not voted for Labour so it was wrong they got in, didnt represent the country yardy yar. odd now then that you support a government that NO ONE in britain voted for.
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Post by Minor on May 25, 2010 16:57:03 GMT 1
[but I am quite prepared to give this coalition a chance to get the situation sorted so why can't they ? as a tory voter, arnt you just glad to cling onto power any way possible? and if that means ditching half your policies and principles, then what the heck? what will happen at the next election if the great Nu Politics works? how will people vote for the coalition to continue? if there is a by election in the next five years, those that like the coalition, how do they vote? tory, liberal? what? the coalition is a scam and people have every right to feel cheated. im sure you and others had a lengthy debate with myself after the 2005 general election crowing on about the majority of the british public had not voted for Labour so it was wrong they got in, didnt represent the country yardy yar. odd now then that you support a government that NO ONE in britain voted for. Comrade , I am not one of those who moans about ??% of the country who did not vote for whichever party/ govt. is in power argument, thats the system and I personally prefer the 1st past the post system whoever is in charge. There are those that whine about their vote 'not counting', what does these peopke want ??, their own own individual MP ??, what the majority of them no doubt mean is that they don't want those evil tories to win With regard to my own personal situation the Company I work for used to supply about 99% of our sales to British Coal and got paid peanuts, so the the Miners strike actually did us a favour as we diversified into another area which proved to be a great success and we are still the largest employer in this area, which without that diversification we probably would have gone bust thanks to the strike if we had relied on that outlet for our product. So some good came of that situation in our case and the BC area
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Post by venceremos on May 25, 2010 18:19:09 GMT 1
With regard to my own personal situation the Company I work for used to supply about 99% of our sales to British Coal and got paid peanuts, so the the Miners strike actually did us a favour as we diversified into another area which proved to be a great success and we are still the largest employer in this area, which without that diversification we probably would have gone bust thanks to the strike if we had relied on that outlet for our product. So some good came of that situation in our case and the BC area No doubt that's a heartwarming anecdote to recount in the mining towns and villages of Yorkshire and Kent and Scotland and Nottinghamshire ..... Another way of looking at those events is that your company didn't deserve to survive. It sounds like it was appallingly managed, to have depended so heavily on one customer. British Coal on the other hand, seems to have had your company where it wanted it - able to pay peanuts because you were entirely dependent on it. So much "analysis" of our recent history only trots out the tired old cliches of striking lefties and unions holding the country to ransom. There's some truth in that but it omits at least half the story. The other side of that coin was the atrocious, class ridden, time serving, unimaginative management of so much British business. Of course it's harder to get pics of that on the telly. Still, it's ironic that state interference (by a Conservative government) in the "natural" workings of the market saved your company and finished British Coal.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on May 25, 2010 20:06:25 GMT 1
First PMQ tomorrow.
What time is it on?
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Post by RBA on May 25, 2010 20:25:25 GMT 1
[but I am quite prepared to give this coalition a chance to get the situation sorted so why can't they ? as a tory voter, arnt you just glad to cling onto power any way possible? and if that means ditching half your policies and principles, then what the heck? what will happen at the next election if the great Nu Politics works? how will people vote for the coalition to continue? if there is a by election in the next five years, those that like the coalition, how do they vote? tory, liberal? what? the coalition is a scam and people have every right to feel cheated. im sure you and others had a lengthy debate with myself after the 2005 general election crowing on about the majority of the british public had not voted for Labour so it was wrong they got in, didnt represent the country yardy yar. odd now then that you support a government that NO ONE in britain voted for. mmm I think you will find 56% of the population voted for the parties that make up the coalition anyway like all other governments including Thatchers and Blairs it will come and go Do some good and no doubt do some harm We are very tribal about politics in this country The truth is all governemnts have strengths and weakness ,none are evil (in last 50 yrs anyway) ,all try but most fall short sad isnt it?
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Post by MarkRowley on May 25, 2010 21:14:16 GMT 1
Complete over-reaction by the anti-coalition snipers on here and amongst the media who have to continue to fill their pages of tripe and/or 24 hours of "news" Due to a combination of the significant failings of the last Government in its final years and worldwide economic conditions we quite frankly are in the s**te (albeit unlike the Greeks we aren't submerged just yet). We have a deficit to deal that is of staggering proportions (when it was last this bad we at least had the excuse of having to fund the protection of our nation and freedom in Europe and elsewhere). It will take us many years to deal with this and whatever hue of party you voted for, anyone sensible who was elected would know they would have to have a serious look at our ongoing expenditure. £6bn is in anyone's language a huge amount of money and you can't even begin to imagine what that would look like in £20's. Yet this is but a small fraction (1% I believe) of what it costs to run this great nation of ours. The public sector contains many individuals be they teachers, social workers, dinner ladies, binmen or whoever who do a more than decent job, a great job in some cases, yet for decades as a collective the public sector has been rife with incompotence, inefficiency, bureaucracy, protectionism and waste, and no one has had the balls to address it - that is part of the overall problem. We cannot go on running our country like a bunch of amateurs without realising that for every scheme that goes massively over budget, every hairbrained piece of expenditure by government or councils, there is some poor sap footing the bill i.e. you and I. This nation costs many billions to run yet only a fool could argue that every single £ that is spent at national or local government level is either spent wisely or necessarily. If sensible decisions are taken as to what is necessary or wise in terms of current schemes and future plans, no meaningful frontline services at all need be harmed as a result of these measures but no doubt political points will try to be won across the country by saying that the new coalition have forced us to shut libraries or stop supporting elderly services etc It's time for government officials, civil servants and councillors to tackle the real problems by dealing with the waste and inefficiency that undeniably exists, cut back on their perks of first class travel, foreign trips, general jollies etc, and make their offices run better, cutting back on the flim flam that has been rife in the New Labour era of consultants and advisors, and getting rid of any dead wood or under performing staff that they are carrying. This will be a tough few years and these cuts are just the start of what is needed to drag us slowly out of the large hole we are in
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Post by SeanBroseley on May 25, 2010 23:31:44 GMT 1
I don't accept that mismanagement played a part in this apart from the private sector unable to understand, and therefore manage risk. Money gets wasted in both the private sector and the public sector. Neither accounts for this situation. But's that the past and it is pointless debating how we got here. What you describe mark doesn't come close. The banks in Europe are finished and the banks in America are finished. And there's no one left to bail them out. Liquidate all your investments and all your cash. Buy one of these babies: www.amazon.co.uk/Web-tex-Surviva-Pure-Survival-Straw/dp/B002LU0VYW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=sports&qid=1274826616&sr=8-1 and as much tinned food as you can. The more you buy the longer you can go without having to casserole your neighbours. People with patience and nothing else to do will be able to trawl through this m/b and find the post from sometime in June/July 2007 when I warned about things letting rip. I had hoped, because having children means you have to have hope, that the absolutely correct actions taken in 2008 would save the situation, albeit at the cost of a decade of depression and civil unrest, and 20 -30 years to paying down the debt. But it's not going to work.
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Post by SeanBroseley on May 26, 2010 1:11:55 GMT 1
Yer wha? Voices in your head mate. Well all you Labourites are like confused Ladyboys,you want it both ways.Any poor thing that happened under a Tory regime was their fault as they are evil but any bad thing under a Labour regime was not their fault and was out of their control. They were in power when the crisis started so like it or lump it history will blame them as it does Lamont and co for late 80's early 90's mess. Read and understand this: www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2009/01/31/therovingcavaliersofcredit/ then try again. There's no excuse for not reading it: it isn't a book so you won't keep dropping it because you don't have opposable thumbs.
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Post by Minor on May 26, 2010 6:50:09 GMT 1
I don't accept that mismanagement played a part in this apart from the private sector unable to understand, and therefore manage risk. Money gets wasted in both the private sector and the public sector. Neither accounts for this situation. But's that the past and it is pointless debating how we got here. What you describe mark doesn't come close. The banks in Europe are finished and the banks in America are finished. And there's no one left to bail them out. Liquidate all your investments and all your cash. Buy one of these babies: www.amazon.co.uk/Web-tex-Surviva-Pure-Survival-Straw/dp/B002LU0VYW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=sports&qid=1274826616&sr=8-1 and as much tinned food as you can. The more you buy the longer you can go without having to casserole your neighbours. People with patience and nothing else to do will be able to trawl through this m/b and find the post from sometime in June/July 2007 when I warned about things letting rip. I had hoped, because having children means you have to have hope, that the absolutely correct actions taken in 2008 would save the situation, albeit at the cost of a decade of depression and civil unrest, and 20 -30 years to paying down the debt. But it's not going to work. One crucial difference with the Public sector and the Private Sector both wasting money.........the Public Sector wastes the TAXPAYERS money, if the Private sector waste money that is their privately earned income which if they waste then they deserve to go bust.
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Post by Minor on May 26, 2010 6:58:51 GMT 1
With regard to my own personal situation the Company I work for used to supply about 99% of our sales to British Coal and got paid peanuts, so the the Miners strike actually did us a favour as we diversified into another area which proved to be a great success and we are still the largest employer in this area, which without that diversification we probably would have gone bust thanks to the strike if we had relied on that outlet for our product. So some good came of that situation in our case and the BC area No doubt that's a heartwarming anecdote to recount in the mining towns and villages of Yorkshire and Kent and Scotland and Nottinghamshire ..... Another way of looking at those events is that your company didn't deserve to survive. It sounds like it was appallingly managed, to have depended so heavily on one customer. British Coal on the other hand, seems to have had your company where it wanted it - able to pay peanuts because you were entirely dependent on it. So much "analysis" of our recent history only trots out the tired old cliches of striking lefties and unions holding the country to ransom. There's some truth in that but it omits at least half the story. The other side of that coin was the atrocious, class ridden, time serving, unimaginative management of so much British business. Of course it's harder to get pics of that on the telly. Still, it's ironic that state interference (by a Conservative government) in the "natural" workings of the market saved your company and finished British Coal. So a mining town in wherever is on a higher moral plain than a rural farming community in South Shropshire Jobs are jobs wherever they are. And this 'appallingly' managed Company has only lost money in ONE financial year since 1978, and invested millions of pounds to progress the Company and the family who own the Company employ upwards of 90 people in a Town with a population of 2000,and as by far & away the largest employer providing a backbone to a community.
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Post by SeanBroseley on May 26, 2010 7:44:05 GMT 1
I don't accept that mismanagement played a part in this apart from the private sector unable to understand, and therefore manage risk. Money gets wasted in both the private sector and the public sector. Neither accounts for this situation. But's that the past and it is pointless debating how we got here. What you describe mark doesn't come close. The banks in Europe are finished and the banks in America are finished. And there's no one left to bail them out. Liquidate all your investments and all your cash. Buy one of these babies: www.amazon.co.uk/Web-tex-Surviva-Pure-Survival-Straw/dp/B002LU0VYW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=sports&qid=1274826616&sr=8-1 and as much tinned food as you can. The more you buy the longer you can go without having to casserole your neighbours. People with patience and nothing else to do will be able to trawl through this m/b and find the post from sometime in June/July 2007 when I warned about things letting rip. I had hoped, because having children means you have to have hope, that the absolutely correct actions taken in 2008 would save the situation, albeit at the cost of a decade of depression and civil unrest, and 20 -30 years to paying down the debt. But it's not going to work. One crucial difference with the Public sector and the Private Sector both wasting money.........the Public Sector wastes the TAXPAYERS money, if the Private sector waste money that is their privately earned income which if they waste then they deserve to go bust. Not a crucial difference in the present situation, and quite often - when speaking of big business - there is next to no difference -as the situation at BT, for example, in the last 2 years demonstrates. " deserves" - deserves has nothing to do with it. I'm waiting for someone to rave about Brown selling our gold. Please, please make my day someone.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2010 8:14:28 GMT 1
mmm I think you will find 56% of the population voted for the parties that make up the coalition ? and when they where voting for either lib dem, how many knew they where actually voting for tory policies? im aware of what they voted for, and im aware of what they got, my problem is the 2 are not the same. lib dem voters have for all intense and purposes had there vote given to the tories. is that democratic? can you honestly say that if you had voted lib dem, with all the left of centre policies and ideologies the lib dems have, you would be happy to have your vote elect a right wing tory goverment? do you not find that in the lest bit distastefull? clegg can prattle all he likes about what he did, this basically boils down to him clinging to his job, because after the run up he had, with the unpopularity of the previous government, he would without a doubt have been banished to the back benches if he had not won. Complete over-reaction by the anti-coalition snipers on here thats a matter of perseption mark, do you think people would have been outraged if Gordon had made a coalition with the libdems and clung onto power as prime minister. would you have been happy? And Minor, as you are talking about the private sector, do you think the government should have let the banks all go bust? great bit of private sector work there, no consequences for the rest of us eh. if your life savings had been tied up in them, would you have understood if the goverment had said "sorry, no money from us you're a private company"
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Post by RBA on May 26, 2010 8:34:16 GMT 1
Matron respect your views Of course there has had to be compromise as no party got an overall majority but i suspect both parties and therefore both sets of voters have got something of what they want which for many will be better than nothing and where is the evidence this is a right wing Tory government right of what ? Where Blair was? I doubt it Where Brown was ?in his early days perhaps in his last days ? hardly Where the Millibands are ? the truth is all the parties are very close on the centre gorund Any government coming in would have gone for big cuts given the mess we are in Will it all end in tears ?-it always does in politics!
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2010 8:51:40 GMT 1
Ooops!!, here we go again. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/10149009.stmNote the bit towards the bottom of the page, pointing out that condem education minister sarah teather (dem) last month when still in opposition and before she became a tory supporter said of the tory free school plan Education minister in the coalition, Sarah Teather, attacked the free school plan last month as a "shambles".
"Unless you give local authorities that power to plan and unless you actually make sure that there is money available... it's just a gimmick," she said during the election campaign.one month on and she is helping implement and indeed has adopted this "shambles" of a policy as her own.
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Post by nicko on May 26, 2010 9:25:50 GMT 1
What I find funny about this thread is that we have Matron taking the ****, people reacting appropriately and only Sean has a real handle on what is going on.
We are ****ed and the only way we have a chance of maybe recovering is if the politicians of this country start working together.
Though I will not go as far as stockpiling food and liquidating my assets, I believe we are going to see a lot of pain, strife and blood (world over) before the situation improves.
What breaks my heart is my 3 year old lad is going to be paying all his life for the greed, extravagance and general head stuck up @rse attitude of his fellow human beings today.
Anyway carry on with your tittle tattle.
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