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Post by pawlo on Apr 19, 2005 9:47:04 GMT 1
Does this sound familiar to any of our older members. Howard warns of race riot threat Britain could face more race riots if people believe immigration is out of control, Michael Howard has warned. The Tory leader said he feared there could be repeats of the 2001 riots in Burnley and Oldham unless people had confidence in controls on immigration. Stinks of scare mongering. And some people on here think Tony Blair will do or say anything to get elected
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Post by oranjemob 1 on Apr 19, 2005 9:56:49 GMT 1
Does this sound familiar to any of our older members. Howard warns of race riot threat Britain could face more race riots if people believe immigration is out of control, Michael Howard has warned. The Tory leader said he feared there could be repeats of the 2001 riots in Burnley and Oldham unless people had confidence in controls on immigration. Stinks of scare mongering. And some people on here think Tony Blair will do or say anything to get elected I actually attended Demo's against the man. Trouble is, to those who WANT to believe, his "Rivers of Blood" speech was a 'vision' of a future that actually came to be. Others, of course, consider his intervention a major factor in the instigation of racial problems, that wouldn't have been anything like as serious without his (calculated?) interference. Re: Blair. Irrespective of the above, or Howards nasty little tactics, of course he would say or do anything to get elected. And no, I still haven't decided how to vote
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2005 10:50:11 GMT 1
You wouldn't catch a labour of liberal candidate trying to scaremonger would you Iraq anyone?
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Post by rob on Apr 19, 2005 11:27:22 GMT 1
interesting article in the observer, they went to the same place in france, as the daily mail reported of being rammed full of asylem seekers, who were getting into the country. They'd obviously been sucessful and quick because the day after the place was pretty much deserted. Think the reporter found about 6, one of which said he was waiting to be invited in, and the other 5 stating that security had improved drastically, and that they'd been trying for a while (some upto 2 and half years) to get into Britain without sucess. Its really quite chilling how a mainstream political party can play on peoples island mentality and with the help of a couple of far right mainsream newspapers can twist even the slightest fact story and turn it into a headline grabbing attack on the government and all whom disagree with them. If i had the money i would buy both the mail and the express and close down the papers, flatten the building and build flats/hpousing to house asylem seekers (legal ones of course)
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Post by meoleshrew2 on Apr 19, 2005 11:35:03 GMT 1
interesting article in the observer, they went to the same place in france, as the daily mail reported of being rammed full of asylem seekers, who were getting into the country. They'd obviously been sucessful and quick because the day after the place was pretty much deserted. Think the reporter found about 6, one of which said he was waiting to be invited in, and the other 5 stating that security had improved drastically, and that they'd been trying for a while (some upto 2 and half years) to get into Britain without sucess. Its really quite chilling how a mainstream political party can play on peoples island mentality and with the help of a couple of far right mainsream newspapers can twist even the slightest fact story and turn it into a headline grabbing attack on the government and all whom disagree with them. If i had the money i would buy both the mail and the express and close down the papers, flatten the building and build flats/hpousing to house asylem seekers (legal ones of course) If only more people could see the same thing
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Post by stockportershrew on Apr 19, 2005 12:08:45 GMT 1
I wonder if it's more about Howard trying to mobilise his core vote and appeal to potential defectors to UKIP and the BNP. I doubt Howard actually believes they can win the election. Still there's nothing like pandering to people's base prejudices.
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Post by timgallon on Apr 19, 2005 12:13:57 GMT 1
Didn't the Government's own report on the Bradford riots conclude that the pace of immigration led in part to the riots as the the influx of immigrants was too fast for the host community to accept?
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Post by Rob on Apr 19, 2005 12:17:35 GMT 1
Howard knows that he has lost most of the arguments on the big issues like the economy, health, education etc so is focusing on scare tactics to ensure that the "Daily Mail" vote turns out for him. He hopes that by exagerating the problem of Immigrants, gypsies, MRSA etc people will vote for him out of fear. I'm sure many people will........but I wont be one of them
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Post by theriverside on Apr 19, 2005 12:27:22 GMT 1
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Post by john on Apr 19, 2005 12:28:00 GMT 1
Judging by the latest opinion polls no one is listening to
Howard anyway, and if they are they don't like what he's saying. It takes some doing but on current levels of support Howard may get less seats than William Hague did.
When you consider the mess Blair got into over Iraq it's amazing he's going to win the election so easily.
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Post by Bong on Apr 19, 2005 12:35:49 GMT 1
Dunno if anyone heard me on radio 5 phone in about this issue at 11.15ish last night. The fact that immigration levels are now causing concern in places such as Boston in Lincolnshire is worrying to me. 5% of the population there are now Polish/Belgian agricultural workers. Why? because the local youths get more in benefits than by working, so don't entertain the thought of working, so immigrant workers are actively sought WHY CAN PEOPLE NOT SEE THAT BY SORTING OUT THE MESS IN THE BENEFIT SYSTEM, AND BY PAYING AN ENHANCED MINIMUM WAGE, PEOPLE WOULD BE ENCOURAGED TO WORK RATHER THAN SPONGE AND THE LEVELS OF IMMIGRATION WOULD ALSO BE TACKLED TO BOOT That was calm, should have heard me on the radio
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Post by theriverside on Apr 19, 2005 12:54:41 GMT 1
Dunno if anyone heard me on radio 5 phone in about this issue at 11.15ish last night. The fact that immigration levels are now causing concern in places such as Boston in Lincolnshire is worrying to me. 5% of the population there are now Polish/Belgian agricultural workers. Why? because the local youths get more in benefits than by working, so don't entertain the thought of working, so immigrant workers are actively sought WHY CAN PEOPLE NOT SEE THAT BY SORTING OUT THE MESS IN THE BENEFIT SYSTEM, AND BY PAYING AN ENHANCED MINIMUM WAGE, PEOPLE WOULD BE ENCOURAGED TO WORK RATHER THAN SPONGE AND THE LEVELS OF IMMIGRATION WOULD ALSO BE TACKLED TO BOOT That was calm, should have heard me on the radio It's the cause of a lot of problems. I've lost plenty of workers over the years who are better off on benefits, and live by someone fit and well who has no interest in working because its a 'waste of his life'. Minimum wage should be up to around £6.50 p/h.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Apr 19, 2005 12:56:38 GMT 1
don't the tories disagree with the minimum wage?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2005 12:58:03 GMT 1
Raise the minimum wage by such a large amount and see prices shoot up too.
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Post by meoleshrew2 on Apr 19, 2005 13:01:50 GMT 1
It's the cause of a lot of problems. I've lost plenty of workers over the years who are better off on benefits, and live by someone fit and well who has no interest in working because its a 'waste of his life'. Minimum wage should be up to around £6.50 p/h. Those leaving to go on benefits are not better off, they just don't want to work
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Post by Bong on Apr 19, 2005 13:07:44 GMT 1
Raise the minimum wage by such a large amount and see prices shoot up too. would go up a bit but not shoot up, why...... The Billions the gov't would pay out in benefits would fall.......... which would mean they could reduce the amount of income tax they take off people......... which means people could afford more............ Seen several calculations on this over the last 3 years, all political partys accept the theory, perhaps the tories just have troble squaring it with their major party funders
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Post by theriverside on Apr 19, 2005 13:09:28 GMT 1
don't the tories disagree with the minimum wage? Just because will I vote Conservative it does not mean that I agree with everything that they have said or done in the last 1500 years. Impact of the minimum wage on our labour costs per unit was actually positive as it acted an an incentive to staff and enabled us to recruit more full timers rather than agency people. However it's still too low in my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2005 13:10:57 GMT 1
which would mean they could reduce the amount of income tax they take off people......... Tax reductions?
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Post by theriverside on Apr 19, 2005 13:11:32 GMT 1
Those leaving to go on benefits are not better off I've known it to be true in more than one case that someone has been better off not working.
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Post by meoleshrew2 on Apr 19, 2005 13:21:21 GMT 1
If thats the case then the wages at the bottom of the scale are still too poor
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Post by faginy on Apr 19, 2005 13:22:53 GMT 1
what is the current minimum wage?
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Post by theriverside on Apr 19, 2005 13:26:02 GMT 1
£5 p/h for over 21's. Less for 16-18 and 18-21's, although I'm not sure what those rates are. I've seen them on the job advert signs in McDonalds fagin so have a look the next time you take the missus out for a meal
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Post by faginy on Apr 19, 2005 13:29:30 GMT 1
£5 p/h for over 21's. Less for 16-18 and 18-21's, although I'm not sure what those rates are. I've seen them on the job advert signs in McDonalds fagin so have a look the next time you take the missus out for a meal cheap shot
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Post by Bong on Apr 19, 2005 13:31:10 GMT 1
If thats the case then the wages at the bottom of the scale are still too poor Agreed And the formula behind the Family Tax Credits are fundamentally flawed to the extent that it is rarely worth both parents working. My wife wants to work 9.30 til 3 every day term time only to be there for the kids. Found a few employers who will do it, yet when we sat down and worked it out she is better off on benefits. Sad but true
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Post by Kilburn White on Apr 19, 2005 13:46:17 GMT 1
I was chatting to some Portuguese lads in Lisbon who had parents and siblings working in Boston. They were grateful for the work, but couldn't believe the hostility they faced given that none of the locals showed any interest in filling the vacancies.
They were saying that because it's not safe for them to be out in the town's pubs, they tended to hang out in a Portuguese bar (which anyone's welcome to visit), and this has led to resentment because some of the thicker locals has taken this to mean they're not interested in mixing with the local population. It's a joke.
I watched a programme on C4 the other week where farmers in Lincs were saying that without the immigrant labour, their operations would be absolutely snookered because they'd been so unsuccessful in attracting British workers to do the hard, physical and monotonous labour.
It's not the case in Shrewsbury, but London would collapse tomorrow if it wasn't for immigrant labour. It would be great if for one week, all immigrant workers in the UK stayed at home - people would then see the importance of them. The NHS and schools in this city would be double-screwed.
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Post by rob on Apr 19, 2005 13:57:10 GMT 1
Another case point is Dover. Mis representation ahs almost created this mass fear and myth that Dover is being overun by foreigners when in fact less than 1% of the population are asylem seekers/immagrints. I'm all for freedom of speech etc, however no one can possibly state that the headlines in papers such as the daily mail and express (and recently the telegraph to an extent) are anything of than scare mongering, myth spreading unproductive pile of lies, which on increases the ignorance of the people who read such papers and helps lead to greater mis understanding and an increase in racial tensions. I think the observer proved that the mail had been talking out of its arse, but its hardly a recent phenonomen. here is the article observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,6903,1461890,00.html
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Post by john on Apr 19, 2005 15:25:03 GMT 1
The are actually quite a few immigrant workers in farms in South Shropshire and North Herefordshire. They are probably not that noticible as most are from Eastern europe.
If you are going to have a free market economy - which I guess both Labour and the Tories believe in now - then you have to let businesses employ who they want, even if it means employing "cheap" labour from abroad. I'm no expert, but presumablly while they are working here immigrant workers also pay into our tax system via income tax and national insurance? So its not as though they arn't contributing while they are here.
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Post by pawlo on Apr 19, 2005 17:18:20 GMT 1
Tell you what. Lets rid ourselves of any opposition party, shut down the press that print what we don't want to hear, and for good measure abuse voting methods so theres no way any opposition could get into power anyway. If you want to live in a society like this, then I suggest the purchase of a one way ticket to Zimbabwe. Someones a bit tetchy today Question was"does this sound familiar to any of our older board members" Well to me it sounds like Enoch Powells "rivers of blood" speech. You obviously disagree. All Tory supporters are bound to be a bit ruffled at the moment cos they know full well they are going to get stuffed at the election. I am all in favour of a free press, just wish on occassion, they would report facts rather than constantly creeping up the Conservatives backside.
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Post by theriverside on Apr 19, 2005 17:59:10 GMT 1
Someones a bit tetchy today Question was"does this sound familiar to any of our older board members" Well to me it sounds like Enoch Powells "rivers of blood" speech. You obviously disagree. All Tory supporters are bound to be a bit ruffled at the moment cos they know full well they are going to get stuffed at the election. I am all in favour of a free press, just wish on occassion, they would report facts rather than constantly creeping up the Conservatives backside. Reply wasn't particularly aimed at the original post Pab. More so at some who seem unprepared to acknowledge a different point of view, and would be happy to see a press that only reports only one way (Italy?), and House of Commons consisting of 600 Labour MP's. That's not going to give us an effective Government, or a whole range of views that people can take on board. A point about a one-sided press for the anti-Mail brigade (which I dont buy BTW). Radio 5 opened an article this morning about Michael Howard visiting a centre for students to talk about their issues. Nicky Campbells opening question was 'did he wear a beanie for the occasion?'. Pathetic.
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Post by UK Shrew on Apr 19, 2005 18:40:50 GMT 1
I do find it rather ironic that Howard has put the immigration issue at the centre of his agenda, especially as his family roots are somewhat questionnable Still if it prevents those 'thugs dressed up as a Political Party' from gaining a seat in the House of Commons, what is your problem as I'd have thought you'd all be cheering from the rafters? Do you really believe he will change anything (if elected)in regards of securing our borders from undesirables, another gang of 3 scam and nothing more? Enoch was right.
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