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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2005 14:13:53 GMT 1
We've not offered any contracts to our 3rd year pro's.
WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON!
We used to have a proud tradition of bring through youth players, the majority of Town's legends came through the ranks. The only reason the club has'nt gone bust in recent times is the fact we've been able to sell on players.
Look at Lincoln posting huge profits, they have'nt got any fancy facillities etc, what they have got is a squad of low paid players who always give 110% (take note Tinson & co) and preform well as a team. They also sell there youth players and non-league players they discover on for a profit. We've ceased to do that-last home grown player to be sold was Glyn Thompson!
Think the youth setup needs a major overhaul, for starters get a decent coach in, who can actually bring the kids through, no apprentices turning pro is alarming to say the least. Also we should be scouting local teams, this is part of Brian Williams role at the club, where is he Sunday mornings, Scouting? No, he's down Morrison's 'scouting' the frozen food isle.
Dan Bragoli scored on a regular basis in the reserves. John Grant hits low flying aircraft and he still gets in the team. I'm seriously worried! No youth=no STFC
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Post by SeanBroseley on Jan 26, 2005 14:25:07 GMT 1
Yes.
If Gary Peters felt that they were good enough to be taken on then he'd take them on.
Gary Peters is not the first manager recently not to hand contracts to a whole number of youth team players.
Edwards and Hart look like the first two to break through since Rodgers-Tolley-Murray, and they still have not stopped up to being something beyond potential, and in the meantime Murray has been cast to one side.
Two conclusions I make:
1) The graduates from the Youth system are not good enough. 2) The football club is not good enough at bringing on the successful graduates from the youth system.
Given Bosman then where do we go from here?
When I read the programmes I am shocked by the number of youth players that other clubs seem to be able to bring on compared to ourselves.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2005 14:34:04 GMT 1
Yes. If Gary Peters felt that they were good enough to be taken on then he'd take them on. Gary Peters is not the first manager recently not to hand contracts to a whole number of youth team players. Edwards and Hart look like the first two to break through since Rodgers-Tolley-Murray, and they still have not stopped up to being something beyond potential, and in the meantime Murray has been cast to one side. Two conclusions I make: 1) The graduates from the Youth system are not good enough. 2) The football club is not good enough at bringing on the successful graduates from the youth system. Given Bosman then where do we go from here? When I read the programmes I am shocked by the number of youth players that other clubs seem to be able to bring on compared to ourselves. Well said. The youth set up needs a MAJOR overhaul! The only we can compete given the high wages expected by even mediocre players at this level, tight finances, wages caps etc is through bringing through our own youth team players. Why have some 30+ journeyman in the team on 1k+ a week when we could have an 18yr old who actual gives a damn about the club! Why you raise a player through the ranks they repay you several times over and it shows. Relegation season: last players off the pitch, Rodgers & Tolley.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2005 15:10:12 GMT 1
I'm not sure where you've read about Bragoli Taffy, but I'm sure he's only scored once for the ressies.
I echo the comments about the Youth system though. I think it's a wonderful setup but it needs to be producing more.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Jan 26, 2005 15:13:23 GMT 1
At this point it is probably worth noting that Gary peters is the first manager since Jake King to visit the Centre of Excellence out at Walford
What we have today is yesterdays problems coming to the surface
What we have today is an answer, a manager who cares and understands
The good young players to come through? Tolley, Murray and Rodgers would all point to King as a key man in bringing them through
since then our managers have not been interested
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Post by scooter on Jan 26, 2005 18:54:35 GMT 1
www.shrewsburytown.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Squad/YouthsDetail/0,,10443~618539,00.html I was going to comment yesterday, but as I know very little about this batch I did not do so. If the manager does not think they are good enough, there is no point keeping them. Over the years every manager that comes in has said that the youth system is not good enough, and wants to bring more juniors through. I am not sure the system in operation is the main thing. Billy Jones is from Shrewsbury, but was playing in Crewe's first team at 16. I presume he would have chosen Crewe over us because of their higher status, even though we had Walford etc. Sometimes you get a good batch and sometimes you don't. To be fair, I can't recall any of the ones we have released coming back to haunt us. We suposedly had a cr@p set up in the 80's but Steve Perks, Wayne Williams, Mickey Brown, Tim Steele, Bernie McNally and others came through and played in the old second division. We just hope the next lot are better, which is the same thing Alex Ferguson is hoping about his current crop.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2005 21:05:56 GMT 1
I'm not sure where you've read about Bragoli Taffy, but I'm sure he's only scored once for the ressies. I echo the comments about the Youth system though. I think it's a wonderful setup but it needs to be producing more. Sorry going from last season stats thinks he got about 5 or 6 goals in the youth team-he got one apiece in the res and youth teams this season. Anyway he did look pretty decent on the VERY odd occasions i've been able to take in a reserve game. Anyone think we should get Chic back (again) to run the youth setup (AGAIN!) After all he played a part in producing Tolley, Murray, Rodgers etc whilst he was in charge of the youth setup. As with most things I'm sure GP will deal with it in his usual efficient manner once the main prioity of the 1st team is sorted out (still think the guy's great!). That's something i'll try and ask at the next supporters meeting. The way Ratcliffe & Quinn let Jake's excellent youth setup go to ruin is nothing short of a criminal!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2005 21:27:22 GMT 1
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Post by rob on Jan 26, 2005 21:47:15 GMT 1
lets not forget we are in direct competition with Manchester United, Man City,Birmingham, Villa, WBA, Wolves, Crewe and possibly Liverpool/Everton.
All of these clubs can sign up lads from the age of 9 in the Shrewsbury shropshire area, all have better facilities/or the allure that we dont have.
Crewes' system a good few years to get off of the ground and that was with one manager in charge.
If GP stays, he will oversee the youth as well as the first team, and will make sure the system is moulded the way he wants it to be molded.
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Post by Gnosallshrew on Jan 27, 2005 1:13:50 GMT 1
Our set up at Walford seems ok. Our manager should enhance our reputation and I'm sure will take an interest in the youth scheme so as to get the output required. Those changes will influence talented lads to sign for us and all will be right with the world. Hopefully.
Sad for those that didn't make it - the PE teachers of the future perhaps?
The comments on Jake show him in a good light, for Shrewsbury or ***ford he always seemed to put his heart and soul in - he would have been better as an assistant manager perhaps?
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Jan 27, 2005 1:19:21 GMT 1
Jake cared about the whole club, not just the first team
I still think Murray is a big loss in terms of potential
The Woking fans can't believe we let him go. I always thought he was better than Tolley because he could tackle
Gary was very candid about the whole thing at the Q&A thing
he basically said he was right ebhind the whole walford set up, it was brilliant, and the only thing to develop was spreading the net wider because few people can match the facilities there
He also said he was looking for lads who had been rejected by the top premiership sides because there are always some gems amongst them
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Post by rob on Jan 27, 2005 1:28:36 GMT 1
Murray altho a cracking player (when on song) liked to "socialise" (or so I am told by people who used to socialise with him)
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Jan 27, 2005 1:30:52 GMT 1
Darren currie did too, and George Best
They are footballers, not angels
They need managing
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Post by jamo on Jan 27, 2005 10:02:35 GMT 1
At this point it is probably worth noting that Gary peters is the first manager since Jake King to visit the Centre of Excellence out at Walford surely that statement can't be right ! Any manager has overall responsibility for all aspects of the playing side of the club which would have to include the centre of excellence.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Jan 27, 2005 10:15:44 GMT 1
surely that statement can't be right ! Any manager has overall responsibility for all aspects of the playing side of the club which would have to include the centre of excellence. That is what Gary Peters told the Q&A session, that he has been to Walford and they were all really excited because he was the first manager to visit since King
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Post by jamo on Jan 27, 2005 10:24:13 GMT 1
That is a shocking indictment of Ratcliffes and Quinns management style. No wonder we have no youngsters being taken on full time if they havn't been encouraged to feel an integral part of the club .
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Jan 27, 2005 10:32:05 GMT 1
Exactly!
Hardly any youth through since Jake was in charge
AND
Quinn takes over and we have at the club:
Murray, Tolley, Rodgers, G. Tolley and Edwards
Murray - leaves on a free, next time we see him is in an England Shirt
Tolley - slips backwards
Rodgers - the player we knew totally disappeared
G. Tolley - frozen out and leaves
Edwards - frozen out and was soon to leave
Quinn could not even ersuade Nev Thompson to sign a contract, he preferred to sell mobile phones and play for Stafford Rangers than have a professional contract!!!!!!!!!
We are living with yesterdays mistakes
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Post by rob on Jan 27, 2005 11:42:51 GMT 1
Necv Thompson can hardly be mentioned in the same breath can he when he was offered a contract (1 year) he had played 15 minutes of an FA Trophy game,and was behind Cramb, Rodgers,Banim,Lowe,Darby and Quinn himself. Faced with 6 players ahead of him he did what most players would do and that was look for first team football (at semi pro level) whilst try ing to build a stable career for himself. I'd congratulate him for thinking about the future Chris Murphy is one player we missed. To be fair to G. Tolley too, he has hardly gone onto set the world on fire, AFCT fans dont exactly seem impressed with him, and he's playing at the same level as Dean Craven! And to give JQ his dues, he did sign Dave Edwards and Joe Hart to the club, and also introiduce them to first team football-we shouldnt underestimate the role Edwards played last season.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2005 12:04:59 GMT 1
Twas Mark Atkins who introduced Dave Edwards to first team football before MAAS kick off about it
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Post by rob on Jan 27, 2005 12:06:21 GMT 1
ok consistant first team football and a first team contact
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Post by scooter on Jan 27, 2005 13:51:51 GMT 1
I agree it is shocking that the managers have not been out to Walford to see what is there.
BUT as I said earlier I can't think of any youngster we have let go who has gone on to anything better than the Town. Murphy is at the same level, but is he getting a game ?
It seems to me that too many have not been good enough. When we get the right ones they will be in the team.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2005 14:47:39 GMT 1
Thing is Scooter, I believe that managers need to try these kids at the deep end a few times. How many chances did Lee Bell get last year? How many did Greg get? Heck of a lot more than Glenn Tolley or Ross Stephens.
I’d also say that it’s very difficult to stand out at a lower level surrounded by poorer players. I’m sure Drysdale could do a perfectly good job at a number of Conference teams for example, and yet he is hardly man of the match week in week out at Telford’s standard even.
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