BrummieBoy
Midland League Division Two
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Post by BrummieBoy on Jan 9, 2005 14:43:02 GMT 1
I've read recent comments on this board Tinno's performances with some interest. Most people seem perfectly happy with what he's produced this season. I have not been to every game this season, so am wary of generalising from the 10 or so matches I've seen, but he scares the living daylights out of me and we need to think long and hard about whether he's the right man to partner Dave Walton at centre half.
Tinno (and Whitehead, now I come to think about it) is not a commanding figure. When Adrian Littlejohn is out-muscling you then alarm bells should start to ring. Littlejohn is clearly years past his best (which I would say was when he was at Sheffield United), yet yesterday he consistently held the ball up well, regularly gave as good as he got in the air (using Tinno's hesitancy to good effect) and generally made Tinno's afternoon a very difficult one. Again, there are many centre-forwards with more to offer than Littlejohn and just because Rushden missed at least two absolute 'must scores' we shouldn't be drawn into thinking that a clean sheet means we defended well.
At times, we did ok. Ashton did a lot of marshalling, and Moss bucked his ideas up in the second half, but never did I fell comfortable that we wouldn't concede. Rushden clearly lack confidence and a better side than them, with a little more belief in themselves, could well have put us away yesterday. Think Notts County earlier in the season: all it takes is one slip, and I feel that a great chasm can (it doesn't always, but it can) open up in our back four.
I don't want this post to be taken as a 'Tinno has completely had it' thread. After all, Walton aside I don't think we have too many better options at the moment. Tinno IS very good at the last minute saving lunge tackle (which is what many fans remember and equate to being a decent defender), but:
(1) he cannot (and refuses now to even try) kick with his left foot (neither can Stuart Whitehead actually). He is therefore vulnerable to any striker who shifts him into defending on his left side as he has to 'cross them' to get a tackle in. I'm not evening mentioning that every professional football should, surely, be reasonably confident when kicking the ball with either foot (!). Tinno clearly isn't ...
(2) he is not strong in the air. He matches centre-forwards. Rarely does he dominate them. At times he has a tendency to let the ball bounce which allows opposing forwards to use the extra second to get closer to him and make life awkward. I refer again to Littlejohn's encouraging performance against him yesterday. And, to give another example, to Langmead's against him at Kiddy
(3) he is unable to distribute the ball. The amount of times that he puts other players in trouble by choosing the wrong pass is mind-boggling. This happened at least 7 or 8 times yesterday at Rushden. I am not asking for Beckham-like flair. 10 yards, regularly, competently and without any need for heart attacks on the terraces will do.
Again, this is not a 'I want Tinno out' thread, I just fail to see why he's seen as a calming, reassuring influence. We don't have too much better at the moment, but in my mind Peters should be keeping his eyes and ears wide open. Tinno is an honest pro. But as he gets older his limitations are becoming more and more obvious. And that was as true at Rubbish and Dustbins yesterday as it has been everywhere else this season ...
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Wrighty
Midland League Division One
Posts: 465
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Post by Wrighty on Jan 9, 2005 14:57:02 GMT 1
(3) he is unable to distribute the ball. The amount of times that he puts other players in trouble by choosing the wrong pass is mind-boggling. This happened at least 7 or 8 times yesterday at Rushden. I am not asking for Beckham-like flair. 10 yards, regularly, competently and without any need for heart attacks on the terraces will do. Have to totally agree with that yesterday. A few times it could not be helped but it did seem that plenty of times he just passed the ball back to Rushden when he had plenty of time to do something constuctive with it. This was leading to more and more Rushden pressure. Overall however I think he has raised the stakes and improved this season due possibly to the competition for places in defence. I do think though that on present form a fit Stitch and Stuart Whitehead would be my preferred back 2!
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Post by Parker on Jan 9, 2005 15:38:57 GMT 1
I did not see yesterdays game so cant comment about that but from what seen of Tinno this season he has suprised me. I think he has done very well especially since GP has arrived, you dont get to keep the clean sheets we have managed lately with crap centre halves.
My only comment is the same as has always said since Waltons arrival, adn thats that I dont like to see walton and tinson playing together in a flat four. As part of a five man defence yes but not as part of a 4 4 2.
Thinking ahead to next season though and whether Darren can do it for another year well thats another question.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2005 15:49:03 GMT 1
Whitehead and Walton seems a very good partnership.
BUT- If we could sell Darby and bring in Bolland from Chester we'd be on to a brilliant defence.
We could play 3 in defence (with Asthon & Moss as wingbacks)
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Post by Parker on Jan 9, 2005 15:56:32 GMT 1
But GP has said his favoured formation is 442 so cant see him bringing in any more defenders for the time being. Its more important we sort out the consistency of our scoring.
Perhaps if Tinno doesnt get another season we may need to strengthen then.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Jan 9, 2005 18:15:19 GMT 1
It's a mystery to me how anyone can be dissatisfied with Darren Tinson's contribution this season.
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Post by timgallon on Jan 9, 2005 18:20:43 GMT 1
Tinno had a couple of shaky moments yesterday but the defence has been Ok lately. His communication with Howie seemed to be working better.
His distribution isint the best, but no worse than Whitehead who continues to leather it as hard as he can. Its a common thing with defenders at this level.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Jan 9, 2005 18:30:15 GMT 1
Tinno had a couple of shaky moments yesterday but the defence has been Ok lately. His communication with Howie seemed to be working better. His distribution isint the best, but no worse than Whitehead who continues to leather it as hard as he can. Its a common thing with defenders at this level. Just think how much worse it would be if they suddenly started to think they were footballers and started to stroke it around across the back four.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Jan 9, 2005 18:49:49 GMT 1
Tinson wa slooking into the Sun and kicking into a strong wind
we did not concede a goal
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2005 20:07:57 GMT 1
Think it's a bit harsh to be honest. Since the arrival of GP, and discounting Mansfield, I think Tinno has been exceptional. True he was turned a couple of times by Littlejohn but over 90 minutes against a R&D side desperate for a victory, the back 4 looked comfortable. I no longer fear every cross into our penalty area or every time the opposition crosses the halfway line start to panic. We tend to win 50/50s and block crosses and at the end of the day, how much did Howie have to do yesterday? If we keep getting clean sheets at this rate - 5 in 9 games under Peters (I'm counting Chester ), then we'll be ok.
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BrummieBoy
Midland League Division Two
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Posts: 237
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Post by BrummieBoy on Jan 9, 2005 20:10:02 GMT 1
Interesting points, one and all.
Throb - that is exactly my point though. Tinno's passing became progressively worse in the second half. In my mind, it degenerated to downright erratic as time went on. The sun was no where to be seen by then.
And, following on from that, it is dangerous to think that just because we didn't concede, we defended well. When you give the ball away so frequently against poor sides you can get away with it. When you do it against better sides you wont. It's also worth bearing in my mind that Rushden had at least two VERY good chances, from which they should really have scored. I grant you that chances will always 'appear' rather than be 'created', no matter how bad a team is, but I sense that we make a rod for our own back by not being positive as a defensive unit.
Sean: I take your point that Tinno's distribution is no better that Whiteheads - I quite agree actually. But that is as they are both poor passers of the ball. And you've got me wrong if you think I want to see footballing centre-halves. No thanks. I'm even wary when I see people like Rio Ferdinand p**sing around with the ball at the back. But I DO expect them to pass the ball to someone on our team who can pass. Ten yards forward to, say, O'Conner. Or whoever happens to be in midfield. That clearly isn't too much to ask ...
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Post by ssshrew on Jan 9, 2005 20:42:11 GMT 1
I agree with SeanBrosely. There's nothing wrong with Tinson. I wouldn't have minded having him in defence during our relegation season, both and defender and captain.
I think his contract was for two seasons that end this year. I have always thought that Walton was to be the replacement rather than the partner player.
Leave him be - Gary is getting him back to the player he was when he came and if he can't, no-one can.
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BrummieBoy
Midland League Division Two
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Posts: 237
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Post by BrummieBoy on Jan 9, 2005 20:49:31 GMT 1
Sssshrew, fair enough. That does seem to be the broad consensus, I agree.
Just beware. We're fourth bottom. Not a million miles away from where we were 2 years ago. Kiddy are picking up. Cambridge must break their heinous run of form soon. Will we be able to avoid being sucked back in? Hopefully ... but this is all with this 'rock-like' Darren Tinson performing (apparently) so well. I hope I am wrong, but one could quickly get a bad feeling about all this ...
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Post by ssshrew on Jan 9, 2005 20:54:07 GMT 1
Believe me I do agree with you about the 'fear' factor. I suspect after the past couple of years, I'd even have it if we were top!!!!!!!!!
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BrummieBoy
Midland League Division Two
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Posts: 237
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Post by BrummieBoy on Jan 9, 2005 20:56:27 GMT 1
I know what you mean!
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Jan 9, 2005 20:59:33 GMT 1
10 games ago I was worried about Tinson
Now he is one of the players who seems to have genuinely been revitalised by the arrival of GP
He is older and slower, but I don't think he has let us down
One massive loss for me yesterday was a poor performance by Moss, very poor by his high standards, and we missed Whitehead at right back who had been exceptional there but looked more ordinary in his usual position
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Post by ssshrew on Jan 9, 2005 21:03:14 GMT 1
To me Mossy looked like a player who had missed the last 4 games during which the team have moved on a lot under GP. It will take him time to get back into his usual swing I suspect.
In one way I was surprised that he got straight back into the team and I am one of his biggest admirers. I did wonder if Walton had been fit whether Whitehead would have stayed at right back following his recent performances with Mossy on the bench just to make a point about suspensions really.
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BrummieBoy
Midland League Division Two
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Posts: 237
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Post by BrummieBoy on Jan 9, 2005 21:04:59 GMT 1
Agree. It's the first real bad game I've seen Moss have for a long time. I can forgive any player one bad day at the office though. Like I guess you were, I was just a bit miffed more than anything else to be honest, as Mossy simply doesn't have shockers ...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2005 21:14:57 GMT 1
Sssshrew, fair enough. That does seem to be the broad consensus, I agree. Just beware. We're fourth bottom. Not a million miles away from where we were 2 years ago. Kiddy are picking up. Cambridge must break their heinous run of form soon. Will we be able to avoid being sucked back in? Hopefully ... but this is all with this 'rock-like' Darren Tinson performing (apparently) so well. I hope I am wrong, but one could quickly get a bad feeling about all this ... Agree so much with those first few lines. I still think Kiddie are going to get out of it to be honest. But at this stage of the season, it's impossible to predict with any certainty the minimum number of points to stay up. If Cambridge and R&D continue their wretched form for another 5-6 matches, then they may struggle to get many more than 40 points. If we have a couple of Saturdays where everyone wins, then it goes up. 50's the magic number. I think we're on course, and would be happy with another 7 points from the next 4 games.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2005 21:16:08 GMT 1
Agree. It's the first real bad game I've seen Moss have for a long time. I can forgive any player one bad day at the office though. Like I guess you were, I was just a bit miffed more than anything else to be honest, as Mossy simply doesn't have shockers ... He's played 10 minutes football since the first week of December though, and wasn't clicking with Edwards as Whitehead had been doing. Another thing for Gp to think about.....
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Post by rob on Jan 9, 2005 22:20:50 GMT 1
Have to admit that minus some of his distribution I thought Tinno was pretty good yesterday.
Yes he has no pace, however he reminds me of the Paul Mc Graph school of defending in that he uses his positional sense (most of the time) to counteract his lack of pace
Thought he won plenty in the air, kept the back four reasonably co-ordinated, he was quickish into the tackle and not much got past him.
It spoke volumes that Rushdens were shooting from 20 yards away as opposed to playing through the defense.
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