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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Mar 30, 2024 19:25:18 GMT 1
Is there a league one comparison chart yet for all the different clubs? Not sure if this is what you want in terms of losses - three clubs are still to declare results, before midnight tomorrow, but the rest look like this, with -ve numbers being a profit, Derby losing 30 million, and remember the three promoted teams' figures relate to them in League two Peterborough -3,532,195 Stevenage 13,458 Blackpool 259,740 Cheltenham town 529,659 Northampton Town 1,031,113 Carlisle 1,685,007 Cambridge 1,747,155 Lincoln 2,636,064 Shrewsbury 3,021,754 Portsmouth 3,090,710 Leyton Orient 3,906,083 Barnsley 4,008,082 Bolton Wanderers 4,978,428 Wycombe 5,886,303 Fleetwood 6,027,797 Oxford 6,180,529 Derby 30,358,613 Charlton NOT FILED Port vale NOT FILED Exeter NOT FILED Wow!
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Post by dibblydobbly on Mar 30, 2024 19:30:02 GMT 1
Is there a league one comparison chart yet for all the different clubs? Not sure if this is what you want in terms of losses - three clubs are still to declare results, before midnight tomorrow, but the rest look like this, with -ve numbers being a profit, Derby losing 30 million, and remember the three promoted teams' figures relate to them in League two Peterborough -3,532,195 Stevenage 13,458 Blackpool 259,740 Cheltenham town 529,659 Northampton Town 1,031,113 Carlisle 1,685,007 Cambridge 1,747,155 Lincoln 2,636,064 Shrewsbury 3,021,754 Portsmouth 3,090,710 Leyton Orient 3,906,083 Barnsley 4,008,082 Bolton Wanderers 4,978,428 Wycombe 5,886,303 Fleetwood 6,027,797 Oxford 6,180,529 Derby 30,358,613 Charlton NOT FILED Port vale NOT FILED Exeter NOT FILED couple more to add when i get a chance
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Post by jamo on Mar 30, 2024 19:39:22 GMT 1
That looks like we are doing ok relatively, some big numbers there.
My concerns are that for a lot of those clubs listed their losses are historical and increase predictably on a yearly basis, ours don’t. We are the well run club, the one governed by a safe pair of hands. In a sporting parlance we are the rank outsider coming up on the rails. These are worrying times and change in direction and leadership is needed before we become a regular on that list
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Post by dibblydobbly on Mar 30, 2024 19:41:01 GMT 1
Full list as at 6:40 Satruday with five to file:
Peterborough -3,532,195 Stevenage 13,458 Burton Albion 134,823 Blackpool 259,740 Cheltenham town 529,659 Northampton Town 1,031,113 Carlisle 1,685,007 Cambridge 1,747,155 Lincoln 2,636,064 Shrewsbury 3,021,754 Portsmouth 3,090,710 Leyton Orient 3,906,083 Barnsley 4,008,082 Bolton wanderers 4,978,428 Wycombe 5,886,303 Fleetwood 6,027,797 Oxford 6,180,529 Wigan 13,369,802 Derby 30,358,613 Charlton NOT FILED Port vale NOT FILED Exeter NOT FILED Reading NOT FILED Bristol Rovers NOT FILED
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Mar 30, 2024 19:45:18 GMT 1
Mid table mediocrity then!
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Post by Pilch on Mar 30, 2024 19:47:40 GMT 1
Mid table mediocrity then! but usually near the top must have been something unusually different last season that happened
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Mar 30, 2024 19:50:04 GMT 1
It does make you wonder why we (the club) completely lost our heads and all sense of rational thinking over a loss which is comparable to every other club.
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Post by Pilch on Mar 30, 2024 19:58:50 GMT 1
It does make you wonder why we (the club) completely lost our heads and all sense of rational thinking over a loss which is comparable to every other club. because in our case it was unsustainable and we then needed a new manager due to the one in place not being prepared to work with the club to put it right
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Post by MartinB on Mar 31, 2024 7:49:21 GMT 1
Charlton Athletic Bristol Rovers Exeter City Reading Port Vale All still not filed accounts for some reason Reading not showing as due until 30th June 2024
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Post by dibblydobbly on Mar 31, 2024 9:10:24 GMT 1
Charlton Athletic Bristol Rovers Exeter City Reading Port Vale All still not filed accounts for some reason Reading not showing as due until 30th June 2024 You can obtain an extension of three months from companies house if you have a valid reason OR change your accounting period by one day which gives three more months to file.
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Post by cabanas2017 on Mar 31, 2024 9:19:58 GMT 1
I must be missing this how has a tight run ship been allowed to go off course, are we saying the Board their eye off the ball, or just watched it happen without any action to resolve the ongoing issue…. I don’t see an answer where the operating cash is reduced from 1.6 million to 0.08 million or is it part of what has been accounted for , like salaries and no contribution from PL.
I don’t think supporters have ever said the club should splash the cash, we think we know our club and they are very good at holding such information away from supporters until they have to like at the time of the accounts be published.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Mar 31, 2024 9:44:06 GMT 1
I must be missing this how has a tight run ship been allowed to go off course, are we saying the Board their eye off the ball, or just watched it happen without any action to resolve the ongoing issue…. I don’t see an answer where the operating cash is reduced from 1.6 million to 0.08 million or is it part of what has been accounted for , like salaries and no contribution from PL. I don’t think supporters have ever said the club should splash the cash, we think we know our club and they are very good at holding such information away from supporters until they have to like at the time of the accounts be published. They might be trying to spin it unofficially as the sole responsibility of two cowboys, but the warning signs have been there for years that we can only post profits (small ones at that) if we sell high value players and have cup runs that bring in prize money, gate receipts and tv money. When you factor in none of that happened, plus lack of premier league money, Covid impacts still lingering, rampant inflation and a small percentage of unnecessary expenditure it’s easy to see how such a loss can be easily achieved. A loss of £3m is eye opening and clearly not ideal, however it’s comparative with other clubs, the real concern is the cashflow position.
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Post by cabanas2017 on Mar 31, 2024 9:56:29 GMT 1
I think what is plain to see is that on man run/ owned clubs by the likes of Roland, the previous guy at Accrington even Pryve Griffiths at Wrexham back in the day do not have the wealth to run a football league club as it will alway be a financial ordeal. Apart from finding a new owner they think is suitable the other issue is it is extremely difficult for them to walk away from the club they love.
You all know where I stand with RW, I never doubt his love and commitment to the club, I just hope he doesn’t take us out of the EFL or worse, but I don’t see any other scenario at this moment in time 😦
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Post by shrewswolf on Mar 31, 2024 10:47:41 GMT 1
There’s a lot of talk on this thread and yet most of seems to be about wage bills and hotels. The former is a significant increase that a club of our size has to rectify (and already has, somehow, if MM is to be believed). The latter will be a drop in the ocean.
The other £2.7m is the absolutely major problem. Unfortunately the only way we’ll get it back is Roland cutting back drastically & it’s not going to look pretty on or off the pitch as he does it.
We need investment, and we need it now. We need to all agree that the truth will be somewhere in the middle - Roland has had to turn down and be wary of some absolute rogues, but has also turned away plenty that would’ve been as safe as his £3m losing pair of hands, at least.
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Post by Pilch on Mar 31, 2024 11:21:12 GMT 1
I must be missing this how has a tight run ship been allowed to go off course, are we saying the Board their eye off the ball, or just watched it happen without any action to resolve the ongoing issue…. I don’t see an answer where the operating cash is reduced from 1.6 million to 0.08 million or is it part of what has been accounted for , like salaries and no contribution from PL. I don’t think supporters have ever said the club should splash the cash, we think we know our club and they are very good at holding such information away from supporters until they have to like at the time of the accounts be published. im sure you were suggesting we would go down this season unless RW increased the budget, ( we still could)
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 31, 2024 11:21:35 GMT 1
Charlton Athletic Bristol Rovers Exeter City Reading Port Vale All still not filed accounts for some reason Reading not showing as due until 30th June 2024 You can obtain an extension of three months from companies house if you have a valid reason OR change your accounting period by one day which gives three more months to file. A feather in our cap that we faced up to it, no delay, no one day change to gain another three months. Get the feeling that when the magnitude of our problems hit the board in the face they acted swiftly to improve things.
There are EFL clubs on lower budgets than ours, we just have to be patient with the new set up. Unless and until a "white knight" rides in we are plucky little Shrewsbury Town and I'm proud of that. Need some good cup runs next season to get us back in the headlines and making money.
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 31, 2024 11:57:27 GMT 1
It does make you wonder why we (the club) completely lost our heads and all sense of rational thinking over a loss which is comparable to every other club. because in our case it was unsustainable and we then needed a new manager due to the one in place not being prepared to work with the club to put it right Our then manager almost certainly had a view about the proposed new strategy. He " doesn't see the need for a Director of Football" stroudtimes.com/forest-green-no-need-for-a-director-of-football/
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Post by Pilch on Mar 31, 2024 11:57:27 GMT 1
Full list as at 6:40 Satruday with five to file: Peterborough -3,532,195 Stevenage 13,458 Burton Albion 134,823 Blackpool 259,740 Cheltenham town 529,659 Northampton Town 1,031,113 Carlisle 1,685,007 Cambridge 1,747,155 Lincoln 2,636,064 Shrewsbury 3,021,754 Portsmouth 3,090,710 Leyton Orient 3,906,083 Barnsley 4,008,082 Bolton wanderers 4,978,428 Wycombe 5,886,303 Fleetwood 6,027,797 Oxford 6,180,529 Wigan 13,369,802 Derby 30,358,613 Charlton NOT FILED Port vale NOT FILED Exeter NOT FILED Reading NOT FILED Bristol Rovers NOT FILED can someone remind me again why the likes of Delves, Hughes, Passant all ran for the hills after finding out the nitty gritty of what running a football club involves ? next season we could be competing with stoke, the owner is only worth about 10 billion pounds , or maybe we could chuck 30 million at it like derby who didn't even make the play offs seems to me like football is heading for a crash wake up call
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Post by Pilch on Mar 31, 2024 12:03:23 GMT 1
because in our case it was unsustainable and we then needed a new manager due to the one in place not being prepared to work with the club to put it right Our then manager almost certainly had a view about the proposed new strategy He " doesn't see the need for a Director of Football" stroudtimes.com/forest-green-no-need-for-a-director-of-football/ put it this way, give me a blank chequebook , I'll nip down and bring forest green back up next season, not quite sure what sort of shape they will be in but the fans wont mind if I get them up ;-)
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Post by cabanas2017 on Mar 31, 2024 12:29:45 GMT 1
I must be missing this how has a tight run ship been allowed to go off course, are we saying the Board their eye off the ball, or just watched it happen without any action to resolve the ongoing issue…. I don’t see an answer where the operating cash is reduced from 1.6 million to 0.08 million or is it part of what has been accounted for , like salaries and no contribution from PL. I don’t think supporters have ever said the club should splash the cash, we think we know our club and they are very good at holding such information away from supporters until they have to like at the time of the accounts be published. im sure you were suggesting we would go down this season unless RW increased the budget, ( we still could) Don’t think I said it like that, but increasing the player budget is not necessarily splashing the cash and cuts can be made elsewhere to allow this. Also, not for these accounts but is having a DoF a valuable investment and how much has the club spent on legal costs between April and June last year which it then dropped this season?
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Mar 31, 2024 12:46:29 GMT 1
Full list as at 6:40 Satruday with five to file: Peterborough -3,532,195 Stevenage 13,458 Burton Albion 134,823 Blackpool 259,740 Cheltenham town 529,659 Northampton Town 1,031,113 Carlisle 1,685,007 Cambridge 1,747,155 Lincoln 2,636,064 Shrewsbury 3,021,754 Portsmouth 3,090,710 Leyton Orient 3,906,083 Barnsley 4,008,082 Bolton wanderers 4,978,428 Wycombe 5,886,303 Fleetwood 6,027,797 Oxford 6,180,529 Wigan 13,369,802 Derby 30,358,613 Charlton NOT FILED Port vale NOT FILED Exeter NOT FILED Reading NOT FILED Bristol Rovers NOT FILED can someone remind me again why the likes of Delves, Hughes, Passant all ran for the hills after finding out the nitty gritty of what running a football club involves ? next season we could be competing with stoke, the owner is only worth about 10 billion pounds , or maybe we could chuck 30 million at it like derby who didn't even make the play offs seems to me like football is heading for a crash wake up call James Hughes served as a director for 13 years didn't he? He didn't run anywhere. Passant would own the club if it had been sold.
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Post by tarporleyblue on Mar 31, 2024 12:59:14 GMT 1
Big onus on our CEO to increase our turnover; same goes for our Director of Football to unearth gems that will recoup us £ millions in transfer fees in years to come.
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 31, 2024 13:42:34 GMT 1
Our then manager almost certainly had a view about the proposed new strategy He " doesn't see the need for a Director of Football" stroudtimes.com/forest-green-no-need-for-a-director-of-football/ put it this way, give me a blank chequebook , I'll nip down and bring forest green back up next season, not quite sure what sort of shape they will be in but the fans wont mind if I get them up ;-) You could be on to something there: "the fans wont mind if I get them up" Our Chairman is most certainly a fan. If there is a legitimate reason for BC allowing overspend it could be because our Chairman had appointed a "big time charlie" manager and the CEO felt this was Roland's big push to finally get promoted. Some play off games, maybe a lucrative Wembley final, maybe the big prize... Everyone in the Club's management team would be lauded and perhaps our biggest fan, the Chairman, would have been delighted. Any loss wouldn't have seemed so bad then.
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Post by southshropblue on Mar 31, 2024 13:54:56 GMT 1
I think the figures show a lot of clubs lost money because of the pandemic Premier league not paying up etc I can accept we overspent last year and obviously all the decision makers ie manager and Chairman and board bear responsibility for that Many of those have now left the club I understand the chairman must be embarrassed by this loss but as I said above there are external reasons as well as internal ones we need to unearth some players and hope MM can do that with PH and Doigy We will see
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Post by sheltonsalopian on Mar 31, 2024 16:45:00 GMT 1
Being realistic, with a turnover of 6.2 million and if the club aimed to break even at the end of every season that would leave the club a mid table league two team.
We’ve done well to keep our head above water in league one but without outside investment that will always be the ceiling.
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Post by ProudSalopian on Mar 31, 2024 17:26:42 GMT 1
Being realistic, with a turnover of 6.2 million and if the club aimed to break even at the end of every season that would leave the club a mid table league two team. We’ve done well to keep our head above water in league one but without outside investment that will always be the ceiling. You can say we are at a crossroad but to be honest, we've been stuck there for years. With our current turnover we are going to struggle to complete at this level and we have a chairman/board who either don't have the funds or aren't willing to invest into the club on a long term basis, that is not a criticism of Roland, just a fact. I get the argument that we have to cut our cloth to ensure we have a club to support but simply surviving shouldn't be the height of our ambition. So the question is, what is the strategy/aim/ambition of the board of this club? I expect we won't get told this so we just keep plodding along and expecting to be happy with staying up in L1
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Post by Rusholme Ruffian on Apr 1, 2024 11:04:39 GMT 1
Being realistic, with a turnover of 6.2 million and if the club aimed to break even at the end of every season that would leave the club a mid table league two team. We’ve done well to keep our head above water in league one but without outside investment that will always be the ceiling. You can say we are at a crossroad but to be honest, we've been stuck there for years. With our current turnover we are going to struggle to complete at this level and we have a chairman/board who either don't have the funds or aren't willing to invest into the club on a long term basis, that is not a criticism of Roland, just a fact. I get the argument that we have to cut our cloth to ensure we have a club to support but simply surviving shouldn't be the height of our ambition. So the question is, what is the strategy/aim/ambition of the board of this club? I expect we won't get told this so we just keep plodding along and expecting to be happy with staying up in L1 Without investment how does the club compete against the upper echalons of this league? But also is it realistic to? Shrewsbury is a small town in minimally populated county and so quite a small supporter base. On my count 1/3rd of the league (8 teams) this year in league one have been in the the premier league. There is often the odd outlier (Lincoln and Stevenage this year) but largely the top of the league is large clubs. Shrewsbury aren't one of them
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Post by Pilch on Apr 1, 2024 11:56:55 GMT 1
You can say we are at a crossroad but to be honest, we've been stuck there for years. With our current turnover we are going to struggle to complete at this level and we have a chairman/board who either don't have the funds or aren't willing to invest into the club on a long term basis, that is not a criticism of Roland, just a fact. I get the argument that we have to cut our cloth to ensure we have a club to support but simply surviving shouldn't be the height of our ambition. So the question is, what is the strategy/aim/ambition of the board of this club? I expect we won't get told this so we just keep plodding along and expecting to be happy with staying up in L1 Without investment how does the club compete against the upper echalons of this league? But also is it realistic too? Shrewsbury is a small town in minimally populated county and so quite a small supporter base. On my count 1/3rd of the league (8 teams) this year in league one have been in the the premier league. There is often the odd outlier (Lincoln and Stevenage this year) but largely the top of the league is large clubs. Shrewsbury aren't one of them one of my earliest opinions on football was that eventually the leagues would assemble the clubs in order of their average attendance / fanbase, I still think their is something in that Lincoln average over 8000 , top half of league 1, they might be having a decent season but not entirely out of place, stevenage sure are punching above their weight, but seemed to have got lucky this season with a guy who is a class above that scores goals for fun, even if stevenage sneak up, I say 3 or 4 years down the line they are back struggling in league 2 currently town are 19th in league 1 average attendance. ( and we've had some decent away followings) there are 12 sides in league 2 with a higher average this season for 10 years running, we've punched jus above our weight not the most positive post ever but it might explain why i often question other opinions from fans who think we should be in the championship ;-)s
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 1, 2024 12:10:40 GMT 1
Football clubs have always depended on someone at the board level willing and able to put money into the club to keep it going and competitive. And looking to those numbers listed above that very much remains the case today. Whilst once it was the local factory owner giving their employees some entertainment on a Saturday afternoon things have since moved on a tad.
As it would be interesting to see the makeup of the boardrooms elsewhere in League One. As mentioned earlier for example, looking to Oxford (as we played them on Friday) they are part owned by Indonesian billionaires. Today's opposition are owned by Wael Al-Qadi and Hussain Al-Saaed with Al-Qadi's net worth being reported at 550 million (Al-Saaed's net worth is not known but you suspect it would be something similar). I guess you could say we are old skool with having a local businessman and supporter making up the board. But clearly a good few clubs have moved on from that whilst we haven't and I guess you could argue that can put us at a disadvantage. With RW having been chairman for so long you just wonder what we may have missed out on, if there has been others from further afield who would have been interested in getting involved and what that could mean. That Scandinavian rumour, for example. Instead we are a club that just seems stuck in the bottom half of the 3rd.
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Post by cabanas2017 on Apr 1, 2024 12:16:41 GMT 1
Without investment how does the club compete against the upper echalons of this league? But also is it realistic too? Shrewsbury is a small town in minimally populated county and so quite a small supporter base. On my count 1/3rd of the league (8 teams) this year in league one have been in the the premier league. There is often the odd outlier (Lincoln and Stevenage this year) but largely the top of the league is large clubs. Shrewsbury aren't one of them one of my earliest opinions on football was that eventually the leagues would assemble the clubs in order of their average attendance / fanbase, I still think their is something in that Lincoln average over 8000 , top half of league 1, they might be having a decent season but not entirely out of place, stevenage sure are punching above their weight, but seemed to have got lucky this season with a guy who is a class above that scores goals for fun, even if stevenage sneak up, I say 3 or 4 years down the line they are back struggling in league 2 currently town are 19th in league 1 average attendance. ( and we've had some decent away followings) there are 12 sides in league 2 with a higher average this season for 10 years running, we've punched jus above our weight not the most positive post ever but it might explain why i often question other opinions from fans who think we should be in the championship ;-)s Good post, One of my first league matches was Town v Bristol Rovers 50 odd years ago, and in that course of time has been pretty much a regular fixture, same goes for many of the teams we played that season with the odd exception. Some of those teams have also had a spell in tier 2. Nothing wrong with aspiring for a spell at that level again though with sensible planning. I don’t think Town have punched above weight though we are our natural position I believe.Town didn’t break the bank to get to the 2nd tier in 1979 and nearly did under Hurst's previous spell, sometimes things come together.
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