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Post by Pilch on Mar 22, 2024 16:23:20 GMT 1
it says in your original post it was the colours of the training kit I'm guessing there was an element of West Ham in that kit back then
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Post by belfastshrew on Mar 22, 2024 19:52:16 GMT 1
It's a bizarre move from Nike. At first glance I thought the colours were some kind of reference to the Pride movement. To hear it's some obscure reference to 1966 is stupid.
A question...why even have a flag on the collar?? Just get rid of it? What purpose does it serve??
I can only think Nike have done this to be deliberately controversial, everyone is talking about the England shirt.
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Post by belfastshrew on Mar 22, 2024 19:53:07 GMT 1
Oh and cost makes me sick. I hope none of you buy it.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Mar 23, 2024 17:33:34 GMT 1
It is the colours of the gender fluid flag seen at pride marches, nowt to do with 1966.
First it was the armband, then it was the laces, now it is a flag on the shirt.
Imagine being a marketing executive who thought your agenda was more important than the integrity of an actual flag?
Imagine wanting to "show support" for something so much you decided to force everyone else to wear your endorsement?
Imagine a British company doing that to the American flag?
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Post by servernaside on Mar 23, 2024 18:00:28 GMT 1
I suspect that one day soon, we will all have to be gender-fluid in order to get into matches.
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Post by neilsalop on Mar 24, 2024 11:22:41 GMT 1
Perhaps we should use the flag of the country that St. George was from
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Post by gainsparkshrew on Mar 24, 2024 11:31:16 GMT 1
This "flag" incorporates blue and purple in reference to the 1966 training kit!....which was blue..there wasn't any purple in it.
Load of marketing pigswill. I would applaud any player that covered it up with tape or a marker pen.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 24, 2024 12:27:20 GMT 1
What would the Welsh make of a blue dragon ? Not much but I won't be surprised if they messed with it
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Post by servernaside on Mar 24, 2024 15:26:17 GMT 1
I always thought that it was the customer who chose the shirt design. The manufacturer merely makes the shirt to the customer specification.
Have I missed something in this increasingly dysfunctional world?
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Post by The Clash 1966 on Mar 24, 2024 15:28:20 GMT 1
Perhaps we should use the flag of the country that St. George was from At least it would be a nice red colour. 😁
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Post by servernaside on Mar 24, 2024 16:29:18 GMT 1
Perhaps we should use the flag of the country that St. George was from At least it would be a nice red colour. 😁 It depends on which history you read. He was apparently of Macedonian Greek descent born in Cappadocia in present day Turkey, which at that time was part of the Roman Empire. He lived most of his life and was subsequently executed for his faith, in his mother's home city of Lydda (Lod) in present day Israel. Quite a lot of flag colours involved therefore, but none of them containing purple. I suspect that much of St. George's 'history' is sketchy at best, just like Nike's explanation regarding the re-invented colours of the England flag.
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Post by gainsparkshrew on Mar 24, 2024 16:56:59 GMT 1
I always thought that it was the customer who chose the shirt design. The manufacturer merely makes the shirt to the customer specification. Have I missed something in this increasingly dysfunctional world? Yep,hence Dancin's original post
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Post by neilsalop on Mar 24, 2024 17:51:42 GMT 1
At least it would be a nice red colour. 😁 It depends on which history you read. He was apparently of Macedonian Greek descent born in Cappadocia in present day Turkey, which at that time was part of the Roman Empire. He lived most of his life and was subsequently executed for his faith, in his mother's home city of Lydda (Lod) in present day Israel. Quite a lot of flag colours involved therefore, but none of them containing purple. I suspect that much of St. George's 'history' is sketchy at best, just like Nike's explanation regarding the re-invented colours of the England flag. Perhaps if there were an actual connection between St. George and England there would be an argument for having the cross, but until the third crusade St. George wasn't even in the picture and he wasn't officially adopted as patron saint until 1348. Prior to that it was St. Edmund who actually fought alongside King Alfred and was king of East Anglia. Fyi his flag was a white dragon on a red background. He was martyred in 869, being tied to a tree and shot with arrows by viking invaders. St. George on the hand never set foot in England and I can say with utmost certainty that he never killed a dragon.
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Post by servernaside on Mar 24, 2024 18:03:53 GMT 1
It depends on which history you read. He was apparently of Macedonian Greek descent born in Cappadocia in present day Turkey, which at that time was part of the Roman Empire. He lived most of his life and was subsequently executed for his faith, in his mother's home city of Lydda (Lod) in present day Israel. Quite a lot of flag colours involved therefore, but none of them containing purple. I suspect that much of St. George's 'history' is sketchy at best, just like Nike's explanation regarding the re-invented colours of the England flag. Perhaps if there were an actual connection between St. George and England there would be an argument for having the cross, but until the third crusade St. George wasn't even in the picture and he wasn't officially adopted as patron saint until 1348. Prior to that it was St. Edmund who actually fought alongside King Alfred and was king of East Anglia. Fyi his flag was a white dragon on a red background. He was martyred in 869, being tied to a tree and shot with arrows by viking invaders. St. George on the hand never set foot in England and I can say with utmost certainty that he never killed a dragon. Many patron saints around the world have little, or no connection with the countries, or indeed causes they represent. With regard to the design of the England flag, as you have stated, it has been around for many centuries and should therefore remain as it is...despite what Nike may think.
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Post by neilsalop on Mar 24, 2024 18:08:44 GMT 1
Perhaps if there were an actual connection between St. George and England there would be an argument for having the cross, but until the third crusade St. George wasn't even in the picture and he wasn't officially adopted as patron saint until 1348. Prior to that it was St. Edmund who actually fought alongside King Alfred and was king of East Anglia. Fyi his flag was a white dragon on a red background. He was martyred in 869, being tied to a tree and shot with arrows by viking invaders. St. George on the hand never set foot in England and I can say with utmost certainty that he never killed a dragon. Many patron saints around the world have little, or no connection with the countries, or indeed causes they represent. With regard to the design of the England flag, as you have stated, it has been around for many centuries and should therefore remain as it is...despite what Nike may think. No-one is forcing you to buy the shirt. Perhaps you could boycott Nike in protest, I'm sure they'll be devastated to hear it. Fwiw I couldn't really give a toss about a tiny design on the neck of a football shirt, but no doubt it's affecting the flag-shaggers more. Bless.
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Post by mattmw on Mar 24, 2024 19:18:29 GMT 1
As a rather older fan I can recall when it was the Union Flag that was more associated with England rather than the St George's flag. When you look back at 1966 a lot of the flags in the crowd were union flags and that continued through the 70s and 80s. The 1982 world cup kit kind of had a red white and blue design on the shoulders which I to be a reflection of the Union Flag. I think it was only really around the mid 90s and probably Euro 96 that the St Georges flag become the dominant one in the crowd. So the use of the St George crest on England merchandise is relatively new From a design point of view I can imagine designing a new England shirt is rather a limiting process as effectively the main colour is limted to a plain white or red top with a three lions badge on, and that is pretty limiting in design terms, so they have to add a bit of difference in the sleaves and collar of the shirt. Probably the best way for the FA to avoid such issues in the future is to just keep to a plain white kit with the three lions on, and nothing else and not change it for at least 10 years to avoid any future design issues. Can't think of any reason not to do that in the future
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Post by Worthingshrew on Mar 24, 2024 22:04:24 GMT 1
Never bought an England shirt for myself in my life, and won’t be starting now.
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Post by MartinB on Mar 25, 2024 7:48:33 GMT 1
As a rather older fan I can recall when it was the Union Flag that was more associated with England rather than the St George's flag. When you look back at 1966 a lot of the flags in the crowd were union flags and that continued through the 70s and 80s. The 1982 world cup kit kind of had a red white and blue design on the shoulders which I to be a reflection of the Union Flag. I think it was only really around the mid 90s and probably Euro 96 that the St Georges flag become the dominant one in the crowd. So the use of the St George crest on England merchandise is relatively new From a design point of view I can imagine designing a new England shirt is rather a limiting process as effectively the main colour is limted to a plain white or red top with a three lions badge on, and that is pretty limiting in design terms, so they have to add a bit of difference in the sleaves and collar of the shirt. Probably the best way for the FA to avoid such issues in the future is to just keep to a plain white kit with the three lions on, and nothing else and not change it for at least 10 years to avoid any future design issues. Can't think of any reason not to do that in the future The change also came when Scotland and Wales switched to not using the National Anthem so having on tunes and using own flags
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Post by dibblydobbly on Mar 25, 2024 9:21:15 GMT 1
As a rather older fan I can recall when it was the Union Flag that was more associated with England rather than the St George's flag. When you look back at 1966 a lot of the flags in the crowd were union flags and that continued through the 70s and 80s. The 1982 world cup kit kind of had a red white and blue design on the shoulders which I to be a reflection of the Union Flag. I think it was only really around the mid 90s and probably Euro 96 that the St Georges flag become the dominant one in the crowd. So the use of the St George crest on England merchandise is relatively new From a design point of view I can imagine designing a new England shirt is rather a limiting process as effectively the main colour is limted to a plain white or red top with a three lions badge on, and that is pretty limiting in design terms, so they have to add a bit of difference in the sleaves and collar of the shirt. Probably the best way for the FA to avoid such issues in the future is to just keep to a plain white kit with the three lions on, and nothing else and not change it for at least 10 years to avoid any future design issues. Can't think of any reason not to do that in the future Their contract with the kit supplier will as you suspect, force them to change the kit periodically, so change it will.
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Post by Valerioch on Mar 25, 2024 10:00:18 GMT 1
Wouldn’t pay £12.50 for that abomination, let alone £125.
Disgusting
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Post by Pilch on Mar 25, 2024 11:50:34 GMT 1
Everyone loves a traditional kit with no changes on it
By the way when did the England kit first have a St George's flag in it ?
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Post by Pilch on Mar 25, 2024 11:52:01 GMT 1
It was 1998 by the way , not sure how fans coped before that 😝
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Mar 25, 2024 12:51:11 GMT 1
From a design point of view I can imagine designing a new England shirt is rather a limiting process as effectively the main colour is limted to a plain white or red top with a three lions badge on, and that is pretty limiting in design terms, so they have to add a bit of difference in the sleaves and collar of the shirt. I worked with designers for years and they need to show they're earning their fees by being imaginative and creative, I'm pretty sure what you describe is exactly what happened. Had I been the client I would have challenged the change to the flag on the grounds that the original it is what is wanted in a design, simple, memorable with high recognition.
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Post by Pilch on Mar 25, 2024 13:07:27 GMT 1
From a design point of view I can imagine designing a new England shirt is rather a limiting process as effectively the main colour is limted to a plain white or red top with a three lions badge on, and that is pretty limiting in design terms, so they have to add a bit of difference in the sleaves and collar of the shirt. I worked with designers for years and they need to show they're earning their fees by being imaginative and creative, I'm pretty sure what you describe is exactly what happened. Had I been the client I would have challenged the change to the flag on the grounds that the original it is what is wanted in a design, simple, memorable with high recognition. and every now and then do a change that causes controversy and adds an amazing amount of interest , and then change it back to create an amazing amount of sales
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Post by Worthingshrew on Mar 25, 2024 13:24:42 GMT 1
I reckon that a fair number of fans who went to Wembley in 1966, wore a shirt and tie.
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Post by servernaside on Mar 25, 2024 13:28:16 GMT 1
I reckon that a fair number of fans who went to Wembley in 1966, wore a shirt and tie. And a trilby hat
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Post by Pilch on Mar 25, 2024 13:30:13 GMT 1
I reckon that a fair number of fans who went to Wembley in 1966, wore a shirt and tie. I waved a Union Jack and probably would have moaned if they were given a st georges flag instead
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Mar 25, 2024 18:40:47 GMT 1
It was 1998 by the way , not sure how fans coped before that 😝
It is not about not having the St Georges cross on the kit.
It is about having a manipulated one.
Kits don't normally have any flag on it.
Which is why it makes it even more strange they decided we needed a gender fluid rainbow pride St Georges Cross when we normally don't even have a St Georges Cross.
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Post by Pilch on Mar 25, 2024 19:29:24 GMT 1
anyone know if there is a helpline ?
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Post by belfastshrew on Mar 25, 2024 20:33:17 GMT 1
Perhaps we should use the flag of the country that St. George was from At least it would be a nice red colour. 😁 Complete with an islamic crescent? 🤣 🇹🇷
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