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Post by stuttgartershrew on Dec 12, 2019 10:12:43 GMT 1
Boris tells lies, all politicians tell lies. Corbyn tells lies; Awful and I suspect incredibly difficult decision ahead for many people today. What a s**te state of affairs. I guess most people voting today wont be voting for Who they want to lead the country, but rather than the 'least worst person' to lead it. I know that i wouldnt actually 'want' any of them to be the new PM but one of them will win anyway. Very poor situation for the country. Yeah, I reckon that's about it. We're at the stage now that people are getting voted in because who they are not rather than who they are. Johnson is incredibly lucky in his opposition. Well, I think he is. Lets wait and see I guess.
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Boris
Dec 12, 2019 10:23:24 GMT 1
Post by ssshrew on Dec 12, 2019 10:23:24 GMT 1
But, but it doesn’t matter who gets in because life is going to be wonderful whoever it is - they all said so !!
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Dec 12, 2019 10:28:35 GMT 1
I think everyone is going to have to take a bite of a s**t sandwich. Depending who you are rooting for and whether they win or not will determine whether its just the one bite or two.
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Post by northwestman on Dec 12, 2019 10:48:53 GMT 1
Many Tories know well enough that the main requirement for liking Johnson is ignorance of his true character. The more he is exposed, the wider grows the gap between mask and man. His amiable act works in short bursts in front of receptive audiences. Too long in the limelight and he struggles to stay in role. Not only does he lack decency and compassion, but he cannot even fake them. Johnson’s nationalist train, driven by locomotive mendacity, can be derailed only by a barricade of opposition MPs. There are feasible configurations of a hung parliament with a sufficient number of Liberal Democrats and independents to make a change of leader the condition of buttressing a Labour-led administration. It is just about possible, for one day more at least, to imagine a Britain that is spared the lunacy of Brexit, and a Labour party no longer in thrall to Corbyn. But the combination defies electoral probability. Those of us who wish for it must be reconciled to a darker prospect. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/11/brexit-boris-johnson-corbyn-election-result?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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Boris
Dec 12, 2019 11:04:18 GMT 1
Post by sheltonsalopian on Dec 12, 2019 11:04:18 GMT 1
My one problem with the line that "all politicians are crap" line is if that is the case, why does this country keep voting the same party in? What motivation do those politicians have to improve if they get voted in regardless of their performance?
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Boris
Dec 12, 2019 11:41:20 GMT 1
Post by staffordshrew on Dec 12, 2019 11:41:20 GMT 1
Boris, soon to be the fastest milkman in the west.
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Boris
Dec 12, 2019 11:54:14 GMT 1
Post by northwestman on Dec 12, 2019 11:54:14 GMT 1
Boris, soon to be the fastest milkman in the west. And he galloped into Downing Street, his badge upon his chest His name was Boris, and he drove the fastest milk cart in the west.
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Post by staffordshrew on Dec 12, 2019 12:01:15 GMT 1
Could do so much with those lyrics as Boris has a similar penchant for the ladies. Boris is a bit more Robin Askwith though.
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Boris
Dec 12, 2019 12:48:56 GMT 1
via mobile
ssshrew likes this
Post by GrizzlyShrew on Dec 12, 2019 12:48:56 GMT 1
But, but it doesn’t matter who gets in because life is going to be wonderful whoever it is - they all said so !! And after today none of those who were so desparate for your votes will give a flying **** for you, me or anyone else who voted for them.
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Boris
Dec 12, 2019 12:58:32 GMT 1
Post by ssshrew on Dec 12, 2019 12:58:32 GMT 1
Indeed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2019 12:59:06 GMT 1
But, but it doesn’t matter who gets in because life is going to be wonderful whoever it is - they all said so !! And after today none of those who were so desparate for your votes will give a flying **** for you, me or anyone else who voted for them. Well there is one cast iron certainty that the Tories won't. They treat my constituency as a sinecure and I have seen hide nor hair of my millionaire current MP who is seeking the foregone re-election.
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Post by northwestman on Dec 12, 2019 13:57:05 GMT 1
And after today none of those who were so desparate for your votes will give a flying **** for you, me or anyone else who voted for them. Well there is one cast iron certainty that the Tories won't. They treat my constituency as a sinecure and I have seen hide nor hair of my millionaire current MP who is seeking the foregone re-election. I take that he's either Paterson (majority 16,355) or Dunne (majority 19,286). Not really worth them wasting money turning out any election literature, and certainly not worth them talking to us plebs.
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Post by Exkeeper on Dec 12, 2019 19:42:26 GMT 1
Boris, soon to be the fastest milkman in the west. If that starts delivering milk in my street, I will buy a Rottweiler.
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Post by venceremos on Dec 12, 2019 20:34:33 GMT 1
sureley even the most furvant Tory supporter realises that Corbyn does and says what he believes to be true and not for any personal gain. I think he does so in order to advance his political career (or at times damage limitation for the same purpose). So yeah, he does so for personal gain. Just like the rest of 'em. All fine and dandy people continually pointing to Boris and Tory lies yet the biggest whopper that I suspect will play a bigger role than any in this election is Corbyn and Labour telling over 17 million people that they would respect their vote...👍 Except that's not what the 2017 manifesto said. Not going to reproduce the whole thing but the first and last three paragraphs are pertinent: CHAPTER 02 – NEGOTIATING BREXIT
Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first. We will prioritise jobs and living standards, build a close new relationship with the EU, protect workers’ rights and environmental standards, provide certainty to EU nationals and give a meaningful role to Parliament throughout negotiations.
We will end Theresa May’s reckless approach to Brexit, and seek to unite the country around a Brexit deal that works for every community in Britain.
We will scr@p the Conservatives’ Brexit White Paper and replace it with fresh negotiating priorities that have a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union – which are essential for maintaining industries, jobs and businesses in Britain. Labour will always put jobs and the economy first.
We will also improve engagement and dialogue with the devolved administrations and seek to ensure the final Brexit deal addresses specific concerns. In particular Labour will ensure there is no return to a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland and that there is no change in the status or sovereignty of Gibraltar. We will also protect Gibraltar’s economy and ensure that its government can continue to create jobs and prosperity in the years to come.
Where Theresa May wants to shut down scrutiny and challenge, Labour will welcome it. We will work with Parliament, not against it. On an issue of this importance the Government can’t hide from the public or Parliament.
A Labour approach to Brexit also means legislating to guarantee that Parliament has a truly meaningful vote on the final Brexit deal.There's nothing here to which Labour hasn't adhered during the last 2.5 years of opposition. It never promised to support whatever the Tory government presented as "brexit" and, since the nature of brexit wasn't settled by the 2016 result, it wasn't bound to do so. Simplistic politicking, sloppy journalism and dishonest social media have all played their part in creating a myth that Labour has somehow betrayed its "promise". It hasn't, as the above makes clear, but you have to read the manifesto and follow Labour's subsequent actions to appreciate that. Regurgitating a brexiteer social media trope only adds to the disinformation. As my first boss used to say, it's not often you're right but you're wrong again.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Dec 12, 2019 22:55:28 GMT 1
I think he does so in order to advance his political career (or at times damage limitation for the same purpose). So yeah, he does so for personal gain. Just like the rest of 'em. All fine and dandy people continually pointing to Boris and Tory lies yet the biggest whopper that I suspect will play a bigger role than any in this election is Corbyn and Labour telling over 17 million people that they would respect their vote...👍 Except that's not what the 2017 manifesto said. Not going to reproduce the whole thing but the first and last three paragraphs are pertinent: CHAPTER 02 – NEGOTIATING BREXIT
Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first. We will prioritise jobs and living standards, build a close new relationship with the EU, protect workers’ rights and environmental standards, provide certainty to EU nationals and give a meaningful role to Parliament throughout negotiations.
We will end Theresa May’s reckless approach to Brexit, and seek to unite the country around a Brexit deal that works for every community in Britain.
We will scr@p the Conservatives’ Brexit White Paper and replace it with fresh negotiating priorities that have a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union – which are essential for maintaining industries, jobs and businesses in Britain. Labour will always put jobs and the economy first.
We will also improve engagement and dialogue with the devolved administrations and seek to ensure the final Brexit deal addresses specific concerns. In particular Labour will ensure there is no return to a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland and that there is no change in the status or sovereignty of Gibraltar. We will also protect Gibraltar’s economy and ensure that its government can continue to create jobs and prosperity in the years to come.
Where Theresa May wants to shut down scrutiny and challenge, Labour will welcome it. We will work with Parliament, not against it. On an issue of this importance the Government can’t hide from the public or Parliament.
A Labour approach to Brexit also means legislating to guarantee that Parliament has a truly meaningful vote on the final Brexit deal.There's nothing here to which Labour hasn't adhered during the last 2.5 years of opposition. It never promised to support whatever the Tory government presented as "brexit" and, since the nature of brexit wasn't settled by the 2016 result, it wasn't bound to do so. Simplistic politicking, sloppy journalism and dishonest social media have all played their part in creating a myth that Labour has somehow betrayed its "promise". It hasn't, as the above makes clear, but you have to read the manifesto and follow Labour's subsequent actions to appreciate that. Regurgitating a brexiteer social media trope only adds to the disinformation. As my first boss used to say, it's not often you're right but you're wrong again. As soon as Labour put remain up against whatever deal they would like to put together it's going against what they said, they are clearly not accepting the result of the referendum. Which was to leave the EU. They would if they would be moving forward saying we are leaving but with our negotiated deal; if they were doing that then you might have a point. But as they aren't, then you don't. And that considered, that last line of yours does make me chuckle. If they accepted the result of the referendum then we would be leaving come what may. But that isn't the case now is it. That meaningful vote is referring to the Brexit deal that would negotiated. You understand that to accept the result of the referendum would be to accept that the UK would be leaving the EU. Because the referendum result was to leave the EU. Come on now, its not hard this.
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Boris
Dec 12, 2019 23:23:23 GMT 1
Post by R6ix on Dec 12, 2019 23:23:23 GMT 1
i hate to think what corbyn would do to the uk,lib dems stance on reversing brexit goes against the grain, bit like saying lets not give wimbledon the fa cup v liverpool cos more people thought liverpool should have won regardless of the score,might have voted brexit party but no option on my ballet paper so only leaves bad boris,
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Post by venceremos on Dec 12, 2019 23:53:38 GMT 1
Except that's not what the 2017 manifesto said. Not going to reproduce the whole thing but the first and last three paragraphs are pertinent: CHAPTER 02 – NEGOTIATING BREXIT
Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first. We will prioritise jobs and living standards, build a close new relationship with the EU, protect workers’ rights and environmental standards, provide certainty to EU nationals and give a meaningful role to Parliament throughout negotiations.
We will end Theresa May’s reckless approach to Brexit, and seek to unite the country around a Brexit deal that works for every community in Britain.
We will scr@p the Conservatives’ Brexit White Paper and replace it with fresh negotiating priorities that have a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union – which are essential for maintaining industries, jobs and businesses in Britain. Labour will always put jobs and the economy first.
We will also improve engagement and dialogue with the devolved administrations and seek to ensure the final Brexit deal addresses specific concerns. In particular Labour will ensure there is no return to a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland and that there is no change in the status or sovereignty of Gibraltar. We will also protect Gibraltar’s economy and ensure that its government can continue to create jobs and prosperity in the years to come.
Where Theresa May wants to shut down scrutiny and challenge, Labour will welcome it. We will work with Parliament, not against it. On an issue of this importance the Government can’t hide from the public or Parliament.
A Labour approach to Brexit also means legislating to guarantee that Parliament has a truly meaningful vote on the final Brexit deal.There's nothing here to which Labour hasn't adhered during the last 2.5 years of opposition. It never promised to support whatever the Tory government presented as "brexit" and, since the nature of brexit wasn't settled by the 2016 result, it wasn't bound to do so. Simplistic politicking, sloppy journalism and dishonest social media have all played their part in creating a myth that Labour has somehow betrayed its "promise". It hasn't, as the above makes clear, but you have to read the manifesto and follow Labour's subsequent actions to appreciate that. Regurgitating a brexiteer social media trope only adds to the disinformation. As my first boss used to say, it's not often you're right but you're wrong again. As soon as Labour put remain up against whatever deal they would like to put together it's going against what they said, they are clearly not accepting the result of the referendum. Which was to leave the EU. They would if they would be moving forward saying we are leaving but with our negotiated deal; if they were doing that then you might have a point. But as they aren't, then you don't. And that considered, that last line of yours does make me chuckle. If they accepted the result of the referendum then we would be leaving come what may. But that isn't the case now is it. That meaningful vote is referring to the Brexit deal that would negotiated. You understand that to accept the result of the referendum would be to accept that the UK would be leaving the EU. Because the referendum result was to leave the EU. Come on now, its not hard this. Yep, it’s not hard, though you’re trying to make it so. That first sentence - accepts the result and will put the national interest first. The “and” gives equal weight to both parts. Giving the electorate the chance to make a more informed decision puts the national interest first and doesn’t deny the opportunity to leave. Anyway, looks like this is all academic now so I’m done with the debate.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Dec 13, 2019 0:04:07 GMT 1
As soon as Labour put remain up against whatever deal they would like to put together it's going against what they said, they are clearly not accepting the result of the referendum. Which was to leave the EU. They would if they would be moving forward saying we are leaving but with our negotiated deal; if they were doing that then you might have a point. But as they aren't, then you don't. And that considered, that last line of yours does make me chuckle. If they accepted the result of the referendum then we would be leaving come what may. But that isn't the case now is it. That meaningful vote is referring to the Brexit deal that would negotiated. You understand that to accept the result of the referendum would be to accept that the UK would be leaving the EU. Because the referendum result was to leave the EU. Come on now, its not hard this. Yep, it’s not hard, though you’re trying to make it so. That first sentence - accepts the result and will put the national interest first. The “and” gives equal weight to both parts. Giving the electorate the chance to make a more informed decision puts the national interest first and doesn’t deny the opportunity to leave. Anyway, looks like this is all academic now so I’m done with the debate. Its not hard at all and I am doing nothing of the sort. If you accept the result of the referendum it means you accept that the UK will be leaving the EU and you work to that end. As soon as Labour once again included remain as an option then they are no longer accepting the result of the referendum.
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Post by shrewder on Dec 13, 2019 10:59:04 GMT 1
Now it's time for Boris to shut up and prove he can deliver on his promises.
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Boris
Dec 13, 2019 11:08:50 GMT 1
Post by Mortgagehound on Dec 13, 2019 11:08:50 GMT 1
So no free broadband after all.............
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Boris
Dec 13, 2019 11:15:10 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by SouthStandShrew on Dec 13, 2019 11:15:10 GMT 1
So no free broadband after all............. Already got it thanks.
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Post by barrynic on Dec 13, 2019 11:16:41 GMT 1
Great result for Boris.....the smile on my face just will not go away.
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Post by northwestman on Dec 13, 2019 13:13:10 GMT 1
Let's hope they now release the Russian dossier and get going on the Arcuri Inquiries.
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Boris
Dec 13, 2019 13:36:41 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by GrizzlyShrew on Dec 13, 2019 13:36:41 GMT 1
Great result for Boris.....the smile on my face just will not go away. Wouldnt day ive got a huge smile on my face about it, just a small one. ;But its far more than i would have should the country have been so stupid to go with the only other option (shudders with the thought). Now lets get on and sort out the mess from the last time the country was asked to vote, we have wasted the last 3 year with stupid arguing.
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Boris
Dec 13, 2019 13:59:43 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by SouthStandShrew on Dec 13, 2019 13:59:43 GMT 1
Great result for Boris.....the smile on my face just will not go away. Wouldnt day ive got a huge smile on my face about it, just a small one. ;But its far more than i would have should the country have been so stupid to go with the only other option (shudders with the thought). Now lets get on and sort out the mess from the last time the country was asked to vote, we have wasted the last 3 year with stupid arguing. As Leave voter I can't see how we can bring the country together. What's the end game in this? Poisonous in the UK right now. Left and Right.
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Boris
Dec 13, 2019 17:49:14 GMT 1
Post by servernaside on Dec 13, 2019 17:49:14 GMT 1
Taxi for Comrade Jezza.
Suck it up comrades.
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Drew
Midland League Division One
Posts: 416
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Post by Drew on Dec 13, 2019 19:49:37 GMT 1
Wouldnt day ive got a huge smile on my face about it, just a small one. ;But its far more than i would have should the country have been so stupid to go with the only other option (shudders with the thought). Now lets get on and sort out the mess from the last time the country was asked to vote, we have wasted the last 3 year with stupid arguing. As Leave voter I can't see how we can bring the country together. What's the end game in this? Poisonous in the UK right now. Left and Right. Basically remain voters need to now accept that there will not be another referendum and that we will be leaving the EU very shortly. The whole of parliament needs to get behind the next stage of the negotiations so that the UK presents a united front to the EU. No more undermining our negotiating position.
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Boris
Dec 13, 2019 19:56:57 GMT 1
Post by venceremos on Dec 13, 2019 19:56:57 GMT 1
Taxi for Comrade Jezza. Suck it up comrades. I take it you're not a one nation Tory with an interest in unifying the nation …..
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Boris
Dec 13, 2019 20:04:01 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by SouthStandShrew on Dec 13, 2019 20:04:01 GMT 1
As Leave voter I can't see how we can bring the country together. What's the end game in this? Poisonous in the UK right now. Left and Right. Basically remain voters need to now accept that there will not be another referendum and that we will be leaving the EU very shortly. The whole of parliament needs to get behind the next stage of the negotiations so that the UK presents a united front to the EU. No more undermining our negotiating position. I agree. I don't like the fact the Tories won, but we need to make sure what happens at least tries to unite the country. Labour needs new leadership Asap to make sure the Government are held to account that we all can benefit from leaving the EU gravy train.
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Boris
Dec 13, 2019 20:06:00 GMT 1
Post by venceremos on Dec 13, 2019 20:06:00 GMT 1
As Leave voter I can't see how we can bring the country together. What's the end game in this? Poisonous in the UK right now. Left and Right. Basically remain voters need to now accept that there will not be another referendum and that we will be leaving the EU very shortly. The whole of parliament needs to get behind the next stage of the negotiations so that the UK presents a united front to the EU. No more undermining our negotiating position. I thought the chance of a second referendum disappeared last month when Corbyn and Swinson chose to accept the general election rather than pushing for the second vote that was within their grasp. A joint failure. Of course there won't be a second referendum and we'll begin the transition phase in February. Parliament doesn't have much of a role to play now. The government doesn't need it (apart from its own side of course, which is a given) and nor does it need cheerleaders. The negotiations are a different matter though. Johnson's deal was considered by many prominent leavers to be worse than May's. That hasn't changed. It seems doubtful that an agreement will be concluded by the end of 2020 but that won't matter. Johnson has reneged on promises before without being damaged unduly and he's in a stronger position now and I can't see the EU objecting, so I suspect the transition period will run beyond 2020. I predict there'll be a softer brexit than many wanted, eventually.
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