|
Post by cheggersdrinkspop on Oct 14, 2019 20:43:34 GMT 1
Aside from it being a walk over for England, and they are playing well, the game is one step away from being abandoned in line with FIFA guidelines on racist behaviour (by the Bulgarians may I add), interesting second half ahead in a half empty stadium that is partially closed due to similar issues.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 20:53:07 GMT 1
The punishment needs to be expulsion. Even their manager is giving it the whole shrugging his shoulders it's no big deal attitude. Bunch of *****.
The actual punishment will probably be 10,000 seats netted off next time. A big deterrent when the place is half empty anyway.
|
|
|
Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Oct 14, 2019 20:57:13 GMT 1
What is crazy is the whole thing was a couple of hundred in black hoodies.
Hope the England fans stay safe tonight.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 21:10:35 GMT 1
The punishment needs to be expulsion. Even their manager is giving it the whole shrugging his shoulders it's no big deal attitude. Bunch of *****. The actual punishment will probably be 10,000 seats netted off next time. A big deterrent when the place is half empty anyway. They should be suspended from playing international football for at least a year. The game is essentially a sideshow now with the open racism and fascist salutes in the crowd. Either uefa are happy with nations competing in their tournaments that condone this behaviour or they are not.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 21:17:40 GMT 1
Expect many of these England fans are in for a tough night sadly. Let's hope they are shepherded back to their hotels or to the airport by the police otherwise they'll get battered. That contingent leaving the stadium in the first half looked proper hardcore.
|
|
|
Post by Mortgagehound on Oct 14, 2019 22:14:24 GMT 1
Where were the stewards?
|
|
|
Post by southstandviewer on Oct 14, 2019 22:16:52 GMT 1
I don't believe for one minute that those who left at half time did so because they were told to go. Having experienced many European matches they tend to have their hierarchy who dictate what they do and when, taking little or no notice of stewards or police.
I think they made their views known on TV and decided to go.
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 15, 2019 6:21:58 GMT 1
I think if you are going to tackle and problem you have to first admit that you have one. The penny doesn't seem to have dropped yet for Bulgaria (looking to how open and blatant it is within the stadium, looking to one or two comments afterwards). I understand that kicking teams out of competitions will no doubt focus minds but its a tricky one as I do feel that's a little unfair on their players who play no role in it (and really aren't the ones in a position to do anything about it). I'm more inclined to see UEFA force countries to play all qualifying games behind closed doors until they make up their minds to actually do something about it and can show that they are willing and capable to put a stop to it. That we have cameras focusing on fans in the stands sticking out like a sore thumb making monkey noises and making Nazi hand gestures going unchallenged. So its there for all to see; so it's either a complete indifference, not having the will to do something about it or they're incapable of putting a stop to it. That has to change. Anyhow, think the team and management were a credit both on and off the pitch. Well done England. Great reaction from the disappointing performance and result on Friday. As for Bulgaria, they'll be a good few on here I'm sure who can remember back to the 90's when they were a very decent side. They looked a million miles away from that last night...
|
|
|
Post by another fine mess on Oct 15, 2019 8:10:48 GMT 1
It’s a mystery to me why no team or player hasn’t walked- off before now.
It’s a low-risk action and it will do a lot of good.
When they do, there will be a stampede in the media of politicians and public figures rushing to align themselves with the players concerned. That goes for major sponsors too. What brand wants to be on the wrong side of an argument about racism? It will be like a modern-day Rosa Parks situation and it will finally force UEFA into action. And it will make heroes out of the players who walk-off.
There’s long been a problem in Europe with racism and it gets worse as you go east and south east. That will take a generation or two to change but UEFA could eradicate it from international football if they wanted to.
|
|
|
Post by cheggersdrinkspop on Oct 15, 2019 8:17:03 GMT 1
Interesting comments from the Bulgarian coach who didn't hear a thing, or didn't want to, which sums up the whole attitude to the situation. Compounded by his comments that the English fans were just as culpable for booing the national anthem, which both sets of supporters did incidentally, this does seem to indicate he isn't that bothered by it and what a great message to send to the perpetrators. Essentially this then does raise the issue that the Bulgarians receive a ban rather than a financial penalty, because it does involve the football side. Also as mentioned last night what impact does a £75k fine or lack of income have on them, nothing, and the other point was made that when Nicholas Bendtner showed is underwear with a sponsors name on it he was fined £100k, slight imbalance there. There needs to be some serious decisions, rather than lip service, made soon or it will be too little too late and precedents already set.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 8:51:40 GMT 1
I think if you are going to tackle and problem you have to first admit that you have one. The penny doesn't seem to have dropped yet for Bulgaria (looking to how open and blatant it is within the stadium, looking to one or two comments afterwards). I understand that kicking teams out of competitions will no doubt focus minds but its a tricky one as I do feel that's a little unfair on their players who play no role in it (and really aren't the ones in a position to do anything about it). I'm more inclined to see UEFA force countries to play all qualifying games behind closed doors until they make up their minds to actually do something about it and can show that they are willing and capable to put a stop to it. That we have cameras focusing on fans in the stands sticking out like a sore thumb making monkey noises and making Nazi hand gestures going unchallenged. So its there for all to see; so it's either a complete indifference, not having the will to do something about it or they're incapable of putting a stop to it. That has to change. Anyhow, think the team and management were a credit both on and off the pitch. Well done England. Great reaction from the disappointing performance and result on Friday. As for Bulgaria, they'll be a good few on here I'm sure who can remember back to the 90's when they were a very decent side. They looked a million miles away from that last night... Well the coach didn't hear the lads in their 40s making monkey noises at Raheem Sterling last night behind him so perhaps the problem is ingrained with players and coaches aswell. Closed doors does nothing. As I said previously uefa either wants this behaviour from nations in their tournaments or they dont. Allowing them to play behind closed doors tacitly condones their actions. If they qualify their fans would travel to games in the finals making a mockery of it.
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Oct 15, 2019 10:38:17 GMT 1
Perhaps they should be obliged to play all their games away from home with their supporters banned for a fixed period of time? At a venue a considerable number of miles from Bulgaria with strict rules on ticket sales to prevent their supporters attending.
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 15, 2019 10:45:05 GMT 1
I think if you are going to tackle and problem you have to first admit that you have one. The penny doesn't seem to have dropped yet for Bulgaria (looking to how open and blatant it is within the stadium, looking to one or two comments afterwards). I understand that kicking teams out of competitions will no doubt focus minds but its a tricky one as I do feel that's a little unfair on their players who play no role in it (and really aren't the ones in a position to do anything about it). I'm more inclined to see UEFA force countries to play all qualifying games behind closed doors until they make up their minds to actually do something about it and can show that they are willing and capable to put a stop to it. That we have cameras focusing on fans in the stands sticking out like a sore thumb making monkey noises and making Nazi hand gestures going unchallenged. So its there for all to see; so it's either a complete indifference, not having the will to do something about it or they're incapable of putting a stop to it. That has to change. Anyhow, think the team and management were a credit both on and off the pitch. Well done England. Great reaction from the disappointing performance and result on Friday. As for Bulgaria, they'll be a good few on here I'm sure who can remember back to the 90's when they were a very decent side. They looked a million miles away from that last night... Closed doors does nothing. I think if you were to do so over the complete qualifying campaign then I think it would have an impact. I just don't think it is right than professional athletes who are playing no part in this have to suffer because of the actions of others.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 10:52:15 GMT 1
Closed doors does nothing. I think if you were to do so over the complete qualifying campaign then I think it would have an impact. I just don't think it is right than professional athletes who are playing no part in this have to suffer because of the actions of others. International football has a unique place in the geopolitical landscape. Uefa can make their first serious significant stand that racism is not to be tolerated by suspending Bulgaria immediately. If I was an international footballer and my fans were making nazi salutes and openly monkey chanting my opponent I would refuse to wear the shirt. There are things more important than some athletes gaining caps. They shouldn't be allowed to compete until it is sorted.
|
|
|
Post by Pilch on Oct 15, 2019 11:19:19 GMT 1
What’s the point of trying to make a stand and then bottling it Presumably England would have walked off just before half time had we been 2-0 down
Racism is seemingly bearable if your winning 😳
Perfect opportunity to set a standard and blew it
Ps
Scooter was there
He causes more trouble than Pablo Escobar 🙄
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on Oct 15, 2019 11:53:40 GMT 1
When fans of English clubs couldn't be trusted to be civilised, those clubs were banned from European football until they could.
It should be no different with fans of national teams. Bulgaria should be removed from this tournament and the next World Cup, with a similar sanction for future offenders.
This has been tolerated for too long. You can't stamp it out with slogans, banners and hashtags.
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 15, 2019 12:04:36 GMT 1
I think if you were to do so over the complete qualifying campaign then I think it would have an impact. I just don't think it is right than professional athletes who are playing no part in this have to suffer because of the actions of others. International football has a unique place in the geopolitical landscape. Uefa can make their first serious significant stand that racism is not to be tolerated by suspending Bulgaria immediately. If I was an international footballer and my fans were making nazi salutes and openly monkey chanting my opponent I would refuse to wear the shirt. There are things more important than some athletes gaining caps. They shouldn't be allowed to compete until it is sorted. Always easy to say what you would or wouldn't do when you will never find yourselves in that position. As I say, I don't think footballers should be getting punished and banned from international football because of the actions of others. We do indeed need UEFA to make their first serious significant stand but I do not believe that should be suspending teams from playing international football, that should be the very last resort. I would first like to see a full campaign either played behind closed doors in Bulgaria and played behind closed doors someplace else. If they are unable to police a crowd then don't allow them to do so until they are willing and capable of doing so. That's how I see it anyhow...
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 15, 2019 12:09:28 GMT 1
What’s the point of trying to make a stand and then bottling it Presumably England would have walked off just before half time had we been 2-0 down Racism is seemingly bearable if your winning 😳 Perfect opportunity to set a standard and blew it Ps Scooter was there He causes more trouble than Pablo Escobar 🙄 I'm not so sure that it is up to England though is it, its down to the officials. I think England went about it the right way. They voiced their concerns to the officials who then followed the official procedure. I think the game wasn't abandoned because at the second warning the Bulgarians shouting the most abuse took it upon themselves to leave the stadium...perhaps the message had finally got through. I don't think England bottled it. I think they did set a standard. First time I have seen that in an international match.
|
|
|
Post by Pilch on Oct 15, 2019 12:34:25 GMT 1
When fans of English clubs couldn't be trusted to be civilised, those clubs were banned from European football until they could. It should be no different with fans of national teams. Bulgaria should be removed from this tournament and the next World Cup, with a similar sanction for future offenders. This has been tolerated for too long. You can't stamp it out with slogans, banners and hashtags. Fans of English clubs ? Surely you mean Liverpool And all English clubs were banned because of it Anyway I totally agree with your point I thought this myself earlier too Just ban all of Bulgaria from European games And then national side at least until the end of this season, but possibly next season too Message would soon get learnt But it also reminded me of our own town fans when we played stoke We still need to get our own house in order too before we put the world to rights
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 15, 2019 12:50:12 GMT 1
I don't watch much football in England of course but its still there. At Wembley in the play off final we had a bunch of lads come to the back where we were sat to seek some shade and there was the one within that group who shouted racist abuse. It still happens for sure.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 12:54:10 GMT 1
The time for rhetoric is over...
It's time now for serious action because last night clearly demonstrated that closing off a few thousand seats makes no difference whatsoever.
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 15, 2019 13:05:02 GMT 1
The time for rhetoric is over... It's time now for serious action because last night clearly demonstrated that closing off a few thousand seats makes no difference whatsoever. More so when it appears to have meant absolutely nothing to the Bulgarians as it didn't appear to be a full house anyhow (the sections that were open didn't appear full). Unless it was the overall capacity that was cut (rather than a specific section of the ground) I'm not entirely sure what the punishment was? They have to go above and beyond that now.
|
|
|
Post by DiglisShrew on Oct 15, 2019 13:13:49 GMT 1
I don't watch much football in England of course but its still there. At Wembley in the play off final we had a bunch of lads come to the back where we were sat to seek some shade and there was the one within that group who shouted racist abuse. It still happens for sure. Yes , the irony of England fans singing "You rascist barstewards - you know what your are" !! Pots & kettles come to mind for some of our followers !
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 13:21:33 GMT 1
Before we as a country fall off our high horses. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50054915And these are the crimes that are just reported. Still a way to go in the UK. And collective punishment is the way forward. Ban Bulgaria for a period, zero tolerance. Attitudes change from within.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 13:43:52 GMT 1
Not to mention all those white girls groomed by men from non indigenous backgrounds, 1000+ in Telford alone. Some perspective needed. Far greater issue than name calling and odious gestures, as repugnant as that is. Shrinking like salted snails from that. Cowards.
|
|
|
Post by South Stand Salopian on Oct 15, 2019 14:29:59 GMT 1
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 15:37:03 GMT 1
International football has a unique place in the geopolitical landscape. Uefa can make their first serious significant stand that racism is not to be tolerated by suspending Bulgaria immediately. If I was an international footballer and my fans were making nazi salutes and openly monkey chanting my opponent I would refuse to wear the shirt. There are things more important than some athletes gaining caps. They shouldn't be allowed to compete until it is sorted. Always easy to say what you would or wouldn't do when you will never find yourselves in that position. As I say, I don't think footballers should be getting punished and banned from international football because of the actions of others. We do indeed need UEFA to make their first serious significant stand but I do not believe that should be suspending teams from playing international football, that should be the very last resort. I would first like to see a full campaign either played behind closed doors in Bulgaria and played behind closed doors someplace else. If they are unable to police a crowd then don't allow them to do so until they are willing and capable of doing so. That's how I see it anyhow... And if they were to qualify?
|
|
|
Post by Bob Rickerton on Oct 15, 2019 17:41:04 GMT 1
Before we as a country fall off our high horses. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50054915And these are the crimes that are just reported. Still a way to go in the UK. And collective punishment is the way forward. Ban Bulgaria for a period, zero tolerance. Attitudes change from within. It's to Southgate's immense credit that while criticising others he doesn't ignore the need for us to get our own house in order, both as a country and a travelling fanbase. Would be easy for Bulgarians to observe the hypocrisy of us kicking off about this while having a prime minister who gleefully referred to "picanninies with watermelon smiles".
|
|
|
Post by South Stand Salopian on Oct 15, 2019 17:59:17 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 15, 2019 19:23:15 GMT 1
Always easy to say what you would or wouldn't do when you will never find yourselves in that position. As I say, I don't think footballers should be getting punished and banned from international football because of the actions of others. We do indeed need UEFA to make their first serious significant stand but I do not believe that should be suspending teams from playing international football, that should be the very last resort. I would first like to see a full campaign either played behind closed doors in Bulgaria and played behind closed doors someplace else. If they are unable to police a crowd then don't allow them to do so until they are willing and capable of doing so. That's how I see it anyhow... And if they were to qualify? Then they attend the finals. And those finals tend to be held in countries that are willing and capable of managing and policing such incidents. And mores to the point, if any country has any desire to see their home games reinstated for the following campaign then I would think they would go to great lengths to make sure that their supporters cause no issues. They would actually make efforts to address the issue rather than allowing it to continue. I'm not against kicking sides out of a competition but I think that should only be as a very last resort. I don't think the punishments have yet been severe enough to really focus minds on actually taking some action. And it's about focusing minds and forcing countries to take action. I think losing home fixtures throughout a whole campaign would be the next stage. Lets see how they go about it from there anyhow. The actions of the officials last night could well bring about some change. We have already seen the head of the Bulgarian FA step aside. Perhaps it might have finally sunk in and they are finally sitting up and taking some notice. As far as I know this is the first time that we now have some procedure in place, that the officials now have the power to act and now exactly how to do so, we have officials empowered to actually do something about this knowing they are backed by UEFA to do so. So now we finally have the real threat of a game being called off...maybe that now will be enough to force countries and their FA's to start taking this seriously. Fingers crossed.
|
|