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Post by CuyahogaBlue on Jun 3, 2019 23:35:31 GMT 1
Trump was not elected by the American people, he was elected by the Electoral College. Trump lost the popular vote by 2m plus votes.
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Post by CuyahogaBlue on Jun 3, 2019 23:43:58 GMT 1
So it’s ok to protest but only against causes you feel are worthy and warranted? The fact protesters are describing Trump's visit as the UK sponsoring a rise of the far right is frankly absurd. The rise of racist far right groups in the US and the increase in hate crimes over the last two years has been linked the rhetoric used by Trump/Bannon etc. While it may be a stretch to say that the UK is sponsoring the rise of the far right, I think it is undeniable that the far right in the US, UK and a number of other European countries is on the rise.
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Post by CuyahogaBlue on Jun 3, 2019 23:50:00 GMT 1
We have closer ties to the US than, say, Saudi or China, so when the US president is a lying, racist, misogynistic, war-mongering scumbag seeking flattery & the opportunity to screw us in a post-brexit trade deal, some of us might prefer to say something against him. It’s a bit more of an immediate concern. OK; so you hold American political leaders up to a higher standard than those say, from Saudi Arabia and China, because we have closer ties with the USA. Well it makes no sense to me whatsoever but thanks for the response anyhow... I think that the Leader of the Free World should be held to the highest standards of ethics and morality. He has patently failed, hence the desire of many to make their feelings known. Trump is not interested in a trade " deal" MAGA means exploit to the maximum degree and the UK is next on the list of targets to exploit.
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Post by CuyahogaBlue on Jun 3, 2019 23:53:32 GMT 1
... and I will add, that I have attended many Anti tRump, Anti tRump policy demonstrations. I am not a tRump voter by any stretch of the imagination.
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 4, 2019 0:25:46 GMT 1
The fact protesters are describing Trump's visit as the UK sponsoring a rise of the far right is frankly absurd. The rise of racist far right groups in the US and the increase in hate crimes over the last two years has been linked the rhetoric used by Trump/Bannon etc. While it may be a stretch to say that the UK is sponsoring the rise of the far right, I think it is undeniable that the far right in the US, UK and a number of other European countries is on the rise. Do you have similar concerns about the "far left", or is it just the fact that you're left of centre and have a differing opinion that anyone right of centre must be "far right", racist, facist etc
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Post by CuyahogaBlue on Jun 4, 2019 0:34:12 GMT 1
The rise of racist far right groups in the US and the increase in hate crimes over the last two years has been linked the rhetoric used by Trump/Bannon etc. While it may be a stretch to say that the UK is sponsoring the rise of the far right, I think it is undeniable that the far right in the US, UK and a number of other European countries is on the rise. Do you have similar concerns about the "far left", or is it just the fact that you're left of centre and have a differing opinion that anyone right of centre must be "far right", racist, facist etc Not heard of any far-left groups fire bombing mosques; fire bombing gay bars, killing muslims, lynching African Americans - but if there are any instances, yes I will condemn with the equal severity that I condemn racist right wing groups. Until then, the far right, Bannon/Trump inspired groups hold a tight noose on terror.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 4, 2019 6:01:52 GMT 1
OK; so you hold American political leaders up to a higher standard than those say, from Saudi Arabia and China, because we have closer ties with the USA. Well it makes no sense to me whatsoever but thanks for the response anyhow... I think that the Leader of the Free World should be held to the highest standards of ethics and morality. So more so than those leaders of the not so free world? Yeah, like I say, that makes no sense to me whatsoever.
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Post by Valerioch on Jun 4, 2019 7:11:39 GMT 1
... and I will add, that I have attended many Anti tRump, Anti tRump policy demonstrations. I am not a tRump voter by any stretch of the imagination. Suggest you find some hobbies or do something more worthwhile, and less utterly pointless and sad Good to have Donald Trump here
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Post by frankwellshrews on Jun 4, 2019 7:49:18 GMT 1
The whole "but China and Saudi Arabia are just as bad" thing is a red herring.
Of course it's right but it's not an argument for endorsing Trump. It's just a fact that people are more familiar with the US and feel on more solid ground criticising him.
Either way, people can protest what they like. "Last time I checked, this was still a free country". If you don't agree, just ignore it but please, for God's sake, spare us this fawning guff about "respecting the office". This guy's a politician like any other not the President in a Gerard Butler action movie.
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Post by camdenshrew on Jun 4, 2019 8:16:58 GMT 1
... and I will add, that I have attended many Anti tRump, Anti tRump policy demonstrations. I am not a tRump voter by any stretch of the imagination. Suggest you find some hobbies or do something more worthwhile, and less utterly pointless and sad Good to have Donald Trump here Good to have him here? This is the man who separated kids from their parents and put them in cages. Or have you forgotten about that and numerous other outrages already? To be grovelling to this moron is hugely embarrassing.
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 4, 2019 9:06:24 GMT 1
Suggest you find some hobbies or do something more worthwhile, and less utterly pointless and sad Good to have Donald Trump here Good to have him here? This is the man who separated kids from their parents and put them in cages. Or have you forgotten about that and numerous other outrages already? To be grovelling to this moron is hugely embarrassing. Obama also separated families, look into it.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 4, 2019 9:33:07 GMT 1
whatever you may think of him and i am not a fan, if brexit does come off and we are looking for trade deals, does it help for poloticians to not be diplomatic? Is trump diplomatic? short answer no !!
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 4, 2019 9:37:46 GMT 1
The whole "but China and Saudi Arabia are just as bad" thing is a red herring. Of course it's right but it's not an argument for endorsing Trump. It's just a fact that people are more familiar with the US and feel on more solid ground criticising him. Either way, people can protest what they like. "Last time I checked, this was still a free country". If you don't agree, just ignore it but please, for God's sake, spare us this fawning guff about "respecting the office". This guy's a politician like any other not the President in a Gerard Butler action movie. Sure, people can protest (peacefully) as much as they like. It is indeed a free country. So with that said, others are free to comment and question who they do decide to protest about and those that they do not. And for me its not so much 'more solid' ground, I'm sure many of those who are out there protesting will be very much aware of what is happening elsewhere in the world, this is about it being on 'safer' ground.
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Post by venceremos on Jun 4, 2019 10:26:58 GMT 1
I think that the Leader of the Free World should be held to the highest standards of ethics and morality. So more so than those leaders of the not so free world? Yeah, like I say, that makes no sense to me whatsoever. I doubt many people need it spelling out. The UK and US have a closer kinship, as the commemoration shows, than the UK and China, or Saudi, or almost anywhere else. The US is also regarded as the pre-eminent nation in what we like to call the free world, of which we see ourselves as part. It’s only natural to hold those closer to you to a higher standard. It happens within families all the time. Condescending dismissals of protesters on the basis of their being on safer, rather than solid, ground miss the mark by a distance.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 4, 2019 11:02:45 GMT 1
So more so than those leaders of the not so free world? Yeah, like I say, that makes no sense to me whatsoever. I doubt many people need it spelling out. No, they don't. People aren't daft. It's perfectly clear to all. And people are right to call it out... We'll most certainly have to agree to disagree on this one.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 4, 2019 12:19:40 GMT 1
Do you have similar concerns about the "far left", or is it just the fact that you're left of centre and have a differing opinion that anyone right of centre must be "far right", racist, facist etc Not heard of any far-left groups fire bombing mosques; fire bombing gay bars, killing muslims, lynching African Americans - but if there are any instances, yes I will condemn with the equal severity that I condemn racist right wing groups. Until then, the far right, Bannon/Trump inspired groups hold a tight noose on terror. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/01/shame-of-anitsemitism-on-left-has-long-malign-history
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Post by CuyahogaBlue on Jun 4, 2019 13:22:36 GMT 1
Anti Semiticism is abhorrent.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 4, 2019 18:54:43 GMT 1
Christ on a bike, just look at her...
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Post by Valerioch on Jun 4, 2019 18:55:28 GMT 1
Suggest you find some hobbies or do something more worthwhile, and less utterly pointless and sad Good to have Donald Trump here Good to have him here? This is the man who separated kids from their parents and put them in cages. Or have you forgotten about that and numerous other outrages already? To be grovelling to this moron is hugely embarrassing. I suggest you spend a bit of time doing some research Most illegal immigrant deported (including some separation from parents) Most bombs dropped on foreign soil Kept Guantanamo Bay an open and active torture chamber No not Trump, but Saint Obama These left wingers need to get a life and grow up. They’d protest for looking left and looking right
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Post by Valerioch on Jun 4, 2019 18:56:59 GMT 1
Christ on a bike, just look at her... Welcome to a world of Jeremy Corbyn extreme left wing supporters “A fairer, kinder politics” they preach Hypocritical scum
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 4, 2019 19:02:48 GMT 1
Good to have him here? This is the man who separated kids from their parents and put them in cages. Or have you forgotten about that and numerous other outrages already? To be grovelling to this moron is hugely embarrassing. I suggest you spend a bit of time doing some research Most illegal immigrant deported (including some separation from parents) Most bombs dropped on foreign soil Kept Guantanamo Bay an open and active torture chamber No not Trump, but Saint Obama These left wingers need to get a life and grow up. They’d protest for looking left and looking right Great post, true definition of "fake news" that Trump is splitting more families than Obama did.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2019 19:22:01 GMT 1
Anyway. The NHS.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 4, 2019 19:23:49 GMT 1
Pie's take on it. Always worth a listen...
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Post by tvor on Jun 4, 2019 19:25:37 GMT 1
Quite, the thought of the yanks getting their claws into it is very worrying.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2019 19:30:41 GMT 1
Yeah the real issue is what happens to the NHS post Brexit. Trump's words rather **** on Lexiters strange post-brexit world view and is a neo-liberal's like Farage and Johnson's wet dream.
Not people shouting at each other.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 4, 2019 21:51:43 GMT 1
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Post by timgallon on Jun 4, 2019 22:41:47 GMT 1
Just seen some of the protests on the TV. Talk about a shambolic rabble. In my view it only highlights what the hard Left are really like.
Although I should be a bit charitable, they are quite colourful and can certainly bang a drum, other than that.......
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 4, 2019 22:54:29 GMT 1
Just seen some of the protests on the TV. Talk about a shambolic rabble. In my view it only highlights what the hard Left are really like. Although I should be a bit charitable, they are quite colourful and can certainly bang a drum, other than that....... Agree. People just think they're embarrassing the more they carry on. The rise of the far left is of concern.
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Post by CuyahogaBlue on Jun 5, 2019 1:09:15 GMT 1
I think that the Leader of the Free World should be held to the highest standards of ethics and morality. So more so than those leaders of the not so free world? Yeah, like I say, that makes no sense to me whatsoever. While married to his third wife, he allegedly had a relationship with a porn actress. This may or may not be true, but Cohen organised a $130,000 payment to the actress on behalf of the President. This is not behaviour that I view as being emblematic of leadership.
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Post by CuyahogaBlue on Jun 5, 2019 1:17:30 GMT 1
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