|
Post by northwestman on May 12, 2019 12:11:23 GMT 1
Possibly the National League North and South have got the best set up for play offs. The side coming 2nd has home ties all the way to the Final so long as they survive the semis. They thus are rewarded for their efforts in finishing runners up.
|
|
|
Post by Pilch on May 12, 2019 12:41:15 GMT 1
Possibly the National League North and South have got the best set up for play offs. The side coming 2nd has home ties all the way to the Final so long as they survive the semis. They thus are rewarded for their efforts in finishing runners up. which they could still do even if more sides got automatically promoted
|
|
Shrewsfan1985
The Loggerheads
Posts: 23,713
My first team is..: Shrewsbury
|
Post by Shrewsfan1985 on May 12, 2019 12:59:17 GMT 1
Well done to Salford City on their promotion to League 2 yesterday.
|
|
|
Post by scooter on May 12, 2019 13:02:43 GMT 1
I think Bournemouth have got away with being bankrolled and losing millions while still maintaining their plucky small club image. The problem for Salford is that they have been bankrolled way beyond their natural resources and therefore their fanbase and income will take a while to catch up, if it ever does. Plenty of clubs are losing millions being rubbish - Bolton and Sunderland for example. At least Salford have got a result for the investment. That said investment at that level does completely screw up the financial playing field in a division for other clubs. You could argue it encourages speculative investment from clubs who really can't afford it just to keep up. Which is why championship teams are losing so much money. But what they have done with Salford is what WInkleman should have done with MK City. I have always said if they worked their way up I would not have a problem with them, so now Salford have I can't have my cake and eat it. what needs highlighting is during Salfords rise, some seasons only 1 side would gain promotion from the league they were in, this season just 2 went up better than it used to be but still not what it should be can you imagine if that was the case in the top 4 divisions and what the spending would be from some clubs ? would town ever get a chance of being promoted again ? I don't think so especially if there is a side in the division in a position to outspend yes it happens now to some scale but there is your problem for me the only league that has it right is league 2 and only at one end where 4 teams go up we all know from last season that if that were the case in a same sized division league 1 town would have gone up but if we look at the conference, town finished 17 point behind Hereford and they didn't go up, that isn't right really worse than that, wrexham almost got 100 points one season and still didn't go up, funny or not something is wrong But four do go down from the National League, and then two from each of Conference North and South go up. Regionalisation is the reason so few can go up, and that carries on down the pyramid
|
|
|
Post by stfcfan87 on May 12, 2019 13:24:58 GMT 1
PriceOfFootball @kieranmaguire 5h5 hours ago More The ‘Class of 92’ owned Salford City promoted to the EFL for the first time. Does this mean football’s romance is still alive, or could it be that a £2.4 million loan from a Singapore investor & losses of £32,000 a week in the 6th tier had more to do with it? That might be a valid criticism if no other club had ever been promoted whilst losing money and being in debt. But we know that’s not remotely the case, even this season (hello Bury!). How are Orient’s finances, or Lincoln’s, or Barnsley’s, or Sheffield United’s? I don’t know, just wondering why nobody asks when they’re all over Salford’s. well it's not a criticism, it's a fact from their published accounts and was tweeted yesterday. Pretty sure he's analysed lots of others published accounts when they've come out. Pretty sure Orient's finances are ok now that they got rid of the awful owner he nearly destroyed them - think they are fan owned. Lincoln are doing pretty well I think, Barnsley too. But anyway, losing £32,000 a week - this is before this season when they were in conference North - is surely incredible at that level and that's before they signed Adam Rooney etc. What's our entire wage bill a week?
|
|
|
Post by Pilch on May 12, 2019 13:31:23 GMT 1
what needs highlighting is during Salfords rise, some seasons only 1 side would gain promotion from the league they were in, this season just 2 went up better than it used to be but still not what it should be can you imagine if that was the case in the top 4 divisions and what the spending would be from some clubs ? would town ever get a chance of being promoted again ? I don't think so especially if there is a side in the division in a position to outspend yes it happens now to some scale but there is your problem for me the only league that has it right is league 2 and only at one end where 4 teams go up we all know from last season that if that were the case in a same sized division league 1 town would have gone up but if we look at the conference, town finished 17 point behind Hereford and they didn't go up, that isn't right really worse than that, wrexham almost got 100 points one season and still didn't go up, funny or not something is wrong But four do go down from the National League, and then two from each of Conference North and South go up. Regionalisation is the reason so few can go up, and that carries on down the pyramid yeah, kind of forget about that
|
|
|
Post by Pilch on May 12, 2019 13:32:21 GMT 1
But four do go down from the National League, and then two from each of Conference North and South go up. Regionalisation is the reason so few can go up, and that carries on down the pyramid yeah, kind of forget about that , it still feels harsh on those chasing possibly 1 spot
|
|
|
Post by WATR on May 12, 2019 13:48:48 GMT 1
It's all too easily forgotten how the "Class of '92" totally erased Salford's identity when they took over - changing the club's colours and badge completely. That's not something I'd ever exchange for any level of success.
|
|
|
Post by Pilch on May 12, 2019 14:58:24 GMT 1
It's all too easily forgotten how the "Class of '92" totally erased Salford's identity when they took over - changing the club's colours and badge completely. That's not something I'd ever exchange for any level of success. so easily forgotten ? first I'd heard of it was reading this I'm not going to sleep tonight now do you have trouble with Fleetwood playing at Highbury in red with white sleeves ? yeah how dare they change the club badge just 3 years after the club changed its name for the 3rd time in its history I've only supported town 40 years but we've changed our badge 6 times that I can remember and our original colours were blue and white for best part of 100 years
|
|
|
Post by tvor on May 12, 2019 16:49:12 GMT 1
That might be a valid criticism if no other club had ever been promoted whilst losing money and being in debt. But we know that’s not remotely the case, even this season (hello Bury!). How are Orient’s finances, or Lincoln’s, or Barnsley’s, or Sheffield United’s? I don’t know, just wondering why nobody asks when they’re all over Salford’s. well it's not a criticism, it's a fact from their published accounts and was tweeted yesterday. Pretty sure he's analysed lots of others published accounts when they've come out. Pretty sure Orient's finances are ok now that they got rid of the awful owner he nearly destroyed them - think they are fan owned. Lincoln are doing pretty well I think, Barnsley too. But anyway, losing £32,000 a week - this is before this season when they were in conference North - is surely incredible at that level and that's before they signed Adam Rooney etc. What's our entire wage bill a week? Good post. It's the sheer scale of the thing with Salford City that makes it stand out. As Kieran Maguire, an expert in football finances, has pointed out in the tweet to which you linked. I don't think he has any axe to grind, he's a Brighton fan as far as I know, and he's not prone to posting these sort of things on his twitter feed for no reason.
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on May 12, 2019 18:07:20 GMT 1
Congratulations to Chorley and Woking, who join Stockport and Torquay in being promoted to the National League.
Both teams had finished 2nd in their respective divisions.
|
|
|
Post by Pilch on May 12, 2019 18:19:57 GMT 1
well it's not a criticism, it's a fact from their published accounts and was tweeted yesterday. Pretty sure he's analysed lots of others published accounts when they've come out. Pretty sure Orient's finances are ok now that they got rid of the awful owner he nearly destroyed them - think they are fan owned. Lincoln are doing pretty well I think, Barnsley too. But anyway, losing £32,000 a week - this is before this season when they were in conference North - is surely incredible at that level and that's before they signed Adam Rooney etc. What's our entire wage bill a week? Good post. It's the sheer scale of the thing with Salford City that makes it stand out. As Kieran Maguire, an expert in football financees, has pointed out in the tweet to which you linked. I don't think he has any axe to grind, he's a Brighton fan as far as I know, and he's not prone to posting these sort of things on his twitter feed for no reason. is this the same Kieran Maguire with no axe to grind that has worked in Liverpool for the last 20 years ?
|
|
|
Post by tvor on May 12, 2019 18:48:14 GMT 1
He works as a lecturer at a Liverpool University, since 2013, having previously lectured at a University in Manchester. He isn't from Liverpool or Manchester, he supports Brighton. I'm not sure what your point is?
|
|
|
Post by LetchworthShrew on May 12, 2019 19:04:24 GMT 1
Congratulations to Chorley and Woking, who join Stockport and Torquay in being promoted to the National League. Both teams had finished 2nd in their respective divisions. and yeserday there were 2 super playoff games between the playoff winners from the 2 Southern Premier Leagues, Isthmian League and Northern Premier to determine which 2 would take the 2 places for Playoff winners in National League North & South (from 20/21 Nat North & South are expanding to 24 teams each with 4 relegated from each league so all 4 playoff winners can be promoted) North - Warrington Town 2-3 Kings Lynn Town aet (2-2) South - Met Police 2-3 Tonbridge Angles aet (2-2) Pretty decent game at Met Police who took lead twice and Tonbridge equalised in 86th minute to take it to extra time.
|
|
|
Post by Pilch on May 12, 2019 19:25:15 GMT 1
He works as a lecturer at a Liverpool University, since 2013, having previously lectured at a University in Manchester. He isn't from Liverpool or Manchester, he supports Brighton. I'm not sure what your point is? I was just checking to see if he had an hidden axe ok ?
|
|
|
Post by tvor on May 12, 2019 19:27:15 GMT 1
You obviously didn't check very closely.
|
|
|
Post by Pilch on May 12, 2019 19:30:09 GMT 1
You obviously didn't check very closely. no, I couldn't be bothered, thats why I asked you
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on May 12, 2019 22:51:35 GMT 1
That might be a valid criticism if no other club had ever been promoted whilst losing money and being in debt. But we know that’s not remotely the case, even this season (hello Bury!). How are Orient’s finances, or Lincoln’s, or Barnsley’s, or Sheffield United’s? I don’t know, just wondering why nobody asks when they’re all over Salford’s. well it's not a criticism, it's a fact from their published accounts and was tweeted yesterday. Pretty sure he's analysed lots of others published accounts when they've come out. Pretty sure Orient's finances are ok now that they got rid of the awful owner he nearly destroyed them - think they are fan owned. Lincoln are doing pretty well I think, Barnsley too. But anyway, losing £32,000 a week - this is before this season when they were in conference North - is surely incredible at that level and that's before they signed Adam Rooney etc. What's our entire wage bill a week? I plucked those 4 clubs out of the air but, guess what? Apart from Barnsley, they’ve all lost far more money than Salford. Orient -£9.1m Lincoln -£3.1m Sheff Utd - £32.7m What are we to conclude, that it’s ok to buy success but not if you start too low down?
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on May 12, 2019 22:55:50 GMT 1
well it's not a criticism, it's a fact from their published accounts and was tweeted yesterday. Pretty sure he's analysed lots of others published accounts when they've come out. Pretty sure Orient's finances are ok now that they got rid of the awful owner he nearly destroyed them - think they are fan owned. Lincoln are doing pretty well I think, Barnsley too. But anyway, losing £32,000 a week - this is before this season when they were in conference North - is surely incredible at that level and that's before they signed Adam Rooney etc. What's our entire wage bill a week? Good post. It's the sheer scale of the thing with Salford City that makes it stand out. As Kieran Maguire, an expert in football finances, has pointed out in the tweet to which you linked. I don't think he has any axe to grind, he's a Brighton fan as far as I know, and he's not prone to posting these sort of things on his twitter feed for no reason. The sheer scale of the thing? There are far worse cumulative losses and debt laden clubs who’ve managed to be successful, as my reply to that “good post” shows. So much of the criticism of Salford spending their way to success is prejudice, ignorance and hypocrisy.
|
|
|
Post by frankwellshrews on May 12, 2019 22:56:20 GMT 1
beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09112699/filing-historyThe money they owe to the Nevilles etc is one thing but if you look at the parent company's accounts there's another £2.5m owed to the bank on top of the £2.4m they owe their far east benefactor. The phrase "House of Cards" springs to mind. I think I'm right in saying that that, under Financial Fair Play, Neville etc will have to suck it up and convert their loans to equity if things go belly up. Not so the bank or outside financiers. That could kill the club off in the event either or both of those decide they want the cash back, unless the class of 92 are willing to refinance it. We see this all the time. Bury, Notts County, Crawley, Darlington etc. Long list of ckubs that were going to be in the Prem in 5 years or whatever. What makes this one any different.
|
|
|
Post by stfcfan87 on May 12, 2019 23:04:47 GMT 1
well it's not a criticism, it's a fact from their published accounts and was tweeted yesterday. Pretty sure he's analysed lots of others published accounts when they've come out. Pretty sure Orient's finances are ok now that they got rid of the awful owner he nearly destroyed them - think they are fan owned. Lincoln are doing pretty well I think, Barnsley too. But anyway, losing £32,000 a week - this is before this season when they were in conference North - is surely incredible at that level and that's before they signed Adam Rooney etc. What's our entire wage bill a week? I plucked those 4 clubs out of the air but, guess what? Apart from Barnsley, they’ve all lost far more money than Salford. Orient -£9.1m Lincoln -£3.1m Sheff Utd - £32.7m What are we to conclude, that it’s ok to buy success but not if you start too low down? What period are you counting though? Orient recently got taken over. Lincoln have been getting very big crowds for the last 2 seasons, sheff utd big losses from your post but in comparison to the rest of the championship probably not that big! but salford, in division 6 last season had a capacity stadium of 5,000 and managed to lose £32,000 a week. Surely that must be a big red flag?!
|
|
|
Post by tvor on May 12, 2019 23:23:12 GMT 1
Good post. It's the sheer scale of the thing with Salford City that makes it stand out. As Kieran Maguire, an expert in football finances, has pointed out in the tweet to which you linked. I don't think he has any axe to grind, he's a Brighton fan as far as I know, and he's not prone to posting these sort of things on his twitter feed for no reason. The sheer scale of the thing? There are far worse cumulative losses and debt laden clubs who’ve managed to be successful, as my reply to that “good post” shows. So much of the criticism of Salford spending their way to success is prejudice, ignorance and hypocrisy. Yes the scale of the thing. They were losing £32,000 a week the season before this when they were in National League North. Since then they've signed players for reported six figure fees from SPL and League 1 clubs and, in the case of Adam Rooney paid him a reported wage of £4000 a week. If the figures were bad in National League North I hate to think how bad they will be for their season in the National League when they eventually come out.
|
|
|
Post by tvor on May 12, 2019 23:27:23 GMT 1
beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09112699/filing-historyThe money they owe to the Nevilles etc is one thing but if you look at the parent company's accounts there's another £2.5m owed to the bank on top of the £2.4m they owe their far east benefactor. The phrase "House of Cards" springs to mind. I think I'm right in saying that that, under Financial Fair Play, Neville etc will have to suck it up and convert their loans to equity if things go belly up. Not so the bank or outside financiers. That could kill the club off in the event either or both of those decide they want the cash back, unless the class of 92 are willing to refinance it. We see this all the time. Bury, Notts County, Crawley, Darlington etc. Long list of ckubs that were going to be in the Prem in 5 years or whatever. What makes this one any different. Financial Fair Play means they are only allowed to spend 50% of their turnover on wages in League 2. However, they can also use 100% of whatever their owners invest on top of that so FFP doesn't go anything like far enough unfortunately. The restrictions in Leagues 1 and 2 and actually known as SCMP (Salary Cost Management Protocol). Clubs are asked to provide a forecast each summer for the upcoming season. This must include firm evidence from the previous season with any large increases in income having to be explained, so it's not entirely straightforward but I'm sure there are ways around it.
|
|
|
Post by Pilch on May 12, 2019 23:45:07 GMT 1
wouldn't all be easier if we just knocked their ground down, and pop the class of 92 in front of a firing squad it will save a lot of jealousy
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 23:46:56 GMT 1
They're bankrolled by well renowned ex players who are prevalent in the media thus depend for their current livelihoods on their reputations and PR, therefore not a chance they will let anything happen to the club. Oh and a singoporean billionaire.
I'd imagine they will be celebrating another promotion this time next year also.
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on May 13, 2019 0:04:32 GMT 1
I plucked those 4 clubs out of the air but, guess what? Apart from Barnsley, they’ve all lost far more money than Salford. Orient -£9.1m Lincoln -£3.1m Sheff Utd - £32.7m What are we to conclude, that it’s ok to buy success but not if you start too low down? What period are you counting though? Orient recently got taken over. Lincoln have been getting very big crowds for the last 2 seasons, sheff utd big losses from your post but in comparison to the rest of the championship probably not that big! but salford, in division 6 last season had a capacity stadium of 5,000 and managed to lose £32,000 a week. Surely that must be a big red flag?! All latest accounts at Companies House (30 June 2018) all losses are cumulative (ie negative reserves). Orient’s balance sheet has a £3.5m debt in it. Sheffield Utd had £20m turnover and spent £19m on employment costs. These are just random examples to show Salford are little different from many other successful clubs. I get it though; higher profile, famous ex-footballers involved, foreign investor - that’s why many have Salford in their sights and the financial stuff is a spurious excuse.
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on May 13, 2019 0:08:25 GMT 1
The sheer scale of the thing? There are far worse cumulative losses and debt laden clubs who’ve managed to be successful, as my reply to that “good post” shows. So much of the criticism of Salford spending their way to success is prejudice, ignorance and hypocrisy. Yes the scale of the thing. They were losing £32,000 a week the season before this when they were in National League North. Since then they've signed players for reported six figure fees from SPL and League 1 clubs and, in the case of Adam Rooney paid him a reported wage of £4000 a week. If the figures were bad in National League North I hate to think how bad they will be for their season in the National League when they eventually come out. Just when every other club had stopped losing money and relying on wealthy owners too .....
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on May 13, 2019 10:40:09 GMT 1
That vast majority of football clubs, for the vast majority of their history, have been dependent on some rich folk putting money into the club in order to gain success. It is for the most part how football works and has worked for over a hundred years. Salford are just treading a well worn path...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 16:05:14 GMT 1
That vast majority of football clubs, for the vast majority of their history, have been dependent on some rich folk putting money into the club in order to gain success. It is for the most part how football works and has worked for over a hundred years. Salford are just treading a well worn path... Was thinking the same thing. It’s no different to a man city really.
|
|