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Post by frankwellshrews on May 8, 2019 12:20:07 GMT 1
Looking at the teams coming down, Bolton look set for a heavy points deduction and severe financial problems. Ipswich are also struggling financially, have been out of the Prem for some time and generally lost their pedigree, despite being a bigger club than most in the third tier. Rotherham don't really have any more resources than we do (although perhaps a bit happuer to splash the cash).
At the other end, I think Lincoln and MK Dons will fancy their chances of shooting through again; Dons drawing a crowd of 20k in their last home game. Lincoln on good crowds and feel good factor, plus great management. Neither are likely to have budgets matching those of Blackburn or Wigan in 17/18 though. Bury, well, who knows? Doubtlessly they will splash the cash regardless but as we've seen in previous years that doesn't always count for much.
Assuming Sunderland go up in the playoffs (which I appreciate is far from a foregone conclusion), I think if we can recreate some of the magic of 17/18 we can compete with the likes of Portsmouth and Charlton again; both bigger clubs undoubtedly but again not out of our league.
In terms of other clubs in the division, there are no obvious underachievers in my view this season. Peterborough always seem to be there or thereabouts, I'd never right Burton off (but they're a much smaller club than us). Coventry possibly, but then they will have their own financial troubles to contend with.
In short, I would argue that next season has the potential to be one of the most evenly matched league 1 seasons in recent years; no Leeds, Blackburn, Wigan, Wolves, maybe even no Sunderland to outspend everybody in the division and default to one of the auto or playoff spots.
So, is next season the time to cast off the "standing tall amongst giants" hang ups and reframe ourselves as "competing against equals"? We're in good shape financially; we've run a couple of big spenders close in 17/18, we have to believe we can do the same on a more level playing field in 19/20.
Makings of a decent squad too; Norburn grew into last season, ably supported by Grant. Williams has huge potential. Whalley definitely has a last hurrah in him and in Okenabirie we have a source of goals we never had under Hurst. Provided we can hold on to them and build, I make that the framework of a strong side.
Of course a lot will hinge on whether Ricketts can identify and bring in players of the calibre of Godfrey and Henderson to support our existing squad players though. Campbell in my view showed a lot of potential; an extended loan move for him might be a great start.
I would really like to see us invest in quality, not quantity. Two or 3 decent loan signings, spend some money on two or three players (a goalkeeper probably the first move imo), then look to bring some of our ambitious, energetic youth players into the mix.
Most of all though I want to see some genuine ambition; keep the stronger players we have, supplement them with some genuine quality and have the faith in our youth players to fill the gaps.
Let's sack off the journeymen and give the fans the shot at glory they deserve.
Thoughts? Am I misding something?
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2019 12:41:28 GMT 1
Firstly, lets put to bed this 'makings of a decent squad', we ended up 2 points from relegation, our player of the year has gone back to his parent club, as has another one of the loan signings who goals helped us stay up. Goalkeeper wise we have a lower league/non league journeyman, defensively yes we have Williams but lets not forget we have Waterfall & Beckles who it's fair to say didn't convince everyone this season. Central midfield is our strongest position but is overloaded and up front we will be left with Okenabirie .... and Angol & AAH. So I'd sum up and say we don't have a makings of a decent squad, we have an imbalanced & average squad with small pockets of quality (Williams, Norburn, Whalley & Okenabirie being the best example). Ideally we can get rid of the likes of some of the 'squad players' we've got and then invest in a smaller but better quality squad, complemented by the likes of Rowland, Barnett & Sears
As for league 1 next year, I'd expect Ipswich will spend big (by this leagues standards), Bolton will still probably be able to attract players, we could still have Sunderland, Portsmouth & Charlton, then Coventry dependent on their situation and there is always Peterborough who spend a lot. Last year we showed that we can compete with them if everything comes together but its unrealistic to expect that, however beyond that, it looks an average league once again
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Post by Pilch on May 8, 2019 12:52:16 GMT 1
Frankwell, what your missing is there are 23 other clubs, most with more money doing exactly the same all of them would like to sign a loanee that will become worth 10s of millions within a year or 2
and you make it sound like its a trip to the supermarket, go down the decent keeper aisle and pop one in the trolley
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Post by martinshrew on May 8, 2019 13:07:09 GMT 1
Firstly, lets put to bed this 'makings of a decent squad', we ended up 2 points from relegation, our player of the year has gone back to his parent club, as has another one of the loan signings who goals helped us stay up. Goalkeeper wise we have a lower league/non league journeyman, defensively yes we have Williams but lets not forget we have Waterfall & Beckles who it's fair to say didn't convince everyone this season. Central midfield is our strongest position but is overloaded and up front we will be left with Okenabirie .... and Angol & AAH. So I'd sum up and say we don't have a makings of a decent squad, we have an imbalanced & average squad with small pockets of quality (Williams, Norburn, Whalley & Okenabirie being the best example). Ideally we can get rid of the likes of some of the 'squad players' we've got and then invest in a smaller but better quality squad, complemented by the likes of Rowland, Barnett & Sears As for league 1 next year, I'd expect Ipswich will spend big (by this leagues standards), Bolton will still probably be able to attract players, we could still have Sunderland, Portsmouth & Charlton, then Coventry dependent on their situation and there is always Peterborough who spend a lot. Last year we showed that we can compete with them if everything comes together but its unrealistic to expect that, however beyond that, it looks an average league once again What I've been advocating for some time, a smaller squad with better quality complemented by first year pros.
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Post by Chief Inspector Swan on May 8, 2019 13:23:56 GMT 1
Nice of the first year pros to be so complimentary. It’s good to see you advocating such a positive working environment young Martin.
To shoehorn in a homonym, I can also see the youngsters complementing our first team squad next season, so compliments and complements abound.
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Post by tvor on May 8, 2019 13:31:15 GMT 1
It looks like being a fairly typical League 1 next season, certainly in terms of recent seasons. There will be several big hitters who could be difficult to compete with and a few smaller clubs who could struggle all things being equal. We're likely be somewhere in the middle as we were this season and last.
There is a lot of water to go under the bridge yet before too many assessments can be made. A lot of transfer business to be completed with the usual surprises in terms of comings and goings across the division.
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Post by frankwellshrews on May 8, 2019 13:34:54 GMT 1
Firstly, lets put to bed this 'makings of a decent squad', we ended up 2 points from relegation, our player of the year has gone back to his parent club, as has another one of the loan signings who goals helped us stay up. Yep, we're a league one club, what did you expect? Also, did you read the part of my post where I suggested looking for an extended deal for Campbell? So let's sign a better one. Again, see my post above where I pointed out we needed a new goalkeeper. Except the Match of the Day pundits in Waterfall's case. Also weighed in with a few goals. More to come from that one, imo. But you've just pointed out that Doherty is back at Rangers now so what you're saying is we have 3 pretty decent centre midfielders. Crisis? Hardly. As for AAH and Angol, the latter actually had a pretty decent start to lsst season and evidently has ability. Might be able to be brought back into the fold (or offloaded). The other, well yeah, he's been a dud, I'm not suggesting we build the team around him. You are aware we can sign more players though, right? Firstly, those two concepts are not mutually exclusive; you can have a small imbalanced squad that has the makings of a decent squad due to the "small pockets of quality" you mentioned. Secondly, is there an echo in here? You literally just namechecked the players I identified back to me. I'd include Grant in that too, and I'd chuck Bolton and Waterfall in as being able to raise their game and support our stronger players. I make that 7 players who I'd be happy to see in our team next season. Add in 3 good loan signings, a couple of marquee signings and support from our youth plus a few reserve players as cover and there you go; a decent squad. There's that echo again. Literally what I said in my first post. Again that analysis looks remarkably similar to my own except you seem to assume, like a lot of people, that Ipswich will have a big budget because..... they were in the Prem a decade ago? One of the reasons they bought Hurst in was because they believed he could work magic on a shoestring. They relied heavily on loan players last season, finished comfortably bottom of the league and will have to rebuild an entire squad more or less. Going to be a lot harder for them than people seem to realise imo. As for Bolton, their budget is less of an issue if they start with a 25 to 30 point deduction.
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Post by frankwellshrews on May 8, 2019 13:39:40 GMT 1
Frankwell, what your missing is there are 23 other clubs, most with more money doing exactly the same all of them would like to sign a loanee that will become worth 10s of millions within a year or 2 and you make it sound like its a trip to the supermarket, go down the decent keeper aisle and pop one in the trolley Did you read the sentence where I said tge whole thing will hinge on whether Sam can find a couple if gems like Hurst did? But let's not overlook that. Hurst found two loan signings of the highest calibre and in Nsiala and Nolan bought two players we were able to sell on at a profit. The talent is out there, it's whether we have a manager capable of identifying it. Budget wise, I refute your suggesrion that most of the other 23 will have more money than us. I would suggest that this season and next our wage budget will put us in the top half of spenders, possibly higher if Roland wills it.
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Post by martinshrew on May 8, 2019 13:43:51 GMT 1
Frankwell, what your missing is there are 23 other clubs, most with more money doing exactly the same all of them would like to sign a loanee that will become worth 10s of millions within a year or 2 and you make it sound like its a trip to the supermarket, go down the decent keeper aisle and pop one in the trolley Did you read the sentence where I said tge whole thing will hinge on whether Sam can find a couple if gems like Hurst did? But let's not overlook that. Hurst found two loan signings of the highest calibre and in Nsiala and Nolan bought two players we were able to sell on at a profit. The talent is out there, it's whether we have a manager capable of identifying it. Budget wise, I refute your suggesrion that most of the other 23 will have more money than us. I would suggest that this season and next our wage budget will put us in the top half of spenders, possibly higher if Roland wills it. Under Mellon we had the 9th highest budget in the league, under Hurst it was alleged to be 12-14th. We will without doubt have bigger budgets than the likes of Wycombe, Accrington etc.
There is nothing stopping us having a 12th place budget next season and finishing top half if we recruit well and if Roland allows.
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Post by Pilch on May 8, 2019 14:19:48 GMT 1
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on May 8, 2019 16:45:16 GMT 1
Looking at the teams coming down, Bolton look set for a heavy points deduction and severe financial problems. Ipswich are also struggling financially, have been out of the Prem for some time and generally lost their pedigree, despite being a bigger club than most in the third tier. Rotherham don't really have any more resources than we do (although perhaps a bit happuer to splash the cash). At the other end, I think Lincoln and MK Dons will fancy their chances of shooting through again; Dons drawing a crowd of 20k in their last home game. Lincoln on good crowds and feel good factor, plus great management. Neither are likely to have budgets matching those of Blackburn or Wigan in 17/18 though. Bury, well, who knows? Doubtlessly they will splash the cash regardless but as we've seen in previous years that doesn't always count for much. Assuming Sunderland go up in the playoffs (which I appreciate is far from a foregone conclusion), I think if we can recreate some of the magic of 17/18 we can compete with the likes of Portsmouth and Charlton again; both bigger clubs undoubtedly but again not out of our league. In terms of other clubs in the division, there are no obvious underachievers in my view this season. Peterborough always seem to be there or thereabouts, I'd never right Burton off (but they're a much smaller club than us). Coventry possibly, but then they will have their own financial troubles to contend with. In short, I would argue that next season has the potential to be one of the most evenly matched league 1 seasons in recent years; no Leeds, Blackburn, Wigan, Wolves, maybe even no Sunderland to outspend everybody in the division and default to one of the auto or playoff spots. So, is next season the time to cast off the "standing tall amongst giants" hang ups and reframe ourselves as "competing against equals"? We're in good shape financially; we've run a couple of big spenders close in 17/18, we have to believe we can do the same on a more level playing field in 19/20. Makings of a decent squad too; Norburn grew into last season, ably supported by Grant. Williams has huge potential. Whalley definitely has a last hurrah in him and in Okenabirie we have a source of goals we never had under Hurst. Provided we can hold on to them and build, I make that the framework of a strong side. Of course a lot will hinge on whether Ricketts can identify and bring in players of the calibre of Godfrey and Henderson to support our existing squad players though. Campbell in my view showed a lot of potential; an extended loan move for him might be a great start. I would really like to see us invest in quality, not quantity. Two or 3 decent loan signings, spend some money on two or three players (a goalkeeper probably the first move imo), then look to bring some of our ambitious, energetic youth players into the mix. Most of all though I want to see some genuine ambition; keep the stronger players we have, supplement them with some genuine quality and have the faith in our youth players to fill the gaps. Let's sack off the journeymen and give the fans the shot at glory they deserve. Thoughts? Am I misding something? Nice post. I do admire your positivity but I’m sure you have already realised it doesn’t get you very far on this forum....... But hopefully at least some folk like me realise what you are trying to do.
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Post by Namur on May 8, 2019 19:28:03 GMT 1
If nothing else, it would be good for supporters to stop living under the ‘little old Shrewsbury’ tag that we are often given by the media and believe in ourselves a little more.
Last season it was almost like we had no right to be high in the table. Quite often it seems that teams from the old industrial heartlands and the go-getting Home Counties are taken more seriously. I think a lot of ‘rural’ teams get the same tag, a quirky little oddity not amounting to much.
The big sides in L1 are there for a reason and need to earn success like any other. And should we really have no right to be equals to AFC Wimbledon, Burton Albion and Rochdale?
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Post by martinshrew on May 9, 2019 0:00:17 GMT 1
If nothing else, it would be good for supporters to stop living under the ‘little old Shrewsbury’ tag that we are often given by the media and believe in ourselves a little more. Last season it was almost like we had no right to be high in the table. Quite often it seems that teams from the old industrial heartlands and the go-getting Home Counties are taken more seriously. I think a lot of ‘rural’ teams get the same tag, a quirky little oddity not amounting to much. The big sides in L1 are there for a reason and need to earn success like any other. And should we really have no right to be equals to AFC Wimbledon, Burton Albion and Rochdale? In fact I'd argue we're bigger than all three.
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