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Post by gainsparkshrew on Sept 30, 2019 16:42:19 GMT 1
Bury fans on their board know that this won't happen. The National League will not accept any club with financial problems, hence why Gateshead were relegated at the end of last season. Coupled with there just isn't a spare space for Bury to fit in. As it's almost certain that Bury will be wound up in the coming weeks, when HMRC take the club to the High Court, they will restart as a phoenix club, therefore almost certainly in the North West Counties League Division 1
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Sept 30, 2019 16:53:57 GMT 1
If you were cynical you’d think that Andy Burnham was a politician looking for votes I should add that as he’s my mayor I think he’s doing a good job for Manchester.
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Post by LetchworthShrew on Sept 30, 2019 19:14:19 GMT 1
National League are tough on clubs with financial issues so think they'll have a hard time getting any joy there.
At the end of last season Gateshead were deducted points and had their licence withdrawn effectively thowing them out of the League. It was reinstated but they were demoted to National North.
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Post by northwestman on Sept 30, 2019 20:25:29 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on Oct 1, 2019 12:17:09 GMT 1
Statement from 'Forever Bury' group. Apologies for its length!
'The options ahead are as follows.
Legal action against the EFL.
The option to take legal action against the EFL comes with pros and cons, some of which could be detrimental to the future relationship with the EFL.
Cons
Costings
Legal action against the EFL could be costly and may not guarantee results. We would all need to foot the bill for EFL legal costs if we lose case.
Future Relationship
Should the football club get back into the league in the future, the club would naturally have to have a relationship with the League. Legal action could cause issues going forward.
Uncertainty
If we win case, it may still not result in being readmitted to the football league.
Timing
We would not instigate proceedings until Mr Dale has left the club as any compensation as a result of legal action would go directly to the owner of the Club.
Pros
Could win case.
Possible re-admittance to League; more likely to be given compensation, like Sheffield United; this could be considerable.
Address an injustice
Make everyone feel better.
Potential Bidder
We appreciate that there have been many times where we have been in the situation where we have talked about potential bidders. This has been the case many times over the last four months, some of whom have been very credible people who most people in this place would have been more than happy to have taken charge of our Club. However, like most of the individuals we have had contact with, they have given up trying to deal with Mr Dale and have walked away; some having gone on turning their interest towards other Clubs. You can imagine how frustrating this has been for the Forever Bury team who between them have spent literally thousands of hours trying to get just one of these opportunities over the line. However, Forever Bury has remained steadfast in their attempt to save Bury Football Club from the mismanagement of the current owner. From relationships Forever Bury has nurtured up over the months, we were approached by a prospective bidder, who at this moment in time wants to remain anonymous.
Since that time, we have had constructive discussions and have provided professional help, relevant financial, club and league structure information even contact information for each of the relevant parties. Further, on the request of the bidder, James Frith was invited to be a part of the ongoing discussions.
Their intention is to work in collaboration with the Forever Bury, Bury Council and numerous local organisations and businesses to create a community-led football club.
They believe it’s time for a big change in the way clubs such as Bury are run and are working with organisations with a vested interest to get ready to step up to the challenge.
Although we have been in collaboration with the bidder for some time, there is much work to be done. Their intention is to get all the relevant parties and organisations with vested interests lined up before making a bid for the club. Preparation work before bidding will ensure a much smoother process going forward.
The bidder has provided the following statement.
"The statement issued by the EFL on 26th September after their assessment of the passionate and credible request from various parties to allow readmission to league 2 next season was gutting and disappointing.
However, the content was not unexpected. The current situation regarding the corporate future of The Bury Football Club Limited, whose majority shareholder is Mr Dale, is complex, to say the least.
Such complexities require careful and considered solutions, which, in turn, also require time and patience to allow meaningful progress to be made.
It must be placed on record at this stage that the current financial situation which has been allowed to develop over recent years is nothing short of catastrophic. In light of this, the statement made by the EFL last week was understandable.
The work carried out over recent weeks by the Rescue Board and, in particular, the members of Forever Bury, has been exemplary. Bury Football Club, the supporters and the community are indeed fortunate to have such dedication and passion at its core. It is unfortunate that this degree of support has not resulted in retention of an EFL place for next season. However, the fact that we are prepared to make this statement after the EFL ruling should be treated as confirmation that Bury Football Club is still alive.
As mentioned earlier, the complex ongoing discussions require a level of confidentiality. A plea goes out to Bury FC fans to respect that confidentiality at this stage whilst we continue to engage with all relevant parties, but please be assured that all avenues will continue to be explored, always with the future existence of a community-based club playing football at Gigg Lane being the main focus.
We request that you continue to support the Rescue Board in their work, and we will continue to do the same.
Please be patient, continue to respect confidences and pull together for the greater good of Bury Football Club.
Thank you for listening."
We must be clear when we say that the club is not dead. Yes, it is a shell and is Bury Football Club in name only. However, by saving the club we save the history and we save the membership of the Football Association which is absolutely crucial going forward.
Without the membership of the Football Association, any phoenix club would have to apply to be a member of the FA and start right at the bottom of the pyramid, North West Counties league, the 10th tier of football, just like AFC Wimbledon did.
If we can save the Club, and as a result the membership of the Football Association, we would be able to potentially start higher. Initial discussions have shown that this could possibly be the Conference North, the 6th tier. This could theoretically save us at least 4 years of work and this is the best-case scenario of back to back promotions every year.
If we can get the potential bidder across the finishing line it would maintain the name, the history, the FA membership and crucially years of hard work to get us back into the football league.
Phoenix Club
Recently, we were approached by a group of fans that have been working on starting a Phoenix Club. They have made good progress in preparing the groundwork should a Phoenix Club be needed. Our priority at the time of the approach was to save Bury Football Club at all costs. So, we as a board asked for them to carry on with their efforts in the background.
The energies of the Phoenix Club working group have been greatly appreciated and have been growing further in strength and organisation.
They have been diligently putting together a list identifying potential volunteers with relevant skill sets. Their efforts have resulted in the recruitment of more than 100 volunteers who want to be involved in taking the Phoenix Club project forward.
A full application and business plan must be submitted to the FA by January 2020 in order for a Phoenix Club to play next season, so time is of the essence. Because of this short time frame and the fact Forever Bury's time and resources are currently taken up attempting to save Bury FC Ltd, we are tonight endorsing this group to take the Phoenix Club feasibility study forward.
While we hope it won't be needed, we must be prepared if it is. Later this week the working group will be meeting to provide a working structure that they can present to the public when the time is right
Whatever peoples’ views are toward a Phoenix Club, it has to be said it is a massive undertaking requiring substantial human and financial resources. It is a commitment not to be undertaken lightly by the individuals that put themselves forward to lead such a project. The challenges are considerable, not least raising the finance to secure and operate Gigg Lane, or an alternative venue and to pay any full time employees to head up the project administration, as it would be doubtful if this latter task could be undertaken on a strictly voluntary basis.
Liquidation
Should a solvent sale not happen in the coming weeks it is likely that the Club will be liquidated. This could be brought about in several ways:
If Mr Dale starts the process – he would then be in control.
If Capital Bridging Finance starts the process – they could call in their loan
If Mr Wiseglass starts the process – as a result of non-payment of the CVA
However, it is most likely be done by the HMRC on 16 October via their winding up petition.
It is speculated that should the Club be liquidated there may well be several parties who would be interested in taking the Club from the liquidator as a debt free entity. This on the face of it is an attractive option but may result in the Club starting off in a lower league than a solvent sale. However, such an eventuality would have to be weighed against the saving of not having to honour the CVA and paying the owner; approximately £2M.
On the plus side of this argument is that it would be unlikely that the FA would readmit Bury, based at Gigg Lane, in Tiers 8, 9 or 10 based on clubs at these levels being unable to accommodate large away followings safely. However, these assumptions would need to be tested.
Summary
In summary, we are asking you, the supporters of Bury Football Club to support us in our plan going forward. That is to try and save the football club with the prospective buyer we are currently in discussions with, or any other party should this one fail, and to continue the work with the working party for the formation of a new phoenix club should the need arise'.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2019 20:52:26 GMT 1
Soddoff and try to be more dignified.
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Post by northwestman on Oct 2, 2019 9:45:55 GMT 1
Here's why Bury are not a special case - Martin Samuel, Daily Mail.
Quite rightly, 70 of 71 Football League clubs voted not to treat Bury differently by readmitting them to the competition next season.
Previously, clubs that have gone into liquidation and reformed have returned further down football's pyramid, as seems fair.
Many have rebuilt on a sounder financial footing and are again close to where they started. There is, however, an unhealthy sense of entitlement around Bury.
It is argued they have history — as if those who folded before them did not — and should resume in League Two next season, preferred to a better-run club, denied promotion from the National League.
Local politicians are on their side with one, Ivan Lewis, MP for Bury South, threatening to take the EFL to court.
Yet, where was Lewis, or Andy Burnham, mayor of Manchester, when Hereford United went under?
If anything, Hereford's FA Cup exploits as a Southern League club defeating Newcastle in 1972 are more readily recalled than Bury winning it in 1900 and 1903.
And Chester City — founded in 1885, incidentally, the same year as Bury — produced one of British football's greatest goalscorers, Ian Rush.
The fact is, none of this mattered when these clubs could not afford to exist. To treat Bury as a special case in effect endorses the methods that brought them here.
It says that poor ownership does not matter, reckless over-spending does not matter, that as long as you have been in the club long enough, we'll see you right. 'Bury deserved more respect from the football family,' bemoaned Burnham.
No, the football family deserved more respect from Bury. They are not special, everybody is. That's why everybody gets treated the same.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2019 9:59:19 GMT 1
Here's why Bury are not a special case - Martin Samuel, Daily Mail. Quite rightly, 70 of 71 Football League clubs voted not to treat Bury differently by readmitting them to the competition next season. Previously, clubs that have gone into liquidation and reformed have returned further down football's pyramid, as seems fair. Many have rebuilt on a sounder financial footing and are again close to where they started. There is, however, an unhealthy sense of entitlement around Bury. It is argued they have history — as if those who folded before them did not — and should resume in League Two next season, preferred to a better-run club, denied promotion from the National League. Local politicians are on their side with one, Ivan Lewis, MP for Bury South, threatening to take the EFL to court. Yet, where was Lewis, or Andy Burnham, mayor of Manchester, when Hereford United went under? If anything, Hereford's FA Cup exploits as a Southern League club defeating Newcastle in 1972 are more readily recalled than Bury winning it in 1900 and 1903. And Chester City — founded in 1885, incidentally, the same year as Bury — produced one of British football's greatest goalscorers, Ian Rush. The fact is, none of this mattered when these clubs could not afford to exist. To treat Bury as a special case in effect endorses the methods that brought them here. It says that poor ownership does not matter, reckless over-spending does not matter, that as long as you have been in the club long enough, we'll see you right. 'Bury deserved more respect from the football family,' bemoaned Burnham. No, the football family deserved more respect from Bury. They are not special, everybody is. That's why everybody gets treated the same. An excellent article. Sums it up just perfectly.
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Post by ssshrew on Oct 2, 2019 11:46:44 GMT 1
Here's why Bury are not a special case - Martin Samuel, Daily Mail. Quite rightly, 70 of 71 Football League clubs voted not to treat Bury differently by readmitting them to the competition next season. Previously, clubs that have gone into liquidation and reformed have returned further down football's pyramid, as seems fair. Many have rebuilt on a sounder financial footing and are again close to where they started. There is, however, an unhealthy sense of entitlement around Bury. It is argued they have history — as if those who folded before them did not — and should resume in League Two next season, preferred to a better-run club, denied promotion from the National League. Local politicians are on their side with one, Ivan Lewis, MP for Bury South, threatening to take the EFL to court. Yet, where was Lewis, or Andy Burnham, mayor of Manchester, when Hereford United went under? If anything, Hereford's FA Cup exploits as a Southern League club defeating Newcastle in 1972 are more readily recalled than Bury winning it in 1900 and 1903. And Chester City — founded in 1885, incidentally, the same year as Bury — produced one of British football's greatest goalscorers, Ian Rush. The fact is, none of this mattered when these clubs could not afford to exist. To treat Bury as a special case in effect endorses the methods that brought them here. It says that poor ownership does not matter, reckless over-spending does not matter, that as long as you have been in the club long enough, we'll see you right. 'Bury deserved more respect from the football family,' bemoaned Burnham. No, the football family deserved more respect from Bury. They are not special, everybody is. That's why everybody gets treated the same. Not often I agree with the Daily Mail but there’s always an exception to the rule. Spot on.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2019 13:48:37 GMT 1
What an exceptional article.much better than my slightly inebriated soddoff post.bury fc should be embarrassed the way they are conducting their affairs.
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Post by northwestman on Oct 6, 2019 10:13:59 GMT 1
No game next Sat thanks to Bury's demise.
Not sure yet what to do. Probably watch St Helens v Salford on TV.
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Post by scooter on Oct 6, 2019 12:33:41 GMT 1
No game next Sat thanks to Bury's demise. Not sure yet what to do. Probably watch St Helens v Salford on TV. With Pierre and Beckles away with Grenada it is just as well we don’t have a game
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Post by theriverside on Oct 9, 2019 7:52:50 GMT 1
And now their owner has been burgled of £500k of watches supposedly, by someone who the Echo describe as a 'well known Liverpool businessman'......................in the same vein Curtis Warren would be termed as having a 'globally renowned business empire'
Just sounds the slightest bit fishy to me..........
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Post by northwestman on Oct 9, 2019 8:37:57 GMT 1
And now their owner has been burgled of £500k of watches supposedly, by someone who the Echo describe as a 'well known Liverpool businessman'......................in the same vein Curtis Warren would be termed as having a 'globally renowned business empire'
Just sounds the slightest bit fishy to me..........
The same 'well known Liverpool businessman' was involved in this - only just got out of prison. www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-gun-swap-gang-jailed-16-4049303
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Post by Dale on Oct 9, 2019 17:51:48 GMT 1
No game next Sat thanks to Bury's demise. Not sure yet what to do. Probably watch St Helens v Salford on TV. It’s Non League Day across the UK, maybe you could go and watch your local non league side?
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Post by South Stand Salopian on Oct 9, 2019 23:11:21 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on Oct 10, 2019 17:27:42 GMT 1
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Post by South Stand Salopian on Oct 10, 2019 18:04:25 GMT 1
Was anything said about Bury at the SP last night? The club have yet to make any sort of comment about how supporters will be compensated for missing out on a game they’ve paid for... To be fair I’m a bit surprised there hasn’t been a massive clamour of people asking for money off, free cup games etc.
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Post by frankwellshrews on Oct 10, 2019 20:13:15 GMT 1
Was anything said about Bury at the SP last night? The club have yet to make any sort of comment about how supporters will be compensated for missing out on a game they’ve paid for... To be fair I’m a bit surprised there hasn’t been a massive clamour of people asking for money off, free cup games etc. I dropped the ball a bit there, forgot to email it in. Would be interested to know if much was said though.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Oct 10, 2019 22:01:25 GMT 1
Was anything said about Bury at the SP last night? The club have yet to make any sort of comment about how supporters will be compensated for missing out on a game they’ve paid for... To be fair I’m a bit surprised there hasn’t been a massive clamour of people asking for money off, free cup games etc. I guess the ST holders are pretty much 50/50 divided between those who want the club to honour their commitment for 23 games for their cost and those that understand that the situation isnt anything that the club can do much about. Add on the fact that the club (all other clubs in the division are in the same boat) are going to lose out financially by losing 1 home game as well. This is not a dig by the way at those who feel they should get something in return for missing 1 game, but just to show that there are two sides to this sorry fiasco that was allowed to happen by the incompetent EFL. I'm sure the club are aware of the situation and will try and find someway to offer some sort of compensation to those ST holders who have currently lost out if they can. As 1st and 2nd Rd FA Cup games are generally offered at cheaper rates that isnt likely to be any way of offering something (assuming we get a home draw in those game). Possibly going forward get a decent 3rd Rd draw at home might be a chance to offer something to those losing out. If not maybe free travel to an away game later in the season is another possibility, and finally a discount to those who renew their ST next season is another. I'd be a little disappointed if the club dont do something about the situation (will state it again that is of no doing of the club), and I'm not a ST holder.
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Post by theriverside on Oct 11, 2019 7:35:08 GMT 1
Not strictly true this, as I understand it clubs will all recieve a share of Burys EFL/TV money to compensate for the loss of the home fixture.
I'm not too bothered about losing the fixture myself, but it would be nice if the club used at least some of the extra income to encourage fans to a game.
Maybe choose a single match to do a more widespread offer of free tickets to schools? I think they still do the giveaway to groups/schools/clubs but sending tickets out to every school in the area for one specific game would give them opportunity to make a real event of it, some extra stuff going on before the game, flyers to push the free season ticket offer for next season, and fill blocks 1/2/6/7 with an extra 1500 future fans. Would be money spent on food/merch on the day and potentially a great investment for bringing new supporters on board.
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Post by South Stand Salopian on Oct 11, 2019 17:55:22 GMT 1
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Post by RBA on Oct 11, 2019 18:51:33 GMT 1
Was anything said about Bury at the SP last night? The club have yet to make any sort of comment about how supporters will be compensated for missing out on a game they’ve paid for... To be fair I’m a bit surprised there hasn’t been a massive clamour of people asking for money off, free cup games etc. I dropped the ball a bit there, forgot to email it in. Would be interested to know if much was said though. this was mentioned at the SP and various ideas came up from making next years season ticket slightly cheaper to looking at reducing ticket prices for a cup game but nothing was decided The club not unreasonably point out they will lose a lot of money with the game not being played from both ticket sales and obviously money from fan zone etc etc and they were also keen to see what other clubs were going to do and if possible act in unison with them. However nothing was decided but the issue was raised and is being seriously considered by the club.
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Post by frankwellshrews on Oct 12, 2019 0:30:35 GMT 1
I dropped the ball a bit there, forgot to email it in. Would be interested to know if much was said though. this was mentioned at the SP and various ideas came up from making next years season ticket slightly cheaper to looking at reducing ticket prices for a cup game but nothing was decided The club not unreasonably point out they will lose a lot of money with the game not being played from both ticket sales and obviously money from fan zone etc etc and they were also keen to see what other clubs were going to do and if possible act in unison with them. However nothing was decided but the issue was raised and is being seriously considered by the club. Thanks - all perfectly reasonable responses, particularly agree with the concept of acting in unison with other clubs. As ever though, it could just do with being communicated better, even if it's a brief statement just to acknowledge it is being looked into. From my perspective (and I'd imagine a lot of other people's) it's more a question of principle and feeling like the club don't just take the support for granted than actual compensation.
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Post by thecyberinsider on Oct 13, 2019 10:11:51 GMT 1
I dropped the ball a bit there, forgot to email it in. Would be interested to know if much was said though. The club not unreasonably point out they will lose a lot of money with the game not being played from both ticket sales and obviously money from fan zone Money from the fanzone? So are the club saying they make money from the fanzone? The same club whose directors told us there would not be a supporters bar at the new ground as the don't make money!
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Post by blueandamber on Oct 13, 2019 11:32:34 GMT 1
The club not unreasonably point out they will lose a lot of money with the game not being played from both ticket sales and obviously money from fan zone Money from the fanzone? So are the club saying they make money from the fanzone? The same club whose directors told us there would not be a supporters bar at the new ground as the don't make money! I noticed this too. If it is a money maker for the club, it's a no brainer to keep improving the facilities on offer within it. (As they have recently to be fair)
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Post by RBA on Oct 13, 2019 18:46:20 GMT 1
Money from the fanzone? So are the club saying they make money from the fanzone? The same club whose directors told us there would not be a supporters bar at the new ground as the don't make money! I noticed this too. If it is a money maker for the club, it's a no brainer to keep improving the facilities on offer within it. (As they have recently to be fair) in fairness that may be my understanding that they hope to make money from it ! it was a long meeting with a lot of good things obviously happening especially on the community side
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prawnsarnie
Midland League Division Two
[k4r]
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Post by prawnsarnie on Oct 13, 2019 22:18:35 GMT 1
The club not unreasonably point out they will lose a lot of money with the game not being played from both ticket sales and obviously money from fan zone Money from the fanzone? So are the club saying they make money from the fanzone? The same club whose directors told us there would not be a supporters bar at the new ground as the don't make money! I’d suggest that a Fanzone and a Supporter’s Bar are two different things- one brings money in and has associated costs on an event only basis, the other could be more permanent and have costs throughout the week, with no guarantee of numbers or sales to cover those costs? The Powerleague opportunity changed everything as all of a sudden a facility became available at little or no cost that could be utilised to the benefit of the Community and the club.
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Post by thecyberinsider on Oct 14, 2019 7:07:17 GMT 1
Money from the fanzone? So are the club saying they make money from the fanzone? The same club whose directors told us there would not be a supporters bar at the new ground as the don't make money! I’d suggest that a Fanzone and a Supporter’s Bar are two different things- one brings money in and has associated costs on an event only basis, the other could be more permanent and have costs throughout the week, with no guarantee of numbers or sales to cover those costs? The Powerleague opportunity changed everything as all of a sudden a facility became available at little or no cost that could be utilised to the benefit of the Community and the club. Interesting answer. Thanks.
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Post by northwestman on Oct 14, 2019 18:33:43 GMT 1
Forever Bury Statement 14/10/2019
We regret to inform the supporters of Bury Football Club that the interested party who has been working with Forever Bury on a proposed bid to buy the club has confirmed this is no longer a viable prospect for them.
As matters have unfolded and the necessary due diligence has been undertaken, the complex, complicated and financially distressed situation at Bury Football Club has resulted in their decision to stand back from further discussions.
Resulting from this news, Forever Bury will not now be putting forward a legal defence against the HMRC winding up petition on Wednesday 16th October 2019, as we believe there is no longer adequate evidence to suggest a meaningful case could be made.
We will update you further as developments unfold.
So, that should be that then!
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