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Post by simianbenzoate on Mar 28, 2019 20:02:42 GMT 1
It's not a vote, it's a consultation used to inform a parliamentary vote. It's exactly the same as emailing your MP to present your view on a particular vote they are likely to take part in. No one bothers doing that either, but people just want to complain about the EU doing it because it's the EU
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Post by buryshrew on Mar 28, 2019 20:24:36 GMT 1
Right, so as referred to previously, it’s the decision of 27 people, who may or may not use the results of an opinion poll made up of a minority of poeple who are somehow aware that their opinion is being sought, whilst the massive majority are blissfully unaware of the entire consultation process.
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Post by thesensationaljt on Mar 28, 2019 20:30:11 GMT 1
They haven't made a final decision yet, the clock is ticking.....
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Post by simianbenzoate on Mar 28, 2019 21:05:00 GMT 1
Right, so as referred to previously, it’s the decision of 27 people, who may or may not use the results of an opinion poll made up of a minority of poeple who are somehow aware that their opinion is being sought, whilst the massive majority are blissfully unaware of the entire consultation process. No. It's a decision of 28 council members and 751 MEPs. And yes there's a possibility the consultation may not be heeded, but the point of it is to make sure the legislation works for the people it's made for, so the various sectors' advice is well regarded. The ordinary EU citizen still has an opportunity to have a say, it may be ignored in favour of other ideas but welcome to democracy, exactly the same happens at the level of your council, your constituency and your country. Those that are politically engaged know this, because they care to find out. If you don't care that's hardly the EU's fault, and as referred to previously, most people complaining about this are just as unlikely to have ever got involved with the exact same process within the UK unless it really affects them (e.g. planning permission for the new ground, the road changes around the Meole roundabout). I think more should be done in schools to make people more aware of how society works, without the propaganda they're likely to receive from parents with entrenched views; that includes how the political system works here and in the EU. I get that many are blissfully unaware, but now you know, so go do something with it
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 7:43:05 GMT 1
What difference does that make? It was open to anyone from EU countries to vote on. bloody europeans, bothering to exercise their democratic rights whilst we choose to naval gaze in sublime ignorance, but then blame the europeans for ignoring us and being undemocratic when we realise actually its been our own fault all along. Splitters!!!
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Post by ballsdeep on Mar 29, 2019 9:36:11 GMT 1
What difference does that make? It was open to anyone from EU countries to vote on. bloody europeans, bothering to exercise their democratic rights whilst we choose to naval gaze in sublime ignorance, but then blame the europeans for ignoring us and being undemocratic when we realise actually its been our own fault all along. Splitters!!! back of the que sonny gotta teach the kids about lgbg,t gender discrimination,religion related matters and then possibly teach them something that might help them in life later. English and English history last no doubt. Then your EU or as I like, Elite Union. What a mad world
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Post by martinshrew on Mar 29, 2019 10:02:58 GMT 1
Right, so as referred to previously, it’s the decision of 27 people, who may or may not use the results of an opinion poll made up of a minority of poeple who are somehow aware that their opinion is being sought, whilst the massive majority are blissfully unaware of the entire consultation process. No. It's a decision of 28 council members and 751 MEPs. And yes there's a possibility the consultation may not be heeded, but the point of it is to make sure the legislation works for the people it's made for, so the various sectors' advice is well regarded. The ordinary EU citizen still has an opportunity to have a say, it may be ignored in favour of other ideas but welcome to democracy, exactly the same happens at the level of your council, your constituency and your country. Those that are politically engaged know this, because they care to find out. If you don't care that's hardly the EU's fault, and as referred to previously, most people complaining about this are just as unlikely to have ever got involved with the exact same process within the UK unless it really affects them (e.g. planning permission for the new ground, the road changes around the Meole roundabout). I think more should be done in schools to make people more aware of how society works, without the propaganda they're likely to receive from parents with entrenched views; that includes how the political system works here and in the EU. I get that many are blissfully unaware, but now you know, so go do something with it There's a huge amount that should be taught in schools that isn't. School effectively drill you into the mindset of working for somebody, they don't encourage entrepreneurship or educate pupils in life skills such as taxation, accounting and other useful real life skills. I feel if schools encouraged better business related study, information around mortgages, loans, UK political structure etc, real life things, pupils would be better placed.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 10:05:48 GMT 1
bloody europeans, bothering to exercise their democratic rights whilst we choose to naval gaze in sublime ignorance, but then blame the europeans for ignoring us and being undemocratic when we realise actually its been our own fault all along. Splitters!!! back of the que sonny gotta teach the kids about lgbg,t gender discrimination,religion related matters and then possibly teach them something that might help them in life later. English and English history last no doubt. Then your EU or as I like, Elite Union. What a mad world Great post but you’ve misspelt queue! Or are you living proof that English came last 👍
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 10:07:20 GMT 1
No. It's a decision of 28 council members and 751 MEPs. And yes there's a possibility the consultation may not be heeded, but the point of it is to make sure the legislation works for the people it's made for, so the various sectors' advice is well regarded. The ordinary EU citizen still has an opportunity to have a say, it may be ignored in favour of other ideas but welcome to democracy, exactly the same happens at the level of your council, your constituency and your country. Those that are politically engaged know this, because they care to find out. If you don't care that's hardly the EU's fault, and as referred to previously, most people complaining about this are just as unlikely to have ever got involved with the exact same process within the UK unless it really affects them (e.g. planning permission for the new ground, the road changes around the Meole roundabout). I think more should be done in schools to make people more aware of how society works, without the propaganda they're likely to receive from parents with entrenched views; that includes how the political system works here and in the EU. I get that many are blissfully unaware, but now you know, so go do something with it There's a huge amount that should be taught in schools that isn't. School effectively drill you into the mindset of working for somebody, they don't encourage entrepreneurship or educate pupils in life skills such as taxation, accounting and other useful real life skills. I feel if schools encouraged better business related study, information around mortgages, loans, UK political structure etc, real life things, pupils would be better placed. Is the national curriculum dictated by the eu or the department of education?
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Post by martinshrew on Mar 29, 2019 10:10:34 GMT 1
There's a huge amount that should be taught in schools that isn't. School effectively drill you into the mindset of working for somebody, they don't encourage entrepreneurship or educate pupils in life skills such as taxation, accounting and other useful real life skills. I feel if schools encouraged better business related study, information around mortgages, loans, UK political structure etc, real life things, pupils would be better placed. Is the national curriculum dictated by the eu or the department of education? It's not something I'd know. It wasn't a dig at the EU, just the education given to pupils in this country. I'd have found it far more productive studying inflation, taxation, corporation tax, mortgages, loans, GDP etc rather than finding the length of a missing side of a triangle or algebraic equations.
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Post by shrewinjapan on Mar 29, 2019 10:20:44 GMT 1
I enjoy the long summer evenings so would hope we don’t revert to GMT for the whole year There is no reason why BST couldn't be used for the whole year. It's been mooted before.
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Post by thesensationaljt on Mar 29, 2019 11:11:27 GMT 1
For you young whippersnappers, a Harold Wilson government introduced legislation that BST was to be used all year round between 1968 to 1971. Analysis later showed that while there was an increase in accidents in the morning, there was a significant decrease in the afternoon to the tune of 2,500 fewer deaths and serious accidents.
Desperate to grab defeat in face of a resounding success, the HoC voted to revert to GMT in 1972.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 11:42:26 GMT 1
The school I taught at had a subject which covered all these plus things like health education etc. It dates back to the days of CSE and Mode 3 where schools could set their own examinable subjects and they were obviously validated in the end externally. With the advent of GCSEs this became no longer possible. I constantly smile every time that there is a movement to teach such and such which we used to cover.
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Post by ballsdeep on Mar 29, 2019 14:39:41 GMT 1
back of the que sonny gotta teach the kids about lgbg,t gender discrimination,religion related matters and then possibly teach them something that might help them in life later. English and English history last no doubt. Then your EU or as I like, Elite Union. What a mad world Great post but you’ve misspelt queue! Or are you living proof that English came last 👍 I don’t like the way it’s spelt, spell it right and it looks french.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 15:14:33 GMT 1
Great post but you’ve misspelt queue! Or are you living proof that English came last 👍 I don’t like the way it’s spelt, spell it right and it looks french. 😂👍
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 15:16:25 GMT 1
Is the national curriculum dictated by the eu or the department of education? It's not something I'd know. It wasn't a dig at the EU, just the education given to pupils in this country. I'd have found it far more productive studying inflation, taxation, corporation tax, mortgages, loans, GDP etc rather than finding the length of a missing side of a triangle or algebraic equations. My mistake! 👍
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Drew
Midland League Division One
Posts: 416
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Post by Drew on Mar 29, 2019 20:09:00 GMT 1
Sums up perfectly in 1 article everything that’s wrong with the odious EU. www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-47704345MEP’s from 27 random nations having a binding say on our country’s rules and laws The vote of which was based on a survey that had 70% of replies by Germans No deal on 29th March please and take back control and end this madness Having a say over the 13% of our laws that involve the EU because we agreed to that as part of joining. Do you actually care one way or the other about DST, or do you just hate it because the EU said it? If you want to get on a high horse, maybe look at article 11 and 13 which could cause real issues for internet freedoms. Thankfully they at least seem to have scr@pped the memes part of it, not that this board would be too affected... I've seen you post this 13% figure a couple of times lately. Why are you posting discredited figures to support your arguments?
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Post by Red Rose In Exile on Mar 29, 2019 20:10:36 GMT 1
GREENWICH mean time. Simples
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Post by Red Rose In Exile on Mar 29, 2019 20:11:18 GMT 1
GREENWICH mean time. Simples All of the world timing is based on GREENWICH
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Post by Red Rose In Exile on Mar 29, 2019 20:12:03 GMT 1
GREENWICH mean time. Simples All of the world timing is based on GREENWICH You will be telling me next that we want to leave the EU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Red Rose In Exile on Mar 29, 2019 20:28:20 GMT 1
All of the world timing is based on GREENWICH You will be telling me next that we want to leave the EU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by simianbenzoate on Mar 29, 2019 21:32:59 GMT 1
Having a say over the 13% of our laws that involve the EU because we agreed to that as part of joining. Do you actually care one way or the other about DST, or do you just hate it because the EU said it? If you want to get on a high horse, maybe look at article 11 and 13 which could cause real issues for internet freedoms. Thankfully they at least seem to have scr@pped the memes part of it, not that this board would be too affected... I've seen you post this 13% figure a couple of times lately. Why are you posting discredited figures to support your arguments? I would say fair, but discredited is a bit strong. Certainly it's the lower end of the estimates (it's the one from the House of Commons Library regarding Acts and Statutory instruments) but " discredited" implies there's been a definitive count which would be impossible because of the differing methodologies and definitions. The High value (65% or something) was one that included anything with even a reference to an EU law which is clearly over-egging it. The point of the statement remains; Whatever the number is, they exist because of a choice we made to join and choices made by our Eu representatives. I get really tired of the "why should a french MEP decide my banana shape" statements, especially three years on. The same applies to UK laws, which are decided on by potentially every MP in the house of which you only got to vote for one, but no one says "why should an MP from Cornwall be able to tell me that i can't fly a drone over an airport?". It only seems to matter because they're "EU" people, not "UK" people, and it stinks of nationalism. That and the fact that no one can ever name any of these laws they are so against. There are plenty i disagree with, but i feel on balance, they're a price worth paying for the benefits of membership. I don't care that only a fraction of the EP is UK MEPs, it's not like they're so wildly different that they're trying to enact weird laws British people would never agree to. "UK outvoted in "Right to eat UK children" law passed by EU bureaucrats". Do people really object that strongly to a 1600W limit on vacuum cleaners?
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Drew
Midland League Division One
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Post by Drew on Mar 29, 2019 21:46:49 GMT 1
It's more the issue of laws that the UK parliament cannot pass as a result of EU membership.
It's not the job of 'joe public' on social media to suggest which laws they don't like or would like to be able to pass when we leave the EU. That is for policy makers in Govt. departments who will know day to day how membership of the EU restricts law making.
The point is choice. Once we leave the EU we will have the choice to divert from EU law and more choice is never a bad thing.
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Post by shrewinjapan on Mar 30, 2019 10:36:31 GMT 1
bloody europeans, bothering to exercise their democratic rights whilst we choose to naval gaze in sublime ignorance, but then blame the europeans for ignoring us and being undemocratic when we realise actually its been our own fault all along. Splitters!!! back of the que sonny gotta teach the kids about lgbg,t gender discrimination,religion related matters and then possibly teach them something that might help them in life later. English and English history last no doubt. Then your EU or as I like, Elite Union. What a mad world You seem to have skipped a few of your English classes
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Post by shrewinjapan on Mar 30, 2019 10:46:15 GMT 1
It's more the issue of laws that the UK parliament cannot pass as a result of EU membership. It's not the job of 'joe public' on social media to suggest which laws they don't like or would like to be able to pass when we leave the EU. That is for policy makers in Govt. departments who will know day to day how membership of the EU restricts law making. The point is choice. Once we leave the EU we will have the choice to divert from EU law and more choice is never a bad thing. So you can't tell us a single law that you don't like or a single law we have been unable to pass because of EU membership, but your argument is that we should leave to have more choice about laws we do or don't pass. OK, got it.
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Post by venceremos on Mar 30, 2019 10:59:27 GMT 1
Having a say over the 13% of our laws that involve the EU because we agreed to that as part of joining. Do you actually care one way or the other about DST, or do you just hate it because the EU said it? If you want to get on a high horse, maybe look at article 11 and 13 which could cause real issues for internet freedoms. Thankfully they at least seem to have scr@pped the memes part of it, not that this board would be too affected... I've seen you post this 13% figure a couple of times lately. Why are you posting discredited figures to support your arguments? More to the point, on what basis are you asserting the figure is “discredited” and then, when the poster provides a reasoned, evidence-based response, you blithely chirp up some meaningless, entirely opinion-based blather about “more choice”, as if our future can lie in some weird pick-and-mix legislative supermarket? By all means criticise but it takes some brass neck to deny the validity of quoted research whilst offering no evidence for doing so - just the sort of mindless opinionating that’s driven this country into its current mess.
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Drew
Midland League Division One
Posts: 416
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Post by Drew on Mar 30, 2019 11:08:23 GMT 1
It's more the issue of laws that the UK parliament cannot pass as a result of EU membership. It's not the job of 'joe public' on social media to suggest which laws they don't like or would like to be able to pass when we leave the EU. That is for policy makers in Govt. departments who will know day to day how membership of the EU restricts law making. The point is choice. Once we leave the EU we will have the choice to divert from EU law and more choice is never a bad thing. So you can't tell us a single law that you don't like or a single law we have been unable to pass because of EU membership, but your argument is that we should leave to have more choice about laws we do or don't pass. OK, got it. You don't think membership of the EU curtails law making of the UK parliament? 'Tell us a law you don't like'. Completely misses the point as explained above.
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Drew
Midland League Division One
Posts: 416
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Post by Drew on Mar 30, 2019 11:25:33 GMT 1
I've seen you post this 13% figure a couple of times lately. Why are you posting discredited figures to support your arguments? More to the point, on what basis are you asserting the figure is “discredited” and then, when the poster provides a reasoned, evidence-based response, you blithely chirp up some meaningless, entirely opinion-based blather about “more choice”, as if our future can lie in some weird pick-and-mix legislative supermarket? By all means criticise but it takes some brass neck to deny the validity of quoted research whilst offering no evidence for doing so - just the sort of mindless opinionating that’s driven this country into its current mess. Some simple research into the topic will assist you. What I wrote was fact based. It's a shame you dismiss the impact on sovereignty that the EU membership causes so readily but each to their own I suppose. I appreciate people have different priorities when it comes to voting.
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Post by venceremos on Mar 30, 2019 12:13:20 GMT 1
More to the point, on what basis are you asserting the figure is “discredited” and then, when the poster provides a reasoned, evidence-based response, you blithely chirp up some meaningless, entirely opinion-based blather about “more choice”, as if our future can lie in some weird pick-and-mix legislative supermarket? By all means criticise but it takes some brass neck to deny the validity of quoted research whilst offering no evidence for doing so - just the sort of mindless opinionating that’s driven this country into its current mess. Some simple research into the topic will assist you. What I wrote was fact based. It's a shame you dismiss the impact on sovereignty that the EU membership causes so readily but each to their own I suppose. I appreciate people have different priorities when it comes to voting. Why not summarise and source that research instead of just alluding to it? You can't expect to get away with an assertion that the quoted House of Commons Library research is untrue without presenting some evidence for your assertion. I haven't actually commented here on the question of sovereignty and EU membership, let alone dismissed anything. I've questioned your dismissal of an evidence-based argument and your seeming reluctance to provide justification for that dismissal.
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Drew
Midland League Division One
Posts: 416
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Post by Drew on Mar 30, 2019 12:42:21 GMT 1
Some simple research into the topic will assist you. What I wrote was fact based. It's a shame you dismiss the impact on sovereignty that the EU membership causes so readily but each to their own I suppose. I appreciate people have different priorities when it comes to voting. Why not summarise and source that research instead of just alluding to it? You can't expect to get away with an assertion that the quoted House of Commons Library research is untrue without presenting some evidence for your assertion. I haven't actually commented here on the question of sovereignty and EU membership, let alone dismissed anything. I've questioned your dismissal of an evidence-based argument and your seeming reluctance to provide justification for that dismissal. Yes you did. You called my post about sovereignty on a topic about sovereignty 'meaningless blather'. Very dismissive. "Full fact".org which calls itself the 'UK's independent fact checking' chariry says of the 13% claim: "13% is likely to be too low". Ie, likely wrong. The poster in question is using statistics that are 'likely' wrong to support his arguments. Ergo it is misleading. Moreover he or she knows this. Whatever the figure the equal cocern is that the UK parliament does make laws that contradict EU law. Ergo this greatly curtails its law making abilities.
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