O/T NWRR wins Government Funding Bid - £85m

[Dancin]

In other news in Shropshire apart from Wolves Tickets

[HeathFarmShrew]

So my begging letter to The Right Honourable Chris Grayling a few weeks ago worked

For me, living in the North of Shrewsbury this cannot come soon enough.

[Dancin]

Jan 22, 2019 12:46:44 GMT 1 HeathFarmShrew said:

So my begging letter to The Right Honourable Chris Grayling a few weeks ago worked

For me, living in the North of Shrewsbury this cannot come soon enough.

Snap living on the West Side this will greatly reduce my travelling to get to the East or North side of town.

[bobbyc]

I'm in two minds about this. Yes you could say the ring road needs to be completed, and yes there are delays in town along smithfield road (still nothing compared with the kind of traffic you get in cities) but it will be a big shame for everyone living nearby. Currently the river around that part of town is beautifully tranquil and it will now be ruined for ever by having a noisy road ploughed all the way across.

And you can bet your bottom dollar than within five-ten years traffic will be just as bad as it is now.

[El Huracán!!!!]

Brilliant news TBH

[ThrobsBlackHat]

Fabulous news!

[martinshrew]

Wonderful news. With near 1,000 homes going up near the ground alone plus 100s elsewhere the traffic is going to be unbearable without this road.

[northwestman]

Fair enough, but any further news re widening the A5 into a dual carriageway from a few miles outside Shrewsbury to Ruabon?

Desperately needed.

[Dancin]

Jan 22, 2019 13:25:28 GMT 1 northwestman said:

Fair enough, but any further news re widening the A5 into a dual carriageway from a few miles outside Shrewsbury to Ruabon?

Desperately needed.

That's a Highway Agency project so no idea, the NWRR was a project that Shropshire Council put forward and had to bid/put a case forward for the project to get the go ahead.

[El Huracán!!!!]

Add to the fact the HE have had budget cuts like most and now focus more on very very key projects nationally with everyone else getting piece meal improvements like we saw a few years back around Shrewsbury...

I agree its needed but dont see it happening any time soon sadly.

[venceremos]

Living in North Shropshire I dare say I might benefit, if and when it happens - the Failing Grayling/Kawczynski dream ticket hardly seems the most reliable.

I know it's different budgets and all that but I can't help thinking the money might be better invested in meaningful public transport improvements and a regeneration investment project like the Flaxmill Maltings.

I just hope there isn't too much environmental damage and increased traffic volumes, although I suspect both will inevitably follow.

[martinshrew]

Jan 22, 2019 15:40:07 GMT 1 venceremos said:

Living in North Shropshire I dare say I might benefit, if and when it happens - the Failing Grayling/Kawczynski dream ticket hardly seems the most reliable.

I know it's different budgets and all that but I can't help thinking the money might be better invested in meaningful public transport improvements and a regeneration investment project like the Flaxmill Maltings.

I just hope there isn't too much environmental damage and increased traffic volumes, although I suspect both will inevitably follow.

The majority of Shropshire is green. If they're throwing up 1,000's of houses then inevitably roads will need to be built. The north west relief road is a minimum of 5 years overdue on current traffic levels, if not more.

[El Huracán!!!!]

Jan 22, 2019 15:40:07 GMT 1 venceremos said:

Living in North Shropshire I dare say I might benefit, if and when it happens - the Failing Grayling/Kawczynski dream ticket hardly seems the most reliable.

I know it's different budgets and all that but I can't help thinking the money might be better invested in meaningful public transport improvements and a regeneration investment project like the Flaxmill Maltings.

I just hope there isn't too much environmental damage and increased traffic volumes, although I suspect both will inevitably follow.

Roads by themselves dont increase traffic, they just move it from elsewhere in a project like this. Some places will see a slight increase you suspect at either ends, but the great good to the rest of the town is the pay off. No scheme is perfect for everyone, but more strategically this is needed for the long term future of the town as has been clear for some time. 

[mattmw]

Based on Chris Graylings past record I’d want 100% cast iron guarantees this money is secured before getting too excited about the road actually happening. He may have mistaken Shrewsbury for Salisbury

Generally think the communities on or near the route support the north west relief road, and whist it will impact on the environment the route isn’t generally one that’s too controversial locally. Big question will be whether the funding survives the brexit fall out, as it’s exactly this type of funding which is at high risk of being cut if government budgets feel the pinch

[HeathFarmShrew]

Jan 22, 2019 15:57:36 GMT 1 mattmw said:

Based on Chris Graylings past record I’d want 100% cast iron guarantees this money is secured before getting too excited about the road actually happening. He may have mistaken Shrewsbury for Salisbury

Generally think the communities on or near the route support the north west relief road, and whist it will impact on the environment the route isn’t generally one that’s too controversial locally. Big question will be whether the funding survives the brexit fall out, as it’s exactly this type of funding which is at high risk of being cut if government budgets feel the pinch

A very reasoned response, however, Grayling knew that it was "our" MP and called him into his office for a meeting about it so my guess (and I know things can change) is that this is going to finally happen. I live literally 2 minutes from the Battlefield end of the proposed road and for me this is really welcomed. Add to that the possibility of reduced traffic across town, Smithfield Road in particular can only be a good thing

[venceremos]

Jan 22, 2019 15:56:11 GMT 1 El Huracán!!!! said:

Jan 22, 2019 15:40:07 GMT 1 venceremos said:

Living in North Shropshire I dare say I might benefit, if and when it happens - the Failing Grayling/Kawczynski dream ticket hardly seems the most reliable.

I know it's different budgets and all that but I can't help thinking the money might be better invested in meaningful public transport improvements and a regeneration investment project like the Flaxmill Maltings.

I just hope there isn't too much environmental damage and increased traffic volumes, although I suspect both will inevitably follow.

Roads by themselves dont increase traffic, they just move it from elsewhere in a project like this. Some places will see a slight increase you suspect at either ends, but the great good to the rest of the town is the pay off. No scheme is perfect for everyone, but more strategically this is needed for the long term future of the town as has been clear for some time. 

I don't doubt there are benefits, I just think there are also disadvantages and opportunity costs.  If Shrewsbury is to grow as martinshrew says, then transport will certainly have to improve - but public transport and sustainable local transport (ie walking and cycling) should be given a higher priority in my opinion. 

I read recently of a report from (I think) a government department criticising our housing policies for creating transport ghettos where a car was needed to access any facilities and highlighting that estates shouldn't continue to be built on the assumption that everyone will have to drive to wherever they're going.

I question your assertion that roads don't increase traffic.  Surely that depends whether you're looking at the new road itself and the area around it or at a much larger area.  New roads generate "induced traffic" as people take advantage of the new facility by making more trips than they would otherwise have done and by travelling longer distances because of the time they perceive themselves to have saved.

Road traffic continues to increase and average speeds reduce, year on year.  The Transport department reported that motorway traffic increased by 44% in the 20 years to 2016, rural roads by 23% and minor urban roads by 6% - traffic on urban A roads actually fell by a tiny margin.

I accept some new roads might be needed - and this might be one, it's not something I've studied - but there are limits to how many roads we can keep building or expanding to facilitate extra traffic, particularly as that evidently doesn't provide a long-term solution.

[El Huracán!!!!]

I recently worked on Llangefni Relief Road on Anglsey which was built last summer, so have some experience with sort of thing (I was actually the first person to draw the line of that road on a plan a few years back and it was built almost on that alignment... which is crazy, and also over a undiscovered Roman site!) - Also this was a success and really helped the town center (and provided access to some development plots which was the main function of this road to be fair).

Yes it will induce some traffic, but in general (very general) it all sort of balances across the wider Shrewsbury networt. I did have the report from years back looking at what the impacts of the road would be and places like Cotton Hill, the other side of the loop road where its the A49 and some of the other cross town routes such as Telford Way all saw decreases in traffic as well as the roads directly though the TC.

In this day and age its takes a LOT to get any kind of new road built, its not all the common and the hoops and justification you need in 2018/19 is way way more than was needed in times gone buy, detailed environmental study, archaeology, flood risk assessments, structure assessments, need assessments, local impact assessments, economic assessments and I could go on and on and on (that's before looking at how every animal with a huge radius would be effected)

Traffic however is always continually rising as pointed out but not though new road construction, purely by the NEED to own a car in this country. Bus and Rail travel has its issues, public transport issues around walking and cycling can be difficult in our constrained traditional town centers. To do that most of the time you need road space, and its not space we can afford really in our town in the constrained locations.

BUT the relief road taking traffic out of town also presents the council with an even better opportunity to promote and improve the sustainable routes into and out of town as part of the "Big Plan" announced some months back. Take car parks to the fringes of the town center, reduce through traffic, give more space to peds and cycling and swifter bus routes. Sustainable schemes always work better when you can reduce the traffic so the road might actually enable MORE to be done in the areas you discussed.

For the record for impartiality, i dont and have never worked for Shropshire Council or Highways England, and have never worked on this project either. But work as a transport planning consultant in a private company in Salop so find the link road really interesting. More so as I grew up as a kid in Montford Bridge when the bypass was built and think that had a big part in me ending up what I do now (working on large road/rail/air infrastructure projects)

For me the best way to sort out a lot of these issues is remote working and reducing the need to travel (online shopping a good example) - In to the future this is likely to be the major driver to reducing dependence on cars and need to travel rather than improvements to bus and rail which will always still have cost attached which is some times higher than deliveries AND more of a inconvenience, but that has knock on effects on the economy and viability of towns and town centers. Its an interesting next few years in that regard I think.....

[bobbyc]

I will eat my hat if through traffic along smithfield road is restricted once the NWRR is built. That is what should happen, of course, and I really hope it does, but I sincerely doubt it given the track record of this council.

Therefore all the NWRR will do is induce more people on the fringes of the town centre to jump in their car instead of walk/cycle/bus, because the longer range through traffic will move to the NWRR so their journey might be marginally quicker.

Therefore: traffic overall will increase.

The ONLY way to make people change their obsession with the car, and hence to reduce traffic, is to make it more difficult to drive places. Building more roads never helps in the long term.

[venceremos]

Jan 22, 2019 16:54:49 GMT 1 El Huracán!!!! said:

I recently worked on Llangefni Relief Road on Anglsey which was built last summer, so have some experience with sort of thing (I was actually the first person to draw the line of that road on a plan a few years back and it was built almost on that alignment... which is crazy, and also over a undiscovered Roman site!) - Also this was a success and really helped the town center (and provided access to some development plots which was the main function of this road to be fair).

Yes it will induce some traffic, but in general (very general) it all sort of balances across the wider Shrewsbury networt. I did have the report from years back looking at what the impacts of the road would be and places like Cotton Hill, the other side of the loop road where its the A49 and some of the other cross town routes such as Telford Way all saw decreases in traffic as well as the roads directly though the TC.

In this day and age its takes a LOT to get any kind of new road built, its not all the common and the hoops and justification you need in 2018/19 is way way more than was needed in times gone buy, detailed environmental study, archaeology, flood risk assessments, structure assessments, need assessments, local impact assessments, economic assessments and I could go on and on and on (that's before looking at how every animal with a huge radius would be effected)

Traffic however is always continually rising as pointed out but not though new road construction, purely by the NEED to own a car in this country. Bus and Rail travel has its issues, public transport issues around walking and cycling can be difficult in our constrained traditional town centers. To do that most of the time you need road space, and its not space we can afford really in our town in the constrained locations.

BUT the relief road taking traffic out of town also presents the council with an even better opportunity to promote and improve the sustainable routes into and out of town as part of the "Big Plan" announced some months back. Take car parks to the fringes of the town center, reduce through traffic, give more space to peds and cycling and swifter bus routes. Sustainable schemes always work better when you can reduce the traffic so the road might actually enable MORE to be done in the areas you discussed.

For the record for impartiality, i dont and have never worked for Shropshire Council or Highways England, and have never worked on this project either. But work as a transport planning consultant in a private company in Salop so find the link road really interesting. More so as I grew up as a kid in Montford Bridge when the bypass was built and think that had a big part in me ending up what I do now (working on large road/rail/air infrastructure projects)

For me the best way to sort out a lot of these issues is remote working and reducing the need to travel (online shopping a good example) - In to the future this is likely to be the major driver to reducing dependence on cars and need to travel rather than improvements to bus and rail which will always still have cost attached which is some times higher than deliveries AND more of a inconvenience, but that has knock on effects on the economy and viability of towns and town centers. Its an interesting next few years in that regard I think.....

Interesting comments and I appreciate this is your professional area rather than mine. 

I've read that the effects of induced traffic tend to be underestimated by the DfT and Highways Agency, so that the predicted benefits of a new road are exaggerated.

You make a good point that a new road like this might create sustainable opportunities in the urban environment - on the other hand it might encourage people to find "better"/faster ways into town in their cars and vans.  I wish more investment was made in edge of town, "parkway"-type railway stations.  When I travel to Birmingham a couple of times a week, it takes so long to get into town, park and walk to the station before I begin the journey that I tend to drive all the way instead.  Ideally, every substantial town would have two stations - one in the centre and one on the edge of town by a main road. 

I agree with you on remote working but - and it's a huge "but" - that strays into other areas, like mental health and social inclusion.  There's an epidemic of loneliness in modern societies and it causes a lot of misery and health problems.  We shouldn't be encouraging isolation - which is another reason to consider that the rampant growth of online shopping isn't such a good thing.  I'd far rather have busy public transport and pedestrian areas than ghost towns and people doing everything "from the comfort of their armchairs".

[staffordshrew]

Is there an election on the way?

[davycrockett]

Jan 22, 2019 18:32:06 GMT 1 staffordshrew said:

Is there an election on the way?

Not yet but perhaps a sweetner  for MPs who voted against May’s deal?

[staffordshrew]

Jan 22, 2019 18:44:26 GMT 1 davycrockett said:

Jan 22, 2019 18:32:06 GMT 1 staffordshrew said:

Is there an election on the way?

Not yet but perhaps a sweetner  for MPs who voted against May’s deal?

There's the MEP's I suppose?  Can't see this making any difference though. Radio 4 advertising a comedy with the line "If you can name your MEP then you are your MEP" at the moment.

[MySTFC]

I assume that the alleged benefits stated will materialise and will help the town which is good for the vast majoity and makes sense for the town - just wish the route wasn't so close to the houses at Shelton Lane (70m away)where it crosses the river. Apparently if it moves further away from the houses it might encroach of Severn Trent's pumping station.

Just hope, if Mr Grayling does honour this pledge, the Council show some consideration for the smaller individuals enroute when the finer detail is discussed - those who don't have the clout of a big utility in getting their voices heard.

[frankwellshrews]

I'm pleased this is happening. I don't think anybody who lives on the North or West sides of town would disagree that this is needed. As it stands, if you're trying to get to A and E from north of Shrewsbury at rush hour your choices are B roads through Leaton, Forton Heath etc, a 10 mile round trip on the existing bypass or battling through grid lock in town. I have to go from Wem to Pontesbury in the morning to drop my son off at grandparents and can confirm it's a lottery to be honest at the minute, even the back roads, whilst generally slow but at least reliable, can be clogged with tractors etc and the bypass can be just as bad as the town (particularly the single lane bit around Sundorne). Inner ring road too for that matter.

So I'm sold on the road for that reason mainly. As a denizen of the Frankwell/Copthorne area though who grew up playing down by the river, what concerns me is that this will lead to a downgrading and eventual infill of that "green corridor" which is a wonderful resource to have so close to the town and a real differentiator for Shrewsbury amongst other similar size towns/small cities.

One thing I am convinced of though is that the traffic problems in the town are bad for the economy. The parking situation tends to grab the headlines but I'm fairly convinced that the traffic also keeps people out.

I agree with others who say they'd like to see other transport options being considered though. I really like the idea that's been mooted of train stations at Battlefield and the football ground but accept that the cost of this is probably prohibitive.

I wonder if the relief road will make park and ride more viable for some though? Or park and cycle, particularly in conjunction with some kind of traffic calming measures in the town centre might work?

[zenfootball2]

there will always be pros and cons to these kind of project , i would imagine that within a short period of time that beyond what has already been submitted that a combination of industrial estates and housing will fill up all the green areas up to relief road. so i do hope this time round the council are better prepared to ensure adequate infrastructure is provided, schools / medical centres as the population of shrewsbury continues to grow.

[Deleted]

Jan 22, 2019 16:54:49 GMT 1 El Huracán!!!! said:

I recently worked on Llangefni Relief Road on Anglsey which was built last summer, so have some experience with sort of thing (I was actually the first person to draw the line of that road on a plan a few years back and it was built almost on that alignment... which is crazy, and also over a undiscovered Roman site!) - Also this was a success and really helped the town center (and provided access to some development plots which was the main function of this road to be fair).

Yes it will induce some traffic, but in general (very general) it all sort of balances across the wider Shrewsbury networt. I did have the report from years back looking at what the impacts of the road would be and places like Cotton Hill, the other side of the loop road where its the A49 and some of the other cross town routes such as Telford Way all saw decreases in traffic as well as the roads directly though the TC.

In this day and age its takes a LOT to get any kind of new road built, its not all the common and the hoops and justification you need in 2018/19 is way way more than was needed in times gone buy, detailed environmental study, archaeology, flood risk assessments, structure assessments, need assessments, local impact assessments, economic assessments and I could go on and on and on (that's before looking at how every animal with a huge radius would be effected)

Traffic however is always continually rising as pointed out but not though new road construction, purely by the NEED to own a car in this country. Bus and Rail travel has its issues, public transport issues around walking and cycling can be difficult in our constrained traditional town centers. To do that most of the time you need road space, and its not space we can afford really in our town in the constrained locations.

BUT the relief road taking traffic out of town also presents the council with an even better opportunity to promote and improve the sustainable routes into and out of town as part of the "Big Plan" announced some months back. Take car parks to the fringes of the town center, reduce through traffic, give more space to peds and cycling and swifter bus routes. Sustainable schemes always work better when you can reduce the traffic so the road might actually enable MORE to be done in the areas you discussed.

For the record for impartiality, i dont and have never worked for Shropshire Council or Highways England, and have never worked on this project either. But work as a transport planning consultant in a private company in Salop so find the link road really interesting. More so as I grew up as a kid in Montford Bridge when the bypass was built and think that had a big part in me ending up what I do now (working on large road/rail/air infrastructure projects)

For me the best way to sort out a lot of these issues is remote working and reducing the need to travel (online shopping a good example) - In to the future this is likely to be the major driver to reducing dependence on cars and need to travel rather than improvements to bus and rail which will always still have cost attached which is some times higher than deliveries AND more of a inconvenience, but that has knock on effects on the economy and viability of towns and town centers. Its an interesting next few years in that regard I think.....

Used to live in Llangefni, I didn't realise there was a problem with traffic in the town, but it has been a good few years. Even so I wouldn't have thought a town with a population of less than 6,000 (about the same as Bayston Hill, 5,116 in Llangefni v 5,079 B.H. in 2001 census) would need a relief road.

My main gripe with your post is the last paragraph. Remote working might be fine for white collar workers, but not all of us are and although there may be fewer people going to work at peak times through remote working, there will also be an increase in remote workers dropping their kids off at school every bloody morning. You also mention online shopping as a good example. A huge increase in vans parking anywhere and everywhere is hardly a good thing. People having to work 12+ hours, 7 days a week to make a living working for Yodel, etc is hardly a good thing. People (myself included) can't be bothered to pop into Shrewsbury, Wellington, Telford Centre, etc when we can get everything delivered the next or even the same day. This has a detrimental effect on these places, have you been to Shrewsbury town centre on a week day recently? The town centre is dying on its ar5e and you should see Wellington, pawn shops, charity shops, bookies, takeaways and I think there are one or two banks left too. If politicians on all sides can't work together and get viable public transport policies, realistic parking fee structures and reduced fees for having a physical shop the relief road will be bypassing a ghost town.

[Dancin]

Hopefully this is one project that doesn't get pulled?

[Pilch]

Jul 29, 2024 9:30:50 GMT 1 Dancin said:

Hopefully this is one project that doesn't get pulled?

Don't be silly , they won't s**t on a constituency that has a new labour mp

Not checked but I bet Stonehenge isn't labour

[Deleted]

I hope that Rachel Reeves has the bottle to name the areas where the last Tory government hid the truth from us.
As the electorate we have the right to know

[Deleted]

Jul 29, 2024 10:28:54 GMT 1 Pilch said:

Jul 29, 2024 9:30:50 GMT 1 Dancin said:

Hopefully this is one project that doesn't get pulled?

Don't be silly , they won't s**t on a constituency that has a new labour mp

Not checked but I bet Stonehenge isn't labour

I would agree with that. Wasn't that the whole idea of the Tories Levelling Up policy?😁