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Post by pughywasfree on Jan 7, 2019 18:38:32 GMT 1
I'm not discussing it because it doesn't interest me. FYI I never joined in with this chant. What I am discussing is your pethetic obsession with the singers. Every time someone posts something positive about our vocal support you're nowhere to be seen. As soon as you think you can have a dig you're there like a fly to s**t. It's quite sad tbf. Do you think the IRA chants were acceptable? I couldn't care less. Words don't offend me.
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Post by stfc1969 on Jan 7, 2019 18:43:39 GMT 1
Do you think the IRA chants were acceptable? I couldn't care less. Words don't offend me. As long as they're not directed at you or one of your own?
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Post by WATR on Jan 7, 2019 18:46:52 GMT 1
McClean grew up on an estate alongside people whose innocent loved ones were murdered by British soldiers, so the notion that he should "respect" Britain is ludicrous. Time for a lot of people to pack the sectarian garbage in, and educate themselves. This would be a good start: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)
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Post by pughywasfree on Jan 7, 2019 18:54:28 GMT 1
I couldn't care less. Words don't offend me. As long as they're not directed at you or one of your own? We get called sheep shaggers amongst other things, I chose to not get offended by people I don't know chanting stuff to get a reaction. Everyone is too quick to get offended!
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Post by venceremos on Jan 7, 2019 19:10:41 GMT 1
And Irish republicans died fighting for what they regard as their country. Whether or not you like what he does, he's not being gratuitously offensive. ....from what I recall of WW1 history, didn't Irish Republicans ( ie members of the fledgling IRA)agree to fight for the British in return for independence after the war was over? Wasn't the fact that we went back on that agreement the prime reason for the Irish rebellions? Therefore McCLean is showing no respect to his fellow Republicans who fought and died for Britain in WW1 I think the promise was of home rule, not independence - ie Ireland would have remained part of the UK. This was after home rule bills had been blocked several times over many years. The promise was suspended when the Great War broke out. The Irish Republican Brotherhood wanted complete independence and sought to exploit Britain's involvement in European war, hence the Easter Rising of 1916. It's too simplistic to say McClean is disrespectful to the Irish dead of WW1 because Irish republicans fought British troops in Dublin in 1916 and the leaders of the rebellion were quickly (and I'd say unwisely) executed by the British, creating a surge of support for what had previously been a small minority movement. My wife's Irish grandfather served as a doctor in the British Army in WW1, his niece was at one time engaged to Eamon de Valera's son, de Valera at one point being sentenced to death by the British. As I said, it's complicated.
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Post by venceremos on Jan 7, 2019 19:13:25 GMT 1
As long as they're not directed at you or one of your own? We get called sheep shaggers amongst other things, I chose to not get offended by people I don't know chanting stuff to get a reaction. Everyone is too quick to get offended! Why would you be offended by that though? Have you, your family or anyone you know supported a sheepshaggers' republican movement? Were any of them killed, injured or interned in doing so? It's hardly the same thing.
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Post by tvor on Jan 7, 2019 19:28:30 GMT 1
And Irish republicans died fighting for what they regard as their country. Whether or not you like what he does, he's not being gratuitously offensive. ....from what I recall of WW1 history, didn't Irish Republicans ( ie members of the fledgling IRA)agree to fight for the British in return for independence after the war was over? Wasn't the fact that we went back on that agreement the prime reason for the Irish rebellions? Therefore McCLean is showing no respect to his fellow Republicans who fought and died for Britain in WW1 At the outbreak of WW1 people in what is now the Irish Republic were largely loyal to the crown and signed up in large numbers to fight in that war. I think you may be thinking of the home rule bill. Similarly to today there was no majority in the house of commons in the lead up to WW1. The Irish Parliamentary Party pledged to back the Liberal party into power if the home rule bill was introduced which after several rejections by the Lords it eventually was passed, but it was then postponed after the outbreak of WW1. The Home Rule bill gave self-government to Ireland whilst they remained within the UK. The Ulster Unionists reacted very strongly against this with huge numbers signing a covenant to oppose it and they began to arm themselves and march in readiness to fight, if necessary, against the introduction of home rule in Ireland. The groups formed at this stage included the UVF who were involved in the troubles in Northern Ireland later in the century. WW1, the Easter Rising of 1916 and the subsequent Irish War of Independence changed everything with regard to this so it was never revisited. People in Ireland at the time of the Easter Rising in 1916 were still very largely loyal to the crown. When the leaders of the rising were captured and marched through Dublin they were treated very badly by Dublin residents. It was only the subsequent executions of the leaders in such large numbers that turned Irish opinion against the British to the extent that during the War of Independence that followed soon after there was large scale support for an Irish Republic. Finally, with regard to comments about James McClean and how he behaves in someone else's country. James McClean was born in Derry City and is a British citizen.
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Post by pughywasfree on Jan 7, 2019 20:21:37 GMT 1
We get called sheep shaggers amongst other things, I chose to not get offended by people I don't know chanting stuff to get a reaction. Everyone is too quick to get offended! Why would you be offended by that though? Have you, your family or anyone you know supported a sheepshaggers' republican movement? Were any of them killed, injured or interned in doing so? It's hardly the same thing. Abuse is abuse, can't have double standards. It's just like calling someone stupid is just as bad as calling someone a stupid woman.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2019 20:37:12 GMT 1
Why would you be offended by that though? Have you, your family or anyone you know supported a sheepshaggers' republican movement? Were any of them killed, injured or interned in doing so? It's hardly the same thing. Abuse is abuse, can't have double standards. It's just like calling someone stupid is just as bad as calling someone a stupid woman. Unless of course it’s factual!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2019 20:42:41 GMT 1
I would imagine that MaClean isn't too interested in events over 100 years ago.
I would imagine he's more interested in recent, living history and the sort of people who could do him and his family serious harm.
Let's put ourselves in his shoes and think about his own family history.
And, while we're on the subject. The main reason my family migrated to England after WW1 is because my great-grandfather was not welcome in County Cork after serving in the Army. In fact he had to leave PDQ with just the shirt on his back. Or be killed by Republicans. The fact is post-1916, attitudes changed toward the war effort and those Irish Catholics that served.
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Post by gtismygod on Jan 7, 2019 20:49:39 GMT 1
McClean grew up on an estate alongside people whose innocent loved ones were murdered by British soldiers, so the notion that he should "respect" Britain is ludicrous. Time for a lot of people to pack the sectarian garbage in, and educate themselves. This would be a good start: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)Which is absolute fine. He’s entitled to his own opinion. But don’t then go and move to Britain to earn a living. He’s more than happy to earn his wage, pay his taxes and use public services isn’t he? Hypocrisy of the highest order.
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Post by gtismygod on Jan 7, 2019 20:51:19 GMT 1
I'm not discussing it because it doesn't interest me. FYI I never joined in with this chant. What I am discussing is your pethetic obsession with the singers. Every time someone posts something positive about our vocal support you're nowhere to be seen. As soon as you think you can have a dig you're there like a fly to s**t. It's quite sad tbf. Do you think the IRA chants were acceptable? Didn’t hear the song but I assume it is anti-IRA’? If so, what is unacceptable about that?
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Post by WATR on Jan 7, 2019 21:49:46 GMT 1
McClean grew up on an estate alongside people whose innocent loved ones were murdered by British soldiers, so the notion that he should "respect" Britain is ludicrous. Time for a lot of people to pack the sectarian garbage in, and educate themselves. This would be a good start: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)Which is absolute fine. He’s entitled to his own opinion. But don’t then go and move to Britain to earn a living. He’s more than happy to earn his wage, pay his taxes and use public services isn’t he? Hypocrisy of the highest order. Are you genuinely that dense? He was born in Derry, which is part of Britain. Which in itself is kinda the nub of the issue here.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2019 22:03:46 GMT 1
Which is absolute fine. He’s entitled to his own opinion. But don’t then go and move to Britain to earn a living. He’s more than happy to earn his wage, pay his taxes and use public services isn’t he? Hypocrisy of the highest order. Are you genuinely that dense? He was born in Derry, which is part of Britain. Which in itself is kinda the nub of the issue here. Yeah, this a point missed by a few on here it seems.
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Post by tvor on Jan 7, 2019 22:08:43 GMT 1
Indeed, as I also pointed out earlier.
Sadly, the level of ignorance of British history with regard to Ireland and the degree to which Britain has, usually very negatively, affected Ireland over many centuries, given they are our nearest neighbour, never ceases to amaze.
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Post by gainsparkshrew on Jan 7, 2019 22:25:31 GMT 1
Indeed, as I also pointed out earlier. Sadly, the level of ignorance of British history with regard to Ireland and the degree to which Britain has, usually very negatively, affected Ireland over many centuries, given they are our nearest neighbour, never ceases to amaze. Sadly the truth about our colonial history, Days of Empire etc, is deliberately white washed and misrepresented within the education system. We are, and were, taught that the British were always the good guys. It's only when some of us older that we decide to read and research into what we were taught and quickly realize that we British were a pretty despotic bunch. The way that we treated the Irish was particularly harsh and cruel
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2019 22:32:16 GMT 1
Which is absolute fine. He’s entitled to his own opinion. But don’t then go and move to Britain to earn a living. He’s more than happy to earn his wage, pay his taxes and use public services isn’t he? Hypocrisy of the highest order. Are you genuinely that dense? He was born in Derry, which is part of Britain. Which in itself is kinda the nub of the issue here. Bloody British coming over here and earning a living and earning a wage and paying taxes and using public services.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2019 22:44:32 GMT 1
Indeed, as I also pointed out earlier. Sadly, the level of ignorance of British history with regard to Ireland and the degree to which Britain has, usually very negatively, affected Ireland over many centuries, given they are our nearest neighbour, never ceases to amaze. Sadly the truth about our colonial history, Days of Empire etc, is deliberately white washed and misrepresented within the education system. Not really sure I agree with this. I agree maybe back in the day (70/80s for me), but today GCSE History encourages critique of Empire and British history generally. I have sat in on and helped teach GCSE history that clearly does this and encourages students to look at all aspects and effects of Empire on indigenous people and their cultures. This critique goes right to degree level of course.
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Post by jamo on Jan 7, 2019 22:52:19 GMT 1
Pughywasfree eh? Guess you can’t educate pork
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Post by tvor on Jan 7, 2019 22:59:20 GMT 1
Sadly the truth about our colonial history, Days of Empire etc, is deliberately white washed and misrepresented within the education system. Not really sure I agree with this. I agree maybe back in the day (70/80s for me), but today GCSE History encourages critique of Empire and British history generally. I have sat in on and helped teach GCSE history that clearly does this and encourages students to look at all aspects and effects of Empire on indigenous people and their cultures. This critique goes right to degree level of course. That is good to hear, thanks.
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Post by venceremos on Jan 7, 2019 23:15:49 GMT 1
Why would you be offended by that though? Have you, your family or anyone you know supported a sheepshaggers' republican movement? Were any of them killed, injured or interned in doing so? It's hardly the same thing. Abuse is abuse, can't have double standards. It's just like calling someone stupid is just as bad as calling someone a stupid woman. It’s not double standards to recognise there’s a world of difference between infantile, meaningless name calling that would struggle to raise a giggle in the playground and inflammatory, sectarian chanting around a hypersensitive topic that’s caused death, suffering and loss to tens of thousands across many generations.
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Post by pughywasfree on Jan 7, 2019 23:22:43 GMT 1
Pughywasfree eh? Guess you can’t educate pork I'm definitely no gammon. My issue is with pilch's vendetta. Thanks for the input though, much appreciated.
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Post by gtismygod on Jan 7, 2019 23:36:29 GMT 1
Which is absolute fine. He’s entitled to his own opinion. But don’t then go and move to Britain to earn a living. He’s more than happy to earn his wage, pay his taxes and use public services isn’t he? Hypocrisy of the highest order. Are you genuinely that dense? He was born in Derry, which is part of Britain. Which in itself is kinda the nub of the issue here. You know he plays for the Republic of Ireland and considers himself Irish don’t you? Having refused a call up from Northern Ireland. Regardless of which side of the Irish border he was born on, he’s Irish.
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Post by venceremos on Jan 7, 2019 23:53:03 GMT 1
Are you genuinely that dense? He was born in Derry, which is part of Britain. Which in itself is kinda the nub of the issue here. You know he plays for the Republic of Ireland and considers himself Irish don’t you? Having refused a call up from Northern Ireland. Regardless of which side of the Irish border he was born on, he’s Irish. Hilarious. You recognise his argument whilst saying he shouldn’t be allowed to make it.
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Post by jamo on Jan 7, 2019 23:59:54 GMT 1
I have no idea about any vandetta.
I’m basing my views on your contributions to this thread- which by some distance would demonstrate a quite unrivalled confirmation of ‘ uneducated caveman’ speak. Which was the original title of this thread.
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Post by Pilch on Jan 8, 2019 0:15:17 GMT 1
Pughywasfree eh? Guess you can’t educate pork I'm definitely no gammon. My issue is with pilch's vendetta. Thanks for the input though, much appreciated. pughy, I dont have any vendetta the only other time I've moaned this season , it was about idiots in block 1. ( town youth side acting like idiots ) the vendetta is totally you against me, because if I moan about block 19 which in this case needed mentioning as it was shameful what they did, you turn up and throw abuse at me for daring to have a say just like you always do, like the sectarian singing had anything to do with me , if it also had nothing to do with you then why have you had a go at me ? I dont understand I have you down as the kind of guy who could have a bit of influence on block 19 ffs use it, you know right from wrong even if they dont dont let them embarrass our club its been a slow news week this week, the stabbing on the train has taken the front story every day and yet this happens all the time we all saw how those Chelsea fans were singled out with sterling had a camera been pointing your way on saturday we could have all been cringing for the last few days
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Jan 8, 2019 0:26:44 GMT 1
I admire McLean for being forthright and clear with his opinions.
He also embodies the very freedom of expression we fought for in the wars being commemorated.
Distasteful as it is for a British person to consider, it is also both his right and to our credit that it happens.
Freedom can't only be freedom when we agree with it or like it.
He comes over to this country to earn a wage because the wages are good. We're a large and successful country partly because of the subjugation of nations like Ireland. Of course we've got the rule of law, world class education and we pioneered the industrial revolution. But we used that advantage for economic exploitation on a worldwide scale, including in Ireland.
So even if you don't like what he stands for you should be the first to defend his right to believe it.
Singing anthems of the far right in response is as self defeating as dropping a hand grenade in your own underpants.
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Post by shrewswolf on Jan 8, 2019 1:12:40 GMT 1
Long live James McClean! The great, the like of which we will never see again, warrior of a man James McClean. Super James McClean. Using his freedoms to refuse to respect & remember our fallen soldiers - what a gent. Heroic James McClean.
God help us.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jan 8, 2019 7:13:04 GMT 1
Abuse is abuse, can't have double standards. It's just like calling someone stupid is just as bad as calling someone a stupid woman. It’s not double standards to recognise there’s a world of difference between infantile, meaningless name calling that would struggle to raise a giggle in the playground and inflammatory, sectarian chanting around a hypersensitive topic that’s caused death, suffering and loss to tens of thousands across many generations. So perhaps he should have been a little more wise than to turn his back to the flag and anthem of the county where he now plays his football. With it being such a hypersensitive topic as it is. Why inflame it by insulting a country and in turn many of its people. It was a stupid and disrespectful thing to do, so it's hardly surprising its met in kind. It works both ways.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jan 8, 2019 7:30:08 GMT 1
He's guaranteed to score the winner now next Tuesday isn't he...
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