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Post by northwestman on Dec 16, 2018 17:14:22 GMT 1
Form the Official Bury FC site:-
"Steve Dale is a very successful businessman and will be bringing his vast business experience to the club, as he looks to take us to the next level".
Well, good luck with that one!
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Post by northwestman on Dec 16, 2018 17:38:16 GMT 1
31 Charges satisfied, but 2 outstanding. The last one on 21st November 2018. And for how much? No sooner is 1 Charge satisfied than they take another one out. Shuffling the deck chairs? beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00053268/chargesPlus well over £5 million losses in 2016 and 2017.
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Post by staffordshrew on Dec 16, 2018 20:56:58 GMT 1
Meanwhile, back on the Bury Fans Forum, none of this seems to have been looked at by anyone. After their concerns about the number plate on the Rolls Royce, they seem to have lost interest in any further investigation into the background of Dale. They can probably look forward to supporting Bury FC (2019) or something in the future then and sharing a ground whilst theirs gets built on. Not every club has a Northwestman "Watchdog".
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Post by razzledazzle on Dec 17, 2018 1:51:55 GMT 1
As the saying goes, there's none so blind as them that won't see....
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Post by northwestman on Dec 17, 2018 11:00:09 GMT 1
Meanwhile, back on the Bury Fans Forum, none of this seems to have been looked at by anyone. After their concerns about the number plate on the Rolls Royce, they seem to have lost interest in any further investigation into the background of Dale. They can probably look forward to supporting Bury FC (2019) or something in the future then and sharing a ground whilst theirs gets built on. Not every club has a Northwestman "Watchdog". There must be some link between Day and Dale, but as yet I haven't found it. They are both in the building, hire and leasing business, and both have a questionable record at Companies House.
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Post by northwestman on Dec 17, 2018 11:33:45 GMT 1
Day's involvement in Companies is fascinating. What seems to be his main Company, Mederco Ltd, has been flirting with being struck off for over a year now and has 5 outstanding Charges. He's set up 63 Companies, only 12 of which he is still actively involved in. 7 of these have outstanding Charges. He's also folded Companies with Charges still outstanding.
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Post by staffordshrew on Dec 17, 2018 11:46:42 GMT 1
Great work by Morthwestman, but for me neither of them pass the duck test: "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck". So, anyone who has a place in their heart for Bury FC, watch out!
(The duck test doesn't apply on Stoke of course, where they are all " ducks").
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Post by northwestman on Dec 17, 2018 12:19:54 GMT 1
Great work by Morthwestman, but for me neither of them pass the duck test: "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck". So, anyone who has a place in their heart for Bury FC, watch out! (The duck test doesn't apply on Stoke of course, where they are all " ducks"). Ah, but Stoke City has Peter Coates as Chairman. He's father of Denise Coates, of Bet365, who has recently awarded herself £265 million in salary and dividends. Poor girl was only paid £218 million last year. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6419727/Meet-Stoke-mother-whos-one-worlds-highest-paid-women-terrible-price.htmlIt seems all the mega money is made online nowadays, which is no good to me (or ssshrew) as we are not I.T. savvy. www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46427910www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-6076629/Meet-new-Strictly-Come-Dancing-star-3m-YouTube.html
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Post by northwestman on Dec 18, 2018 14:33:15 GMT 1
"Bury football club announced a takeover on Tuesday, saying the owner, the Lancashire‑based property developer Stewart Day, had handed control to Steve Dale, about whom the club statement said little, beyond that he is “a very successful businessman”.
More details about Dale and his businesses are promised imminently; a club spokesperson told the Guardian that Dale had been retired in recent years because of a severe illness, from which he has been given the all clear.
“Mr Dale decided to return to business in a more philanthropic way, helping younger people and others who have lost hope,” a spokesperson said. “Having heard about Bury, he felt he could bring business acumen to the club … and resolve the problems the club has been facing.”
This was in a Guardian article of 5 days ago. As yet, we are none the wiser, except to say that as a result of the research undertaken by myself and razzledazzle, the regular activity of Mr Dale with regard to involvement in Companies in recent years doesn't really suggest retirement, though others may of course have been acting on his behalf and with his authorization.
He's still involved as the only Director of Dale Acquisitions Ltd. Nature of business - buying and selling real estate. Previous names Roscoe Park Ltd and Dale Acquisitions Ltd.
He's also the only Director of Terrapin Ltd. Previous name MK Manufacturing Ltd, but an application has recently been submitted to rename it again as MKTEP Ltd. Building Hire and Leasing Ltd's name had been changed from Terrapin Ltd in July 2012.
Assets of a Company being sold before a winding up order is made has taken place on more than one occasion.
The share capital of Empty Lemon Ltd also seems of interest. £2,600,000! This Company has been struck off once but was restored. However, on 27th November 2018, it was once again given notice for a compulsory strike off, and was finally struck off on 12th February 2019.
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Post by tvor on Dec 18, 2018 19:29:53 GMT 1
Why the near obsession with the goings on at Bury?
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Post by Exkeeper on Dec 18, 2018 19:42:26 GMT 1
Why the near obsession with the goings on at Bury? Some of us like to know how clubs that blatantly break the rules, manage to survive. One day the bottom will fall out of their world and others will follow.
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Post by staffordshrew on Dec 18, 2018 19:49:10 GMT 1
Why the near obsession with the goings on at Bury? Some of us like to know how clubs that blatantly break the rules, manage to survive. One day the bottom will fall out of their world and others will follow. It's nothing personal about Bury, it's just the terrior like mind of Nwm. If I mention that I can't recall anyone called Ramsbottom ever playing for England it will have Nwm researching for hours
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2018 19:49:56 GMT 1
Why the near obsession with the goings on at Bury? For me it's interesting to know how they are managing to keep afloat. I've close connections in one way as having lived in Oldham for over 30 odd years they were just on the doorstep to me and also my wife worked in Bury for a number of years. My work also brought me into contact with a number of Bury fans too so we certainly enjoyed a lot of banter over the years.
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Post by northwestman on Dec 18, 2018 20:23:06 GMT 1
Why the near obsession with the goings on at Bury? You'll find that in the past I have researched just as thoroughly into both Shrewsbury and Macclesfield (when Bickerton was with them). In fact, I seem to have rattled Bickerton's cage to such a degree regarding what happened at Macclesfield that I was invited by him for a chat over coffee, which I politely declined.
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Post by northwestman on Dec 18, 2018 21:12:53 GMT 1
Some of us like to know how clubs that blatantly break the rules, manage to survive. One day the bottom will fall out of their world and others will follow. It's nothing personal about Bury, it's just the terrior like mind of Nwm. If I mention that I can't recall anyone called Ramsbottom ever playing for England it will have Nwm researching for hours Nearest I can find is this:- Kieran Trippier went to school in Ramsbottom. www.burytimes.co.uk/news/14501529.premier-league-footballer-goes-back-to-his-ramsbottom-school/And he was born in Bury, which brings us back full circle!
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Post by tvor on Dec 18, 2018 21:18:08 GMT 1
Fair enough.
I just found it very odd as 1. they are not a club, as far as I recall, who we've ever had any rivalry with 2. they're not local to us, I could understand an interest in Wrexham for example and 3. they are not even in our division.
But each to their own.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2018 21:23:09 GMT 1
Fair enough. I just found it very odd as 1. they are not a club, as far as I recall, who we've ever had any rivalry with 2. they're not local to us, I could understand an interest in Wrexham for example and 3. they are not even in our division. But each to their own. They were local to me for over 30 odd years and I've made a fair few trips to watch the Town at Gigg Lane over the years. Like you say, each to their own.
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Post by staffordshrew on Dec 18, 2018 21:36:01 GMT 1
I knew that would keep you out of mischief for a while
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Post by northwestman on Dec 18, 2018 21:40:45 GMT 1
Fair enough. I just found it very odd as 1. they are not a club, as far as I recall, who we've ever had any rivalry with 2. they're not local to us, I could understand an interest in Wrexham for example and 3. they are not even in our division. But each to their own. Oh, I've researched Wrexham in some depth too. The sell out by Pryce-Griffiths to Hamilton and Guterman, the failed takeover bid by Stephanie Booth who was later to be killed in a tractor accident in 2016, the failed takeover bid involving Poole, Bickerton, Harris and Vaughan, the selling off of land for student flats by Moss and Roberts. I've looked at it all. www.wrexham.com/news/wrexham-village-purchased-by-wrexham-glyndwr-university-moss-roberts-development-sale-nets-11m-football-club-gets-0-154993.html
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Post by staffordshrew on Dec 18, 2018 21:41:09 GMT 1
Fair enough. I just found it very odd as 1. they are not a club, as far as I recall, who we've ever had any rivalry with 2. they're not local to us, I could understand an interest in Wrexham for example and 3. they are not even in our division. But each to their own. I recall coming up against Bury over the years and recently they have spent money they haven't got while we go the prudent way, so it's interesting to see the comparison for me.
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Post by razzledazzle on Dec 19, 2018 2:13:51 GMT 1
I don't have any connections with Bury, and have no personal grudge against the town, the club, the old chairman,the new chairman, or Uncle Tom Cobley. But I do think it's both worrying, and of wider interest, that the powers that be in football seem to have their eyes wide shut when it comes to learning from experience: their dulcet words to the contrary have a hollow taste. I fear that won't be likely to end up doing any favours either to Bury or to the sport as a whole. Vetting process, what vetting process?? How long before they wake up???
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2018 8:40:47 GMT 1
Why the near obsession with the goings on at Bury? Might be us one day. Need to understand were to look. etc.
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Post by northwestman on Dec 19, 2018 9:44:50 GMT 1
Why the near obsession with the goings on at Bury? Might be us one day. Need to understand were to look. etc. And that indeed is cause for concern for all of us. RW is now 77 and can't go on forever.
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Post by davycrockett on Dec 19, 2018 11:21:30 GMT 1
And when something does happen we’ll be owned for a time by a trust in St Lucia (or somewhere) with trustees who have an obligation to do the best for the beneficiaries....not the club.... depending on feelings at the time that could be sell to the highest bidder whoever that is....
For the trust to be affective (I presume it removes the shares from his estate now) the donor (RW) cannot control or even influence what happens... all tied up in cloak and dagger dealings devised by financial advisers and we all know the quality of financial advice over the last 30 years....what happened to te parcel of land by Lidl transfered to a new company controlled by one person on advice from advisers incase someone was injured during construction.... is it being transfered back?
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Post by staffordshrew on Dec 19, 2018 11:37:23 GMT 1
The perils of having money, off shore trust funds, financial "advisers". It's a weight off my mind being broke.
I wonder how prudent Dave Edwards has been with his money? We will some day be looking for someone who is smart with money and a fan.
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Post by northwestman on Dec 19, 2018 13:31:10 GMT 1
And when something does happen we’ll be owned for a time by a trust in St Lucia (or somewhere) with trustees who have an obligation to do the best for the beneficiaries....not the club.... depending on feelings at the time that could be sell to the highest bidder whoever that is.... For the trust to be affective (I presume it removes the shares from his estate now) the donor (RW) cannot control or even influence what happens... all tied up in cloak and dagger dealings devised by financial advisers and we all know the quality of financial advice over the last 30 years....what happened to te parcel of land by Lidl transfered to a new company controlled by one person on advice from advisers incase someone was injured during construction.... is it being transfered back? More research! At present the share capital of STFC consists of 1,010,513 shares with a nominal value of £2,526,282.50 The last information released about the names of shareholders in the annual return of 2015 shows that there were 850,513 shares with a nominal value of £2,126,282.50. The additional 160,000 shares were allotted on 21st February 2017 after the purchase of the training ground from RW. The 2015 shareholders list shows RW to hold 186,400 shares and Jefreen Holdings Ltd to hold 254,600 shares. Jefreen Holdings was set up in 2007 in the British Virgin Islands. RW is its shareholder with Willow Trust Ltd acting as an intermediary. So effectively RW is the clear majority shareholder of STFC, holding 441,000 shares plus the further 160,000 allocated in 2017. However, surprisingly, Companies House states that Jefreen Holdings has now been dissolved! RW has been director of 2 very similarly named Companies. Wychbury Properties (Ellesmere) Ltd and Wychbury Properties LLP. The former was a property development company involved in this:- www.shropshirestar.com/news/2015/09/30/dozens-of-homes-to-be-built-on-disused-ellesmere-railway-station-yard/ but was dissolved on 3rd April 2018. However, the latter is still in existence and was actually set up 3 years before the other Company. STFC 2007 was set up at the time of the Lidl sale but now seems to be a dormant Company as far as recent records show.
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Post by davycrockett on Dec 19, 2018 13:36:38 GMT 1
My point is /was the reason for putting things into trust is to remove them from your estate to avoid IHT.... you can’t do that and still have a control or benefit from them I don’t believe (or they return to your estate) but perhaps a financial adviser or accountant will confirm this..... Colin?
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Post by northwestman on Dec 19, 2018 13:42:36 GMT 1
My point is /was the reason for putting things into trust is to remove them from your estate to avoid IHT.... you can’t do that and still have a control or benefit from them I don’t believe (or they return to your estate) but perhaps a financial adviser or accountant will confirm this..... Colin? This was the Club's response in 2015 when asked by the Guardian about Jefreen Holdings:- Shrewsbury Town "Jefreen Holdings, listed in the British Virgin Islands, owns just under 30% of the club". Response from club “Jefreen has been a shareholder for some eight years, and has been a passive but supportive investor. It is not the owner of the club.”
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2018 13:43:23 GMT 1
Might be us one day. Need to understand were to look. etc. And that indeed is cause for concern for all of us. RW is now 77 and can't go on forever. Entirely my point NWM. We will be relying on you and people like you.
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Post by theriverside on Dec 19, 2018 20:24:41 GMT 1
Under the thread titled 'PHEW - new owner' was the following on their board -
'just in the knick of time, literally I gather, hours away from worst case scenario.. I gather theres a lot to sort , nearly 10m in debts and bailiffs at the door from previous misdealings, BUT, the new owner seems to be fronting up and taking it on the chin to salvage what he can NOW, and make your club one to be proud of once again. thankfully, you go into Xmas with a great shot at promotion, a club still alive.... and now with what seems to be a level headed approach to future survival. I wish all you shakers a very very happy Xmas and successful new year....'
So basically the club was on the verge of collapse and at the 11th hour someone in the same line of work as the previous owner rides in and saves the day..............yet few appear to smell a rat. The new owner can provide all the soundbites he wants but the debt seems unlikely to go away unless theres some sort of christmas miracle.
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