|
Post by staffordshrew on Oct 22, 2019 11:22:22 GMT 1
As tweeted by JRM. Kenneth Williams would have been perfect. "If this film were made it would be worth paying good money to see but who would be played by Barbara Windsor?" What a farce this all is.
|
|
|
Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Oct 22, 2019 12:08:35 GMT 1
Who would be played by Barbara Windsor?
Surely the clue is in the name.
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Oct 22, 2019 12:12:58 GMT 1
Who would be played by Barbara Windsor? Surely the clue is in the name. Off with his head!
|
|
|
Post by tvor on Oct 22, 2019 13:19:07 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by mattmw on Oct 22, 2019 19:01:25 GMT 1
This bit of the Bill is hilarious
|
|
|
Post by tvor on Oct 22, 2019 21:24:36 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by kuffdam72 on Oct 23, 2019 1:10:31 GMT 1
I hope the good people of Shrewsbury remember Daniel's underhand methods when the election comes and vote for someone with ethics. If there is a veto on an extension then expect a vote to revoke Article 50 and start the whole process again, cheats like Daniel must never be allowed to prosper. edited by pilch can you not find a better word to use than the c word ?
|
|
|
Post by Worthingshrew on Oct 23, 2019 6:46:13 GMT 1
Why is Boris saying that if EU grants an extension, he will press for an election, rather than debating and having a vote which indications are he would now win?
|
|
|
Post by mattmw on Oct 23, 2019 7:24:41 GMT 1
Why is Boris saying that if EU grants an extension, he will press for an election, rather than debating and having a vote which indications are he would now win? Very good question! Also if he calls an election before the Withdrawl Bill is past it is dead and won’t be taken forward anyway. A new Bill would have to be introduced by the new Government and debated and go through the whole Parliamentary process again, so an election just adds a minimum of 5 weeks to the process. The polls suggest the Conservatives would get a majority if an election was called, but they did when May called her election to, so it’s not certain an election settles anything and if election pacts are made probably reopens a no deal brexit on one side or a second referendum/revoke article 50 on the other side Best way to get brexit done is to reintroduce the Withdrawl Bill and let Parliament get on with scrutinising it
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 23, 2019 7:36:27 GMT 1
Why is Boris saying that if EU grants an extension, he will press for an election, rather than debating and having a vote which indications are he would now win? The Tories have been seeking one for some time now. And Labour made it clear they will only do so once the extension has been granted. So I now he might think that an election may now be available to him. But then I suppose it depends if Labour will then look to other reasons to avoid an election, perhaps when 'no-deal' is permanently off the table...which I guess would mean when some EU-UK free trade deal is successfully negotiated. Who knows how long that could take. So he'll push for an election because he thinks he will now get one and will do well in it. Whether he will or indeed whether the opposition will grant him one, who knows. We wait and see. And not too sure we can say that the indications are that he would 'win' when looking to the withdrawal agreement and the votes yesterday, from what you read the approval it gained yesterday shows it has a chance but its in now way guaranteed to be approved (although that in itself is an improvement on May's deal)...👍
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 23, 2019 7:39:32 GMT 1
Jack Douglas as Jean-Claude Juncker.... Phwoah!! Phwaay!!
|
|
|
Post by frankwellshrews on Oct 23, 2019 8:15:27 GMT 1
Surely a general election is just Boris sabotaging brexit at this point?
There's a deal; we've agreed the deal. MPs want to make sure crucial legislation is subject to the appropriate scrutiny, which is their job. 3 days doesn't allow for that, as anyone sensible will understand.
Why does it matter if we brexit on Boris' arbitrary deadline? This has been going on for longer than 3 years; another 3 months to make sure there's no fundamental errors in the legislation is trivial in the grand scheme of things. Let the civil servants and lawyers do their job and the rest of them get back to the business of actually running the country in the meantime.
A GE might deliver a slim majority for Boris but then again it might not and might further the paralysis. Theresa May was in a much stronger position than BoJo and nearly lost.
I can only imagine the eye rolling going on in Brussels right now. Really makes me question Boris' true motives to be honest.
|
|
|
Post by zenfootball2 on Oct 23, 2019 9:25:21 GMT 1
As tweeted by JRM. Kenneth Williams would have been perfect. "If this film were made it would be worth paying good money to see but who would be played by Barbara Windsor?" What a farce this all is. love it but even the writers of Carry on could not have dreamt of such a farcial sketch that brexit has become .
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Oct 23, 2019 9:38:55 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Oct 23, 2019 16:04:42 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by SeanBroseley on Oct 23, 2019 17:03:36 GMT 1
Not hearing anything about an interim government or a government of (so-called) national unity. Another launch-pad explosion just like Change UK. Occupy the centre ground they said...
|
|
|
Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Oct 23, 2019 17:29:27 GMT 1
It seems to me that the result of a GE is impossible to forecast, the Tories may be ahead in the polls but MPs are elected on a constituency basis not a nationwide vote.
Given that a Brexit deal has been approved in Parliament the argument is about the length of time devoted to scrutiny of the Brexit bill.
I guess that the majority will think it reasonable that more than 3 days are allowed for consideration of the most important change to our constitution in living memory.
For Labour MPs in the northern leave seats a compelling argument will be that Labour wants to ensure that worker’s rights and safeguarding the NHS have to be added to the Brexit bill.
Who knows how much personal loyalty the MPs who have resigned from their parties have retained, how the Brexit Party will react to a soft Brexit, how much voters will act on distrust of proven liar Boris Johnson or indeed how much credit he will get for getting the agreement through Parliament, how many people still want to remain and will vote Liberal. There will be other variables I haven’t thought of.
Then there’s the campaign itself. I find Johnson extremely unconvincing with his strange body language and evasive bumbling, but I know others find this endearing. I wouldn’t be surprised at him blowing a gasket under pressure.
|
|
|
Post by salop27 on Oct 23, 2019 21:11:03 GMT 1
It seems to me that the result of a GE is impossible to forecast, the Tories may be ahead in the polls but MPs are elected on a constituency basis not a nationwide vote. Given that a Brexit deal has been approved in Parliament the argument is about the length of time devoted to scrutiny of the Brexit bill. I guess that the majority will think it reasonable that more than 3 days are allowed for consideration of the most important change to our constitution in living memory. For Labour MPs in the northern leave seats a compelling argument will be that Labour wants to ensure that worker’s rights and safeguarding the NHS have to be added to the Brexit bill. Who knows how much personal loyalty the MPs who have resigned from their parties have retained, how the Brexit Party will react to a soft Brexit, how much voters will act on distrust of proven liar Boris Johnson or indeed how much credit he will get for getting the agreement through Parliament, how many people still want to remain and will vote Liberal. There will be other variables I haven’t thought of. Then there’s the campaign itself. I find Johnson extremely unconvincing with his strange body language and evasive bumbling, but I know others find this endearing. I wouldn’t be surprised at him blowing a gasket under pressure. Boris Johnson's natural environment is campaigning. He's pretty poor in Parliament. For all your points you seem to have forgotten to mention anything regarding Labour. They will be losing votes to either side over Brexit. Corbyn is seen as unelectable by most and labours continual claim the NHS will be sold to the US is plain fake news!
|
|
|
Post by simianbenzoate on Oct 23, 2019 21:32:49 GMT 1
Parliament is sovereign. therefore, it cannot put into place legislation that binds a future government i.e. everything can be amended, repealed or replaced. So as far as the "obligation" to implement any legislation goes, it's irrelevant whether an MP did or didn't say they'd respect it. As you admit yourself, it was advisory, as the very concept of a binding referendum undermines the concept of a soverign parliament, something you lot are a bit keen on, i've heard Indeed parliament is sovereign. Problem with the referendum is that parliament voted to let the public decide and implement the result, when you do that you have to follow through. Parliament hasn't hence the people vs parliament situation. Also distorting Parliament currently are the amount of independent mps and mps who have switched sides, really adding fuel to the fire. People are welcome to say these mps are standing up for what they believe in and good on them. Trouble is they are representing the people of their constituents and not themselves. Change teams by all means but call a by election to run it by the people who pay your wages and who you represent. No, you don't. It was an advisory referendum. Cameron muddied the waters with that ridiculous leaflet but the legalities of the referendum act were clear for anyone to read - in fact, as mentioned elsewhere, had it been a binding referendum the result would have been thrown out with the subsequent revelations over spending, cambridge analytica, aaron banks etc. I'd probably agree about the team switching in general but by the same token, those that have switched have had a pretty clear stance on brexit all along, and were re-elected AFTER the referendum on that position, so their constituents (the majority) got what they wanted AND knew what they were getting.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 22:03:57 GMT 1
It seems to me that the result of a GE is impossible to forecast, the Tories may be ahead in the polls but MPs are elected on a constituency basis not a nationwide vote. Given that a Brexit deal has been approved in Parliament the argument is about the length of time devoted to scrutiny of the Brexit bill. I guess that the majority will think it reasonable that more than 3 days are allowed for consideration of the most important change to our constitution in living memory. For Labour MPs in the northern leave seats a compelling argument will be that Labour wants to ensure that worker’s rights and safeguarding the NHS have to be added to the Brexit bill. Who knows how much personal loyalty the MPs who have resigned from their parties have retained, how the Brexit Party will react to a soft Brexit, how much voters will act on distrust of proven liar Boris Johnson or indeed how much credit he will get for getting the agreement through Parliament, how many people still want to remain and will vote Liberal. There will be other variables I haven’t thought of. Then there’s the campaign itself. I find Johnson extremely unconvincing with his strange body language and evasive bumbling, but I know others find this endearing. I wouldn’t be surprised at him blowing a gasket under pressure. Boris Johnson's natural environment is campaigning. He's pretty poor in Parliament. For all your points you seem to have forgotten to mention anything regarding Labour. They will be losing votes to either side over Brexit. Corbyn is seen as unelectable by most and labours continual claim the NHS will be sold to the US is plain fake news! Quite true salop27. His campaigning is so good that both his last two GE campaigns in Uxbridge have been swings toward Labour.
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Oct 23, 2019 22:16:41 GMT 1
It seems to me that the result of a GE is impossible to forecast, the Tories may be ahead in the polls but MPs are elected on a constituency basis not a nationwide vote. Given that a Brexit deal has been approved in Parliament the argument is about the length of time devoted to scrutiny of the Brexit bill. I guess that the majority will think it reasonable that more than 3 days are allowed for consideration of the most important change to our constitution in living memory. For Labour MPs in the northern leave seats a compelling argument will be that Labour wants to ensure that worker’s rights and safeguarding the NHS have to be added to the Brexit bill. Who knows how much personal loyalty the MPs who have resigned from their parties have retained, how the Brexit Party will react to a soft Brexit, how much voters will act on distrust of proven liar Boris Johnson or indeed how much credit he will get for getting the agreement through Parliament, how many people still want to remain and will vote Liberal. There will be other variables I haven’t thought of. Then there’s the campaign itself. I find Johnson extremely unconvincing with his strange body language and evasive bumbling, but I know others find this endearing. I wouldn’t be surprised at him blowing a gasket under pressure. Boris Johnson's natural environment is campaigning. He's pretty poor in Parliament. For all your points you seem to have forgotten to mention anything regarding Labour. They will be losing votes to either side over Brexit. Corbyn is seen as unelectable by most and labours continual claim the NHS will be sold to the US is plain fake news! Thing is though do we want a Prime Minister who is pretty poor in parliament? Corbyn maybe seen as unelectable to those who haven't actually listened to him and just read the Sun/Express/Times. People want to know the NHS is safe, the Tories have gone very right wing and will be desperate for a US trade deal post Brexit, so where does that leave us?
|
|
|
Post by martinshrew on Oct 23, 2019 22:29:20 GMT 1
Boris Johnson's natural environment is campaigning. He's pretty poor in Parliament. For all your points you seem to have forgotten to mention anything regarding Labour. They will be losing votes to either side over Brexit. Corbyn is seen as unelectable by most and labours continual claim the NHS will be sold to the US is plain fake news! Thing is though do we want a Prime Minister who is pretty poor in parliament? Corbyn maybe seen as unelectable to those who haven't actually listened to him and just read the Sun/Express/Times. People want to know the NHS is safe, the Tories have gone very right wing and will be desperate for a US trade deal post Brexit, so where does that leave us? And Corbyn has dragged the Labour so far left they're unelectable, and the polls agree. After the way the Tories have handled Brexit overall, Labour should be absolutely p**sing it in the polls.
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Oct 23, 2019 22:31:22 GMT 1
It seems to me that the result of a GE is impossible to forecast, the Tories may be ahead in the polls but MPs are elected on a constituency basis not a nationwide vote. Given that a Brexit deal has been approved in Parliament the argument is about the length of time devoted to scrutiny of the Brexit bill. I guess that the majority will think it reasonable that more than 3 days are allowed for consideration of the most important change to our constitution in living memory. For Labour MPs in the northern leave seats a compelling argument will be that Labour wants to ensure that worker’s rights and safeguarding the NHS have to be added to the Brexit bill. Who knows how much personal loyalty the MPs who have resigned from their parties have retained, how the Brexit Party will react to a soft Brexit, how much voters will act on distrust of proven liar Boris Johnson or indeed how much credit he will get for getting the agreement through Parliament, how many people still want to remain and will vote Liberal. There will be other variables I haven’t thought of. Then there’s the campaign itself. I find Johnson extremely unconvincing with his strange body language and evasive bumbling, but I know others find this endearing. I wouldn’t be surprised at him blowing a gasket under pressure. It's a shame the General Election is all going to be about Brexit. Quite likely to end in stalemate again. If only we could have had a week or two to work the Brexit bill properly through parliament and then a confirmatory referendum so that when the election did come it really was setting us up for a five year term post whatever happens to Brexit
|
|
|
Post by simianbenzoate on Oct 23, 2019 22:40:35 GMT 1
Did they though? because it wasn't really an issue before the referendum was offered, other than in the conservative party where eurosceptacism had become increasingly likely to fracture the Tories and jeopardise their ability to form a majority government. Of course there's always been discussion of the pros and cons amongst the plebes but never at such a weapons grade level. Parliament is, and was (as leavers will often claim themselves) strongly in favour of remaining as a whole (on a personal level if not the "what i'll actually vote for to appease constituents" level), and had they decided to keep it in Parliament would have enjoyed a comfortable remain vote. Let's call it for what it was. Cameron had no interest in our opinions on Brexit other than assuming he'd get an obvious remain indication with which to silence internal factional warfare. He done F^%$*ed up. Not sure what you are referring to there. Did they what? Did parliament make the decision to hand the decision of the UK's membership of the EU to the people of the UK in the form a referendum? They did didn't they? Did the people then head out (in record numbers to boot) to make that decision and provide parliament with an answer? They did didn't they? Maybe I've missed what you are getting at but even with that said, the mental gymnastics that you see from those who clearly wish to remain is sommat else. It really doesn't matter how some will try and dress it up, how some wish to interpret it; Parliament asked the people of the UK to make that decision and the people gave them the answer which was (and it doesn't hurt to remind people as it seems people wish to ignore or forget what was actually asked and the answer given)...to Leave the European Union. There was no turn to page two, no second question, it was unconditional. So sure, lets call it out for what it is. Someone ****ed up for sure. Remain ****ed up because they thought they would walk it. Now having made a mess of it and because they didn't get the result they wanted, remain are now trying their level best to unravel it all, annul the result of that first referendum and get people to vote until they get the result they want. This is clear for anyone to see. Its blatantly apparent. Lord know what will happen if there is a second referendum and leave were to win again. How they would then look to get out of it a second time of asking... Apologies in advance if this doesn't fully address, sleep deprived. I'm saying they didn't offer the referendum because parliament was split as you claimed "Well sure, we knew that from the off. We know parliament is split, we know parliament is unable to make a decision. That is the very reason why parliament made the decision to ask and allow the public to make that decision (in the form of a referendum) " They offered it because it was eating the Tory party. most parties prior to 2010 were suggesting a referendum on Europe, at least on further changes to our relationship with them if not an in/out decision. Labour pulled theirs from their manifesto shortly after, not sure about the others. The coalition government established the referendum lock that forced a referendum in the event of a renegotiation of terms of membership, which is of course what happened when Cameron famously went to Brussels. then they got skinned by UKIP at the EU elections and the rest is history Call it mental gymnastics if you want, but the reason for the referendum is almost irrelevant. it was established in law as an advisory referendum. It did NOT put the power to enact the result of the vote into the act, unlike the AV referendum. And, as ruled by the high court, a minister or government can promise whatever they like but they cannot deliver that promise without consent of parliament. The only reason this is really even relevant is because the brexit arguments seems to be predicated on "brexit MUST be delivered", and any MP or remainer who says otherwise is defying the will of the people. There is nothing legally or constitutionally that says brexit MUST happen. So the "traitor" talk aimed at judges and MPs is sheer petulance aimed at those attempting to find out what can be done with the expression of wish which is all the referendum amounts to. The tories have reinforced this again and again, "crush the saboteurs", to the point where everything going wrong is being spun as "remainer plots to frustrate brexit", as you've amply demonstrated. What should have happened is an (advisory) referendum as an opinion poll to see what the main concerns were, a period of consultation with the EU to see what assurances the UK gov could take back to those on the leave side, and an investigation of what the options are for leaving without the politically and emotionally charged atmosphere of the last three years. Then a binding referendum with options that are actually possible, and their consequences, would have resulted in something no one could argue with or feel "thwarted" by, as would be the case with any potential 2nd ref now. Disappointment, maybe, but that'll always be the case for someone. I think both sides would have been far more receptive to discussion and presentation of the opposition case, and the revelations made in researching the options for leaving, had the nature of the referendum arrangements not meant that immediately the day after we were reduced to "you lost, get over it". I don't know what you expected other than kickback and anger from immediately disenfranchising nearly half the voters i assume by quoting the unconditional nature of the referendum leave option you have always and will always be in favour of no deal and all the consequences of such, so you'll be as glad as i am to see johnson's deal flounder. but i'm afraid that's not what a lot of your fellows had in mind when lured with such promises as no need to leave the single market and i think you know that, especially with the clamouring from leave camps to get this deal through - whether or not you were a force unified in your brexit wishlists previously, it's quite clear now most are pursuing literally anything with a brexit label, and i'm glad some MPs are still trying to honour the result by investigation options but not supporting brexit at any cost.
|
|
|
Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Oct 23, 2019 22:47:36 GMT 1
It seems to me that the result of a GE is impossible to forecast, the Tories may be ahead in the polls but MPs are elected on a constituency basis not a nationwide vote. Given that a Brexit deal has been approved in Parliament the argument is about the length of time devoted to scrutiny of the Brexit bill. I guess that the majority will think it reasonable that more than 3 days are allowed for consideration of the most important change to our constitution in living memory. For Labour MPs in the northern leave seats a compelling argument will be that Labour wants to ensure that worker’s rights and safeguarding the NHS have to be added to the Brexit bill. Who knows how much personal loyalty the MPs who have resigned from their parties have retained, how the Brexit Party will react to a soft Brexit, how much voters will act on distrust of proven liar Boris Johnson or indeed how much credit he will get for getting the agreement through Parliament, how many people still want to remain and will vote Liberal. There will be other variables I haven’t thought of. Then there’s the campaign itself. I find Johnson extremely unconvincing with his strange body language and evasive bumbling, but I know others find this endearing. I wouldn’t be surprised at him blowing a gasket under pressure. Boris Johnson's natural environment is campaigning. He's pretty poor in Parliament. For all your points you seem to have forgotten to mention anything regarding Labour. They will be losing votes to either side over Brexit. Corbyn is seen as unelectable by most and labours continual claim the NHS will be sold to the US is plain fake news! My third sentence is about Labour, I thought the point I made was so obvious that it didn’t need expanding. However, it’s been said many times on this board that Labour voters in Northern leave constituencies wouldn’t vote for a party that wanted to remain. Now that Labour has voted for the bill that obstacle is removed and Labour candidates can campaign on the basis that they want to ensure that the final version of the bill includes protection of worker’s rights and the NHS, people have never trusted the Tories over the NHS. The fake news cliche will not work here. Both issues are vote winners in working class constituencies. As for Johnson’s campaigning prowess, his own minders know what they are doing keeping him away from interviews with major news outlets. I’ve just heard Kate Burley of Sky saying that he’s never accepted an invitation to be on her programme. He will not be able to avoid the major news organisations during an election campaign. Election campaigns grow their own momentum, now that Labour agree to passing Brexit legislation it ceases to be the major issue and the many problems that people have suffered since 2010 will come to the fore. Corbyn may not be popular, but Labour could put forward policies that people like and will vote for despite their distaste for him. It not as though Johnson is a trusted leader, just ask the DUP.
|
|
|
Post by simianbenzoate on Oct 23, 2019 22:49:41 GMT 1
It seems to me that the result of a GE is impossible to forecast, the Tories may be ahead in the polls but MPs are elected on a constituency basis not a nationwide vote. Given that a Brexit deal has been approved in Parliament the argument is about the length of time devoted to scrutiny of the Brexit bill. I guess that the majority will think it reasonable that more than 3 days are allowed for consideration of the most important change to our constitution in living memory. For Labour MPs in the northern leave seats a compelling argument will be that Labour wants to ensure that worker’s rights and safeguarding the NHS have to be added to the Brexit bill. Who knows how much personal loyalty the MPs who have resigned from their parties have retained, how the Brexit Party will react to a soft Brexit, how much voters will act on distrust of proven liar Boris Johnson or indeed how much credit he will get for getting the agreement through Parliament, how many people still want to remain and will vote Liberal. There will be other variables I haven’t thought of. Then there’s the campaign itself. I find Johnson extremely unconvincing with his strange body language and evasive bumbling, but I know others find this endearing. I wouldn’t be surprised at him blowing a gasket under pressure. It's a shame the General Election is all going to be about Brexit. Quite likely to end in stalemate again. If only we could have had a week or two to work the Brexit bill properly through parliament and then a confirmatory referendum so that when the election did come it really was setting us up for a five year term post whatever happens to Brexit exactly it. brexit is a cancer that is going to infect every single vote, local and national, until and way after it's resolved, if it ever is. I don't really know how polling will cope with, for instance, people who have always voted labour but won't support corbyn till he's firm on a 2nd ref (even though he is, conditions permitting - it seems people aren't getting that though), or leave for that matter; Tory voters who want brexit and don't trust boris, but aren't willing to vote Brexit PLC in case it dilutes the vote against labour; tory voters who would never, ever vote anything else but want to remain. Remain really suffer with corbyn making them balance between 2 evils - i want remain but not sure i can bring myself to vote yellow tory. and then you have to consider the contribution of FPTP...
|
|
|
Post by simianbenzoate on Oct 23, 2019 22:54:07 GMT 1
listening on a phone in today on "who is to blame for brexit (probably) not happening on the 31st?", leave voters of all political affiliations seem to be utterly split on his blame-worthyness.
|
|
|
Post by simianbenzoate on Oct 23, 2019 22:59:23 GMT 1
They claim they'd accept a second vote to leave, but they wouldn't. There would be another excuse. Big difference between accepting a result and being happy with it. I will never be happy with it, but could more easily accept it if it was a decision made in good faith - brexit at any cost is not in good faith. But our acceptance is irrelevant anyway. If it has parliamentary support, it's a done deal and there's nowt we can do about it. We don't have nearly as much power as you seem to think we do to "frustrate" brexit
|
|
|
Post by salop27 on Oct 23, 2019 23:34:58 GMT 1
Boris Johnson's natural environment is campaigning. He's pretty poor in Parliament. For all your points you seem to have forgotten to mention anything regarding Labour. They will be losing votes to either side over Brexit. Corbyn is seen as unelectable by most and labours continual claim the NHS will be sold to the US is plain fake news! Quite true salop27. His campaigning is so good that both his last two GE campaigns in Uxbridge have been swings toward Labour. Johnson didn't do to bad in two London mayor campaigns or that thing in 2016, can't remember what that was for now😉
|
|
|
Post by neilsalop on Oct 24, 2019 8:02:53 GMT 1
We're now coming up on 5,000 posts on this thread, which is even more than the Silver Fish thread, so I have to ask the question; has anyone actually changed their minds? If you were a Farage/ Rees-Mogg fan boy who wanted to leave without a deal, have you softened towards a deal? If you were a regular run of the mill, stick it to the man leave voter; are you now a no-dealer, a soft Brexiter or a remainer? If you voted remain are you now prepared to accept a hard Brexit or even no-deal?
There doesn't seem to much flexibility shown by either side in general, but I was wondering whether this thread had softened peoples stance or just served to entranch their ideals.
Valerie and Salop27 need not reply, as we already know that they haven't budged one inch.
|
|