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Post by MartinB on Feb 26, 2015 23:46:00 GMT 1
Must admit I don't have a clue who to vote for in May. I tend to focus on employment policies due to my job as I know more about that area than others. All I have heard from both the main parties is policies aimed at headline grabbing rather than things with real substance to help.
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Post by shrewder on Feb 27, 2015 7:51:14 GMT 1
Must admit I don't have a clue who to vote for in May. I tend to focus on employment policies due to my job as I know more about that area than others. All I have heard from both the main parties is policies aimed at headline grabbing rather than things with real substance to help. Yes, its one of those times when you wish there was a box on the ballot paper saying "none of the above"
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Post by Matster on Feb 27, 2015 8:04:21 GMT 1
Must admit I don't have a clue who to vote for in May. I tend to focus on employment policies due to my job as I know more about that area than others. All I have heard from both the main parties is policies aimed at headline grabbing rather than things with real substance to help. Yes, its one of those times when you wish there was a box on the ballot paper saying "none of the above" Ah, Brewster's Millions. Good film.
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Post by MartinB on Feb 27, 2015 8:22:10 GMT 1
Must admit I don't have a clue who to vote for in May. I tend to focus on employment policies due to my job as I know more about that area than others. All I have heard from both the main parties is policies aimed at headline grabbing rather than things with real substance to help. Yes, its one of those times when you wish there was a box on the ballot paper saying "none of the above" At the last genera election in my constituency I could have voted for none of the above. Terry Marsh the ex boxer changed his name by deed poll which gave people that option
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Post by jamo on Feb 27, 2015 9:14:00 GMT 1
I am a tory through and through,
But you're not though are you ? You're a working class lad from Telford ( Newport's in Telford before you get snobby ) you just want to think you're a Tory. And to be fair The Consevative Party needs people like you to get elected otherwise the people they really represent don't exist in enough numbers to ever get into office. You may think you're a Tory but rest assured that the Conservative Central Office hates Middle England with a passion
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 10:23:24 GMT 1
There has been two fantastic opportunities to air your views locally with two QT's being held. Anyone bother?
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Post by shrewed46 on Feb 27, 2015 10:42:14 GMT 1
I am a tory through and through, Even some of the most ardent labour voters state that the 2 Ed's are unelectable, but here is the problem, a few Tories are deciding to go to UKIP, who have said, we are leaving Europe, not give a referendum, but were off.... That may be a decent vote in by elections, or as a protest vote to get them to pull the finger out.
So what is the alternative, because UKIP are music to Labours ears, as they will take votes of the Tories, the problem is the SNP, which is dangerous to all of everyone in the UK, but especially England. Sturgeon has made no bones about her dislike of the English.
There is no way, as long as I have a hole in my arse, will Labour get a majority vote, but you can bet your bottom dollar that Sturgeon will be deputy PM if there is a hung parliament, Milliband is already her lap dog. So if the Blue voters are thinking they will just give Dave a bloody nose by voting UKIP, really think about the repercussions. The alternative is very very scary
if I was Conservative leader at the moment, I would be setting in stone an October Referendum on Europe It is such a shame you believe everything that Conservative Central Office says, just a couple of points that disproves your comments. Nicola Sturgeon is not a SNP candidate for the forth coming election so is extremely unlikely to be deputy prime minister when she is not in the commons. SNP are very unlikely to go into coalition with a party committed to retaining Trident. Much more worrying is the thought of Cameron teaming up with UKIP and the DUP. What surprises me most about your undying support for the Tories is that you are supporting a party that has decimated the military and overseen British international influence reduced to it's lowest in centuries.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Feb 27, 2015 10:54:00 GMT 1
I just can't trust Labour after what happened in Rotherham. I don't think I ever will do either after that. The Tories are just in it for themselves and big business and sod most of the rest (the problem is they can keep getting away with it because Labour...well, because it's Labour). And other than that, who? The LibDems have thrown themselves back a good few years after they're partnership with the Tories (they must be kicking themselves now that the two main parties are starting to lose votes). The Greens I like and they say some good things but I don't want to see the UK totally defenseless. UKIP just isn't for me.
Something has to change. We need a real alternative to the Tories and to Labour and at the moment I don't think there is one.
Not much meat on the bone there I appreciate and I have no doubt that can be picked apart by those who know more about this sort of thing than me...but just as I see it, as we're talking politics like...
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Post by ssshrew on Feb 27, 2015 11:34:16 GMT 1
I just can't trust Labour after what happened in Rotherham. I don't think I ever will do either after that. The Tories are just in it for themselves and big business and sod most of the rest (the problem is they can keep getting away with it because Labour...well, because it's Labour). And other than that, who? The LibDems have thrown themselves back a good few years after they're partnership with the Tories (they must be kicking themselves now that the two main parties are starting to lose votes). The Greens I like and they say some good things but I don't want to see the UK totally defenseless. UKIP just isn't for me. Something has to change. We need a real alternative to the Tories and to Labour and at the moment I don't think there is one. Not much meat on the bone there I appreciate and I have no doubt that can be picked apart by those who know more about this sort of thing than me...but just as I see it, as we're talking politics like... Agree totally with you. It's an terrible dilemma. I just couldn't face another 5 years of this lot for the reasons you have outlined. Labour at the moment come over as unsure of what they want to do (it may be that Ed Milliband just can't get the message across). The Lib Dems don't get me started B&A just isn't long enough! I like the thought of the Greens but we just haven't the money for idealistic ideas at the moment although their time will come even if not in my lifetime. UKIP I just couldn't but I suspect they might do well even if not in Shropshire. I will vote because it's my duty to do so but what ........ Who knows? Perhaps MM would like to stand!!!!!
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Post by percy on Feb 27, 2015 12:38:57 GMT 1
Most worrying election that I've ever faced.
The big two:
Labour - brought up to be a strong labour supporter and I think Blair (Iraq aside) was ideal as he bridged my father's leftist teachings and my capitalist nature. Unlike the posters above I do think Milliband has a clear vision, it is just that it is not sensible. Redistribution of wealth needs to be done to protect the most vulnerable and not to reward those out to exploit the system. I have zero confidence in Milliband to get this right.
Conservative - Cameron has no clear vision; his policies change with the direction of the wind and he has no convictions. Failure to act on immigration because of PC concerns could end up with us leaving the EU which would be a disaster.
Those that will prop it up:
Green - leader is a joke removing any chance for them to help influence the agenda.
LibDem - fighting with labour to be the most left wing party and winning - policies are just not credible.
UKIP - worryingly he seems to be gaining credibility as the others trip up and he sticks to his (limited) message. Seizing on the PC vs immigration control paranoia to discredit the whole EU framework to create a focus for blame - not unheard of as a successful political ploy in history. Not enough MPs to influence anything.
Regionals - (unionists, SNP) will gain votes by campaigning on local issues and will not join forces with either of the big two offering only selctive support on individual issues.
Predicted Result
LibDem will jump ship to join labour and we will change to proportional representation to get support of minority parties just to get over the line. Then let's see how long it takes for Milliband to destroy labour's chances of coming to power again in the following 10 years - my bet is the coalition will fall after 2 years when interest rates have risen and they have bled the middle class sufficiently to convince everyone that the tories were not so bad.
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Post by ssshrew on Feb 27, 2015 12:53:10 GMT 1
Most worrying election that I've ever faced. The big two: Labour - brought up to be a strong labour supporter and I think Blair (Iraq aside) was ideal as he bridged my father's leftist teachings and my capitalist nature. Unlike the posters above I do think Milliband has a clear vision, it is just that it is not sensible. Redistribution of wealth needs to be done to protect the most vulnerable and not to reward those out to exploit the system. I have zero confidence in Milliband to get this right. Conservative - Cameron has no clear vision; his policies change with the direction of the wind and he has no convictions. Failure to act on immigration because of PC concerns could end up with us leaving the EU which would be a disaster. Those that will prop it up: Green - leader is a joke removing any chance for them to help influence the agenda. LibDem - fighting with labour to be the most left wing party and winning - policies are just not credible. UKIP - worryingly he seems to be gaining credibility as the others trip up and he sticks to his (limited) message. Seizing on the PC vs immigration control paranoia to discredit the whole EU framework to create a focus for blame - not unheard of as a successful political ploy in history. Not enough MPs to influence anything. Regionals - (unionists, SNP) will gain votes by campaigning on local issues and will not join forces with either of the big two offering only selctive support on individual issues. Predicted Result LibDem will jump ship to join labour and we will change to proportional representation to get support of minority parties just to get over the line. Then let's see how long it takes for Milliband to destroy labour's chances of coming to power again in the following 10 years - my bet is the coalition will fall after 2 years when interest rates have risen and they have bled the middle class sufficiently to convince everyone that the tories were not so bad. Thanks for that. Sums me up. Sorry if I mislead though. I think Labour and Ed Milliband have a clear vision, I just think he is struggling to get it across. Perhaps he should be saying 'I'm not Nick Clegg, I know what I stand for' a bit stronger!!!!!
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Post by atcham jack on Feb 27, 2015 13:10:52 GMT 1
I would agree with a lab/lib pact but cannot see lab agreeing to proportional rep. I can see lib/lab removing house of geriatrics and replacing with English elected parliament for a period of 5 years. libs 15 year term was crazy and did not deserve to succeed.
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Post by MartinB on Feb 27, 2015 13:17:50 GMT 1
Only clear vision I see from Ed Milliband is to try to pamper to Sun readers.
Take the example of "Three million apprenticeships". Sounds great then you see the "for people who get the grades". Policy is actually "three million apprenticeships for 18 year olds with at least two A levels". How many of those are going to want to take £100 a week apprenticeships when they can get jobs which pay more?
If this was "Three million apprenticeships for school leavers who have less than A level qualifications" it would be useful.
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Post by stfc1969 on Feb 27, 2015 13:18:55 GMT 1
Anybody thinking that the two 'knob-ed's' can do a better job with the economy and running the country is imho deluded!!
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Post by MartinB on Feb 27, 2015 13:33:14 GMT 1
Only clear vision I see from Ed Milliband is to try to pamper to Sun readers. Take the example of "Three million apprenticeships". Sounds great then you see the "for people who get the grades". Policy is actually "three million apprenticeships for 18 year olds with at least two A levels". How many of those are going to want to take £100 a week apprenticeships when they can get jobs which pay more? If this was "Three million apprenticeships for school leavers who have less than A level qualifications" it would be useful. Would add haven't read a Conservative employment policy that made me want to jump up and down with excitement yet.
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Post by darkshrew on Feb 27, 2015 14:27:20 GMT 1
I too predict that a Labour Party desperate for power will sell their future by agreeing to proportional representation in return for the support to get them over the line.
As for the lib lab pact - I'd give it less than 12 months.
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Post by Dancin on Feb 27, 2015 14:31:32 GMT 1
If the Tories win the election, I may well lose the will to live!! Personally I can't see any other result than a Tory Prime Minister unless something drastic happens between now and then. Milliband is to weak and as for Ed Balls!!!!!
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Post by Bilbo on Feb 27, 2015 14:57:26 GMT 1
One thing that worries me is the belief some have that Cameron and his cronies are doing well with the economy. The Tories have borrowed more money in 4 1/2 years than Labour did in 13! I'm no economist, but surely we have to pay off what we borrow?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 15:10:06 GMT 1
I cannot see a Lib/Lab coalition as the Lib Dems are unlikely to win enough seats to form a government with Labour. It will either be a Lab/Plaid/SNP coalition or heaven forbib UKIP/Tory.
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Post by percy on Feb 27, 2015 15:11:21 GMT 1
One thing that worries me is the belief some have that Cameron and his cronies are doing well with the economy. The Tories have borrowed more money in 4 1/2 years than Labour did in 13! I'm no economist, but surely we have to pay off what we borrow? Issuing debt now and buying it back when interest rates rise is pretty sensible; their only problem is that the economy is not strong enough to support higher interest rates.
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Post by champagneprince on Feb 27, 2015 16:47:32 GMT 1
I just can't trust Labour after what happened in Rotherham. I don't think I ever will do either after that. The Tories are just in it for themselves and big business and sod most of the rest (the problem is they can keep getting away with it because Labour...well, because it's Labour). And other than that, who? The LibDems have thrown themselves back a good few years after they're partnership with the Tories (they must be kicking themselves now that the two main parties are starting to lose votes). The Greens I like and they say some good things but I don't want to see the UK totally defenseless. UKIP just isn't for me. Something has to change. We need a real alternative to the Tories and to Labour and at the moment I don't think there is one. Not much meat on the bone there I appreciate and I have no doubt that can be picked apart by those who know more about this sort of thing than me...but just as I see it, as we're talking politics like...
Nobody can 'pull anybody apart' for two reasons: 1. Each vote is worth the same as anybody else's 2. If people try to 'pull you apart' then they fail because it is natural to protect your stance and therefore any attacker never really convinces you that they are right.
Here is where I'm at:
Firstly, I never really vote for a local politician in a General Election. The party I am voting for is the one I think who offers our country the best leadership for the next four years. If I can't decide (normally because I view them all as 'as bad as each other', incompetent or just a complete knob) then I vote for someone who perhaps has the most potential with a bit of support.
Tories - Cameron has done a good job to get the deficit down IMO. An absolute mess that should have been addressed by Labour but wasn't. Whilst under a Tory government there looks like there's more to come, we are not in the same boat as Greece, Italy, Portugal, Cyprus, Ireland and Spain. I dread to think of where we'd be if Labour had still been in government after the last election. Cameron wants to stay a nuclear power (great), I do feel he's genuine re:immigration, the NHS, benefits scroungers and education, although perhaps lacks the talent to see it through? Needs to be very careful that he doesn't let the rich/poor divide widen when we are in wealthier times. Established on the World stage, which is where I go next........
Labour - they lost the last election because of Gordon Brown and replaced him with Miliband. Need I say more? The bloke is NOT the leader of this country and we would become a laughing stock on the European and World stage with Mrs. Merkel, Putin and even the president of Leichtenstein running rings round him. Never mind, if they get in power then they can always replace him with Ed Balls.........Oh, s**t! I have voted for them before and my nan was a staunch Labour supporter but I just can't be having Miliband.
Lib/Dem - I really thought that Clegg could develop the Lib/Dems into a 'true' alternative to the big two. Instead the party has gone backwards and he seems a little embarrassed to be a part of it all. Could've been good, should've been good, isn't good.
Greens - we may as well all emigrate if they ever got into power. The country just wouldn't be safe and it's as simple as that. A million miles away from my vote because of that one issue.
UKIP - well they'll tackle immigration that's for sure. Quite how, who knows? And quite where there would take our country who knows? Lot's of unknown's, but action on immigration is very, very important. 250K net immigration per year, is way, WAY too many. A country needs it's own culture and identity, it's important for people to feel like they have a home, to feel that they belong and to take pride in where they live. Too much immigration erodes this because 'change' happens too fast and the population becomes restless and resentful. All the other parties ignore this at their peril, as has started to become apparent. I think UKIP will achieve between 15% and 20% of the vote but this will not transfer itself to 'seats'. However as that % grows then eventually marginal seats will topple, but UKIP is probably a good 8 years away from even becoming a 3rd party in terms of seats.
No point considering anyone else in a General IMO.
Cameron or Farage for me. We need a genuine third political party that the public can turn to when the top two aren't any good. When it comes to it, people tend to think about how comfortable they are 'currently' in their lives and the bottom line to that is that we live in a bloody good country, we're lucky to have 'free' healthcare, we're relatively safe from people who want to kill us and we generally have a much better standard of living than most humans on the planet. That's why I think Cameron will get in and will do so outright without having to form a coalition with anybody. Not sure yet if he's got my vote though.
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Post by shrewed46 on Feb 27, 2015 17:17:43 GMT 1
Tories - Cameron has done a good job to get the deficit down IMO. An absolute mess that should have been addressed by Labour but wasn't. Whilst under a Tory government there looks like there's more to come, we are not in the same boat as Greece, Italy, Portugal, Cyprus, Ireland and Spain. I dread to think of where we'd be if Labour had still been in government after the last election. Cameron wants to stay a nuclear power (great), I do feel he's genuine re:immigration, the NHS, benefits scroungers and education, although perhaps lacks the talent to see it through? Needs to be very careful that he doesn't let the rich/poor divide widen when we are in wealthier times. Established on the World stage, which is where I go next........
Unsurprisingly I disagree with much you have posted, but the part that made me laugh was "Established on the World Stage" where was Cameron when it came to negotiating with Putin - No where - Ignored. As I have posted before Cameron's Defence and Foreign policy is leaving Britain isolated.
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Post by atcham jack on Feb 27, 2015 17:19:57 GMT 1
in East Devon Foreign Office minister Tory Hugo Swire got 48.3% of the vote 5 years ago. in May he is under pressure from a Local Neighbour of mine , a Devon County councillor who is standing as an independent and in the betting she is ahead of lib, lab, ukip and the greens. stand by for a shock in East Devon.
I have been most disappointed with the Green party whose leader, an antopedian, Natalie Bennett has been taken apart by Andrew neil and London broadcasting co. we shall see how she fares in front of the public on radio's any questions tonight at 20.05 on radio 4
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Post by shrewder on Feb 27, 2015 17:32:15 GMT 1
in East Devon Foreign Office minister Tory Hugo Swire got 48.3% of the vote 5 years ago. in May he is under pressure from a Local Neighbour of mine , a Devon County councillor who is standing as an independent and in the betting she is ahead of lib, lab, ukip and the greens. stand by for a shock in East Devon. I have been most disappointed with the Green party whose leader, an antopedian, Natalie Bennett has been taken apart by Andrew neil and London broadcasting co. we shall see how she fares in front of the public on radio's any questions tonight at 20.05 on radio 4 To be honest I'm losing interest in the election already and as to what happens in East Devon, I couldn't give a tinkers cuss.
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Post by champagneprince on Feb 27, 2015 17:38:09 GMT 1
Tories - Cameron has done a good job to get the deficit down IMO. An absolute mess that should have been addressed by Labour but wasn't. Whilst under a Tory government there looks like there's more to come, we are not in the same boat as Greece, Italy, Portugal, Cyprus, Ireland and Spain. I dread to think of where we'd be if Labour had still been in government after the last election. Cameron wants to stay a nuclear power (great), I do feel he's genuine re:immigration, the NHS, benefits scroungers and education, although perhaps lacks the talent to see it through? Needs to be very careful that he doesn't let the rich/poor divide widen when we are in wealthier times. Established on the World stage, which is where I go next........
Unsurprisingly I disagree with much you have posted, but the part that made me laugh was "Established on the World Stage" where was Cameron when it came to negotiating with Putin - No where - Ignored. As I have posted before Cameron's Defence and Foreign policy is leaving Britain isolated.
I didn't say he was any good. I said he was 'established' i.e other leaders know who he is and how he works. Cameron may be the one Putin ignore's, but Miliband would be the one he'd take the p*ss out of behind his back.
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Post by shrewed46 on Feb 27, 2015 18:27:28 GMT 1
Unsurprisingly I disagree with much you have posted, but the part that made me laugh was "Established on the World Stage" where was Cameron when it came to negotiating with Putin - No where - Ignored. As I have posted before Cameron's Defence and Foreign policy is leaving Britain isolated.
I didn't say he was any good. I said he was 'established' i.e other leaders know who he is and how he works. Cameron may be the one Putin ignore's, but Miliband would be the one he'd take the p*ss out of behind his back.
Not sure that Putin reads the Murdoch press. I suspect that Cameron wasn't established in 2010. Leaders of the Opposition are rarely established on the world stage.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 18:49:53 GMT 1
It is such a shame you believe everything that Conservative Central Office says, just a couple of points that disproves your comments. Nicola Sturgeon is not a SNP candidate for the forth coming election so is extremely unlikely to be deputy prime minister when she is not in the commons. SNP are very unlikely to go into coalition with a party committed to retaining Trident. Much more worrying is the thought of Cameron teaming up with UKIP and the DUP. What surprises me most about your undying support for the Tories is that you are supporting a party that has decimated the military and overseen British international influence reduced to it's lowest in centuries. Ed, Please don't go second guessing what I do and don't believe. Fine Sturgeon might not be an MP, or standing for election, she is however still the party leader, and they will be massive in Scotland after may, and if its a hung parliament, the 40 or 50 seats that they have will be enough to get Ed licking his balls with excitement. She will hold a trump card, and be very effective.
I am not saying that the conservatives have been great, but they have done a half decent job, which is far better than Labour would do, yep, been mistakes. As we speak, its like the onset of piles, and we know its gonna hurt, but its just which method is gonna give the less pain. I cannot see an alternative to what we have without things getting worse.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 18:56:21 GMT 1
Like all things in life there are winners and losers.
So while those who have no need for the welfare state (apart from their pension, tax credits etc, but it’s not real welfare though is it?) may applaud cuts to budgets and services provided by LA’s those of ‘us’ who may rely on welfare are left to struggle and feel stigmatised by the narrative around ‘scroungers’.
Personally though I would like to thank the Government for the extra 90p a week my son receives in Disability Living Allowance, which will go long way to pay for the extras his requires for his individual needs.
Then of course there’s special education and the amount of young people who require one – to – one help and aren’t getting it, or the young people forced to travel over an hour to school because the LA will not pay for them to board. Try teaching a young person with SEN who has been sat in a taxi for over an hour.
Dunno, just something to think about when discussing deficit reduction.
I’ve said this before, but we are just an accident, redundancy, or an accident of birth away from the welfare state.
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Post by mattmw on Feb 27, 2015 20:01:33 GMT 1
Perhaps I'm getting a bit long in the tooth but I don't see the election this year as being that significant. I really don't go in for this idea it's the most important election in years that politicians have us believe
Over the last 35 years the level of GDP spent by governments has stayed at around the same levels, only really changing in times of significant growth or recession. We've basically had a slightly right of centre, government during that time.
Sure there has been a slight tinkering around the edges depending on whether Conservatives or Labour or in, but overall very little overall difference in policy
Same goes for this and next few elections. Whatever party, or combination of coalition governments we have GDP spend will stay the same. The real power lies in business and the international financial markets - really makes little difference who is in charge
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 20:17:25 GMT 1
Yep, basically this country has had centrist governments with either a slight tilt to the left or right since 1945.
Social Democracy is the closest this country has come to socialism, yet you’d think that there are reds under every bed, pathetic.
Suggest anything progressive or even radical and automatically you’re a tree hugging leftie. This is equally pathetic.
All we’ll have in May is another centrist government slightly tweaking age old policies. Tiresome.
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