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Post by southshropblue on Feb 23, 2011 17:33:40 GMT 1
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sssalop
Shropshire County League
Posts: 89
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Post by sssalop on Feb 23, 2011 17:57:57 GMT 1
Posted by hope2010 on Yesterday at 9:27am "At last we see the real face of the sons of Thatcher"
That'll be Blair and Brown then. The problem with clearing up their mess is its sheer scale and the fact that those responsible for doing the cutting are in many cases the managers who should be out the door. Hence the threats to remove frontline staff. Yes, those delegated by Cameron and Co to reduce spending look to be cutting too fast. But too far? Probably not, just in the wrong places.
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Post by stfcfan87 on Feb 23, 2011 18:17:10 GMT 1
Not quite sure what that proves either way. For example, they've picked out stroke data. Why just strokes? How is France for example doing with CHD? Heart attacks? Various cancers? Diabetes? etc It would have been far more accurate had they given a few indicators rather than just one. More importantly how does England's all age all cause mortality and life expectancy compare? And using all ages is a little misleading too, far more accurate to use under 75s - at the end of the day looking at all deaths mean your including the very old - and that's slightly wrong as the facts are your going to die of something. Also they're looking at cancer survival at 5 years based on 2004 figures. Ok that's one thing, but by very definition that means any changes made in the last 5 years won't be reflected yet, so it is just about possible that the changes needed have already been made! And no mention of previous years either, is this a broad trend or is it a one off? And has the gap closed or widened from previous years.....see there's so many questions that could be asked.
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Post by WindsorShrew on Feb 23, 2011 19:06:50 GMT 1
Interesting articles on Radio Salop today with some very highly placed people advocating the moving of the Maternity Units to PRH. Not as a part of cuts as such but in their words to improve services.
I think they also stated that the Pediatric Unit may also move to Telford.
Is the issue separate from the cuts ? I believe so listening to the explanations given today.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Feb 23, 2011 19:31:21 GMT 1
For example, they've picked out stroke data. Why just strokes? How is France for example doing with CHD? Heart attacks? It would have been far more accurate had they given a few indicators rather than just one. More importantly how does England's all age all cause mortality and life expectancy compare? A few weeks ago the PM sought to justify NHS reform by quoting the 'fact' that France had fewer deaths from heart disease than England. This was investigated by the statisticians of the Open University/BBC programme 'More Or Less'. They found that the life expectancy of French and English adults was more or less the same, so if we are bad at treating heart disease then we must be better than the French at treating other diseases. Digging deeper they found that English doctors usually quote heart disease as the cause of sudden death in the case of any patients who had high blood pressure, angina etc whereas French doctors quote 'unknown cause'. All this shows is that you can't trust any stats quoted by politicians. My belief is that all big organisations are inefficient, the tricky thing is identifying which parts are really unnecessary - something blanket cuts will not do. The sensible thing would be to run pilot schemes and assess the outcomes before imposing the reforms across the board.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2011 20:01:44 GMT 1
Is the issue separate from the cuts ? I believe so listening to the explanations given today. i would agree since the location of county services has been a topic of debate since before the PRH was even opened.
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Post by mattmw on Feb 23, 2011 20:11:55 GMT 1
Is the issue separate from the cuts ? I believe so listening to the explanations given today. i would agree since the location of county services has been a topic of debate since before the PRH was even opened. Been to a couple of the consultation events about the proposed changes to health care in the county and would agree it's not really about the government cut backs The basis of it seems to be that for certain forms of specialist medical care you need small specialist units served by top notch staff. As Shropshire and telford and Wrekin is a pretty low population area there isn't the numbers of people to have all these specialist staff in both hospitals so splitting them across sites is the best way of maintaining such services in the area You could argue that without spending cuts the NHS might pay for services at both sites but its probably unlikely as the Shrewsbury site needs a big upgrade to it's buildings
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Post by SeanBroseley on Feb 24, 2011 9:05:52 GMT 1
No, bandied about comments are not necessarily untrue, but lets pause for a moment and test them, and where the proposed changes are as radical as these seem to be then that testing is even more important. Let's have a look at what France are doing with their health service too.
More or Less is an excellent radio programme.
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poirot
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 243
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Post by poirot on Feb 24, 2011 10:38:13 GMT 1
The sensible thing would be to run pilot schemes and assess the outcomes before imposing the reforms across the board. Now that's the point isn't it. Of course pilot progrmmes would be the logical first step when considering such massive and wide ranging changes, That is, though, if the changes were being considerd for reasons of economics and/or efficiency. Unfortunately, when the root cause is idealogical, then pilots just get in the way, slow things down and might, just might, prove the contrary to what the instigators want. Sad really that fanatisism and self interest distort common sence.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Feb 24, 2011 11:33:03 GMT 1
Money is tight. RBS has announced an annual loss in 2010 almost of the magnitude of its bonuses. Carrying forward losses means that it will be sometime before it contributes to tax revenues beyond employer and employee NIC and employee income tax. Which is the way taxation on international businesses based in this country is going anyway.
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