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Post by shrewder on Jan 25, 2011 19:40:18 GMT 1
Correct decision.
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Post by shrewsace on Jan 25, 2011 19:42:12 GMT 1
Some are suggesting that Gray has been set up due to his legal action against the News of the World for alleged phone hacking.
As somone put it on the Guardian website
On the one hand; Andy Gray is clearly a sexist div. On the other hand; Andy Gray has clearly been fired by an arm of News International, because he is sueing another arm of News International. No, thats not quite true either, Andy Gray appears to have been deliberately set up by his own employer via a Sky open mic because he is sueing another arm of News International. Now that's some real bad s**t right there.
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Post by JohnG on Jan 25, 2011 22:11:08 GMT 1
No arguments for Gray losing his job.
He has become 'mr know it all, I am always right' on Sky. The amount of times he berates and moans at refereeing decisions is ridiculous, even when they are correct!!
A good opportunity for Sky to freshen things up.
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Post by mikeinsheff2 on Jan 25, 2011 22:31:24 GMT 1
Bring back rodney Marsh!! Absolute di ck who made the most reprehensible comments about Shrewsbury Town FC. Sky Sports is very blokey. Soccer AM is very teenage boy / laddish / sexist dad-orientated and it seems to be Sky`s flagship programme so WTF!?!?!
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Post by Hughesabio on Jan 25, 2011 23:17:00 GMT 1
Looks like Richard Keys might be losing his job as well, funny how all these videos are surfacing now
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Post by Namur on Jan 25, 2011 23:44:33 GMT 1
No arguments for Gray losing his job. He has become 'mr know it all, I am always right' on Sky. The amount of times he berates and moans at refereeing decisions is ridiculous, even when they are correct!! A good opportunity for Sky to freshen things up. Agreed - would be good to have a freshen up, too often it seems a case of jobs for the boys - Dean Windass, Paul Merson for example. Could we be seeing Simmo heading to the Sky Sports Managers Retirement Home soon??
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Post by venceremos on Jan 26, 2011 2:21:54 GMT 1
Catching up on today's UK news, it seems that the Gray storm is a diversionary tactic from the Tory establishment to bury the bad economic news. Negative economic growth in the last 3 months. You mean like Johnson resigning the eye off Blair being called back to answer his previous lies last week. Wrong day, Johnson went the day before. The government tried to hide Andy Coulson's resignation on the day Blair gave evidence. Didn't work because it's a bigger story.
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Post by Pilch on Jan 26, 2011 2:43:24 GMT 1
Bring back rodney Marsh!! Absolute cu nt who made the most reprehensible comments about Shrewsbury Town FC. Sky Sports is very blokey. Soccer AM is very teenage boy / laddish / sexist dad-orientated and it seems to be Sky`s flagship programme so WTF!?!?! Contradiction of the year I know many women who would be quite upset at your choice of language anyone who goes out of there way to use the c word needs to examine themselves a bit closer
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Post by quinnster on Jan 26, 2011 4:40:49 GMT 1
Its Sky running scared of their sponsors, ie their public image. Any corporation these days would do the same. Employees of any rank will be sacrificed to save the face of the Company because its the dosh that counts. happens all the time in politics too. A total over reaction, but a sign of the times where humanity and character or whatever has no place in the modern world.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2011 7:53:27 GMT 1
Political correctness gone off its lady fun bags
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2011 11:26:09 GMT 1
I can't believe Richard Keys has got away with what he said - unless he was the " plant" to get Gray to make the comments in a plan by Sky to get Gray out without having to sack him and pay his contract up
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Jan 26, 2011 11:37:37 GMT 1
There is a new vid of Keys been released today.... asking someone "would you smash that?"
More legs in this story??
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jan 26, 2011 11:39:15 GMT 1
Looks like Richard Keys might be losing his job as well, funny how all these videos are surfacing now Indeed. Some folk are linking Gray's dismissal to the News of the World phone tapping allegations, I think Gray is a part of that. Could also be of course that the pair of them aren't the nicest blokes to work with and colleagues are making sure they are set to go by releasing all this footage...
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Jan 26, 2011 11:51:32 GMT 1
With all the vids that have been leaked, there is no doubt that they dont have many mates at sky do they!
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Post by champagneprince on Jan 26, 2011 14:11:27 GMT 1
If Gray has been sacked by his employer for sexism, then we might all be getting the push next week once companies review their 'sexism' policy. That's both men and women included. All that will be left will be the HR Managers !
A colleague of mine told me a story of how his former boss (a woman) had a made a comment of 'we all know that men can't multi task' which he laughed off as male/female banter. Sometime later he went for an internal promotion and the interview panel was made up of women including the aforementioned boss.
He didn't get the job.
He said it had always stuck in his mind as to whether he should have complained about the 'multi-task' comment.
I thought that was a good example as to how we all may have said things that could be regarded as sexist and on that basis I think Gray should have kept his job.
Let's not forget as well that our entire 'constitution' is based on sexism. Male heirs to the throne come first, the females get pushed to the back ! It seems hypocritical to me to be so hard line on sexism when our very monarchy is exactly that !
Therefore, it surely can't be sexism that has got Gray the push. There must be more and that does make it a newsworthy story (although probably not front page, unless it does question our monarchy etc)
The case with the presenter where he asks her to 'tuck him in' is different. That could be regarded as sexual harrassment depending on his previous behaviour with her. For example if she has told him about his lude behaviour in the past and he has continued, then this could be seen as sexual harrassment (but not sexism)
Another reason he could be sacked is for 'incompetence'. His comments regarding the official WERE incompetent. How can a commentator of 20+ years experience make such a comment ? In banter maybe, but that didn't sound like banter to me. However, Keys was doing the same, so if Gray goes then Keys must go as well, dependent of course on whether this was a disciplinary offence based on previous warnings or just a straight sacking.
So was he sacked for sexism, sexual harrassment or incompetence ? It's going to be interesting to see how this develops as it may well open a huge can of worms that probably should of been opened a long time ago.
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Post by stfcfan87 on Jan 26, 2011 14:27:16 GMT 1
If Gray has been sacked by his employer for sexism, then we might all be getting the push next week once companies review their 'sexism' policy. That's both men and women included. All that will be left will be the HR Managers ! A colleague of mine told me a story of how his former boss (a woman) had a made a comment of 'we all know that men can't multi task' which he laughed off as male/female banter. Sometime later he went for an internal promotion and the interview panel was made up of women including the aforementioned boss. He didn't get the job. He said it had always stuck in his mind as to whether he should have complained about the 'multi-task' comment. I thought that was a good example as to how we all may have said things that could be regarded as sexist and on that basis I think Gray should have kept his job. Let's not forget as well that our entire 'constitution' is based on sexism. Male heirs to the throne come first, the females get pushed to the back ! It seems hypocritical to me to be so hard line on sexism when our very monarchy is exactly that ! Therefore, it surely can't be sexism that has got Gray the push. There must be more and that does make it a newsworthy story (although probably not front page, unless it does question our monarchy etc) The case with the presenter where he asks her to 'tuck him in' is different. That could be regarded as sexual harrassment depending on his previous behaviour with her. For example if she has told him about his lude behaviour in the past and he has continued, then this could be seen as sexual harrassment (but not sexism) Another reason he could be sacked is for 'incompetence'. His comments regarding the official WERE incompetent. How can a commentator of 20+ years experience make such a comment ? In banter maybe, but that didn't sound like banter to me. However, Keys was doing the same, so if Gray goes then Keys must go as well, dependent of course on whether this was a disciplinary offence based on previous warnings or just a straight sacking. So was he sacked for sexism, sexual harrassment or incompetence ? It's going to be interesting to see how this develops as it may well open a huge can of worms that probably should of been opened a long time ago. Some good points - I do wonder how this stacks up with employment law - for starters he got his warning after comments made on saturday, and yet has now been sacked for 'comments' that sky obviously knew about that pre-dated the original comments and the warning. Surely in a disciplinary sense the warning is that if you do the same again you would get sacked?! The other point that needs to be made, is that I've not heard anywhere that either the lineswoman in the original case, or the fellow presenter he's apparently upset, has complained about it. Nice to see that all of these morally upstanding people and journalists have thought so much about the writes of those two individuals that they've not even bothered to ask for their opinions. As it is, the lineswoman's career has already been damaged by this story as she was removed from the match last night
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Jan 26, 2011 15:10:32 GMT 1
If anyone wants a great example of sexism on TV... just watch loose women....
From what my wife tells me, some of the stuff on there is boarderline sexual harrasment...
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Post by champagneprince on Jan 26, 2011 15:12:35 GMT 1
Some good points - I do wonder how this stacks up with employment law - for starters he got his warning after comments made on saturday, and yet has now been sacked for 'comments' that sky obviously knew about that pre-dated the original comments and the warning. Surely in a disciplinary sense the warning is that if you do the same again you would get sacked?! It depends exactly what the sacking was for. The two incidents are unrelated IMO, one is about sexism (lineswoman), one is possibly about sexual harrassment (Charlotte) If he has been sacked for sexism, then we may all be getting the sack soon ! If he has been sacked for sexually harrassing Charlotte then that would all depend on whether she was unhappy about it or had warned him in the past. But if she went along with the banter or said similar things to him then that makes 'sexual harrassment' difficult to prove. If he has been sacked for making lewd comments to Charlotte then anyone else who has made lewd comments to another person should be sacked too otherwise that could be seen as victimisation (i think) If he has been sacked for incompetence (lineswoman comment) then that's fair enough, if this is highlighted under gross misconduct in his contract. In this case you would assume Keys would have to go as well The other point that needs to be made, is that I've not heard anywhere that either the lineswoman in the original case, or the fellow presenter he's apparently upset, has complained about it. Nice to see that all of these morally upstanding people and journalists have thought so much about the writes of those two individuals that they've not even bothered to ask for their opinions. As it is, the lineswoman's career has already been damaged by this story as she was removed from the match last night I suspect they will have their say soon enough. I would guess the lineswoman would be p**sed off about it. After all she's got all the quals, proved her competence and ended up running the line at probably the greatest football league in the world. That must mean she's pretty good at what she does and equally as able as any bloke. Grays and Keys comments show incompetence on massive scale. As for Charlotte well it all depends on how much s**t she has to put up with from Gray (and possibly a whole load of others) in the past. Was this the culture at Sky Sports ? Did everyone know it was going on but turned a blind eye to it ? As for Andy Gray, well he's shown incompetence (as has Keys), but sacking him for sexism is sheer hypocrisy in my view. This case is going to drag on a while I suspect. Sundays newspapers will be nailing Andy Gray to the wall ('sexist' Andy Gray ? ) and then will get behind him once he gives them an exclusive (probably The Mirror)
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Post by champagneprince on Jan 26, 2011 15:20:48 GMT 1
If anyone wants a great example of sexism on TV... just watch loose women.... From what my wife tells me, some of the stuff on there is boarderline sexual harrasment... Spot on, and many, many other programmes too. It all depends on where we want to head as far as where we draw the line. I just hate the hypocrisy of it all. You can't breathe in this country any more without offending somebody and yet really everyone is basically the same. Gray and Keys were incompetent with their views and sexist yes (if we all want to go down that route). But if we do then let's take a look at ourselves first.
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Post by stfcfan87 on Jan 26, 2011 15:43:43 GMT 1
The other point that needs to be made, is that I've not heard anywhere that either the lineswoman in the original case, or the fellow presenter he's apparently upset, has complained about it. Nice to see that all of these morally upstanding people and journalists have thought so much about the writes of those two individuals that they've not even bothered to ask for their opinions. As it is, the lineswoman's career has already been damaged by this story as she was removed from the match last night I suspect they will have their say soon enough. I would guess the lineswoman would be p**sed off about it. After all she's got all the quals, proved her competence and ended up running the line at probably the greatest football league in the world. That must mean she's pretty good at what she does and equally as able as any bloke. Grays and Keys comments show incompetence on massive scale. As for Charlotte well it all depends on how much s**t she has to put up with from Gray (and possibly a whole load of others) in the past. Was this the culture at Sky Sports ? Did everyone know it was going on but turned a blind eye to it ? As for Andy Gray, well he's shown incompetence (as has Keys), but sacking him for sexism is sheer hypocrisy in my view. This case is going to drag on a while I suspect. Sundays newspapers will be nailing Andy Gray to the wall ('sexist' Andy Gray ? ) and then will get behind him once he gives them an exclusive (probably The Mirror) [/quote] This is what I mean though, the lineswoman hasn't complained from what I've heard, the initial thing wasn't widely reported, and then since every tom, dick and harry, aswell as all the media outlets have jumped on the bandwagon this has basically led to her being pulled out of the match - it wasn't the comments themselves, its all the reporting and commenting that's gone on that has damaged her career. The very people who are protesting about women's rights have actually damaged her! And quite possibly this Charlotte too. And on that subject, I do wonder if the tapes of that particular conversation had a comment from her after - or even before Gray's comment - but asking that, doesn't suit people's agenda. I think the other annoying thing about this whole thing is the comments from people going 'good, he was rubbish anyway' which is a completely different debate!
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Post by champagneprince on Jan 26, 2011 16:04:55 GMT 1
This is what I mean though, the lineswoman hasn't complained from what I've heard, the initial thing wasn't widely reported, and then since every tom, dick and harry, aswell as all the media outlets have jumped on the bandwagon this has basically led to her being pulled out of the match - it wasn't the comments themselves, its all the reporting and commenting that's gone on that has damaged her career. The very people who are protesting about women's rights have actually damaged her! Sounds about spot on in the short term. In the long term it may have projected her into career heaven. And on that subject, I do wonder if the tapes of that particular conversation had a comment from her after - or even before Gray's comment - but asking that, doesn't suit people's agenda. It sounds like she can only do two things here. Defend him or kill him. She's in a very difficult place unless she has complained in the past about his behaviour, in which case she's going to kill him ! I think the other annoying thing about this whole thing is the comments from people going 'good, he was rubbish anyway' which is a completely different debate! Too right. He's been part of Sky for 20 years now, he's been at the forefront of what made it so successful. Anybody who has bought a Sky Sports package has done so knowing that Gray is their principal match pundit. If they never liked him why didn't they just save their extra £20 a month and watch Garth Crooks on the BBC instead ?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2011 16:09:20 GMT 1
hmmm - Charlotte -- would you
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jan 26, 2011 16:23:44 GMT 1
Too right. He's been part of Sky for 20 years now, he's been at the forefront of what made it so successful. Anybody who has bought a Sky Sports package has done so knowing that Gray is their principal match pundit. If they never liked him why didn't they just save their extra £20 a month and watch Garth Crooks on the BBC instead ? Nonsense! As I've stated on here several times, I watch all televised football with the sound muted and I never listen pre match or half time punditry. If someone offered games with crowd noise only I would subscribe immediately.
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Post by Pilch on Jan 26, 2011 16:58:08 GMT 1
Too right. He's been part of Sky for 20 years now, he's been at the forefront of what made it so successful. Anybody who has bought a Sky Sports package has done so knowing that Gray is their principal match pundit. If they never liked him why didn't they just save their extra £20 a month and watch Garth Crooks on the BBC instead ? Nonsense! As I've stated on here several times, I watch all televised football with the sound muted and I never listen pre match or half time punditry. If someone offered games with crowd noise only I would subscribe immediately. im sure someone did that once, it was a bit weird but at times id join you yes
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jan 26, 2011 17:57:55 GMT 1
Too right. He's been part of Sky for 20 years now, he's been at the forefront of what made it so successful. Anybody who has bought a Sky Sports package has done so knowing that Gray is their principal match pundit. If they never liked him why didn't they just save their extra £20 a month and watch Garth Crooks on the BBC instead ? I think folk pay the money so they can watch the football live. I don't think its because Gray is employed by them. I couldn't give a give a hoot whether its Andy Gray, doesn't matter at all. I try and avoid as much of the build up and anything else Sky put up together around the game as I can. Some of the stuff they put together is cringeworthy, truly awful. Those toys that Gray plays around with, what's all that about. Some of the build up just has you wondering what they are on. I recall they had Ferguson and Wenger superimposed on pirates the one time, each sailing their ship taking pot shots at each other. Its all razzmatazz, Americanised and for wont of a better word, rubbish. I am there to watch the football, I'm there sat watching it...so why they see a need to jazz it all up with all that daft stuff I have no idea... Give me the Beeb every day of the week if they had as many live games showing...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2011 20:13:13 GMT 1
Richard Keys has now resigned.
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