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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2010 17:25:02 GMT 1
Please take a minute to write to your PM about the "Safe Standing Bill" which is currently going through Parliment. Link------> More Info Link------> Write to your MP
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Post by shrewder on Dec 12, 2010 19:49:02 GMT 1
Please take a minute to consider those that cannot stand, who under the old arrangements struggled to get a ticket for a seat which was limited in availablilty. It is one of the reaons why gates have gone up for clubs like Shrewsbury when they moved to an all seater stadium. Yes ok bring back standing but you will lose a large number of supporters such as myself.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2010 19:58:35 GMT 1
Please take a minute to consider those that cannot stand, who under the old arrangements struggled to get a ticket for a seat which was limited in availablilty. It is one of the reaons why gates have gone up for clubs like Shrewsbury when they moved to an all seater stadium. Yes ok bring back standing but you will lose a large number of supporters such as myself. I dont think anyone is suggesting getting rid of seats completely. It would be nice to be treated like adults and have the choice. As for "one of the reaons why gates have gone up for clubs like Shrewsbury", thats extremely debatable. Yes crowds have gone up but is that because people get a seat or because they can watch football and have decent facilities? And of course there are plenty of people who have stopped going because they dont want to have to watch football sitting down in a sterile environment. Thats not exclusive to STFC, but right across Britain as the new grounds have increased.
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Post by WindsorShrew on Dec 12, 2010 20:00:17 GMT 1
Whilst there will be those who enjoy standing, I feel that in terms of cost it would be a no go at Salop.
Further to that where would the standing area go ?
Finally I believe seats play a part in the reduction trouble.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Dec 12, 2010 20:03:31 GMT 1
Please take a minute to consider those that cannot stand, who under the old arrangements struggled to get a ticket for a seat which was limited in availablilty. It is one of the reaons why gates have gone up for clubs like Shrewsbury when they moved to an all seater stadium. Yes ok bring back standing but you will lose a large number of supporters such as myself. I dont think anyone is suggesting getting rid of seats completely. It would be nice to be treated like adults and have the choice. As for "one of the reaons why gates have gone up for clubs like Shrewsbury", thats extremely debatable. Yes crowds have gone up but is that because people get a seat or because they can watch football and have decent facilities? And of course there are plenty of people who have stopped going because they dont want to have to watch football sitting down in a sterile environment. Thats not exclusive to STFC, but right across Britain as the new grounds have increased. Good post - I'm one of those who stopped going as there was no option to stand up any more. Bring back standing and I'm sure I would give it a go again, until then I'll save my money thanks (not that I really expect the club to listen much to the likes of me)
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Dec 12, 2010 20:03:51 GMT 1
No reason why you cant have safe standing though. German games are sold out week in, week out with plenty of standing room available... By the by, Id say Town have higher gates because of the new stadium and not because its all seater. If one of the stands behind the goal were standing I suspect the gates would even be higher...
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Dec 12, 2010 20:05:24 GMT 1
Finally I believe seats play a part in the reduction trouble. Hereford? Port Vale? Birminghan v Villa? If folks want to cause trouble they will whether they are standing or seated.
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Post by WindsorShrew on Dec 12, 2010 20:20:40 GMT 1
Thats not what I said.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2010 20:23:29 GMT 1
Please take a minute to consider those that cannot stand such as myself. The idea is not to get rid of seating, only to give back the option of standing or seating to fans. Suppose a safe standing area was put in, for example: The South stand or block 15, the vast majority of fans from block 19 would move there, therefore they would be further from away fans, reducing trouble. It would be a mistake to put it in the "trouble spot" in block 19 though. Some point I raised in my letter: - 9 out of 10 football fans would like the option to stand available to them so...
- The government would gain (some) popularity if they allow "safe standing" areas.
- David Cameron want's to find out what makes us happy; for a lot of people it's simply to stand up at football matches as they would at the races or cricket.
- The success that has been had in Germany with similar legislation to what has been proposed for here.
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Post by shrewder on Dec 13, 2010 8:01:12 GMT 1
I am not objecting to standing being brought back providing supporters such as myself do not miss out on getting into the ground because the number of seats are reduced. If that happens then it would be a backward step.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2010 9:04:12 GMT 1
Never mind standing, there should be much more rigorous enforcement to prohibit standing in seated areas.It is fine to stand up for a few moments for goal celebrations etc. The trouble v Hereford could have been avoided for a start.
I am cheesed off when going to an away game in an all seated section. I usually arrive early, pick my seat and then some selfish numpties come along and stand up in front of me for the whole game.
Facts would tend to suggest that standing actually reduces capacity, for example the reduced allocation of tickets for Man Utd supporters at Wigan when they insist on standing.
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Post by Pilch on Dec 13, 2010 10:49:39 GMT 1
Would the club consider spending thousands to adapt perfectly good if somewhat dirty seating into an area for standing and presumably cause pricing problems All this when fans currently pay full price and stand anyway I thinks not
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Post by shrew4life on Dec 14, 2010 0:27:56 GMT 1
Never mind standing, there should be much more rigorous enforcement to prohibit standing in seated areas.It is fine to stand up for a few moments for goal celebrations etc. The trouble v Hereford could have been avoided for a start. I am cheesed off when going to an away game in an all seated section. I usually arrive early, pick my seat and then some selfish numpties come along and stand up in front of me for the whole game. Facts would tend to suggest that standing actually reduces capacity, for example the reduced allocation of tickets for Man Utd supporters at Wigan when they insist on standing. If you don't like it then don't sit where you know standing will take place. I bet your the type of person to sit near the back at an away game where standing and singing takes place and then complains, forcing people around you to sit down thus killing the atmosphere.
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Post by bobbyc on Dec 14, 2010 0:58:11 GMT 1
jeez all these naysayers who haven't even bothered to read the actual proposals...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2010 12:25:53 GMT 1
I don't there's ever been a game at the Greenhous Meadow with less than 1000 spare seats? So I don't anyone would miss out. Correct me if I'm wrong.
The club wouldn't need to rip up seats, all that would be needed would be a designated "standing section" where fans would be allowed to stand up as much as they wanted during the game. To reduce trouble this could be put as far away from away fans as possible whilst maintaining the "side on view" which stopped people moving to the South stand. Surely blocks 14 and 15 would be perfect for this?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2010 13:26:34 GMT 1
Never mind standing, there should be much more rigorous enforcement to prohibit standing in seated areas.It is fine to stand up for a few moments for goal celebrations etc. The trouble v Hereford could have been avoided for a start. I am cheesed off when going to an away game in an all seated section. I usually arrive early, pick my seat and then some selfish numpties come along and stand up in front of me for the whole game. Facts would tend to suggest that standing actually reduces capacity, for example the reduced allocation of tickets for Man Utd supporters at Wigan when they insist on standing. If you don't like it then don't sit where you know standing will take place. I bet your the type of person to sit near the back at an away game where standing and singing takes place and then complains, forcing people around you to sit down thus killing the atmosphere. [img src="http://www.shropshire.btinternet.co.uk/smiley/ www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/mad/mad0223.gif"].gif [/img][/quote] I do sit near the back, as is my right, but never on the rear few rows. I do not, though, expect other people to come in after me and stand up. I would expect them as common courtesy to sit down or ask if I minded that they stood up. I would not dream of telling people to sit down because I know that they are the kind of people who would give me a stream of invective (or, as at Chesterfield, charge to the front like headless chickens. These are the very people who should be prohibited from standing) All I ever ask is commonn decency which from your comment appears to be sadly lacking.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2010 13:42:39 GMT 1
If you don't like it then don't sit where you know standing will take place. I bet your the type of person to sit near the back at an away game where standing and singing takes place and then complains, forcing people around you to sit down thus killing the atmosphere. [img src="http://www.shropshire.btinternet.co.uk/smiley/ www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/mad/mad0223.gif"].gif [/img][/quote] I do sit near the back, as is my right, but never on the rear few rows. I do not, though, expect other people to come in after me and stand up. I would expect them as common courtesy to sit down or ask if I minded that they stood up. I would not dream of telling people to sit down because I know that they are the kind of people who would give me a stream of invective (or, as at Chesterfield, charge to the front like headless chickens. These are the very people who should be prohibited from standing) All I ever ask is commonn decency which from your comment appears to be sadly lacking.[/quote] I think this proves exactly why a designated standing block or two is needed.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2010 13:50:48 GMT 1
People like Wookeywombat are the reason that I stopped regularly going to watch STFC. If you want to remain seated like a lemon (as is your right), you should position yourself accordingly as should those that wish to stand and sing.
I remember going to Bradford a couple of seasons ago and standing on the first row from the back. I was expecting a good match and a decent atmosphere, such was the occasion. However, 30 seconds after kick-off I received a tap on the shoulder from a middle-aged man who politely asked me to sit down. This selfish individual had - alongside his two young children - sat on the very back row and clearly had no intention of standing and vocally supporting his side. I complied with the gentleman's request and promptly sat down, although I couldn't help but feel annoyed. If you're reading this: cheers mate, you ruined my matchday experience. What a gobs**te.
Thank god that some football supporters still want to create an atmosphere and aren't content with sitting down in silence.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2010 14:07:38 GMT 1
And that some are standing up and fighting for their desire. Come on owd lad - get involved in the movement and make a difference.
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Post by scooter on Dec 14, 2010 14:20:33 GMT 1
There are 2 different issues on his thread and they are getting confused
I am in favour of safe standing areas, and it could be good for new grounds, if they are built with this in mind
Redesigning our ground to accommodate this now would be a very different story. Just standing in a seated area is not the same as safe standing, and I can not agree with justingill - I think that even if standing was allowed in the South stand or block 14, most of the people in block 19 would still go there
Look at our last couple of visits to Wrexham - their fans had the best standing area left in the league, but chose to sit as close to the away fans as possible
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2010 14:31:54 GMT 1
I think the capacity of an seating area would have to be reduced by about a quarter if people are to be allowed to stand all match in it safely There would also have be an incentive to move there, or a zero tolerance approach taken to standing for prolonged areas in other areas of the stadium. It was interesting at the Gay Meadow how everybody congregated in the middle of the stand and the area closest to the way fans was always empty, perhaps due to improved segregation.
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Post by amershamdave on Dec 14, 2010 14:37:06 GMT 1
Hi to you all. I'm an Oxford United fan. We too want to have standing at our ground. A group of us are having a meeting with our chairman in January, to discuss the possibility of making a part (or parts) of our ground available to people who want to stand and support their team.
On a seperate matter; this Saturday, just before our game with you, we are meeting a family from Accrington, on the side of the pitch (you'll hear us over the PA system) back in August, I was looking at the Accrington Stanley website, when I came accross a story of a little girl who has got a terminal disease (only 50 people in the world have it). When Accrington played Newcastle, in the league cup, they raised £1200 during the match, to go towards a fund set up, to give the girl and her family a holiday to remember. I suggested that our fans could help and, with the help of Port Vale fans, Northampton, Stockport and Aldershot fans, we raised £4000! They are coming down to say thank you. The little girl is only three and is a little bit scared of loud noises, so we are going to keep the noise down, whilst she out on the pitch. (She'll be in a sound-proofed box during the game) If you good people go on the Yellows forum and look down the 'Matches' section, scroll down to Tess Sullivan and you can read this amazing story. Or just put Tess Sullivan in google.
Us footy fans ain't all bad, you know!
Dave Cudd (Cuddy)
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Post by Pilch on Dec 14, 2010 16:09:52 GMT 1
this certainly wouldnt work in block 19
you dont have to be an idiot to sit/stand in block 19 but if you are thats where you go ( i think its compulsory)
i dont sit with them and i dont really want to be standing with them, it really is embarrassing when some run to the front when an away fan so much as farts i think a standing area in 19 would only make matters worse
in theory i think it would be good in one end of the south stand it may even attract some of those from 19 who get drawn into trouble
*apologies to the decent fans who use 19 i know there are quite a few
it would be nice to know what stfc's opinion was on this matter i mean if they came forward and said if its ok we'd immediately convert block 8, 19 ,13 etc
at least i'd know wether to back or oppose the proposal
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2010 16:35:20 GMT 1
People like Wookeywombat are the reason that I stopped regularly going to watch STFC. If you want to remain seated like a lemon (as is your right), you should position yourself accordingly as should those that wish to stand and sing. I remember going to Bradford a couple of seasons ago and standing on the first row from the back. I was expecting a good match and a decent atmosphere, such was the occasion. However, 30 seconds after kick-off I received a tap on the shoulder from a middle-aged man who politely asked me to sit down. This selfish individual had - alongside his two young children - sat on the very back row and clearly had no intention of standing and vocally supporting his side. I complied with the gentleman's request and promptly sat down, although I couldn't help but feel annoyed. If you're reading this: cheers mate, you ruined my matchday experience. What a gobs**te. Thank god that some football supporters still want to create an atmosphere and aren't content with sitting down in silence. This reply beggars belief. I will repeat that I do not sit on the back row. A minority of supporters want to stand at away matches(strictly speaking illegally) and invariably all away support, these days, is confined in one seated area-young and old. The standing few should bow to the wish of the majority or instead of positioning themselves directly behind the goal, move to be close to and goad the opposition fans as do those in block 19. As to calling the gentleman at Bradford names and calling HIM selfish, STFC are better off without your support, which causes people with younger children, as at Chesterfield, to walk out. For every few extra supporters gained by standing areas, there will be many more put off by being in their close proximity.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2010 18:08:44 GMT 1
The point is, people that want to stand up can do so:
a) Legally (through the bill in parliment) b) Safely (by ensuring there is no overcrowding in standing areas) c) Without causing trouble (by creating a standing block far from the away fans) d) Without ruining others enjoyment of the match (as in wookeywombat's case)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2010 19:21:27 GMT 1
For every few extra supporters gained by standing areas, there will be many more put off by being in their close proximity. Anything to back that up? I personally know quite a few people who have stopped going because of having to sit down but dont know anyone who has started going because there is not a terrace. Im not doubting that there will be people who prefer to sit down but I cant believe that being in a all seater stadium would be a main reason for starting to go to football. Take away seats completely Id fully expect some people to stop going, but having a combination of terraces and seating, I really cant understand why that would stop anyone going. It will never happen but if a terrace was ever introduced then it would have to be the South Stand. Just a single block or two, it would look very, very tinpot.
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Post by WindsorShrew on Dec 14, 2010 19:34:51 GMT 1
Heres one for you...to convert any area of The Greengas Meadow to standing would invlve far more than just removing seats.
The Concrete steps are far to steep to comply with any Health and Safety legislation. Thus STFC would have major building works to achieve an area to safely host standing.
Thankfully it will not happen at Salop.
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Post by shrewder on Dec 14, 2010 19:47:57 GMT 1
Dr Crippen - You very insulting to those that cannot stand saying " if you choose to sit there like a lemon". I recognise yes you want to stand but at present it is an all seater stadium and whereever people sit that are unable to stand, unless they sit at the very front they are always in danger of their view being blocked. Also consider small children who will not see anything if an adult is standing in front of them.
I cannot stand at matches and if people like you have their way then you are excluding all others like me. One day you may be in the position when you are not able to stand at games, perhaps then you will have a mor balanced view on the subject.
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Post by capitalsalopian on Dec 14, 2010 19:55:24 GMT 1
I like to stand at games but our ground was built and safety licence etc given as an all seater stadium. money to convert a safe standing area and follow our ambitions get to championship and having to put them all back in? i think that seating is fine and people have rose tinted specs on to the goodol' terraces being better for atmosphere. i think atmosphere is created or not by the people in there. like it or not the hereford game had some atmosphere. cheltenham certainly not.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Dec 14, 2010 20:23:10 GMT 1
I do not think anyone thinks this will have any impact on Town do they? I think one or two football stadiums may look to change but was the funding we got to build the new stadium based on it being all seater. I doubt any chairman is going to hand that back and spend additional funds on getting a stand standing. I think Town will never change. Other stadiums, who knows...
And whilst its clear that Crippin might well need to go out and get a little bit he does make a valid point. Folk mention common courtesy about standing up around other folk but surely its just common sense for the folk who want to stand to do so at the back. Thats clearly the best solution. I do think its off if folk go to the back of the stand they expect everyone around them to sit. Yes its the rules, yeah it shouldnt be allowed but I think you have to find some common ground. I think folk going to the back of a stand where its expected folk would wish to stand and ask others to sit throughout is a tad rum to be honest. Where else would they go, the front of the stand? The middle?
Its just something I wouldnt look to do meself...
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