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Post by SteveHayesFanClub on Dec 3, 2010 9:49:30 GMT 1
In the circles of both FIFA and UEFA England just isnt liked. Real Madrid fans can goose step their way round whilst in the ground...£20 fine and bugger all happened to Spain after the treatment dished out to England players whilst in the friendly a few years ago.
As for the 2022 World Cup destination....good luck to FIFA and selling that one to Budweiser. Dont expect the female Brazilian fans to be in their usual skimpy outfits...50 degree heat...guess they be playing the games in quarters rather than half so the players can all be attached to hospital drips
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Post by shrewder on Dec 3, 2010 9:53:11 GMT 1
The only thing you can say, is that with football being such a major sport in so many countries, that it perhaps hosting it should be shared around. If a country has hosted it once then they should consider themselves privledged. That is not to say that yesterday's fiasco was fair.
Perhaps it would be better if FIFA was more open and and upfront and said they favoured countries who had never hosted the World Cup before.
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Dec 3, 2010 10:35:25 GMT 1
As im as boggled as most about teh Quatar Bid, thought I would have a look at there bid document... www.fifa.com/mm/document/tournament/competition/01/33/74/56/b9qate.pdfThe heat issue is addressed early doors, each stadium will have a "cooling System" and clean renewable energy will be used to achive this (also the first carbon nutral WC apparently). The fan fests, and traning center will also run cooling systems (apparently its cutting edge and apparently its NEVER been implimented in stadiusm the size that are being planned!) The idea is that of the 11 stadiums 9 of them them (the new ones) will be broken down after the world cup and given to 9 other developing middle east countries... I quite like that idea. Average Temps at 12pm in June are around 40 degrees, falling to around 31-33 at 10PM (mental) and the average humidity is around 50-60%! All sorts of guff in the development of football world wide for countrys such as Syria, Packistan, Thiland,Nigeira, Nepal. Also on top of the 9 World cup stadiums, they will build another 22 modular stadiums across the world for "countries in need" Massive play of intergration of Women into there culture, through the power of womens football. All stadia will have Grass pitchs (not 3g of that new part plastic part grass affair) FIFA comment that there is so much work to do there are questions over if the stadiums would be built and tested in time for the 2022 world cup (how long do they think it will take! All traning venues will have huge sun shades! But concern as to how the grass will fare without much sun most of the time! Just some of the stuff in there bid.. loads more its quite intresting... seems thought the whole document that FIFA are not convinvced by the cooling system thing... if thats proved not to work??? Who knows?
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Post by shrew4life on Dec 3, 2010 10:36:07 GMT 1
I agree FIFA is corrupt and needs sorting out but how can that realistically happen. Who can just kick blatter out? Who can get rid of the othe corrupt cronies? It can't be done. The only way is for some countries to break away and form a new sort of FIFA which we all know is just not going to happen. So it seems we are stuck with a corrupt organisation.
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Post by barrynic on Dec 3, 2010 10:49:50 GMT 1
I agree FIFA is corrupt and needs sorting out but how can that realistically happen. Who can just kick blatter out? Who can get rid of the othe corrupt cronies? It can't be done. The only way is for some countries to break away and form a new sort of FIFA which we all know is just not going to happen. So it seems we are stuck with a corrupt organisation. ...........Seems like the only way to destroy the hideous Blatter and his corrupt cronies is for the Newspapers to keep digging in the hope of finding a trail to the numbered accounts of Switzerland. ...............and prove it !!
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Post by camdenshrew on Dec 3, 2010 11:36:52 GMT 1
If you want a laugh, Ian Wright's "incisive" take on the episode: bit.ly/f1LbZzAt least it might keep him off the Beeb now.
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Dec 3, 2010 11:41:24 GMT 1
Ian Wright - Fool.
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Post by BlueinSY2 on Dec 3, 2010 12:30:27 GMT 1
Some interesting new evidence about the 2018 vote..
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Post by stfcfan87 on Dec 3, 2010 15:08:37 GMT 1
As im as boggled as most about teh Quatar Bid, thought I would have a look at there bid document... www.fifa.com/mm/document/tournament/competition/01/33/74/56/b9qate.pdfThe heat issue is addressed early doors, each stadium will have a "cooling System" and clean renewable energy will be used to achive this (also the first carbon nutral WC apparently). The fan fests, and traning center will also run cooling systems (apparently its cutting edge and apparently its NEVER been implimented in stadiusm the size that are being planned!) The idea is that of the 11 stadiums 9 of them them (the new ones) will be broken down after the world cup and given to 9 other developing middle east countries... I quite like that idea. Average Temps at 12pm in June are around 40 degrees, falling to around 31-33 at 10PM (mental) and the average humidity is around 50-60%! All sorts of guff in the development of football world wide for countrys such as Syria, Packistan, Thiland,Nigeira, Nepal. Also on top of the 9 World cup stadiums, they will build another 22 modular stadiums across the world for "countries in need" Massive play of intergration of Women into there culture, through the power of womens football. All stadia will have Grass pitchs (not 3g of that new part plastic part grass affair) FIFA comment that there is so much work to do there are questions over if the stadiums would be built and tested in time for the 2022 world cup (how long do they think it will take! All traning venues will have huge sun shades! But concern as to how the grass will fare without much sun most of the time! Just some of the stuff in there bid.. loads more its quite intresting... seems thought the whole document that FIFA are not convinvced by the cooling system thing... if thats proved not to work??? Who knows? So FIFA aren't convinced by the cooling system?? That's surely the only thing that would make games remotely playable! And as pointed out, by a few people, what on earth are they going to do with all the supporters that visit? Not just in terms of housing them, and keeping them secure (considering there will be many within close proximity) but in terms of providing entertainment etc between matches? It's not like in South Africa where people could go on safari's, or in other places where there was lots to see and do - Qatar is a very small place
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Post by Amsterdammer on Dec 3, 2010 15:54:56 GMT 1
The Qatar bid is great in theory - small place, close proximity to the events, potential for lavish corporate entertaining to bring in the sponsors, facilities akin to the Abu Dhabi and Dubai grand prix. It could be like a football world built especially for the World Cup which will give it some appeal.
But there are so many 'ifs' involved that it's a huge risk to taken. IMO it's one that could only be taken by people who won't be around to live with the consequences. 12 years is a long time for some of these guys: Blatter will be 84, Warner 79, Hayatou 80 to name a few.
A conspiracy theorist would suggest that picking the 2022 hosts now, 12 years before the event, was only done to give Qatar time to build the stadiums (a done deal). And also to make sure certain individuals earn one last pay day before sailing off into the sunset. One last heist. It smells so bad that there must be something rotten in there.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Dec 3, 2010 16:53:55 GMT 1
I may be one of the few people on here to have experience of playing in Qatar-like conditions.
I was at RAF Sharjah for a year where summer temperatures are in the high 30's and humidity in the mid to high 60s.
We played football 2/3 times a week and it was quite comfortable once you got acclimatised. However, we reckoned at least a month for acclimatisation.
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Post by simianus on Dec 3, 2010 17:22:37 GMT 1
well we could have changed it, only saying what foriegn football supporters have told me. the scots say it, the french say it, the germans, the dutch, we come across as arrogant when it comes to football not something I ever chose to discuss with foreign people I have met - must have been a thrilling conversation i suppose golf should change the name of their tournament to the British Open as well? cheers, i am sure you're conversations are thrilling too i like to visit football stadiums when abroad, when asking for directions or whatever you get into all sorts of conversations when they find you are English. have had a drink with football supporters from other countries many times and i cant see why you would imply that a football conversation wouldnt be interesting. but i suppose not everybody finds football that interesting but thats the point isnt it, you dont have to look far to see us being called arrogant, yet our attitude is flip everyone else, we arent changing. are they just making it up or are we so arrogant we reject it? are they all just making it up then? and this myth that we gave football to the world is utter bilge, like i said before , yes we made up the rules to a game that had been played all over the world for centuries, but it sounds a lot grander to say the game originated here, than "we made up the rules". not arrogant that, is it and btw, i think it is called the british open, just googled the open golf 2011, and every site i saw called it the british open
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Post by scooter on Dec 3, 2010 17:51:06 GMT 1
I have talked football plenty of times, but don't recall anyone being bothered about what the FA were called, or being particlarly bothered that we were english. It just seems a strange topic to come up, rather than talking about games, players, places etc Link------> The Open
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Post by simianus on Dec 3, 2010 18:16:07 GMT 1
I have talked football plenty of times, but don't recall anyone being bothered about what the FA were called, or being particlarly bothered that we were english. It just seems a strange topic to come up, rather than talking about games, players, places etc Link------> The Open right, i think we have a misunderstanding, not talking about the F.A. s attitude, but that of our press, media and fans. although the F.A. do a good job of it too. the only bit about the F.A. that i mentioned was the name. there seems to me to be a belief amongst (at least northern europeans) that we feel we own the game ,all that "we gave the game to the world" as for the British open or whatever it is called, i thought it was the british open, sure it was when i was a kid, have they rebranded? are there any other opens? american or spanish or something? (sorry, my knowledge of golf is not good, i find it more than a little boring) To name it as if it is the only one around does seem quite arrogant to me, even if it is considered an important trophy.
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Post by barrynic on Dec 3, 2010 18:33:46 GMT 1
The British Open has always been called "The Open" long before the American one ever existed.
The American version is called the US Open.
There are no others............at least of any merit.
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Post by simianus on Dec 3, 2010 18:40:24 GMT 1
The British Open has always been called "The Open" long before the American one ever existed. The American version is called the US Open. There are no others............at least of any merit. cheers barry, appreciate you filling in the gaps. lots of website are offerng accomodation or whatever for the "british" open, so tis easy to confuse the two names. just out of interest, do you know if the americans call ours "the open" or is it just a name we use for it here? i think it is slightly different to the F.A. anyway, especially if it is the main one in the world.
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Post by creature on Dec 3, 2010 18:48:48 GMT 1
I would say that in these cases the British or English version is the original and doesn't need to change its name other than when distinguishing between two versions of the same name ie we usually refer to the Dollar, or in times gone by, the Franc. Only when differentiation is needed do we call them the US Dollar or French Franc. I wouldn't call a Frenchman arrogant for referrring to the Franc nor would I call an American arrogant for referring to the Dollar
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Post by simianus on Dec 3, 2010 19:05:25 GMT 1
I would say that in these cases the British or English version is the original and doesn't need to change its name other than when distinguishing between two versions of the same name ie we usually refer to the Dollar, or in times gone by, the Franc. Only when differentiation is needed do we call them the US Dollar or French Franc. I wouldn't call a Frenchman arrogant for referrring to the Franc nor would I call an American arrogant for referring to the Dollar i get the point you are making but the french use the euro these days and the term dollar comes from germany i think (was called the daler or something) not sure currency is the same, i have been known to refer to the money in my pocket as dollars even though it is pounds. not convinced it nessesarily is arrogant anyways, like i said, just passing on other peoples observations, getting a bit sidetracked on this one point. as an englishman, i am not best placed to decide wheter we are as other nations think of us, i live here. would be interested in what the overseas supporters have to say about it though
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Dec 3, 2010 19:38:57 GMT 1
Well Blatter called us "The Motherland" if that helps...
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Post by creature on Dec 3, 2010 20:11:37 GMT 1
I would say that in these cases the British or English version is the original and doesn't need to change its name other than when distinguishing between two versions of the same name ie we usually refer to the Dollar, or in times gone by, the Franc. Only when differentiation is needed do we call them the US Dollar or French Franc. I wouldn't call a Frenchman arrogant for referrring to the Franc nor would I call an American arrogant for referring to the Dollar i get the point you are making but the french use the euro these days and the term dollar comes from germany i think (was called the daler or something) not sure currency is the same, i have been known to refer to the money in my pocket as dollars even though it is pounds. not convinced it nessesarily is arrogant anyways, like i said, just passing on other peoples observations, getting a bit sidetracked on this one point. as an englishman, i am not best placed to decide wheter we are as other nations think of us, i live here. would be interested in what the overseas supporters have to say about it though In my time living abroad I always found people extremely positive about British football. The FA hasn't covered itself in glory over recent years (Triesmann, Richards, the broken Germany deal), so I could see how in the world of FIFA they might have an image problem
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Post by simianus on Dec 3, 2010 20:33:46 GMT 1
i get the point you are making but the french use the euro these days and the term dollar comes from germany i think (was called the daler or something) not sure currency is the same, i have been known to refer to the money in my pocket as dollars even though it is pounds. not convinced it nessesarily is arrogant anyways, like i said, just passing on other peoples observations, getting a bit sidetracked on this one point. as an englishman, i am not best placed to decide wheter we are as other nations think of us, i live here. would be interested in what the overseas supporters have to say about it though In my time living abroad I always found people extremely positive about British football. The FA hasn't covered itself in glory over recent years (Triesmann, Richards, the broken Germany deal), so I could see how in the world of FIFA they might have an image problem yes, british football is enjoyed all over the world, people always want to talk about it, it's exciting. i wasnt really talking about that though, more how we are percieved attitude wise.
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Post by simianus on Dec 3, 2010 20:36:40 GMT 1
Well Blatter called us "The Motherland" if that helps... bearing in mind how blatter feels about us as a nation, i think there is a strong chance of that being a sarcastic comment, although without any other context it is difficult to say. if not, maybe a case of telling us what we want to hear, softening the blow maybe. Or, and i think this is the least likely, he meant it.
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Post by creature on Dec 3, 2010 22:07:33 GMT 1
In my time living abroad I always found people extremely positive about British football. The FA hasn't covered itself in glory over recent years (Triesmann, Richards, the broken Germany deal), so I could see how in the world of FIFA they might have an image problem yes, british football is enjoyed all over the world, people always want to talk about it, it's exciting. i wasnt really talking about that though, more how we are percieved attitude wise. Well I can't say I ever heard criticism of our arrogance on the football front, maybe as a nation in general. In terms of our role as founders of football I have had conversation with fans of clubs in France, Spain, Italy, Germany who all appreciate the role of British workers in bringing the game to their country
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Post by simianus on Dec 3, 2010 22:24:05 GMT 1
yes, british football is enjoyed all over the world, people always want to talk about it, it's exciting. i wasnt really talking about that though, more how we are percieved attitude wise. Well I can't say I ever heard criticism of our arrogance on the football front, maybe as a nation in general. In terms of our role as founders of football I have had conversation with fans of clubs in France, Spain, Italy, Germany who all appreciate the role of British workers in bringing the game to their country hey ho, different people at different times i suppose. i do wonder about what your people(for want of a better phrase) said about foriegn workers bringing the game to their country, as similar ball games have been played accross europe for a very long time. it is true to say that english immigrants the rules of association football to foreign climbs, even helped establish clubs. but as far as i have read, it was always there, just with local rules.
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Post by creature on Dec 3, 2010 22:50:52 GMT 1
Well the best example I can give was working in Northern Spain for a Summer. The lad I worked with had briefly been on a then Premier League club's books and this was enough for him to be a legend in the eyes of the bloke who ran our nearest bar and was an avid Athletic Bilbao supporter. The influence in industrial areas of countries is strong. I can also remember coming back from working in Brittany for Shrewsbury - Wrexham in the doomed John Bond-Robbie Turner campaign and telling friends and workmates in Brittany we were expecting a crowd of 8000 for a fourth tier game, they just couldn't believe it and yearned for that kind of passion for the game in France. But like you say, this is all just anecdotal
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Post by simianus on Dec 3, 2010 22:54:58 GMT 1
Well the best example I can give was working in Northern Spain for a Summer. The lad I worked with had briefly been on a then Premier League club's books and this was enough for him to be a legend in the eyes of the bloke who ran our nearest bar and was an avid Athletic Bilbao supporter. The influence in industrial areas of countries is strong. I can also remember coming back from working in Brittany for Shrewsbury - Wrexham in the doomed John Bond-Robbie Turner campaign and telling friends and workmates in Brittany we were expecting a crowd of 8000 for a fourth tier game, they just couldn't believe it and yearned for that kind of passion for the game in France. But like you say, this is all just anecdotal i think that's what impresses foreign people about English football the most, the strength of the lower leagues. envious, would love to live in france
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Post by creature on Dec 3, 2010 23:05:40 GMT 1
aye, happy days
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Post by SeanBroseley on Dec 4, 2010 1:26:12 GMT 1
FIFA does its business the same way as BAE Systems.
I've just been reading a couple of articles by Andrew Jennings that appeared in the Daily Telegraph on Wednesday 30th July 2008.
It makes clear that Lord Triesman the view that England would not play the game as it had done when bidding for the 2006 World Cup. Up until then the FA had hired a former special adviser to Sepp Blatter, Peter Hargity, to draw up the campaign strategy. Interestingly Hargity experienced disappointment this week in helping Australia’s bid for the 2022 World Cup.
England had tried to get in the gutter during its 2006 campaign during 2000. In particular Bobby Charlton was despatched twice to sully his hands wooing the sleaze ball Nicolas Leoz, president of Latin American football. This was happening at a time that Leoz was trousering $100,000 and then $30,000 in bribes from International Sport and Leisure (ISL).
Leoz has held his position since 1986. He was disgraced in 2008 during the Swiss fraud trial into the collapse of ISL. During that trial one of the defendants, former chief executive of ISL, Christoph Malms said after he joined the company in the 1990s he discovered that the business was built on bribes, “I was told they went to well known decision makers in the world of sports politics.”Hans-Juerg Shmid, ISl’s former finance head, confimed Malms’ evidence in court, “If we hadn’t made the payments, the other parties wouldn’t have signed the contracts.”
With Triesman departed the in trouble English bid changed direction again. Just this week the second in line to the British throne breakfast with the notorious Latin American trougher Leoz. It isn’t reported whether Prince William was able to keep his breakfast down.
It is interesting to note that this grotesque situation has its origins in 1974 when the chief Latin American trougher of all-time, Joao Havalange defeated Sir Stanley Rous on the back of unaffordable promises to African associations. Havalange turned to Horst Dassler, head of Adidas. Dassler spent the 1970s and 1980s either helping to elect or keeping in power presidents of various sports’ governing bodies. The mutual commercial interests between the sports’ governing bodies and Dassler’s company ISL (yes, the same ISL) fed luxurious lifestyles for the bureaucrats. In the 1982 World Cup in Spain FIFA officials ran up a bill of £2 million. This was nearly as much as it cost to fly and accommodate the 24 competing teams in Spain.
Horst Dassler chose an assistant for Joao Havalange: Sepp Blatter. Blatter reported to Helmut Kaser, and married his daughter. Blatter then replaced Kaser as FIFA’s general secretary.
FIFA had an opportunity to choose democracy and transparency over the present scheming in the election to replace Joao Havalange in 1998. Lennart Johansson rode on the openness ticket, and Blatter stood against him upon Havalange’s insistence. The election was, as in 1974, won or lost in Africa. Blatter toured the continent courtesy of a Swiss sponsor and a Sheikh’s private jet. Johannson was crushed. The Washington Post reported that Blatter ”did not deny the distribution of $50,000 in envelopes, but said they were cash payments of previously agreed to disbursements to national federations.” An extraordinary way to conduct business.
Johannson thought that the election result was going to be quite close. His self-delusion mirrored that of the English bid team this week when it was left grasping for reasons for its complete and utter failure. But a little knowledge of FIFA’s history made neither outcome a surprise.
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Post by quinnster on Dec 4, 2010 13:18:04 GMT 1
Very disapointed, but not surprised. It makes it more amazing we got the Olympics really. Its no secret FIFA have got it in for us. We keep winning or doing well in the Champions League and our Premiership is doing well etc, allbeit with foriegn players.
Since the result announced, I've heard rumours of a breakaway organisation being formed. Early days for that, but something needs to be done. I thought the South Africa competition was as bad as USA 94 and can't see the Russkies or Qatar doing anything for real fans. Its a joke. A nice xmas present for the mafia and any dodgy outfit in the build up.
At least the Germans will make it to Moscow this time...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2010 14:39:36 GMT 1
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