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Post by simianus on Dec 1, 2010 23:39:51 GMT 1
The vending machines thing is utter *, Darlington have vending machines as do other grounds. A couple vending machines to do cups of tea and snax would be a good idea, the thing is it would take trade away from jennys and thats the problem. didnt realise they had them at other clubs, but i wouldnt drink the cack they produce. to be fair though i dont like the ones they do at football buffets either :/
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Post by siabod on Dec 1, 2010 23:43:24 GMT 1
The vending machines thing is utter *, Darlington have vending machines as do other grounds. A couple vending machines to do cups of tea and snax would be a good idea, the thing is it would take trade away from jennys and thats the problem. Darlington have plenty of room for both machines and queues.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2010 14:31:28 GMT 1
i've only given it 10 minutes thought, but already i can see that it isnt as easy as just deciding to do so, and waving a magic wand. Marcus, I read it that you've initially posted on this thread to suggest that the buffet/ queue system can't be improved and have now challenged any idea that is a potential solution. I'm sure you've been to other events/ locations etc. where you've seen something that's worked that could be implemented at the GM. Of course not every idea is a solution - perhaps none of the above are. But sometimes it takes a plethora of ideas to be raised to find one that fits - and you certainly don't find a solution to a problem just by arguing why others' ideas won't work - which to me appears to be what you have done with this particular issue. Let's hear some of your ideas - I'm sure you've got some great ones in there somewhere.
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Post by simianus on Dec 2, 2010 14:45:35 GMT 1
i've only given it 10 minutes thought, but already i can see that it isnt as easy as just deciding to do so, and waving a magic wand. Marcus, I read it that you've initially posted on this thread to suggest that the buffet/ queue system can't be improved and have now challenged any idea that is a potential solution. I'm sure you've been to other events/ locations etc. where you've seen something that's worked that could be implemented at the GM. Of course not every idea is a solution - perhaps none of the above are. But sometimes it takes a plethora of ideas to be raised to find one that fits - and you certainly don't find a solution to a problem just by arguing why others' ideas won't work - which to me appears to be what you have done with this particular issue. Let's hear some of your ideas - I'm sure you've got some great ones in there somewhere. Anthony you missed my point again i think. my point was that these things are more difficult than just making it so. the only reason i have cited possible problems, is to show that. if it were simple, it would have been done already. but we have some coming on and having a go at people who are doing their best. you only have to look at how busy they are to realise that they are constantly serving. and there are people having a go at the team we support without first thinking of why things are as they are. all i have done is try to guess at the reasons these things dont work to help people see that it may not be as easy as they think.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2010 14:52:28 GMT 1
It's Ant not Anthony
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Post by simianus on Dec 2, 2010 14:55:25 GMT 1
It's Ant not Anthony like fish in a barrel
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Post by blum on Dec 2, 2010 15:01:41 GMT 1
Marcus, I read it that you've initially posted on this thread to suggest that the buffet/ queue system can't be improved and have now challenged any idea that is a potential solution. I'm sure you've been to other events/ locations etc. where you've seen something that's worked that could be implemented at the GM. Of course not every idea is a solution - perhaps none of the above are. But sometimes it takes a plethora of ideas to be raised to find one that fits - and you certainly don't find a solution to a problem just by arguing why others' ideas won't work - which to me appears to be what you have done with this particular issue. Let's hear some of your ideas - I'm sure you've got some great ones in there somewhere. Anthony you missed my point again i think. my point was that these things are more difficult than just making it so. the only reason i have cited possible problems, is to show that. if it were simple, it would have been done already. but we have some coming on and having a go at people who are doing their best. you only have to look at how busy they are to realise that they are constantly serving. and there are people having a go at the team we support without first thinking of why things are as they are. all i have done is try to guess at the reasons these things dont work to help people see that it may not be as easy as they think. Marcus, Good points, however, this isnt a case of "if it aint broke etc." since we moved to the new ground it has been a constant pain in the neck I'm sure that people arent having a go at Jenny's staff as they do work their doo dars off at times. I think that the message is mainly directed at the club who dont give a toss as they dont have to put up with what the thousdands of fans do. Surely there needs to be consultation with the stadium management (along with various other things that need improvement) to see whether something can be done. Okay, you buy what you need before the game, lots of people don't if they all decided to then we'd be in the same position we are now, face it the whole system is cr@p and I for one would like common sense to prevail.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2010 15:18:35 GMT 1
[Marcus, I'm sure that people arent having a go at Jenny's staff as they do work their doo dars off at times. I think that the message is mainly directed at the club who dont give a toss as they dont have to put up with what the thousdands of fans do. Surely there needs to be consultation with the stadium management (along with various other things that need improvement) to see whether something can be done. Okay, you buy what you need before the game, lots of people don't if they all decided to then we'd be in the same position we are now, face it the whole system is cr@p and I for one would like common sense to prevail. correct, nobody from what i can see has suggested this is about the buffett staffing or how much effort they put in, in fact part of the problem seems to be that the caterers are doing a great job and lots of people want to use their facilities. what irritates me is that this has been a problem for several years now, and it really feels like the club dont care. i cant believe they are not aware of the issues regarding access to the buffett, i accept there is no magic answer (again i dont recall anyone suggesting there is), but there doesnt even seem to be any acknowledgement of the issues, or any attempt at solving them. if the club did this maybe people wouldnt have to guess at what the club are thinking?
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Post by simianus on Dec 2, 2010 15:23:06 GMT 1
Anthony you missed my point again i think. my point was that these things are more difficult than just making it so. the only reason i have cited possible problems, is to show that. if it were simple, it would have been done already. but we have some coming on and having a go at people who are doing their best. you only have to look at how busy they are to realise that they are constantly serving. and there are people having a go at the team we support without first thinking of why things are as they are. all i have done is try to guess at the reasons these things dont work to help people see that it may not be as easy as they think. Marcus, Good points, however, this isnt a case of "if it aint broke etc." since we moved to the new ground it has been a constant pain in the neck I'm sure that people arent having a go at Jenny's staff as they do work their doo dars off at times. I think that the message is mainly directed at the club who dont give a toss as they dont have to put up with what the thousdands of fans do. Surely there needs to be consultation with the stadium management (along with various other things that need improvement) to see whether something can be done. Okay, you buy what you need before the game, lots of people don't if they all decided to then we'd be in the same position we are now, face it the whole system is cr@p and I for one would like common sense to prevail. but i am not saying that it isnt broken, just that it isnt as easy as people think to do these things. it is very easy for us to criticize with no responsibility and no idea of the problems. the mobile drinks sellers on the face of it seems a good idea, but there is a cost involved, the literally hundreds of pounds for the tray, then the cost of staffing. money that on another day, we would rather see invested on the pitch. the club gets accused of all sorts of things, wasting money is one of them, but because it suits a few people we expect them to take a financial risk. i am also struck by the difference in this stadium and the Gay Meadow, we had to queue there, and it was done in an orderly fashion with minimal organisation. so yes as ANT mentioned, it is easy to pull other peoples ideas apart, but it is also an easy target to come on here and have a go at the club.
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Post by simianus on Dec 2, 2010 15:42:22 GMT 1
[Marcus, I'm sure that people arent having a go at Jenny's staff as they do work their doo dars off at times. I think that the message is mainly directed at the club who dont give a toss as they dont have to put up with what the thousdands of fans do. Surely there needs to be consultation with the stadium management (along with various other things that need improvement) to see whether something can be done. Okay, you buy what you need before the game, lots of people don't if they all decided to then we'd be in the same position we are now, face it the whole system is cr@p and I for one would like common sense to prevail. correct, nobody from what i can see has suggested this is about the buffett staffing or how much effort they put in, in fact part of the problem seems to be that the caterers are doing a great job and lots of people want to use their facilities. what irritates me is that this has been a problem for several years now, and it really feels like the club dont care. i cant believe they are not aware of the issues regarding access to the buffett, i accept there is no magic answer (again i dont recall anyone suggesting there is), but there doesnt even seem to be any acknowledgement of the issues, or any attempt at solving them. if the club did this maybe people wouldnt have to guess at what the club are thinking? Matron, how does a nurse feel if their hospital is criticized? now i am not saying we can expect the same level of professional dilligence from the buffet as we would from a nurse, but if you criticize a service, regardless of caviats about the nice food etc, the people who work there feel demotivated and that is unfair. so my comment is in defence of the staff, who work very hard and put up with some rude feckers (along with the majority of polite people like you) be interested as to how many people have fed back their problems to the club, before coming on here and getting all resentful.
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Post by blum on Dec 2, 2010 15:50:42 GMT 1
It's called "The Customer Experience", the customer is king etc.
It's not just a few people though, on here we only hear from B&A'ers, however, just watch what occurs on a match day.
Of course the club needs to be critisised, it is only they who can put it right. The single steward at the South Stand buffet id only interested in moaning if you happen to stand for more than 5 seconds with a bottle of beer on the yellow markings.
I guess because the buffet facility is leased to Jenny's and the club are not on a profit related agreement (guessing) then why should they care if the rabble in the stands are moaning about waiting 15 - 20 minutes to get a drink / pie etc.
In "normal life" if people complain things eventually change, for three years people have complained about the buffet system yet this appears to have fallen on deaf ears.
With regards the Gay Meadow buffet, there wasnt much choice, on the riverside it was one way in, one way out and on the Tech end there was one (sometimes 2) postage stamp windows so this obviously removed some (not all of the queue jumping), plus when it was raining you'd get absolutely soaked. Now we have a wide counter with 4 or so staff and a lot of people see it as a free for all..For me I dont see the association between old and new. Two completely different scenarios.
Personally I dont think the vending machine or drink seller would ever happen but personally (and I think the main point here) I feel there is a very real need to add a queueing flow system like you see in banks, shops, airports, cinemas.. Surely not that expensive. But is it another case of stuff the supporters? IMO yes it is.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2010 16:54:16 GMT 1
[Matron, how does a nurse feel if their hospital is criticized? now i am not saying we can expect the same level of professional dilligence from the buffet as we would from a nurse, but if you criticize a service, regardless of caviats about the nice food etc, the people who work there feel demotivated and that is unfair. so my comment is in defence of the staff, who work very hard and put up with some rude feckers (along with the majority of polite people like you) be interested as to how many people have fed back their problems to the club, before coming on here and getting all resentful. depends. if the critisism is being aimed at the bosses and organisation and is justified, i cant say i feel much. on a personal level, when we occassionaly receive complaints we do whats called a route cause analysis, to find out what caused the problem and what we can do to stop it happening again. a very reasonable approach i think and one maybe the club would benefit from adopting. you talk about defending the staff? but no one is attacking them. people are critisisng the club, not jennys, not the staff, what are you defending? as for your last point, i e mailed the club at the end of our first season at the new meadow pointing out the problems getting to the buffett after half a pint of beer was spilt over my wifes shoulder. i suggested a yellow boxed walkway along the length of the west stand about 2 people wide that the stewards would keep clear with the same vigilance they showed to other yellow boxed areas. i never had so much as a kiss my bum bum back from the club. but beyond that, do we (have we) not had a stadium manager here for years. maybe its time he/she managed the stadium? seems incredible to me that you cant smuggle the top off a coke bottle into the ground, your bags are all subject to be searched to try and root out this health and safety menace, yet its ok to try and sqeaze a thousand people into a 30 foot square before and during a game, all of which are carrying hot and cold drinks, food ect. and please dont try and deflect the discussion again going on about Jennys staff, unless of coarse Jenny is the stadium manager.
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Post by simianus on Dec 2, 2010 17:54:20 GMT 1
[Matron, how does a nurse feel if their hospital is criticized? now i am not saying we can expect the same level of professional dilligence from the buffet as we would from a nurse, but if you criticize a service, regardless of caviats about the nice food etc, the people who work there feel demotivated and that is unfair. so my comment is in defence of the staff, who work very hard and put up with some rude feckers (along with the majority of polite people like you) be interested as to how many people have fed back their problems to the club, before coming on here and getting all resentful. depends. if the critisism is being aimed at the bosses and organisation and is justified, i cant say i feel much. on a personal level, when we occassionaly receive complaints we do whats called a route cause analysis, to find out what caused the problem and what we can do to stop it happening again. a very reasonable approach i think and one maybe the club would benefit from adopting. you talk about defending the staff? but no one is attacking them. people are critisisng the club, not jennys, not the staff, what are you defending? as for your last point, i e mailed the club at the end of our first season at the new meadow pointing out the problems getting to the buffett after half a pint of beer was spilt over my wifes shoulder. i suggested a yellow boxed walkway along the length of the west stand about 2 people wide that the stewards would keep clear with the same vigilance they showed to other yellow boxed areas. i never had so much as a kiss my bum bum back from the club. but beyond that, do we (have we) not had a stadium manager here for years. maybe its time he/she managed the stadium? seems incredible to me that you cant smuggle the top off a coke bottle into the ground, your bags are all subject to be searched to try and root out this health and safety menace, yet its ok to try and sqeaze a thousand people into a 30 foot square before and during a game, all of which are carrying hot and cold drinks, food ect. and please dont try and deflect the discussion again going on about Jennys staff, unless of coarse Jenny is the stadium manager. deflecting attention? i take it you learned that from windsor and if i am going to take advice on how to argue, you wouldnt be the first choice, so nice try at stifling the debate, but no cigar. there is a difference between criticism and official comlaints, but you probably know that as i mentioned the 2 in separate parts of the post. i am talking about criticism from an unofficial source, like the way the press have rounded on the hospital with the high death rates. similar to some criticism on here, unrealistic and slightly hysterical,like your thing about squeezing 1000 people into 30 feet square(so 20% of an attendance all try to use the same buffet at the same time?). the bottle top thing is the same at other grounds, has happened to me at premiership grounds, and yes i think it is a silly rule too, but you have to observe these rules, or i suspect getting insured is more costly. but it is a separate issue, one that happens at every football club as far as i have seen. not saying we cant come up with an answer here, just that maybe people have already tried. it isnt relevant but i am not accusing you of deflecting away from the argument. and that is part of what i am saying, cant we separate what the real issues are, from the common ones experienced everywhere? because as i see it, our issues arent too different to other clubs. we have queues, so does everyone else. people are rude and inconsiderate at times which causes problems, so do other clubs.but the way it is being put accross (by some) is like some sort of betrayal. on the point about feedback from the club, it is a common problem and it is something the club could do with sorting out. a complaints procedure like the one you mentioned would be good. Although having complained about something to rsh a couple of years back, i never had so much as a kiss my bum bum back from the hospital. so i guess we arent all perfect(and that isnt directed at you, i know you arent responsible for everything that goes on there) not concerned about criticism though? interesting as you dont seem too happy when you percieve the club doing the same.
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