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Post by El Presidente on Nov 1, 2010 20:45:07 GMT 1
No, not the band... For those who have an interest, or an opinion on policing this country (lets face it, thats most of us), this series might be enlightening... www.channel4.com/programmes/coppersTonight, C4, 9pm.
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Post by Rusholme Ruffian on Nov 2, 2010 0:53:23 GMT 1
Fairly interesting. Generally a nicer/more compassionate bunch than what I saw on The Hospital, which it is clearly based on. Still a mix of those that think prisoners require no human rights at all, and some genuinely very nice coppers.
Depressing how many of them are simply addicted and have little way out other than constantly stealing and prostituting themselves to get by. Seeing those photos through time was horrible.
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Post by mrmagoo on Nov 2, 2010 15:04:01 GMT 1
A little snapshot of the big picture.... Accurately shown and represented..
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Post by onthetrain92 on Nov 3, 2010 0:43:17 GMT 1
Shropshires finest certainly earned there overtime tonight...................NOT! Waste of money!
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Post by mrmagoo on Nov 3, 2010 13:55:38 GMT 1
Shropshires finest certainly earned there overtime tonight...................NOT! Waste of money! I take it you are in full facts of the situation last night and that of the last month.. Didn't think so................
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Post by El Presidente on Nov 8, 2010 22:23:14 GMT 1
On again now if anyone is interested....
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Post by timgallon on Nov 8, 2010 23:22:48 GMT 1
Caught most of it tonight. A good thought provoking insight into traffic cops in Cambridgeshire. Certainly dont envy some of the scenes of carnage they come across on the roads.
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Post by El Presidente on Nov 15, 2010 21:30:49 GMT 1
Back on again tonight, C4, 9pm. Focusses on the general 999 response officers. Should be an eye opener ... should, if it's not heavilly edited.
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Post by El Presidente on Nov 17, 2010 14:41:08 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2010 17:20:52 GMT 1
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Post by floreatsalopia1 on Nov 18, 2010 19:01:18 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2010 20:41:22 GMT 1
surgical spirit into an open wound
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Post by shrewsace on Nov 18, 2010 20:42:55 GMT 1
Forgive my ignorance, El Presidente, but do you have an interest to declare with regards to the police?
I've noticed you sometimes quote sections of law and seem quite knowledgeable about police procedures.
Do you work in or with the police, or know someone who does?
Just out of interest.
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Post by floreatsalopia1 on Nov 18, 2010 21:00:58 GMT 1
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Post by El Presidente on Nov 18, 2010 21:17:16 GMT 1
Forgive my ignorance, El Presidente, but do you have an interest to declare with regards to the police? I've noticed you sometimes quote sections of law and seem quite knowledgeable about police procedures. Do you work in or with the police, or know someone who does? Just out of interest. Just an enthusiastic amateur ... and argumentative, opinionated git.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2010 22:57:30 GMT 1
After reading this thread, decided to have a look at this tonight.
It's unbelievable the amount of rubbish the police have to put up with due to drunken fools. There is a lack of respect for bobbies on the beat just doing their job.
Even more focus needs to be made on binge-drinking and drunken foolishness to sort this mess out.
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Post by nicko on Nov 26, 2010 19:04:36 GMT 1
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Post by WindsorShrew on Nov 26, 2010 21:53:04 GMT 1
It is impossible to tell without knowing the facts Nick, however you could have posted some of the gratuitous violence dished out by the students that day and previously.
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Post by El Presidente on Nov 27, 2010 5:41:11 GMT 1
The question of necessity...and being in possession of the facts as windy says. Firstly Necessity. As stated in the article, the police had issued the requirement for people to leave and disperse. This was ignored. Clearly, having a line of officers on foot in riot gear did not achieve the desired result of dispersing the crowd. Mounted officers were used, and it seems this achieved the aim of dispersing and moving the crowd back. So, was it necessary to use mounted police in that manner? It seems so. The facts...we are assuming the section of crowd first moved into by mounted police was peaceful. It may not have been, hence the sudden use of mounted police. Was this a charge of mounted police? Subjective. Seemed more like a canter to me and batons were not draw I believe. Certainly the mounted police initially move in on one section of crowd only. This leads to chants of ‘Same old Pigs’, ‘f’ing wa*kers’ etc etc. Broader picture, as in my other post, the police chiefs certainly seem to think the ‘game’ has changed, but as I alluded to in that post this game changed years ago. I had a chat with a mate of mine about the very issue of the public perception of the police in general and why (or if) respect has been lost. Personally I think we had a generation shift of attitudes during the 1980’s. We had widespread militant union action; social unrest with riots in Bristol, London, Liverpool and beyond; and civil disorder during the Poll Tax riots. This was the decade in which ‘the police’ were in near continual confrontation with the majority of Joe public. The age old Dixon of Dock Green tactics of politely pushing the crowd back, as the crowd politely pushed you, changed. We now have what we see today – fire extinguishers, metal poles, bricks, bottles and pyrotechnics being lobbed by human beings at other human beings. As in this video, we have public disorder and an attempt to tackle it. Whatever ‘the police’ do in this type of situation will generally be viewed in a negative light, but let’s remember that at the end of the day when the Copper takes his uniform off he is a normal person living in the same communities affected by these very issues. Sadly, Dixon of Dock Green days have gone. We now have baton strikes, robust use of mounted police, and kettling. In the not too distant future, I’m sure we will be seeing more robust use of force similar to that used by our continental cousins. Water cannon perhaps? Rubber bullets? CS grenades? Who knows, but one thing is for sure, no one is going to like it...
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Post by nicko on Nov 27, 2010 8:52:32 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2010 9:33:15 GMT 1
I think it is easy to differentiate between the 99% of police behaviour and daily activity and the way that a protest against the government is dealt with.
So whilst LoyalShrew is absolutely spot on with his comments, I also feel very uncomfortable in watching the way the police chose to deal with the students and supporters this week.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2010 10:09:06 GMT 1
I think it is easy to differentiate between the 99% of police behaviour and daily activity and the way that a protest against the government is dealt with. So whilst LoyalShrew is absolutely spot on with his comments, I also feel very uncomfortable in watching the way the police chose to deal with the students and supporters this week. "The" Welshshrew? welcome back the informed voice of reason
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Post by WindsorShrew on Nov 27, 2010 11:43:34 GMT 1
"The" Welshshrew? welcome back the informed voice of reason I can Pab moulding his lips to fit your arris as we type Gareth.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2010 11:52:16 GMT 1
"The" Welshshrew? welcome back the informed voice of reason I can Pab moulding his lips to fit your arris as we type Gareth. at least i would be able to reach his arris.
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Post by El Presidente on Nov 27, 2010 17:49:15 GMT 1
So whilst LoyalShrew is absolutely spot on with his comments, I also feel very uncomfortable in watching the way the police chose to deal with the students and supporters this week. But then the debate should change Welshie, to read 'What do the public want of the Police' ... The force can not be all thing s to all people. The protest was told to wind up, the protestors refused. should the police just sit there indefinately until they choose to wind their way home? Would you be more comfortable with european style crowd dispersal? The blonde lass crying, yes its not nice to see, but then these incidents never are nice. Amongst crowds like this you will always have both good intentioned people and bad...the difference is the police are bounded by rules and regulations, and an army of closet reporters and human rights activists who all play to a different agenda.
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Post by nicko on Nov 28, 2010 10:37:08 GMT 1
So whilst LoyalShrew is absolutely spot on with his comments, I also feel very uncomfortable in watching the way the police chose to deal with the students and supporters this week. But then the debate should change Welshie, to read 'What do the public want of the Police' ... The force can not be all thing s to all people. The protest was told to wind up, the protestors refused. should the police just sit there indefinately until they choose to wind their way home? Would you be more comfortable with european style crowd dispersal? The blonde lass crying, yes its not nice to see, but then these incidents never are nice. Amongst crowds like this you will always have both good intentioned people and bad...the difference is the police are bounded by rules and regulations, and an army of closet reporters and human rights activists who all play to a different agenda. No, these incidents are never nice whether it be a blond lady crying, or a protester dropping a fire extinguisher from a great height, or Ian Tomlinson dying. Why was the protest told to wind up? (early according to some reports). Apart from the well documented violence it was largely peaceful? Was that pocket of violence justification to use horses to disperse the crowd seen in the video? It seems to me we have the " democratic right to protest" but only on the Governments and the laws terms. Luckily we have human rights activists who highlight the truth about the right to peaceful protest in this country and how to go about it. One example. www.foe.co.uk/resource/how_tos/cyw_59_protest_law.pdfMaybe Mr Miliband didn't want to get cantered at. Missed opportunity in my opinion. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11845176At least though we now know what he stands for.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2010 10:42:27 GMT 1
[ At least though we now know what he stands for. or more likely, just accuse him of headline grabbing or bandwagon jumping.
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Post by nicko on Nov 28, 2010 10:47:35 GMT 1
[ At least though we now know what he stands for. or more likely, just accuse him of headline grabbing or bandwagon jumping. Not by me Matron and I mean that. As usual with me it's a wait and see situation. It was with the coalition (still is in some cases) and so it is with Miliband Jr. I feel he had an opportunity to make a bold statement here and he was merely "tempted".
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Post by WindsorShrew on Nov 28, 2010 10:57:27 GMT 1
It seems to me we have the " democratic right to protest" but only on the Governments and the laws terms. That is certainly nothing new Nick, Maya Evans proves that point. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4527274.stmAs to what and is what not acceptable I believe that should be set in law, the Police simply cannot win IMO. Yes I firmly believe we all have the right to protest but we must do so within boundaries - in the first instance I would say moral boundaries but the problem is morals differ. Hence we get " a small group" who seem intent on violent disorder at a high proportion of protests. Thus the protest loses it's desired impact and the boundaries implied become legal. Back to the Police, on one hand should they take no or little action as happened on the first student protest there then resulted damage to property and near death. Should they take effective action then those "peaceful - law abiding" protesters get caught in the web. Again the protest is ruined. It can be done, the march against the War (Iraq) was attended by well over 1 million ( and then duly ignored). The march in Dublin yesterday again proved people can demonstrate without violent elements taking over. So Mr Policeman your damned if you do and damned if you don't.
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Post by simianus on Nov 28, 2010 12:53:27 GMT 1
It seems to me we have the " democratic right to protest" but only on the Governments and the laws terms. That is certainly nothing new Nick, Maya Evans proves that point. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4527274.stmAs to what and is what not acceptable I believe that should be set in law, the Police simply cannot win IMO. Yes I firmly believe we all have the right to protest but we must do so within boundaries - in the first instance I would say moral boundaries but the problem is morals differ. Hence we get " a small group" who seem intent on violent disorder at a high proportion of protests. Thus the protest loses it's desired impact and the boundaries implied become legal. Back to the Police, on one hand should they take no or little action as happened on the first student protest there then resulted damage to property and near death. Should they take effective action then those "peaceful - law abiding" protesters get caught in the web. Again the protest is ruined. It can be done, the march against the War (Iraq) was attended by well over 1 million ( and then duly ignored). The march in Dublin yesterday again proved people can demonstrate without violent elements taking over. So Mr Policeman your damned if you do and damned if you don't. there is a strong element of truth to that, but i think the police suffer from having to carry out the wishes of whatever govt is in power. as the first point of contact the police recieve the ire from the more vociferous protestors. the hooded protesters have the anarcho syndaclist look to them, there are quite a lot of disaffected young people out there who dont believe in the current political system. i dont think the politicians know the exist, which i think is frustrating, and we all know what happens when people are ignored for long enough, violence. but we see it all over society, young misunderstood people, in packs creating havoc. nobody is interested in them , they are rightly resentful and the emergency services have to bear the brunt of this. i'm pretty sure that if those in authority spent more time and money on the social ills of the country, we would have less violence on our streets , and more respect for society.
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