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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Nov 18, 2010 23:36:10 GMT 1
I have a muslim friend. And a gay friend. And a Hindu friend. And a Buddhist friend.
It is highly likely that ALL of them have more not whatever they are friends, because they are in a minority, so there are fewer of them to be friends with, and more of us.
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Post by saladsaladsalad on Nov 19, 2010 0:01:58 GMT 1
mattmw - out of interest, every post you have made is reasoning in favour of Muslims and against non-muslims, one post you have cherry picked a statistic (badly) to state more non-muslims are averse to muslims than vice versa. Is this a belief you hold genuinely even when seeing the opinion poll and what occurs in Britain etc? Or is it a case of playing devil's advocate, or a mixture, or did you do a degree in race relations?
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Post by mattmw on Nov 19, 2010 8:50:58 GMT 1
mattmw - out of interest, every post you have made is reasoning in favour of Muslims and against non-muslims, one post you have cherry picked a statistic (badly) to state more non-muslims are it a case of playing devil's advocate, or a mixture, or did you do a degree in race relations? Let's just be clear I don't favour Muslims over none Muslims - I believe in equality and actually am personally not religious in anyway. Also any form of extremism needs to be challenged. I was saying just that - that cherry picking statistics is a bad idea as statistics can show exactly what you want them to. Look behind the stats, question where they came from, and who commissioned them before putting too much weight behind them. I do work in community development so do see problems that can emerge in communities that don't work together to tackle issues that affect them. What I'd hope threads like this do is to try and encourage people to look at things in a different way and try to look at issues from other peoples point of view The fact there is a ten page thread on the issue on a footy forum is fantastic
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Post by Shrewed on Nov 19, 2010 8:51:33 GMT 1
For those on here who have anti Islamic views, maybe you'd like to comment on the police view that the EDL and their like are the reason why young Muslims are becoming extremists. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11787839
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Post by d00bie on Nov 19, 2010 9:41:43 GMT 1
How can you have a view on something you don't understand?
I really don't get why muslim extremists would strap a bomb to themselves and blow the **** out of anything and anyone for the sake of their faith.
What I do know is I don't want it happening in Britain, and if a bombing did happen I would support the police and the British government in whatever robust measures they felt appropriate to deal with these extremists.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2010 10:50:55 GMT 1
For those on here who have anti Islamic views, maybe you'd like to comment on the police view that the EDL and their like are the reason why young Muslims are becoming extremists. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11787839I saw that this morning Ed One argument is that if these muslim extremist groups werent in existence, then neither would the EDL. They only appeared after that small group of Muslims heckled and protested a soliders homecoming in Luton Of course now its a vicious circle, the more extreme muslim protests/acts (like the poppy burning) will see more people join the EDL and go on the march's. This in turn will anger the Muslim community (and others of course) and in some instances will lead to people joining extreme muslim groups.
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Post by WindsorShrew on Nov 19, 2010 11:23:54 GMT 1
I have a muslim friend. And a gay friend. And a Hindu friend. And a Buddhist friend. I am friends with Pab too Dave.
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Post by WindsorShrew on Nov 19, 2010 11:30:03 GMT 1
For those on here who have anti Islamic views, maybe you'd like to comment on the police view that the EDL and their like are the reason why young Muslims are becoming extremists. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11787839Some good stuff there Ed, the two parties of fanatics will only cause more hatred and disturbance. Something fantastic happened a few years ago which we must learn from. The peoples of Northern Ireland after years of war declared a truce, they now for the most part live peaceful and prosperous lives. If the Catholics and Protestants can do it after centuries of hatred surely we can do it as well....communication, education, tolerance and respect are key.
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Post by SY3 on Nov 19, 2010 11:47:08 GMT 1
For those on here who have anti Islamic views, maybe you'd like to comment on the police view that the EDL and their like are the reason why young Muslims are becoming extremists. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11787839I saw that this morning Ed One argument is that if these muslim extremist groups werent in existence, then neither would the EDL. They only appeared after that small group of Muslims heckled and protested a soliders homecoming in Luton Of course now its a vicious circle, the more extreme muslim protests/acts (like the poppy burning) will see more people join the EDL and go on the march's. This in turn will anger the Muslim community (and others of course) and in some instances will lead to people joining extreme muslim groups. I understood that some of the BNP's idelogies were extreme, but i'm not so sure about the EDL. Correct me if i'm wrong, but arn't the EDL in existence purely to stand up to Islamic extremists in England? If so surely thats a good thing as it shows people are sick of it. It seems to me that people are desperate to tar and feather the EDL and class them the same as the BNP - but to my limited knowledge there seems to be major differences. Like i say if i'm wrong then will someone put me in the picture.
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Post by Shrewed on Nov 19, 2010 11:55:58 GMT 1
For those on here who have anti Islamic views, maybe you'd like to comment on the police view that the EDL and their like are the reason why young Muslims are becoming extremists. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11787839I saw that this morning Ed One argument is that if these muslim extremist groups werent in existence, then neither would the EDL. They only appeared after that small group of Muslims heckled and protested a soliders homecoming in Luton Of course now its a vicious circle, the more extreme muslim protests/acts (like the poppy burning) will see more people join the EDL and go on the march's. This in turn will anger the Muslim community (and others of course) and in some instances will lead to people joining extreme muslim groups. Paul you are right it is time that muslims stopped tarring all westerners with the EDL brush and all Brits stop assuming that all Muslims are terrorists who hate everything that Britain stands for. It is time from tolerance on both sides and stop the childish chants of he started it, or he did this. Time to work together for a better Britain for all.
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Post by Amsterdammer on Nov 19, 2010 12:44:44 GMT 1
Correct me if i'm wrong, but arn't the EDL in existence purely to stand up to Islamic extremists in England? If that's true, they're certainly creating the wrong impression. A badge taken from the crusades and phrases like 'no more mosques' suggests their agenda is beyond extremism. If they are purely anti-extremism, they need a new PR department. There recent visit to Amsterdam was less than successful too, even Wilders did not come out to support them.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Nov 19, 2010 12:57:15 GMT 1
I feel angry that both Muslims and working class white people feel so alienated by our political elite that extremism appears to be the only way either of them have a voice.
Now that is the big concern.
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Post by SY3 on Nov 19, 2010 13:10:17 GMT 1
I feel angry that both Muslims and working class white people feel so alienated by our political elite that extremism appears to be the only way either of them have a voice. Now that is the big concern. I agree in a sense. Do you feel there should have been a referendum in Britain before the floodgates were opened - leading to mass immigration?
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Post by SY3 on Nov 19, 2010 13:34:42 GMT 1
Correct me if i'm wrong, but arn't the EDL in existence purely to stand up to Islamic extremists in England? If that's true, they're certainly creating the wrong impression. A badge taken from the crusades and phrases like 'no more mosques' suggests their agenda is beyond extremism. If they are purely anti-extremism, they need a new PR department. There recent visit to Amsterdam was less than successful too, even Wilders did not come out to support them. But you could say the 'no more mosques' statement is a fair one. Here is a link, scroll down to read the opinions of the local people it affects - note some that have commented are Asian/Muslim too (first comment below article). Maybe the fact it isn't on our doorstep yet helps to form the care free attitude towards this. Anyway here's the link - www.dudleynews.co.uk/news/4529796.Nod_for_Mosque_brings_despair/
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Post by Shrewed on Nov 19, 2010 14:09:29 GMT 1
I saw that this morning Ed One argument is that if these muslim extremist groups werent in existence, then neither would the EDL. They only appeared after that small group of Muslims heckled and protested a soliders homecoming in Luton Of course now its a vicious circle, the more extreme muslim protests/acts (like the poppy burning) will see more people join the EDL and go on the march's. This in turn will anger the Muslim community (and others of course) and in some instances will lead to people joining extreme muslim groups. I understood that some of the BNP's idelogies were extreme, but i'm not so sure about the EDL. Correct me if i'm wrong, but arn't the EDL in existence purely to stand up to Islamic extremists in England? If so surely thats a good thing as it shows people are sick of it. It seems to me that people are desperate to tar and feather the EDL and class them the same as the BNP - but to my limited knowledge there seems to be major differences. Like i say if i'm wrong then will someone put me in the picture. SY3 if you believe that EDL is a peaceful organisation only interested in defending England from Islamic Extremists I suggest you read this article from the Daily Mail. www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1238213/This-England-On-trail-English-Defence-League.html. Would I mind a mosque being built in Shrewsbury with facilties for the whole community to use - No in fact if they site it where the Market Hall is I'll come along with my sledge hammer. Not sure when you believe the floodgates open but Britain has invited and welcomed immigrants for centuries but large scale immigration of "non-whites" really began in the early 1950's. No need for a referendum since the sixties there have been right wing parties advocating repatriation etc, rarely have they achieved more than 10% of the vote. Last year more than half of the non-European immigrants were students here on short term visas or young commonwealth people here on short term working holidays.
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Post by SY3 on Nov 19, 2010 14:48:31 GMT 1
I understood that some of the BNP's idelogies were extreme, but i'm not so sure about the EDL. Correct me if i'm wrong, but arn't the EDL in existence purely to stand up to Islamic extremists in England? If so surely thats a good thing as it shows people are sick of it. It seems to me that people are desperate to tar and feather the EDL and class them the same as the BNP - but to my limited knowledge there seems to be major differences. Like i say if i'm wrong then will someone put me in the picture. SY3 if you believe that EDL is a peaceful organisation only interested in defending England from Islamic Extremists I suggest you read this article from the Daily Mail. www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1238213/This-England-On-trail-English-Defence-League.html. Would I mind a mosque being built in Shrewsbury with facilties for the whole community to use - No in fact if they site it where the Market Hall is I'll come along with my sledge hammer. Not sure when you believe the floodgates open but Britain has invited and welcomed immigrants for centuries but large scale immigration of "non-whites" really began in the early 1950's. No need for a referendum since the sixties there have been right wing parties advocating repatriation etc, rarely have they achieved more than 10% of the vote. Last year more than half of the non-European immigrants were students here on short term visas or young commonwealth people here on short term working holidays. That link isn't loading for me unfortunately. I admit i don't know a great deal about the EDL, but from what i have heard so far they seem to be respectable. A close friend of mine works for a language school teaching English. He says himself a lot of the students admit to him they have no interest in learning the language or any intention of going back home, they just want to get lost in the system. Well when i say 'floodgates' i mean during Labours last tenure, the immigration figures were extremeley high, also the number of people that were un-accounted for was worrying high too. So i am referring to that era.
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Post by Shrewed on Nov 19, 2010 15:09:36 GMT 1
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Post by scooter on Nov 19, 2010 15:10:33 GMT 1
Well when i say 'floodgates' i mean during Labours last tenure, the immigration figures were extremeley high, also the number of people that were un-accounted for was worrying high too. So i am referring to that era. You can't just draw lines at certain governments or certain years. People relocated here and their children and grandchildren are born here - they are british and all people in this country are going to have to accept that and deal with it responsibly A referendum 10 years ago would not have changed that
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Post by SY3 on Nov 19, 2010 15:32:26 GMT 1
Well when i say 'floodgates' i mean during Labours last tenure, the immigration figures were extremeley high, also the number of people that were un-accounted for was worrying high too. So i am referring to that era. You can't just draw lines at certain governments or certain years. People relocated here and their children and grandchildren are born here - they are british and all people in this country are going to have to accept that and deal with it responsibly A referendum 10 years ago would not have changed that I'm afraid i can. So were all the shocking immigration statistics under Labour brought up on question time just made up then!!!? I think not - so i have every right to be concerned thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2010 15:44:01 GMT 1
I saw that this morning Ed One argument is that if these muslim extremist groups werent in existence, then neither would the EDL. They only appeared after that small group of Muslims heckled and protested a soliders homecoming in Luton Of course now its a vicious circle, the more extreme muslim protests/acts (like the poppy burning) will see more people join the EDL and go on the march's. This in turn will anger the Muslim community (and others of course) and in some instances will lead to people joining extreme muslim groups. Paul you are right it is time that muslims stopped tarring all westerners with the EDL brush and all Brits stop assuming that all Muslims are terrorists who hate everything that Britain stands for. It is time from tolerance on both sides and stop the childish chants of he started it, or he did this. Time to work together for a better Britain for all. Fair enough Ed but your views on this post are different to the original post and the link you put up which was clearly a case of the EDL are causing extremism. I think Throb has probably summed it up in that that people feel alienated so feel forced into going to extremist groups as they feel that they are the only ones standing up for them (on both sides).
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Post by SY3 on Nov 19, 2010 15:47:05 GMT 1
Paul you are right it is time that muslims stopped tarring all westerners with the EDL brush and all Brits stop assuming that all Muslims are terrorists who hate everything that Britain stands for. It is time from tolerance on both sides and stop the childish chants of he started it, or he did this. Time to work together for a better Britain for all. Fair enough Ed but your views on this post are different to the original post and the link you put up which was clearly a case of the EDL are causing extremism. I think Throb has probably summed it up in that that people feel alienated so feel forced into going to extremist groups as they feel that they are the only ones standing up for them (on both sides). This is very true. The trouble is the mainstream parties are obsessed with playing it safe to not risk offending anyone. This alienates an awful lot of people - has Cameron even touched on immigration yet?
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Post by Shrewed on Nov 19, 2010 17:11:26 GMT 1
Paul you are right it is time that muslims stopped tarring all westerners with the EDL brush and all Brits stop assuming that all Muslims are terrorists who hate everything that Britain stands for. It is time from tolerance on both sides and stop the childish chants of he started it, or he did this. Time to work together for a better Britain for all. Fair enough Ed but your views on this post are different to the original post and the link you put up which was clearly a case of the EDL are causing extremism. I think Throb has probably summed it up in that that people feel alienated so feel forced into going to extremist groups as they feel that they are the only ones standing up for them (on both sides). Paul this is a family site and as such I need to be careful how I describe the EDL but yes I do believe they are extremist and racist and if it wasn't the muslims they would find another group to vent their spleen on. SY3 if you want the immigration figures why don't you look at the official figures and see which country people come from and their reason for coming. It might surprise you. This is the latest statistics but shows history as well. www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/mig0810.pdf
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2010 17:13:12 GMT 1
What I do know is I don't want it happening in Britain, and if a bombing did happen I would support the police and the British government in whatever robust measures they felt appropriate to deal with these extremists. you would be suprised though how many of the previous goverments opponents on here slated them for big brother tactics, eroding human rights, impedeing civil liberties, stop and search laws, cctv, ect. lots of threads and heated debate on the subject. i guess though as we are talking about Muslims, it must be ok? I have a muslim friend. And a gay friend. And a Hindu friend. And a Buddhist friend. I am friends with Pab too Dave. :)ker [One argument is that if these muslim extremist groups werent in existence, then neither would the EDL. They only appeared after that small group of Muslims heckled and protested a soliders homecoming in Luton . another arguement is that there has always been a small racist facist element in british society and all they do is move from one group to another, nf, bnp now edl is the flavour of the month.
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Post by Amsterdammer on Nov 19, 2010 17:18:04 GMT 1
SY3 if you want the immigration figures why don't you look at the official figures Why ruin a good story with the facts....
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Post by SY3 on Nov 19, 2010 17:22:55 GMT 1
[One argument is that if these muslim extremist groups werent in existence, then neither would the EDL. They only appeared after that small group of Muslims heckled and protested a soliders homecoming in Luton . another arguement is that there has always been a small racist facist element in british society and all they do is move from one group to another, nf, bnp now edl is the flavour of the month. [/quote] From what i can see the EDL has many supporters from black origin, so clearly skin colour and race can't be much of an issue to them - which is the way it should be. If they're seeking to protest against Islamic extremism in this country then good on them i say - because someone needs to speak up.
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Post by SY3 on Nov 19, 2010 17:27:01 GMT 1
SY3 if you want the immigration figures why don't you look at the official figures Why ruin a good story with the facts.... I bet you haven't yet looked at them either. I remember the facts cited on Question Time with regards to immigration figures under Labour were alarming, so when i get time i may trawl through that website you suggest to find them but really whats the point.
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Post by SY3 on Nov 19, 2010 17:31:34 GMT 1
SY3 if you want the immigration figures why don't you look at the official figures and see which country people come from and their reason for coming. It might surprise you. This is the latest statistics but shows history as well. www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/mig0810.pdfThese figures won't show up all the immigrants that came here illegally who were not accounted for.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2010 17:33:31 GMT 1
[ From what i can see the EDL has many supporters from black origin, so clearly skin colour and race can't be much of an issue to them - which is the way it should be. If they're seeking to protest against Islamic extremism in this country then good on them i say - because someone needs to speak up. i have had a look and cant see much evidence of black supporters and im pretty sure these arnt real.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2010 17:37:34 GMT 1
[ These figures won't show up all the immigrants that came here illegally who were not accounted for. this is starting to get a little daft, and it seems to me that this discussion is going no where, but, how do you know how many immigrants came here illegally if they where not accounted for?
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Post by Shrewed on Nov 19, 2010 17:40:05 GMT 1
Why ruin a good story with the facts.... I bet you haven't yet looked at them either. I remember the facts cited on Question Time with regards to immigration figures under Labour were alarming, so when i get time i may trawl through that website you suggest to find them but really whats the point. Before I cite any facts I check them rather that accepting the interpretation of someone else. Of course the figures wont show illegal immigrants but I suggest you look at the queues of people waiting to get into this country at ports and airports and estimate the number of illegals last year for instance.
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