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Post by neilsalop on Jun 11, 2007 20:26:10 GMT 1
looks great with the loggerheads on, wonder if its available
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Post by AndyShrew2007 on Jun 11, 2007 20:33:35 GMT 1
looks great with the loggerheads on, wonder if its available You seem to having a conversation with yourself i.e. replying to your own posts.. what a sad individual
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Post by keithyshrew25 on Jun 11, 2007 20:56:34 GMT 1
New kit comes out I'm havin me one, old badge or new...
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Post by nicko on Jun 11, 2007 21:01:33 GMT 1
The fact remains that the logo says nothing about the Club, who we are and where we are from. Apart from Shrewsbury Town FC, 1886 and the lion which represents us as being part of Shropshire. Along with the blue and amber. ? Fail to see how a lion represents us being from Shropshire. As for the rest, I said a while back we may as well drop the lion and keep the rest. Inspite of what you say the logo does not represent the Club, or who we are.
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Post by nicko on Jun 11, 2007 21:04:45 GMT 1
I will not buy anything with that logo on. Thats a bit sad isn't it??? Do you support the club implicitly or only buy their products as long as it caters to your tastes specifically??? Do you go into Marks & Spencer and complain because they don't make shirts exactly how you want them??? Why? Define supporting the Club implicitly. No I go to Matalan.
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handsoffmeadowenjoyment
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Post by handsoffmeadowenjoyment on Jun 11, 2007 21:05:56 GMT 1
looks great with the loggerheads on, wonder if its available You seem to having a conversation with yourself i.e. replying to your own posts.. what a sad individual I am not neilsalop! I am a european! he was replying to my post, not his own. p.s. i haven't tampered with the kits,that is a direct link to the a-line site and checkout the new kettering badge
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Post by robshrew1984 on Jun 11, 2007 21:14:48 GMT 1
Thats a bit sad isn't it??? Do you support the club implicitly or only buy their products as long as it caters to your tastes specifically??? Do you go into Marks & Spencer and complain because they don't make shirts exactly how you want them??? Define supporting the Club implicitly. unquestioning or unreserved; absolute: implicit trust; implicit obedience; implicit confidence
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Post by blueandamber on Jun 11, 2007 21:42:20 GMT 1
Apart from Shrewsbury Town FC, 1886 and the lion which represents us as being part of Shropshire. Along with the blue and amber. ? Fail to see how a lion represents us being from Shropshire. As for the rest, I said a while back we may as well drop the lion and keep the rest. Inspite of what you say the logo does not represent the Club, or who we are. Why? It still has the blue and amber of the old badge, stfc on it and the year we were founded, how does that not represent who we are and where we are from?
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Post by ShrewDaresWins on Jun 11, 2007 21:53:27 GMT 1
The so-called problem of not being able to copyright the loggerheads logo has come up before at other clubs, and it's not an impossible problem!
For example, the original Chelsea badge of the lion rampant / regardant is the crest of Earl Cadogan (Viscount Chelsea), and therefore the club could not stop people ripping it off because it didn't have exclusive ownership, & therefore copyright control.
Ken Bates brought in the CFC leaping lion badge in the 80's to enable Chelsea to copyright all of their merchandise, stating that the only way to do that was with a completely redesigned badge. Cue disgust from Chelsea fans who saw the similarities with Millwall's leaping lion crest.
Fast forward to 2005 & the new Chelsea board actually canvass the opinions of the fans, find that the vast majority want the old badge back, and commission a "stylised" version of the old badge. Full copyright control, and not too big a departure from the original.
I can't stand the new Salop badge, and rather than buy next season's shirt I've gone to Toffs & spent £40+ on the "Spinal Tap" shirt with a No.9 on the back. That's money lost by Shrewsbury.
If many more people feel the same I can see a return of the Loggerheads badge in the future. After all, what's the point in having copyright control over something that nobody particularly likes?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2007 21:55:19 GMT 1
Agree with Welshshrew, the badge hasn't grown on me.
It looks cheap and how many other clubs have a Lion on their badge? I want us to be unique and have something that represents the club.
I understand the need for a branded logo but surely the designers could have come up with something better than this?
The new shirt looks top notch but the new badge is a disgusting blotch on it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2007 22:00:37 GMT 1
I'm no expert on the club's needs for a new badge.
However I would guess that the major reason for the club changing to a badge that they havew legal protection over is not to prevent rip-off merchandising, but for the purpose of selling more 'large scale' advertising opportunities to big business.
A prime example would be the naming of the new stadium, which I can only presume the club are working hard on to make happen. If you were a big business and wanted to sponsor the stadium and have the club's badge on your website etc and you found out it wasn't copyrighted, I would imagine that an awful lot of issues could be raised from it and as such an uncopyrighted logo could put a spanner in the works.
Stadium naming rights can be worth several million to a club over a sustained period making them very important.
As I said though I'm certainly no expert on such matters.
For the record I quite like the new badge, although it's no loggerheads.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2007 22:08:41 GMT 1
Ant, I don't think anyone doesn't understand the financial implications of having a badge that can be copyrighted by the club.
Most people are up in arms because it looks poor, doesn't reflect any history of the club and is in no way unique.
I understand there was a rush to get it completed in time as Steve W is working (and doing a top job may I say) to a tight schedule to improve the corporate image of the club.
However, how hard would it have been to at least guage the opinion of fans on possible new badges at a home game?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2007 22:23:05 GMT 1
You misunderstand my post owd lad, I feel as though there is a significant number of people above who are saying the major reason for changing the badge is to prevent rip off merchants on ebay and in the narrows selling rival merchandise, and that this is just a minor financial issue.
I don't disagree that there may have been an opportunity to at least have some fan input, even if it was a case of the board picking their favoured four designs and the fans picking the best of those?
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Post by jaytee on Jun 11, 2007 22:28:16 GMT 1
The Lion bar stadium?......
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Post by bobbyc on Jun 11, 2007 22:34:34 GMT 1
However, how hard would it have been to at least guage the opinion of fans on possible new badges at a home game? that's what puzzles me about a lot of the opinions on this thread, especially TBH's (although i have a lot of respect for him and the hard work he does on behalf of my beloved fotball club). on many other issues, TBH has been an advocate of the club consulting the fans, and quite rightly standing up for what we think is important (e.g. amber seats, ticketing groups, etc). the club badge is, along with the team colours, motto, history, and stadium, one of the few constants in a football fan's life. managers, players, even chairmen come and go, but we have things that bind us together. so i'm puzzled as to why TBH has not advocated fan consultation about this horrendous new badge. although i don't know you personally TBH, i know you're not a silly fellow, so i'm just curious why you're so behind this badge when it's evident that it's so damn unprofessional and, quite frankly, embarrassing. as has been shown by the chelsea story, there are ways around this whole copyright thing. i don't buy the argument from the club one bit about not being able to keep the loggerheads, or at least a version of them. and as i've said before even if we DID have to ditch them entirely, why on earth accept such a blatantly lazy and uninspiring design? the whole saga just reeks of laziness, unfortunately. if the club cared about the fans it would at least have come up with a shortlist of designs and let us vote on them. didn't they learn anything from that silly shrew design (which was at least unique, even if it was a tad inappropriate).
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Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 11, 2007 22:41:12 GMT 1
Consultation wasn't necessary - just a modicum of taste, and the nous to realise that the club were being bent over a table by the bloke who cobbled it together. Not to worry - I am sure there will be plenty of unofficial merchandise about with badges to suit all other tastes.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Jun 11, 2007 22:43:08 GMT 1
I don't doubt for a second that people don't like the badge. Everyone is free to have their opinion.
I made the point about fonts because I think people are hanging on the clipart thing a bit too much. There are not many logos out there that are unique in the true spirit of the word, and when they are, plenty of people hate them, like the Olympic logo.
This is at least the 4th Shrewsbury Town logo in the last 28 years. At that rate we only have to worry about it for seven more years ;D
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Post by mattmw on Jun 11, 2007 22:43:14 GMT 1
I'm no expert on the club's needs for a new badge. However I would guess that the major reason for the club changing to a badge that they havew legal protection over is not to prevent rip-off merchandising, but for the purpose of selling more 'large scale' advertising opportunities to big business. A prime example would be the naming of the new stadium, which I can only presume the club are working hard on to make happen. If you were a big business and wanted to sponsor the stadium and have the club's badge on your website etc and you found out it wasn't copyrighted, I would imagine that an awful lot of issues could be raised from it and as such an uncopyrighted logo could put a spanner in the works. Thanks Ant, first time I'd thought about it in those terms. It would be great if the club could come out and put some facts and figures up to support this. I guess they are trying to develop and STFC corporate brand to sell to businesses and not having a copyrighted logo could leave them open to problems. Maybe the club could do a range of "classic" tshirts, polos etc in the club shop to allow the "loggerheads" fans a chance to buy some STFC products from the club, rather than have to go to Toff's or some less reputable company to buy them.
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Post by bobbyc on Jun 11, 2007 22:53:42 GMT 1
There are not many logos out there that are unique in the true spirit of the word with respect that's an incredible sweeping statement. we're talking about a football club... so: give me an example of a premiership or football league club (apart from shrewsbury town!) that doesn't have a unique and original logo. i'm happy to be proven wrong.. if another club uses off the shelf designs you can find in everyday microsoft applications then i stand corrected.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2007 23:03:27 GMT 1
There are not many logos out there that are unique in the true spirit of the word with respect that's an incredible sweeping statement. we're talking about a football club... so: give me an example of a premiership or football league club (apart from shrewsbury town!) that doesn't have a unique and original logo. i'm happy to be proven wrong.. if another club uses off the shelf designs you can find in everyday microsoft applications then i stand corrected. Clipart Bird Walsall badge
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2007 23:04:44 GMT 1
Sorry rob just playing devil's advocate there ;-)
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Post by bobbyc on Jun 11, 2007 23:07:46 GMT 1
lol good effort ant... but if we're being picky it's not actually the same design. even if it was 'inspired' by that bird, the rest of the logo's reasonably striking and perhaps walsall have more to do with a swallow than we do with a single lion. the key thing about shrews/salop/stfc is that its about 3 lions/leopards/loggerheads on the badge. well played tho and besides, who wants to be like walsall!! ;D
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Jun 11, 2007 23:25:21 GMT 1
give me an example of a premiership or football league club (apart from shrewsbury town!) that doesn't have a unique and original logo. I take your point, but the question would also need be how many use the heraldic crest of their local area? Frankly - Arsenal's gun looks like clip-art, so does Charlton's sword, Fulham's old badge looked like it had been designed using those magnetic fridge letters. Villa's old badge, Middlesborough's old badge & Chelsea's new badge look very similar to me in terms of the main artwork, just different styles of the same idea. and they all look similar to Crewe's artwork upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/91/Crewe_Alexadria_badge.gifHull City's Tiger looks very similar to a clipart tiger Leicester's fox is hardly a masterpiece Brighton's Seagull looks like it is drawn in crayon... STFC made a mistake to use such a common image, that is for sure. But there are plenty of badges that just scream "clip art" or were actually designed pre computer but would have used a basic image.
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Post by BlueTone on Jun 11, 2007 23:35:52 GMT 1
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Post by bobbyc on Jun 11, 2007 23:36:22 GMT 1
i agree that some clubs' badges certainly are of dubious quality! (swindon town anyone??!) and perhaps some of those you mention are clipart or an equivilant. in which case, fair play, although perhaps none are so blatant as town's.
however i think that the reason so many of us hate salop's new badge so much is due to the combination of:
a) clipart b) nothing (or a tenuous link at best) to do with stfc / ditching loggerheads.
if it was just one of those, then i don't think people would be so upset. but if you're suddenly given a lion and not only is it alien to you as a concept, but also it's a cheapo off the peg effort, then it's just a bit of an insult.
if there were clipart loggerheads, i may not be so upset! likewise if we're going to ditch the loggerheads, i would want something worthy and respectable to replace them. put the two negative things together however, and it's like being smacked in the face and kicked in the balls at the same time!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2007 23:40:01 GMT 1
Consultation wasn't necessary - just a modicum of taste, and the nous to realise that the club were being bent over a table by the bloke who cobbled it together. Not sure about that Sean. Apparantly the club were offered hundreds of designs before choosing this one. Yes, the mind does indeed boggle.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Jun 11, 2007 23:42:10 GMT 1
that's what puzzles me about a lot of the opinions on this thread, especially TBH's (although i have a lot of respect for him and the hard work he does on behalf of my beloved fotball club). on many other issues, TBH has been an advocate of the club consulting the fans, and quite rightly standing up for what we think is important (e.g. amber seats, ticketing groups, etc). the club badge is, along with the team colours, motto, history, and stadium, one of the few constants in a football fan's life. managers, players, even chairmen come and go, but we have things that bind us together. so i'm puzzled as to why TBH has not advocated fan consultation about this horrendous new badge. although i don't know you personally TBH, i know you're not a silly fellow, so i'm just curious why you're so behind this badge when it's evident that it's so damn unprofessional and, quite frankly, embarrassing. That is a good honest challenge, I respect that. 1) It is Blue and Amber 2) It incorporates 1886 3) The seats in all four stands of New Meadow are Blue and Amber 4) The club colours have been set as Blue and Amber, with pantones etc All those things I see as big positives for us. I am willing to give the new badge a while and see where we end up. Frankly I think any new badge will be controversial. The seats at new Meadow will be there for many many many years. On average we change our club bade at least every 10 years, sometimes more. The other side of the coin is that I genuinely don't know what the alternative is. I was told none of the designs using the Loggerheads made it through copyright searches, which is why they looked to a different way of doing it. Whether people like it or not is aesthetic choice, for me the seat colour was more institutional and I knew our case was watertight.
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Post by Pilch on Jun 12, 2007 0:03:20 GMT 1
i thought the trademark laws stopped you using similar designs that infringed on similar business's
i cant for the life of me think which other sports team that use the loggerheads would have complained that we cost them business
the classic example is apple
2 apples and no problem with trademarks until apple 2 decided to do music cue court case
until stfc decide to start putting up needless traffic lights or laying expensive waste of time cobbles or building underwater theatres then i cant see when the problem with the loggerheads was
maybe they tried obviously not hard enough
i still think the new logo is not a patch on the old one
mentioning the name twice seems totally bizzare
and the lion is and always will be a clip art joke
the circle is about the only decent part of the badge and whoever added the 80s shrew to it instead of the lion made a far more eye catching badge that the one we are lumbered with
i might grow to like it but so far i hate it more now that when i first saw it
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handsoffmeadowenjoyment
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Post by handsoffmeadowenjoyment on Jun 12, 2007 0:12:47 GMT 1
The new look has been designed by Shrewsbury Town season ticket holder Tony Brooks.
Town chief executive Steve Wellbeloved said: “The bottom line is that we have to be able to protect our brand. We can’t do that with our current logo, [glow=red,2,300]nor with tweaked versions of it that look any good,[/glow] so we’ve had to make a decisive change.
so we could use a "tweaked" version but they didn't look any good!
so is there nothing to stop the club copyrighting a loggerheads version?
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 12, 2007 8:46:54 GMT 1
Would have been nice to have seen the other designs...
So would you get into copyright trouble if you were to get some badges produced with the circle, with Shrewsbury Town Football Club - 1886 - and with the three Loggerheads in the middle? Maybe stick them on eBay, sell em to whoever wants to replace the new badge on their shirt or anything else from A-Line? Either sell them at cost or make a little profit that could then be used to sponsor a player or sommat? I am being daft or is this sommat folk would be interested in? Could you do something like that without getting into bother with the club?
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