Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2010 9:22:53 GMT 1
oh dear, yet another slap down for the lib dem rent boys by their conservative masters. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11507537seems to me that they are starting to learn that making wild and rediculous promises and silly gestures before an election, is very different to the hard realities faced by those whose decisions actually matter. perhaps a solution would be to abolish fees for households with an £80k income a year, but double it for those on say £44k a year. sounds fair to me.
|
|
|
Post by MarkRowley on Oct 10, 2010 10:38:01 GMT 1
The whole area of universities needs to be looked at where there are perhaps too many to start with, how funding should come to them, a need to move away from far too many students going to university to study degrees that do not correlate in any way with what job demand/skills there has been and will be in the market when they would be better equipped for the future by doing more vocational courses, and how student debt is accrued & repaid.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2010 11:56:58 GMT 1
Surely the shortage in university funding is due to the number of people now going on to study when it is not the most appropriate route for them.
Tony blair's idea to get 50% of people into higher education just doesn't sit with me, especially when more young people would benefit from a modern apprenticeship or going straight into work rather than 3yrs getting drunk coming out with a useless degree.
Don't get me wrong, the opportunity should be there for all to go to uni.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2010 13:07:44 GMT 1
Surely the shortage in university funding is due to the number of people now going on to study when it is not the most appropriate route for them. Tony blair's idea to get 50% of people into higher education just doesn't sit with me, especially when more young people would benefit from a modern apprenticeship or going straight into work rather than 3yrs getting drunk coming out with a useless degree. Don't get me wrong, the opportunity should be there for all to go to uni. did you go to university?
|
|
|
Post by indianwells on Oct 10, 2010 13:31:44 GMT 1
I didn't go to University, I simply wasn't clever enough. Looking at some of the drongo's going now it seems the bar has been lowered.
We've let our young people down badly. Those not up to standard should have been encouraged to train up as brickies, plumbers etc instead of being told yes, you are brilliant go and do Media Studies and get a degree. The degree they got is worth feck all as we now know.
|
|
|
Post by shrewsace on Oct 10, 2010 13:55:44 GMT 1
I didn't go to University, I simply wasn't clever enough. Looking at some of the drongo's going now it seems the bar has been lowered. We've let our young people down badly. Those not up to standard should have been encouraged to train up as brickies, plumbers etc instead of being told yes, you are brilliant go and do Media Studies and get a degree. The degree they got is worth feck all as we now know. What do you reckon the chances of Cameron or Clegg's offspring being deemed not clever enough to go to university and encouraged to train as a brickie are? Moreover, do you believe Clegg or Cameron themselves would ever have been deemed not clever enough for university, or is there some uncanny law of nature that means the rich produce future Prime Ministers and politicians while the poor give birth to future brickies and plumbers? I fear we're heading down the road of higher education and the opportunites that go with it once again being the preserve of the rich.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2010 14:10:38 GMT 1
Surely the shortage in university funding is due to the number of people now going on to study when it is not the most appropriate route for them. Tony blair's idea to get 50% of people into higher education just doesn't sit with me, especially when more young people would benefit from a modern apprenticeship or going straight into work rather than 3yrs getting drunk coming out with a useless degree. Don't get me wrong, the opportunity should be there for all to go to uni. did you go to university? I did, first class degree in physics Yourself?
|
|
|
Post by Pilch on Oct 10, 2010 14:44:37 GMT 1
i got a cse 3 in physics i cant see the difference although i must admit you did seem to get more gravity on your golf balls on the putting green than i did
|
|
|
Post by siabod on Oct 10, 2010 15:30:45 GMT 1
Surely the shortage in university funding is due to the number of people now going on to study when it is not the most appropriate route for them. Tony blair's idea to get 50% of people into higher education just doesn't sit with me, especially when more young people would benefit from a modern apprenticeship or going straight into work rather than 3yrs getting drunk coming out with a useless degree. At least they didn't show on unemployment figures then.
|
|
poirot
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 243
|
Post by poirot on Oct 10, 2010 15:58:42 GMT 1
Whatever the debate about University funding, numbers, courses etc, isn't the point here that it appeares that the Lib Dem's, including Sickly Nicky, are going to do one of the biggest U-turns ever seen by man?
Their stand on University funding was a 'flagship' policy on which they commited themselves to the voters. If they betray this principal and vote for a huge increase in top up fees is their (and Clegg's in particular) position completely untenable?
|
|
|
Post by shrewroo on Oct 10, 2010 16:05:42 GMT 1
I went on to study washing machines at Aberystwyth and came out with 45 degrees, so I'm overall in favour of the proposed motion.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2010 16:13:11 GMT 1
Surely the shortage in university funding is due to the number of people now going on to study when it is not the most appropriate route for them. Tony blair's idea to get 50% of people into higher education just doesn't sit with me, especially when more young people would benefit from a modern apprenticeship or going straight into work rather than 3yrs getting drunk coming out with a useless degree. Don't get me wrong, the opportunity should be there for all to go to uni. Would agree with that I was going to go because I thought it was the done thing, not necessarily because I wanted to. At the last minute I had a change of heart and the only reason I regret not going is because of the social side that I missed out on. I know plenty of people who have done various degrees but in the majority of cases their life has not been improved by doing so. They are in careers which are completely unrelated to their degrees and saddled with a lot of debt. When I ask them if they regret going most of them have said no but the only reason being the social side of it. Is that legacy of getting an increasing number of people into university? I can understand people going to uni if they need to achieve some qualification to get into a certain line of work. However to me there are too many vague courses which are a continuation of school/college and seems to be keeping people in education for the sake of it. Regarding universities, correct me Im wrong but havent the number in Britain increased dramatically? Im sure I read/heard somewhere recently that universities may need to close/merge in the future?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2010 16:46:25 GMT 1
did you go to university? I did, first class degree in physics Yourself? first class honours in nursing studies. almost as interesting as physics i imagine Tony Blair tried to give all young people the chance to go to university, as shrewsace alludes to (i think) to break down the traditional social barriers and stop university being a toffs only social event.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2010 17:45:46 GMT 1
I,m all for those who are deemed intelligent enough going to University, but it seems ever man and his dog is deemed intelligent enough these days. More places, more courses, ( media studies, performing arts, etc etc.) Cut out the nebulous courses, reduce the number of places and help those who go come out with a worthwhile qualification and little debt. For others increase places on vocational training courses so that they too achieve something worthwhile. Or is it a ploy to reduce the number on the unemployed register?
|
|
|
Post by Bob Rickerton on Oct 10, 2010 18:11:13 GMT 1
Whatever the debate about University funding, numbers, courses etc, isn't the point here that it appeares that the Lib Dem's, including Sickly Nicky, are going to do one of the biggest U-turns ever seen by man? Their stand on University funding was a 'flagship' policy on which they commited themselves to the voters. If they betray this principal and vote for a huge increase in top up fees is their (and Clegg's in particular) position completely untenable? Aside from the implications for future students, this is very politically interesting. Given how much of their electoral success has been built on their stance on tuition fee's, voting to increase the fee limit could see any chance of future electoral success completely disappear, even more so than it already will. Even Nick Clegg could be vulnerable, as his seat lies in an area of Sheffield with over 5,000 student voters.
|
|
|
Post by nicko on Oct 10, 2010 18:35:11 GMT 1
Surely the shortage in university funding is due to the number of people now going on to study when it is not the most appropriate route for them. Interesting thought. I've just started OU and at the day school yesterday I was surprised at the number of young people I spoke to who have taken the OU route to a degree as opposed to the more 'traditional' route. The most cited cause of going through the OU was that they were unable to get a place this year, second was funding. All the young people I spoke to were very positive, focused and just happy to be doing some HE. Regarding some of the comments about the amount of intelligence to do a degree. I don't consider myself the brightest of sparks and I'm the least academic person you'll ever meet, but I have a degree which goes to show what sheer bl00dy hard work and bl00dy-mindedness can achieve. I also disagree that there is a useless degree. Having a degree shows potential employers that you are capable of achieving a higher form of education. I have a mate who got a 'Richard' in Media Studies, but works in HR getting the job on the basis of a degree education. I realise all this has nothing to do with Matron initial post, so do carry on....
|
|
|
Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Oct 10, 2010 20:11:16 GMT 1
Things have changed so much, when I left school in 1965 only about 15% of leavers went to University but you could get a good job with 5 'O' levels, or there were plenty of apprenticeships if you were not academically inclined.
Now a degree seems to be the entry qualification for even mundane jobs and apprenticeships have almost vanished.
If fewer people can get to Uni then employers will have to lower their requirements.
|
|
|
Post by shrewsace on Oct 10, 2010 20:14:48 GMT 1
I know someone who has a media studies degree and is working in a media related job. It'd be interested to hear the views of any Town fans who have a media degree as it always seems to be singled out as a non-degree, much like diversity officer is always singled ou as a non-job, usually by people who have no idea what either entails but are parroting their stock Daily Mail opinions. Are all non-vocational qualifications worthless, how about English Literature, Ancient History, Classical Studies, Music etc? I mean, a media degree could lead to a job at somewhere like Carlton TV, and who knows where that might lead, eh? Nevermind, with all these 'free schools' on the way perhaps kids in future will study a currriculum set by Tesco and moulded into the perfect employee for said organisation over eleven glorious years.
|
|
|
Post by SeanBroseley on Oct 11, 2010 12:34:02 GMT 1
Things have changed so much, when I left school in 1965 only about 15% of leavers went to University but you could get a good job with 5 'O' levels, or there were plenty of apprenticeships if you were not academically inclined. Now a degree seems to be the entry qualification for even mundane jobs and apprenticeships have almost vanished. If fewer people can get to Uni then employers will have to lower their requirements. If fewer people go to university in this country then UK employers will complain that they can't get the staff and need foreign workers. They will then either move abroad to where the staff are or bring the staff in to the UK from abroad. Or both. There are worse things to get in debt but there is this acceptance of debt as being the norm which is a cycle that needs breaking.
|
|
|
Post by WindsorShrew on Oct 11, 2010 14:57:01 GMT 1
One of the few things I liked about Labour was a commitment to make University education more readily available to the masses. But Labour being Labour they had to set a target and I seem to remember that target was 50% ( ) of youngsters, however as with most good ideas Labour seem to have no idea what balance needed to be struck and of course how to fund such an undertaking. The issue of Degree Subjects is worth a thread on its own. When I say balance I believe Labour did poorly when it comes to apprenticeships, the NVQ system is not an adequate replacement and rarely produces any talent (imo). Thus we now have a plethora of people obtaining degrees in random non hard subjects that frankly would be more suited and a better asset to the country as an apprentice. On a selfish note I hope that any changes don't occur for two years when my youngest will have left Uni.
|
|
|
Post by nicko on Oct 12, 2010 8:12:25 GMT 1
Thus we now have a plethora of people obtaining degrees in random non hard subjects that frankly would be more suited and a better asset to the country as an apprentice. What's a "non hard" degree Stu? Media Studies? Fashion? A standard still has to be reached and students still have to learn and develop new skills to reach that standard. That's the point in my opinion; studying for a degree shows potential employers that you have developed skills that are useful. Like I posted up thread my mate got a job in HR management on the back of his 3rd in Media. As for apprenticeships. There are some knocking about, but we don't have many because we don't mass produce anything anymore. Even if we did technology has moved on so much that machines like Programmable Logic Controllers build most things for us. In my main job the skills I learned 25 years ago are largely redundant (as are a lot of my RAF/civvie ex-colleagues). Technology has seen to that, some of the systems that I work on these days are monitored from laptops and usually fixed by a re-boot. If not we just change a box and send it back to the manufacturer because it's cheaper. The days of checking the voltage drop across a resister have long gone. The days of the old style apprenticeship have been superseded by technology.
|
|
|
Post by WindsorShrew on Oct 12, 2010 12:33:04 GMT 1
I did, first class degree in physics Yourself? Pab was studying for a 2-1 in bull but failed his 1st year so progressed onto a general qualification in drivel and a lifetime achievement in antagonizing.
|
|
|
Post by WindsorShrew on Oct 12, 2010 12:37:38 GMT 1
What's a "non hard" degree Stu? Media Studies? Fashion? Nick it's not meant to imply that any course is not hard, during my service days our officers had to obtain "hard" degrees such as Engineer, Physics, Maths. Non hard dgrees would be media studies ( a poor example), politics etc. Hard degrees got you into the engineering side of things other degrees got you into logistics - infantry etc. Sorry if the post was not clear, I did not mean to belittle getting any degree.
|
|
|
Post by SESalopian on Oct 12, 2010 14:05:28 GMT 1
I,m all for those who are deemed intelligent enough going to University, but it seems ever man and his dog is deemed intelligent enough these days. More places, more courses, ( media studies, performing arts, etc etc.) I did a Media related course at University and worked in the Media industry in a number of positions for a few years - from broadcast libraries to post production suites. Fair enough, I do think that some people think that Media is an easy option, however, as with everything (and every course) it's up to the individual to determine the level to which he/she is going to commit. I spent a lot of time watching tv/films, and wrote a 10,000 dissertation on Moving Images in Site Specific Installations, which required a fair bit of research into cultural theories, contexts, technical requrements of projectors, etc as well as a general overview of the history of art. I believe that a policy of charging up to £10,000/year would cause a number of people to think twice about going to university. A 30-40k debt at the end of the course is massive, to think that you could buy half of T@@ford for that, makes you wonder.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2010 16:27:10 GMT 1
Seems to me that this is being over looked here. of coarse, in february the lib dems really didnt imagine for a moment that they would be in power ( ), so could sign anything and promise the world with little worry about looking utter fools when the harsh reality of goverment kicks in.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2010 17:30:40 GMT 1
Agree with you on this Pab, the Lib Dems are making a huge u-turn on one of their most important pre-election policies. Not very impressive to say the least.
|
|
|
Post by WindsorShrew on Oct 12, 2010 17:38:14 GMT 1
Has there been any indication of when Unis will be allowed to free charge ? This is going to sting isn't it......
|
|
|
Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Oct 12, 2010 18:09:57 GMT 1
While I have no desire to take the Lid Dem side on this, I think that the policy research you can do with the meagre resources of a third party is of a different order to what can be done in government using the full might of the Civil Service.
What seemed like a perfectly workable option when drafted by a teenage researcher may not look so good when all the options are investigated in depth.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2010 19:36:31 GMT 1
Has there been any indication of when Unis will be allowed to free charge ? This is going to sting isn't it...... just another stealth tax really. shocking display of new politics if u ask me
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2010 9:30:06 GMT 1
Now we just need to start talking about greedy NHS bonuses Link------> £200MM
|
|