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Post by Steve Rogerson on Aug 5, 2010 9:30:45 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2010 9:36:42 GMT 1
Do you do anything on here bar link to your own articles nowadays?
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Post by Steve Rogerson on Aug 5, 2010 9:50:31 GMT 1
Do you do anything on here bar link to your own articles nowadays? Yes, but you can't say these aren't relevant.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2010 10:02:23 GMT 1
No I can't, and while it's the mods job to decide what is fair on here and what's not I think you're taking the pi$$
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Post by Exkeeper on Aug 5, 2010 10:27:39 GMT 1
No surprises there - a few digs at our esteemed Chairman. The same Chairman that was given a spontaneous round of applause on Monday evening, when GT told 200+ supporters, just how much he had done for the club.
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Post by RBA on Aug 5, 2010 10:44:21 GMT 1
I think your article on favourites for Div 2 is pretty good and I think Bradford will certainly be up therE I think your article on Graham Turners return and especially on RW is partial and in my view unfair
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Post by nicko on Aug 5, 2010 10:50:29 GMT 1
No I can't, and while it's the mods job to decide what is fair on here and what's not I think you're taking the **** Leave him alone. He's a Town fan, this a Town message board and all sorts gets posted on here. If you don't like, don't read, easy.
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Aug 5, 2010 11:01:16 GMT 1
Where is the dig against Roland?
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Post by Steve Rogerson on Aug 5, 2010 11:06:34 GMT 1
Where is the dig against Roland? I believe they are referring to the Graham Turner article that I wrote back in June. You may have already seen it as I posted a link to it when I wrote it and there was a little bit of a discussion about it on here then, but from the league two report there is a link to it both in the "read-on" box and in the bit about Shrewsbury.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2010 11:11:23 GMT 1
No I can't, and while it's the mods job to decide what is fair on here and what's not I think you're taking the **** Leave him alone. He's a Town fan, this a Town message board and all sorts gets posted on here. If you don't like, don't read, easy. It's my opinion Nick, nothing wrong with that. Steve has the chance to defend his position just like he does when he slates the chairman or doesn't stand for a minutes' silence on rememberance day. If you don't like what I write you can ignore it too.
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Aug 5, 2010 11:13:30 GMT 1
" doesn't stand for a minutes' silence on rememberance day"
WTF!??!?!
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Post by heavenlyshrew on Aug 5, 2010 11:17:15 GMT 1
" doesn't stand for a minutes' silence on rememberance day" WTF!??!?! You were defending this bloke 10 mins ago get a grip will you.
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Aug 5, 2010 11:21:11 GMT 1
I didn't know about that!
I wasnt defending him, was asking where the dig at Roland was in the season preview.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Aug 5, 2010 12:06:51 GMT 1
"The club’s current problems though started in 1996 when Roland Wycherley over as chairman."
What a lot of nonsense. I don't understand how Steve can be an intelligent fellow and yet be so uninformed.
Since Mr Wycherley over STFC the following clubs have gone into administration
Doncaster 1997 Millwall 1997 Bournemouth 1997, 2008 Darlington 1997, 2009 Chester 1998, 2009 Hereford 1998 Portsmouth 1999, 2010 Crystal Palace 1999, 2010 Oxford Utd 1999 Swindon 2000, 2002 Scarborough 2000 Hull 2001 QPR 2001 Chesterfield 2001 Leicester 2002 Barnsley 2002 Carlisle 2002 Notts County 2002 Bury 2002 Bradford 2002 Port Vale 2002 Lincoln City 2002 Swansea City 2002 York 2002 Halifax Town 2002, 2008 Derby 2003 Ipswich 2003 Huddersfield 2003 Oldham 2003 MK Dons 2003 Wimbledon 2003 Wrexham 2004 Cambridge 2005 Rotherham 2006, 2008 Leeds United 2007 Boston United 2007 Southampton 2008 Luton 2008 Stockport 2009
So that includes Hereford, Oxford Utd, Chesterfield, Bury, Bradford, Port Vale, Lincoln City, Rotherham and Stockport from our division this year.
York, Wrexham, Luton, Cambridge, Darlington all languish in the BSP and Halifax, Chester & Scarborough all but went to the wall.
Roland's tenure has not been perfect, and at times has been really disappointing (like going down to the BSP), but let's see it in perspective.
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Post by SheffieldShrew on Aug 5, 2010 12:57:08 GMT 1
Good post TBH.
I hadn't realised so many clubs had gone into administration looking back, it's a scary number. There will be plenty more this season as well.
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Post by Steve Rogerson on Aug 5, 2010 13:00:45 GMT 1
The thing is TBH you know very well that what I am looking at is not Shrewsbury's performance compared with other clubs but comparing Shrewsbury's performance before Wycherley over (when we were basically a tier two or three club with the odd foray into the fourth tier) to our performance since he over, when we've been a tier four club with one brief foray into the Conference.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Aug 5, 2010 13:11:53 GMT 1
The thing is TBH you know very well that what I am looking at is not Shrewsbury's performance compared with other clubs but comparing Shrewsbury's performance before Wycherley over (when we were basically a tier two or three club with the odd foray into the fourth tier) to our performance since he over, when we've been a tier four club with one brief foray into the Conference. "Like with like" Steve. Questions for you. 1) Do you have any idea of the financial situation Mr Wycherley inherited? 2) Do you have any idea of the financial situation now? 3) Were you party to the negotiations regarding the move to a new stadium? 4) Within your analysis of our club's position have you taken into account the changes to the distribution of gate receipts of home / away clubs which changed in 1983: what is the overall direction of STFC since then? 5) The influence of the Taylor report causing redevelopment of larger stadia 6) The influence of the premier league / TV money etc: Last season Norwich, Charlton and Leeds were in League One. Who is the smallest club in the Championship now?
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Post by Steve Rogerson on Aug 5, 2010 13:24:54 GMT 1
The thing is TBH you know very well that what I am looking at is not Shrewsbury's performance compared with other clubs but comparing Shrewsbury's performance before Wycherley over (when we were basically a tier two or three club with the odd foray into the fourth tier) to our performance since he over, when we've been a tier four club with one brief foray into the Conference. "Like with like" Steve. Questions for you. 1) Do you have any idea of the financial situation Mr Wycherley inherited? 2) Do you have any idea of the financial situation now? 3) Were you party to the negotiations regarding the move to a new stadium? 4) Within your analysis of our club's position have you taken into account the changes to the distribution of gate receipts of home / away clubs which changed in 1983: what is the overall direction of STFC since then? 5) The influence of the Taylor report causing redevelopment of larger stadia 6) The influence of the premier league / TV money etc: Last season Norwich, Charlton and Leeds were in League One. Who is the smallest club in the Championship now? I am looking at our performance as a football team not as a business.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Aug 5, 2010 13:37:19 GMT 1
I am looking at our performance as a football team not as a business. What to teams pay players? Fairydust? Look at this years League One, only Dagenham and maybe Hartlepool are "smaller" clubs than us.
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Post by Fingers on Aug 5, 2010 13:46:02 GMT 1
"Like with like" Steve. Questions for you. 1) Do you have any idea of the financial situation Mr Wycherley inherited? 2) Do you have any idea of the financial situation now? 3) Were you party to the negotiations regarding the move to a new stadium? 4) Within your analysis of our club's position have you taken into account the changes to the distribution of gate receipts of home / away clubs which changed in 1983: what is the overall direction of STFC since then? 5) The influence of the Taylor report causing redevelopment of larger stadia 6) The influence of the premier league / TV money etc: Last season Norwich, Charlton and Leeds were in League One. Who is the smallest club in the Championship now? I am looking at our performance as a football team not as a business. Since 92/93 it is impossible to view football clubs other than businesses.
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Post by Steve Rogerson on Aug 5, 2010 13:47:32 GMT 1
I am looking at our performance as a football team not as a business. What to teams pay players? Fairydust? Look at this years League One, only Dagenham and maybe Hartlepool are "smaller" clubs than us. The point is that a football club is not like any other business. The success of a football club business is viewed by the success of the team on the pitch. The rest of the business should be geared to making the team more successful. How well that has been done is thus reflected in results. In Wycherley's case, the team has done significantly worse since he over than it did before. That is therefore a failure of the club in its primary aim as a business and the fault of that failure has to lie in the hands of the person at the top, and that is Wycherley.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Aug 5, 2010 13:59:31 GMT 1
In Wycherley's case, the team has done significantly worse since he over than it did before. That is therefore a failure of the club in its primary aim as a business and the fault of that failure has to lie in the hands of the person at the top, and that is Wycherley. But you are not comparing that relative success or failure with either: 1) Equivalent businesses during that timeframe OR 2) Considering the trading conditions of that timeframe Considering the relative fortunes of Hereford, Chester and Wrexham in that timeframe I think you can count Roland's tenure as at least a moderate success and that we are still here and still breathing, have never been in administration and are set up to be in league one again if only we could win the final game (literally, twice in 3 years). Some car makers made a very moderate profit over the last few years. Within the market and compared to competitors that is a huge success. Some banks have made a very moderate profit over the last few years. Within the market and compared to competitors that is a huge success. As an aside: Roland made the decision to keep the youth system going even though we went down to the conference and I think only West Ham, Leeds, Liverpool and Chelsea contributed more players to the 2010 world cup squad than Shrewsbury Town. When was that ever the case?
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Post by nickjonesey on Aug 5, 2010 14:03:12 GMT 1
I see your one man campaign continues unabated. Do you ever think that everyone else would like to have seen more success on the pitch too? (Including Mr Chairman) The role of the players/ managers/ directors/ chair is inextricably linked in the modern business that is football. It must be really lonely on your planet
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Post by Fingers on Aug 5, 2010 14:04:00 GMT 1
In terms of league position we are in a worse off state - that is evident.
However sometimes in life you need to take a step back or even several before going forward. Perhaps RW could be seen as a visionary?
Better
Stadium Corporate Facilities Marketing Attendances
Off the pitch we have made huge strides and although the Gay Meadow was a quirky ground I don't really miss it now. I miss the location but certainly not the dump that it was.
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Post by Steve Rogerson on Aug 5, 2010 14:07:22 GMT 1
In Wycherley's case, the team has done significantly worse since he over than it did before. That is therefore a failure of the club in its primary aim as a business and the fault of that failure has to lie in the hands of the person at the top, and that is Wycherley. But you are not comparing that relative success or failure with either: 1) Equivalent businesses during that timeframe OR 2) Considering the trading conditions of that timeframe There are three and a half divisions of teams that are doing better than us in footballing terms at the moment. Just comparing us with teams that are doing worse is silly. I am at least comparing Shrewsbury Town under Wycherley to Shrewsbury Town before Wycherley, which is lot more like for like than what you are trying to do.
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Post by Fingers on Aug 5, 2010 14:10:04 GMT 1
But you are not comparing that relative success or failure with either: 1) Equivalent businesses during that timeframe OR 2) Considering the trading conditions of that timeframe There are three and a half divisions of teams that are doing better than us in footballing terms at the moment. Just comparing us with teams that are doing worse is silly. I am at least comparing Shrewsbury Town under Wycherley to Shrewsbury Town before Wycherley, which is lot more like for like than what you are trying to do. Without the facts that argument is non existant. Compare Pompey with various men in charge. Compare Man United pre Glazer and with Glazer - better position? Compare Liverpool pre H&G to now - better position?
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Aug 5, 2010 14:13:27 GMT 1
There are three and a half divisions of teams that are doing better than us in footballing terms at the moment. Just comparing us with teams that are doing worse is silly. I am at least comparing Shrewsbury Town under Wycherley to Shrewsbury Town before Wycherley, which is lot more like for like than what you are trying to do. No you are not. You are comparing Shrewsbury Town pre 1983 when all league gate receipts were shared with Shrewsbury town post 1983 when the away team ceased to get a share of home attendances. During that time we have seen many of the smaller clubs drop divisions and be kept there by financial restrictions, and larger clubs grow in stature. It used to be when we went to Leicester away we would get half the money. now if we get to the championship they keep their 25,000 gate receipts and we keep our 10,000. If you don't understand the difference that makes to our goal of producing a successful first team then you are clearly trying not to. No-one is denying in footballing terms the last 15 years have been extremely tough for us. What I am saying is that the reasons for that on the whole are completely out of the hands of Mr Wycherley and to exclude them from any part of the discussion is ridiculous. And when you look how the same forces have savaged many local and similar sized clubs to us you see the relative success of what we do have. It is like someone criticising the number of games you attend without first taking into account the fact you live in Nottingham. The only thing he can really be accused of is picking the wrong managers, and each time he appeared to pick the right one at the time.
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Post by blum on Aug 5, 2010 14:15:17 GMT 1
The thing is TBH you know very well that what I am looking at is not Shrewsbury's performance compared with other clubs but comparing Shrewsbury's performance before Wycherley over (when we were basically a tier two or three club with the odd foray into the fourth tier) to our performance since he over, when we've been a tier four club with one brief foray into the Conference. Hmmm, I was a bit impartial reading this at the start (although I raised an eyebrow about rememberance Sunday comment).... however, how can you possibly compare this as a like for like situation? I wouldnt like to think where we'd be if it wasnt for RW.. We'd probably be stuck at GM still watched by the 2.5 to 3K faithful. A crumbling ground like Edgar Street etc. STFC are doing okay as both a football club and a business IMO, okay I am sick of Div4 football and yes things might have been managed better at times but get real, just look at the list of clubs who have very nearly gone to the wall, clubs much bigger than us. Take Bradford, not too many years ago they were in the Premiership. Things have changed in the football world, just look at some of the MASSIVE clubs in League 1 and you must concede you are wrong!
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Post by onthetrain92 on Aug 5, 2010 14:29:40 GMT 1
I am looking at our performance as a football team not as a business. What to teams pay players? Fairydust? Look at this years League One, only Dagenham and maybe Hartlepool are "smaller" clubs than us. I beg to differ on that one, Walsall, Bournemouth, Yeovil, Colchester, Brentford, Leyton Orient, Carlisle, Exeter, Rochdale are all the equivelent or lower in my eyes.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Aug 5, 2010 14:36:49 GMT 1
I beg to differ on that one, Walsall, Bournemouth, Yeovil, Colchester, Brentford, Leyton Orient, Carlisle, Exeter, Rochdale are all the equivelent or lower in my eyes. Equivalent yes, of course. That is not what I said. Lower? Well maybe Exeter and Dale too, but you take the point. In terms of size we should be top 6 league two or bottom 6 league one, and for 2 in the last 4 seasons we have been. Look also at the "Promoted" league two clubs in the last few seasons and how many of them actually stick there.
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