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Post by rglenshrew on Jun 27, 2010 19:49:48 GMT 1
I heard the statistic that only 35% of the players that play in the Premiership are English. The Premiership is so good because of the foreigners who make it up. Foreign Managers will naturally bring in foreign players, we will soon have an England team made up of Championship players. I don't think many Premiership players have played well in World Cup to date apart from Howard and Donavan for the USA, even Torres has been poor It would make the young players be able to play every week instead of rotten away on the bench/reserves. How Joe Hart needs to go out on loan to get a first team place bemuses me. That's what Germany are doing - playing a young side who are only going to get better and looking to the future when England are climbing onto Gerrard and Lampard.
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Post by stockportershrew on Jun 27, 2010 19:49:53 GMT 1
Anyone who believes changing the coach will make any diffence must be living in cloud cuckoo land. England players have no pride or passion about playing for their country. They are all just a bunch of Premier League overpaid attention seeking so called celeberety wasters. you're right about the manager but pride and passion will not get you that far if you lacking in basic technique. Kevin Keegan's England were supposedly all about passion and they were dreadful too.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2010 19:59:00 GMT 1
Germany didn't employ great technique against us.
They employed pace and systematically advantage of the poor positioning, lack of organisation and missing speed of england.. Hell STFC don't even defend that badly and to be consistantly caught out the same way...
Been a while since i've seen an international side conceded a launched twice bouncing goal kick.
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Post by stockportershrew on Jun 27, 2010 20:53:00 GMT 1
Germany didn't employ great technique against us. They employed pace and systematically advantage of the poor positioning, lack of organisation and missing speed of england.. Hell STFC don't even defend that badly and to be consistantly caught out the same way... Been a while since i've seen an international side conceded a launched twice bouncing goal kick. Wasn't thinking specifically about today more in general. Today pretty much everything was wrong.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jun 27, 2010 21:58:35 GMT 1
If a manager of Capello's reputation and record could not sort out the team then it's doubtful whether anyone can.
Nevertheless, I'm disappointed, to say the least, that a traditional Italian coach is unable to organise a functioning defence.
Even more depressing is the prediction from Trevor Brooking that the upcoming cadre of English players are not as good as the present lot. He said that we will have to wait for the current under 17's to mature.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2010 22:51:11 GMT 1
On the bright side, I don't think it will be long before Joe wins his first competetive start and 500k comes to STFC - what date is the first euro qualifyer?
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Post by blood red shrews on Jun 27, 2010 22:58:23 GMT 1
Think they said earlier September 3rd and there's a friendly against Hungary before then at some point. Hopefully see Joe and alot of other youngsters be given the chance in the Euro qualifiers.
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Post by Stewie Shrew on Jun 27, 2010 23:08:39 GMT 1
The only downside to that is that it looks like Shay Given will be fit for the start of the season, so I can see Joe not being England number 1 as he wont be for City
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2010 23:20:33 GMT 1
It's about time we realised that we are not one of the top sides in the world, far from it. We are slowly being overtaken by many African nations, and even the good old U.S.of A made us look pedestrian at times. Our national game needs to be overhauled from top to bottom, and this will take time. We pride ourselves that, over the years, our clubs have won the big trophy, the European Cup that was, many times, but seem unable to grasp the fact that these teams are not English. They play in the English Premier League, yes, but are made up of approx 70% foreign players. Maybe we could do better if we reduce the number of foreign players in our teams, and give English talent a chance. And why is it, when the big tournaments start, ( World Cup. European Championships) our players are injured or look so far off the pace its like watching donkeys running through treacle.( see J. Terry. M. Upson et al) Maybe we, like other Leagues in Europe, would benefit from a mid winter break. Mind you, if we did we would never fit in all the F.A. Cup, League Cup games scheduled. And, knowing what our greedy clubs are like, it would just present an opportunity for a money spinning tour to Asia or beyond. WAKE UP, FFS, and do something about it, now. The game needs a radical overhaul from grass routes levels upwards, and we need someone with the b******s to tell the F. A. the facts. It will take time, and we may need to take a step backwards to go forward, but if we don,t, then i can see another forty years of hurt coming our way.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2010 23:25:14 GMT 1
[/url] We should take Craig Johnston up on his offer. [/quote] He's spot in fairness, until the bunch of ****s that is the FA are replaced in wholesale fashion we will continue to under achieve, as their erroneous policies and systems are not just affecting players now but are impacting on the next generations coming through. He's also right about kids though. The vast majority of kids when I was young would come straight home from from school, get changed and be out for a couple hours of footie before tea - now everyone's on their Xbox and Wii[/quote] Seems like loads of football still being played by the younger generation, every time I go to play at Power League or Birmingham Uni each week there are plenty having a kick around anyway.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 27, 2010 23:37:20 GMT 1
None of this has been a real surprise to me: the best chance we had of World Cup success in recent years was 2002. There is a serious lack of quality in the current squad, and then Capello has not made best use of what he has had available: desparately ringing round players who had retired, taking injured players.
I also think that at these competitions you have to play three in central midfield. So I would have all England representative teams play that way.
John Terry was absolutely dreadful.
Roy Hodgson for manager.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 27, 2010 23:40:07 GMT 1
If a manager of Capello's reputation and record could not sort out the team then it's doubtful whether anyone can. Nevertheless, I'm disappointed, to say the least, that a traditional Italian coach is unable to organise a functioning defence. Even more depressing is the prediction from Trevor Brooking that the upcoming cadre of English players are not as good as the present lot. He said that we will have to wait for the current under 17's to mature. Brooking is an interesting character in all of this, I don't think he would disagree with much of Craig Johnston's views. I suspect he is correct, I don't see a serous challenge until 2018/2022 at the world Cup.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 28, 2010 0:30:33 GMT 1
Nearly all the German players - as far as I can tell - play in their domestic league
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Post by blood red shrews on Jun 28, 2010 0:43:55 GMT 1
Think they all play in Germany. Most of them have played regular Champions league football which is a big part in them being so calm and assured on the ball.....unlike us
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Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 28, 2010 0:55:01 GMT 1
He's spot in fairness, until the bunch of ****s that is the FA are replaced in wholesale fashion we will continue to under achieve, as their erroneous policies and systems are not just affecting players now but are impacting on the next generations coming through. He's also right about kids though. The vast majority of kids when I was young would come straight home from from school, get changed and be out for a couple hours of footie before tea - now everyone's on their Xbox and Wii Seems like loads of football still being played by the younger generation, every time I go to play at Power League or Birmingham Uni each week there are plenty having a kick around anyway. And perhaps therein lies some hope - if they can get exposed to some quality coaching and decided they want to work at it to get better. Most teams England play against seem to have a better touch.
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Post by rglenshrew on Jun 28, 2010 1:57:42 GMT 1
Seems like loads of football still being played by the younger generation, every time I go to play at Power League or Birmingham Uni each week there are plenty having a kick around anyway. And perhaps therein lies some hope - if they can get exposed to some quality coaching and decided they want to work at it to get better. Most teams England play against seem to have a better touch. England only have 1,000 coaches who hold a Uefa A/Pro licence, Spain have over 12,000 and Germany have over 6,000. Read an interesting article about that a month or so ago, will dig the link out tomorrow. Incidently I think Scotland have about 20. Sums it up!
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Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 28, 2010 7:53:10 GMT 1
And, the England coaches are working at a professional and semi professional level rather than with kids.
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Post by mrbunny on Jun 28, 2010 8:35:45 GMT 1
I suppose we could always tap up Arteta and give us some creative flair as Spain don't need him.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 28, 2010 9:01:45 GMT 1
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Post by shrew4life on Jun 28, 2010 9:25:13 GMT 1
And perhaps therein lies some hope - if they can get exposed to some quality coaching and decided they want to work at it to get better. Most teams England play against seem to have a better touch. England only have 1,000 coaches who hold a Uefa A/Pro licence, Spain have over 12,000 and Germany have over 6,000. Read an interesting article about that a month or so ago, will dig the link out tomorrow. Incidently I think Scotland have about 20. Sums it up! The FA should be giving out grants to help coaches get there badges as it can be very expensive. There's no doubt the other nations have a better touch and technical ability on the ball. We must be one of the worst at that part of the game. Time for the FA to get some balls and get some regulations in that there must be a certain amount of young English players in the 18 man squad every week. Also what's happened to that Burton football center of development?
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Post by timgallon on Jun 28, 2010 9:44:43 GMT 1
The overall statistics analysis: • Wayne Rooney has lost the ball by being tackled in possession more often than any other player at the 2010 world cup finals • Rooney also completed only 55% of his passes for England against Germany - the lowest rate in the game These stats must be wrong. They are making them up because he plays for Man Utd!
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Post by stfcfan87 on Jun 28, 2010 11:25:35 GMT 1
There's so many things that went wrong and i don't think anyone person was to blame.
I was excited when capello was appointed, I thought finally we've got a proper high quality manager who is tough and hard and will pick the team and formation he wants and will stick to it regardless of the media and egos. We qualified spectacuarly but it wasn't quite what i was expecting still in terms of formation and selection and this world cup's gone totally wrong.
I was really hoping that capello would sort out the ever ongoing problem of the fact that lampard and gerrard can't play together and that only one should be picked but that's not happened. why do we constantly try and fit a selection around ensuring big name players get in? The big difference between ourselves and germany was that they have a definite system and formation that they've had for years and the players fit into it. The likes of klose and podolski have had very poor domestic seasons and have not played reguarly for their clubs, yet because they fit into the national team's system, they are picked.
For my mind I think something clearly went wrong off the pitch in the england camp between the end of qualifying and the start of the world cup. Maybe it was the amount of time the players and the coaching staff had to spend together in the world cup camp that caused the problems, maybe it was the fact that unlike in qualifying players couldn't go home after matches but were instead couped up for 6 weeks. Something was evidentally up what with the performances on the pitch and some of the comments such as terry's press conference, rooney's rant, the sarcastic david james comments etc.
I really hope a large number of this squad retire from international football and make the decision for the manager. I would like to see many of the under 21's making the step up and coming through as a team. Players who know each other and have played together. And if they are going to, who better to manage them than the under 21 manager stuart pearce? that's what he's been involved for after all, to be groomed as the next manager.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 28, 2010 12:43:22 GMT 1
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Post by rglenshrew on Jun 28, 2010 16:18:02 GMT 1
And perhaps therein lies some hope - if they can get exposed to some quality coaching and decided they want to work at it to get better. Most teams England play against seem to have a better touch. England only have 1,000 coaches who hold a Uefa A/Pro licence, Spain have over 12,000 and Germany have over 6,000. Read an interesting article about that a month or so ago, will dig the link out tomorrow. Incidently I think Scotland have about 20. Sums it up! And here it is. news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8688093.stmIt does cost a lot, £4,000 to do it with the SFA but most coaches get their respective clubs to pay for it. Pro licence takes 18 months to complete.
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Post by shrewswolf on Jun 28, 2010 16:35:14 GMT 1
He's also right about kids though. The vast majority of kids when I was young would come straight home from from school, get changed and be out for a couple hours of footie before tea - now everyone's on their Xbox and Wii It's a good point, but whilst a fair few do stay in, play on the wii, the xbox, the ps3 there is still tons who strive to go out, have a game of football, get down the sports village or powerleague. Each and every week its what me and mates do, and when there many more are doing the same.
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Post by rglenshrew on Jun 28, 2010 16:41:48 GMT 1
He's also right about kids though. The vast majority of kids when I was young would come straight home from from school, get changed and be out for a couple hours of footie before tea - now everyone's on their Xbox and Wii It's a good point, but whilst a fair few do stay in, play on the wii, the xbox, the ps3 there is still tons who strive to go out, have a game of football, get down the sports village or powerleague. Each and every week its what me and mates do, and when there many more are doing the same. Most get chased off the streets by the council and forced to pay £54 for an hour on a fives pitch (probably the worst thing in football) at Powerleague..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2010 17:38:01 GMT 1
The English team are simply not as good as the media portray us. We may have a decent domestic league but that has no affect on the international team, well possibly negative.
The term 'Golden Generation' was the worst thing that was ever created, our very own 'Galactio's', people expected us to steamroll teams when the reality is that as soon as we come up against a half decent opposition we cant deal with it
I know the media have to hype things up but its amazing how many people actually get taken in by it. And I also wonder whether the players get taken in to?
The best quote without doubt Ive seen was
"Lampard insisted that the 4-1 scorelined flattered the Germans. He said: “Nobody can stand here and tell me Germany were a lot better than us. They were not 4-1 better than us"
If he believes that, then it shows how much footballers have lost touch with reality
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Post by shrewswolf on Jun 28, 2010 18:00:26 GMT 1
It's a good point, but whilst a fair few do stay in, play on the wii, the xbox, the ps3 there is still tons who strive to go out, have a game of football, get down the sports village or powerleague. Each and every week its what me and mates do, and when there many more are doing the same. Most get chased off the streets by the council and forced to pay £54 for an hour on a fives pitch (probably the worst thing in football) at Powerleague.. Yeh, it did used to cost too much to go a while back, but the last two saturdays have been spent at powerleague, £2 each for the whole day.
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Post by rglenshrew on Jun 28, 2010 19:18:54 GMT 1
Most get chased off the streets by the council and forced to pay £54 for an hour on a fives pitch (probably the worst thing in football) at Powerleague.. Yeh, it did used to cost too much to go a while back, but the last two saturdays have been spent at powerleague, £2 each for the whole day. Might just be a promotion or that, but I used to play Monday nights at half 9 and it was £54 an hour, an absolute joke.
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Post by stfcfan87 on Jun 28, 2010 20:09:32 GMT 1
Nearly all the German players - as far as I can tell - play in their domestic league Posted by blood red shrews on Today at 12:43am Think they all play in Germany. Most of them have played regular Champions league football which is a big part in them being so calm and assured on the ball.....unlike us ----------- Think I'm also right in saying that the entire Italian side all play in Serie A too
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