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Post by eclipsechaser on May 16, 2010 13:41:06 GMT 1
A Constitutional Crisis already !
When there has been no crisis the Con-Lib has manufactured one already which threatens to have a back bench rebellion bringing down the government already .
Vladimir Putin has given himself the job of Premeirship of Russia with the president being a puppet to Putin . Putin changed the Law so that he can never be removed EVER from that position , hence a dictatorship.
Robert Mugabe was democratically elected to be president of Zimbabwe who then subsequently changed the law so that his party could never be removed . Hence a dictatorship .
The Con-Dems now want to change the law so they cannot be ousted for 5 years even if they become completely incompetent or even break the law . Hence you get a ..................!!
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2010 15:03:24 GMT 1
david cameron, who has lambasted on countless occasions, top heavy government, whitehall mandarins and qangos, within his first week in power has established...............................yes you guessed it, a new whitehall department called Office of Budget ResponsibilityAll hail the New Politics
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2010 21:42:54 GMT 1
A Constitutional Crisis already ! When there has been no crisis the Con-Lib has manufactured one already which threatens to have a back bench rebellion bringing down the government already . Vladimir Putin has given himself the job of Premeirship of Russia with the president being a puppet to Putin . Putin changed the Law so that he can never be removed EVER from that position , hence a dictatorship. Robert Mugabe was democratically elected to be president of Zimbabwe who then subsequently changed the law so that his party could never be removed . Hence a dictatorship . The Con-Dems now want to change the law so they cannot be ousted for 5 years even if they become completely incompetent or even break the law . Hence you get a ..................!! I understand the way your post is going, but to be honest, your stretching the facts a bit far. NEVER and NEVER EVER = Dictatorship 5 YEARS. = A Bloody long time, but not a ...............
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2010 23:50:35 GMT 1
I'd love to read a balanced post from you one day Matron - I'm sure there's one in you somewhere!
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Post by MartinB on May 17, 2010 8:00:08 GMT 1
1) Did Labour make any changes to our "consitution" that made it more or less impossible for them to be removed from office before there five years was up? Answer - No ,they had 13 years to carry out their own manifisto promise and did nothing about it at all. No because that would be undemocratic 2) 59.1% of people who voted are seeing some policies they voted for put into action. as opposed to 35.3% in 2005. the principles and morals of 59.1% of people are being sacrificed to satisfy the power craving of clegg and cameron. if Labour had done such a thing as this you would be up in arms. do i smell hypocrisy?3) I think the thing you are really laughing at is I think this was the election to lose as there are so cuts and tax rises to be made to sort out the mess. What i am laughing at is all the conservative and lib dem supporters who have given me and the government i supported so much s**t over the years. watching them squirm and wriggle is nothing short of hilarious.loving it Run that one by me again, it would be undemocratic to follow a manfestio promise?
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on May 17, 2010 8:20:28 GMT 1
So Nick Clegg is 'power hungry'?
I'm imagining him as a young man deciding to go into politics, "I'm desperate to get into power, I know, I'll join the Lib Dems".
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2010 8:56:26 GMT 1
So Nick Clegg is 'power hungry'? I'm imagining him as a young man deciding to go into politics, "I'm desperate to get into power, I know, I'll join the Lib Dems". i know!!! imagine that, its almost as insanely rediculous as the lib dems joining the tories in a power sharing coalition when they have absolutely no common ground
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2010 9:05:09 GMT 1
loving it Run that one by me again, it would be undemocratic to follow a manfestio promise? no, it would be undemocratic to change the rules so you couldnt be removed from office!!! I'd love to read a balanced post from you one day Matron - I'm sure there's one in you somewhere! odd you should say that ant, cos i have been thinking the same thing for years now about loads of posters on here who have done nothing but attack the government with their one sided opinions. did you ever mention this "balance" to any of the others? can i ask, and please feel free to join the discussion rather than making daft comments, but did you vote lib dem. sure in the build up you said you where thinking about it. not that it matters, im just trying to work out what has rattled your cage?
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on May 17, 2010 9:22:07 GMT 1
As a politician I think you are building on quicksand if you get elected then are seen to be trying to close the door behind you.
I think it is remarkable they thought they would get away with it.
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Post by Shrewed on May 17, 2010 9:26:32 GMT 1
So now the country is going to have another 100+ unelected peers in the other place to replace the 75 elected MP's who are likely to lose their seats in the boundary reorganisation.
Now that is what I call DEMOCRACY.
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Post by shrewsace on May 17, 2010 12:52:21 GMT 1
I have a horrible feeling that Osborne's swipe at the previous administration is a 'don't blame us' precursor to the 6bn of cuts to be announced next week.
Expect some very painful amputations.
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Post by neilsalop on May 17, 2010 14:05:06 GMT 1
Loving this thread so much I've decided to join in.
I voted Labour, not because I'm a Labour supporter, but because I didn't think the Eton boys would be able to keep their hands out of my wallet. They will always look after the top 30% of the country, give a little bit and take a bit more back from the middle 40% and screw over the bottom 30% of the wage earning, tax paying British public. The £10,000 base rate for PAYE will in all probability never get done, the loss of tax credits will be pushed through as soon as is practicable and the extra £150 a year for those eaning less than £30,000 a year (if you're married and one of you doesn't work) will be a real boon when it comes to the weekly shop or paying the extra VAT on the gas bill.
I know Labour were putting things into action that would have been unpalatable, but due to the global economic mess we all have to take some sort of hit. The planned Labour rise in NI contributions would be paid by everyone that works and pays taxes, but the VAT increases will hit everyone, pensioners, unemployed, small businesses and the rest of us that work for a living. Higher VAT on fuel, on clothes, on cars, on holidays, on eating out. That means less money for new cars, holidays, eating out etc. Less customers for these businesses mean less sales, less profit, less employees. I would rather pay a bit more tax from my monthly wage and know how much I've got to live on for the next few weeks, than keep paying an extra 3-4% on everything that I want to or need to buy.
I really hope that the LibDems can restrain the worst of the Tory plans, but I won't be holding out much hope.
On the other point about 55% needed to kick out the sitting government. Yes it is wrong, but what sort of fool would Cameron be if he upset the LibDems that much that they all voted against the Tories on every point and backed Labour on all theirs. Granted a vote of no confidence in the government wouldn't force a new election, but the position would be untenable and they'd have to call one themselves.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2010 15:17:10 GMT 1
Run that one by me again, it would be undemocratic to follow a manfestio promise? no, it would be undemocratic to change the rules so you couldnt be removed from office!!! I'd love to read a balanced post from you one day Matron - I'm sure there's one in you somewhere! odd you should say that ant, cos i have been thinking the same thing for years now about loads of posters on here who have done nothing but attack the government with their one sided opinions. did you ever mention this "balance" to any of the others? can i ask, and please feel free to join the discussion rather than making daft comments, but did you vote lib dem. sure in the build up you said you where thinking about it. not that it matters, im just trying to work out what has rattled your cage? Take it as a compliment Matron. Yes others are rose tinted too but you're a very intelligent chap and someone who is more than capable of seeing both sides of a story rather than blatently supporting one party's ideas just because they're made under their own banner. Consider my contribution to be an attempt to try and bring out constructive debate from the best posters on this board.
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Post by MartinB on May 17, 2010 22:03:36 GMT 1
Loving this thread so much I've decided to join in. I voted Labour, not because I'm a Labour supporter, but because I didn't think the Eton boys would be able to keep their hands out of my wallet. They will always look after the top 30% of the country, give a little bit and take a bit more back from the middle 40% and screw over the bottom 30% of the wage earning, tax paying British public. The £10,000 base rate for PAYE will in all probability never get done, the loss of tax credits will be pushed through as soon as is practicable and the extra £150 a year for those eaning less than £30,000 a year (if you're married and one of you doesn't work) will be a real boon when it comes to the weekly shop or paying the extra VAT on the gas bill. I know Labour were putting things into action that would have been unpalatable, but due to the global economic mess we all have to take some sort of hit. The planned Labour rise in NI contributions would be paid by everyone that works and pays taxes, but the VAT increases will hit everyone, pensioners, unemployed, small businesses and the rest of us that work for a living. Higher VAT on fuel, on clothes, on cars, on holidays, on eating out. That means less money for new cars, holidays, eating out etc. Less customers for these businesses mean less sales, less profit, less employees. I would rather pay a bit more tax from my monthly wage and know how much I've got to live on for the next few weeks, than keep paying an extra 3-4% on everything that I want to or need to buy. I really hope that the LibDems can restrain the worst of the Tory plans, but I won't be holding out much hope. On the other point about 55% needed to kick out the sitting government. Yes it is wrong, but what sort of fool would Cameron be if he upset the LibDems that much that they all voted against the Tories on every point and backed Labour on all theirs. Granted a vote of no confidence in the government wouldn't force a new election, but the position would be untenable and they'd have to call one themselves. Tickles me when things were good with the ecomony it was due to "prudence" by Gordon Brown, when things go wrong its due to the Global ecomony. Whoever got into power they were going to have to make cuts. Labour were waiting in hope things improved while the National Debt keeps increasing. I think the Tax Credit cuts are a good idea, I don't see why someone earning over £50000 needs a Government hand out, do you?
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Post by Shrewed on May 17, 2010 22:32:52 GMT 1
Tickles me when things were good with the ecomony it was due to "prudence" by Gordon Brown, when things go wrong its due to the Global ecomony. Whoever got into power they were going to have to make cuts. Labour were waiting in hope things improved while the National Debt keeps increasing. I think the Tax Credit cuts are a good idea, I don't see why someone earning over £50000 needs a Government hand out, do you? Well instead of peddling Tory lies lets look at what they are now saying: "In their coalition agreement, the two parties said they would scale back child tax credits and child trust funds for families on above-average incomes, both of which could be confirmed in the Budget." In April 2009 the Median Weekly pay in the UK was £489 per week which is just over £25,000. www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285In 2007 the average family income was £32,779. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7071611.stm
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Post by shrewsace on May 17, 2010 22:58:49 GMT 1
Loving this thread so much I've decided to join in. I voted Labour, not because I'm a Labour supporter, but because I didn't think the Eton boys would be able to keep their hands out of my wallet. They will always look after the top 30% of the country, give a little bit and take a bit more back from the middle 40% and screw over the bottom 30% of the wage earning, tax paying British public. The £10,000 base rate for PAYE will in all probability never get done, the loss of tax credits will be pushed through as soon as is practicable and the extra £150 a year for those eaning less than £30,000 a year (if you're married and one of you doesn't work) will be a real boon when it comes to the weekly shop or paying the extra VAT on the gas bill. I know Labour were putting things into action that would have been unpalatable, but due to the global economic mess we all have to take some sort of hit. The planned Labour rise in NI contributions would be paid by everyone that works and pays taxes, but the VAT increases will hit everyone, pensioners, unemployed, small businesses and the rest of us that work for a living. Higher VAT on fuel, on clothes, on cars, on holidays, on eating out. That means less money for new cars, holidays, eating out etc. Less customers for these businesses mean less sales, less profit, less employees. I would rather pay a bit more tax from my monthly wage and know how much I've got to live on for the next few weeks, than keep paying an extra 3-4% on everything that I want to or need to buy. I really hope that the LibDems can restrain the worst of the Tory plans, but I won't be holding out much hope. On the other point about 55% needed to kick out the sitting government. Yes it is wrong, but what sort of fool would Cameron be if he upset the LibDems that much that they all voted against the Tories on every point and backed Labour on all theirs. Granted a vote of no confidence in the government wouldn't force a new election, but the position would be untenable and they'd have to call one themselves. Tickles me when things were good with the ecomony it was due to "prudence" by Gordon Brown, when things go wrong its due to the Global ecomony. Pure spin unless you acknowledge that the banking crisis was a global one that affected all the world's major economies. Was Brown reponsible for the difficulties faced by the USA, Germany, France, Ireland etc? Brown can carry the can for how well placed we were to deal and recover from the crisis, but we were going to suffer whichever of the three main parties were in charge.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2010 6:28:34 GMT 1
[ Tickles me when things were good with the ecomony it was due to "prudence" by Gordon Brown, when things go wrong its due to the Global ecomony. Whoever got into power they were going to have to make cuts. Labour were waiting in hope things improved while the National Debt keeps increasing. I think the Tax Credit cuts are a good idea, I don't see why someone earning over £50000 needs a Government hand out, do you? is it not a household income of £50K? 2 people on £25K for example. hardly bankers wages is it. I know from my own experience that even £50 a month when all your money is tied up actually is a big deal when it disappears.
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Post by MartinB on May 18, 2010 21:33:52 GMT 1
[ Tickles me when things were good with the ecomony it was due to "prudence" by Gordon Brown, when things go wrong its due to the Global ecomony. Whoever got into power they were going to have to make cuts. Labour were waiting in hope things improved while the National Debt keeps increasing. I think the Tax Credit cuts are a good idea, I don't see why someone earning over £50000 needs a Government hand out, do you? is it not a household income of £50K? 2 people on £25K for example. hardly bankers wages is it. I know from my own experience that even £50 a month when all your money is tied up actually is a big deal when it disappears. Yes it is joint income of £50,000 a year, but I still don't think you need a Government hand out if you are getting that family income. I would also scrap Child Trust funds totally. £250 per child for when they are 18. I really don't think we can afford that and what good is it going to do? What good has it done so far? Nothing at all. The review of Government spending decisions since the turn of the year will be very interesting as well.
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Post by Amsterdammer on May 18, 2010 21:45:21 GMT 1
The review of Government spending decisions since the turn of the year will be very interesting as well. Clever political move that. As it would with almost every organisation it is bound to throw up some ludicrous decisions. Everyone's got their version of the Ridsdale 'goldfish tank' in there somewhere. But surely in reality the new quango to investigate quangos will just cost more money and expensive consultants fees to prove what exactly? That there were too many quangos. Perhaps the next move will be to set up a new office of budget responsibility responsibility to review the decisions of the new quango.
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Post by monkee on Jun 24, 2010 23:41:58 GMT 1
the cracks are beginning to show with this bizzarre marriage, cant see it lasting a year. will we see another election or will some of the liberals jump ship?
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