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Post by Dan F on Mar 2, 2009 19:49:46 GMT 1
There is more chance of Pingu being elected the Lord Mayor of London than Sharia Law being adopted in this country. Britain is and will turn into a Muslim state, you maybe laughing and tutting now, but its happening and quicker than you think. Before any of you say it will never happen, we all know more and more of them enter the country everyday in there droves and nobody in the government is bothering to stop them and if nobod y is bothering to stop them, then more and more enter. The more that enter, the more powerful politically they will become and the more powerful politically they become it will be harder to cut the flow of them entering the country which means they will grow even stronger politically and they will be able to gain there own laws. They already have the power to say st. georges flag is racist, how long before st georges flag is outlawed along with the union jack and replaced with a blue and white flag with a red crescent moon on it? I've seen the flag flown in the west midlands,the crescent moon flag of great britain. Also imagine yourself being arrested for eating a bacon sandwich or a hot pork bap with stuffing.... Its going to happen. Yeah. Sure we will. And the Pope will be an athiest.
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Post by mattmw on Mar 2, 2009 20:00:33 GMT 1
There is more chance of Pingu being elected the Lord Mayor of London than Sharia Law being adopted in this country. Britain is and will turn into a Muslim state, you maybe laughing and tutting now, but its happening and quicker than you think. Before any of you say it will never happen, we all know more and more of them enter the country everyday in there droves and nobody in the government is bothering to stop them and if nobod y is bothering to stop them, then more and more enter. The more that enter, the more powerful politically they will become and the more powerful politically they become it will be harder to cut the flow of them entering the country which means they will grow even stronger politically and they will be able to gain there own laws. They already have the power to say st. georges flag is racist, how long before st georges flag is outlawed along with the union jack and replaced with a blue and white flag with a red crescent moon on it? I've seen the flag flown in the west midlands,the crescent moon flag of great britain. Also imagine yourself being arrested for eating a bacon sandwich or a hot pork bap with stuffing.... Its going to happen. With all due respect this view shows a complete lack of understanding of british history and traditions. Any attempts to force a religious, social or draconian state in england has failed, even the romans had to give up and stooped to our level after a while. Christianity as practiced in the uk is the easiest religion in the world to follw, you just have to go to church occasionally, not kill anyone or covert your neioghbours ox and your sorted. Most of us can't even be bothered to do that, so I can't see us going for a religion that requires prayers 4 times a day, a strict social order and trip to mecca (unless its mecca bingo) catching on here.
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Enoch Powell was right
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Post by Enoch Powell was right on Mar 2, 2009 20:03:07 GMT 1
Britain is and will turn into a Muslim state, you maybe laughing and tutting now, but its happening and quicker than you think. Before any of you say it will never happen, we all know more and more of them enter the country everyday in there droves and nobody in the government is bothering to stop them and if nobod y is bothering to stop them, then more and more enter. The more that enter, the more powerful politically they will become and the more powerful politically they become it will be harder to cut the flow of them entering the country which means they will grow even stronger politically and they will be able to gain there own laws. They already have the power to say st. georges flag is racist, how long before st georges flag is outlawed along with the union jack and replaced with a blue and white flag with a red crescent moon on it? I've seen the flag flown in the west midlands,the crescent moon flag of great britain. Also imagine yourself being arrested for eating a bacon sandwich or a hot pork bap with stuffing.... Its going to happen. Yeah. Sure we will. And the Pope will be an athiest. Get out of your dreamworld shell, open your eyes! Take a good look around and take in what you see! Telford is a good example to study over the next 5 years or so watch the islamic population boom after that we are next. Everywhere bigger than Telford already has large Islamic populations ever growing ever increasing. People native to Britain need to really open there eyes, its not imigration its an invasion.
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Enoch Powell was right
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Post by Enoch Powell was right on Mar 2, 2009 20:05:40 GMT 1
Britain is and will turn into a Muslim state, you maybe laughing and tutting now, but its happening and quicker than you think. Before any of you say it will never happen, we all know more and more of them enter the country everyday in there droves and nobody in the government is bothering to stop them and if nobod y is bothering to stop them, then more and more enter. The more that enter, the more powerful politically they will become and the more powerful politically they become it will be harder to cut the flow of them entering the country which means they will grow even stronger politically and they will be able to gain there own laws. They already have the power to say st. georges flag is racist, how long before st georges flag is outlawed along with the union jack and replaced with a blue and white flag with a red crescent moon on it? I've seen the flag flown in the west midlands,the crescent moon flag of great britain. Also imagine yourself being arrested for eating a bacon sandwich or a hot pork bap with stuffing.... Its going to happen. With all due respect this view shows a complete lack of understanding of british history and traditions. Any attempts to force a religious, social or draconian state in england has failed, even the romans had to give up and stooped to our level after a while. Christianity as practiced in the uk is the easiest religion in the world to follw, you just have to go to church occasionally, not kill anyone or covert your neioghbours ox and your sorted. Most of us can't even be bothered to do that, so I can't see us going for a religion that requires prayers 4 times a day, a strict social order and trip to mecca (unless its mecca bingo) catching on here. We will be forced to do it, which will cause outrage, whcih will lead to a religion/race war in this country.
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Post by Dan F on Mar 2, 2009 20:19:16 GMT 1
Gotta love guests on a wind-up crusade.
Well, when they do it with the right style and panache. This isn't it. 5/10
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Post by shrewsace on Mar 2, 2009 20:20:52 GMT 1
What the hell would you celebrate? What is it to be english? Is there such a thing as englishness? . Surely Englishness exists as much as Welshness, Scottishness , Irishness, or any other 'ness' you care to mention. Or do all countries have a culture that should be respected apart from the English?
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Post by theriverside on Mar 2, 2009 20:21:28 GMT 1
Gotta love guests on a wind-up crusade. Well, when they do it with the right style and panache. This isn't it. 5/10 A better effort than the random stuff we had at the weekend
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Post by mattmw on Mar 2, 2009 20:23:45 GMT 1
With all due respect this view shows a complete lack of understanding of british history and traditions. Any attempts to force a religious, social or draconian state in england has failed, even the romans had to give up and stooped to our level after a while. Christianity as practiced in the uk is the easiest religion in the world to follw, you just have to go to church occasionally, not kill anyone or covert your neioghbours ox and your sorted. Most of us can't even be bothered to do that, so I can't see us going for a religion that requires prayers 4 times a day, a strict social order and trip to mecca (unless its mecca bingo) catching on here. We will be forced to do it, which will cause outrage, whcih will lead to a religion/race war in this country. Yes love I'm sure it will, bless.
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Post by heavenlyshrew on Mar 2, 2009 20:28:16 GMT 1
We will be forced to do it, which will cause outrage, whcih will lead to a religion/race war in this country. Yes love I'm sure it will, bless. I bet if you ask people from bradford,burnley,rochdale and most northern towns i bet they would say we aint that far away from more race riots. We dont see much of it down here as we have not got the problems that they have.
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Post by Dan F on Mar 2, 2009 20:32:20 GMT 1
We had a race riot here. Worst ones in it were the English yobs. It goes both ways. Now the English and Pakistanis are united against the Poles who've made far more of an impact than Asians ever did - if I was to worry about anything (and I'm not, I love living in a multi-cultural area) I'd be more worried about that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2009 20:33:13 GMT 1
What the hell would you celebrate? What is it to be english? Is there such a thing as englishness? . Surely Englishness exists as much as Welshness, Scottishness , Irishness, or any other 'ness' you care to mention. Or do all countries have a culture that should be respected apart from the English? And what is it exactly the scotts welsh and irish celebrate? **** all they just use it as an excuse to get p**sed as rats. Which is absolutely fine i guess but lets not delude ourselves that it is some kind of patriotic symbol.
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Post by davros on Mar 2, 2009 20:33:20 GMT 1
Yes love I'm sure it will, bless. I bet if you ask people from bradford,burnley,rochdale and most northern towns i bet they would say we aint that far away from more race riots. We dont see much of it down here as we have not got the problems that they have. that will very much depend upon who you talk to though wont it? the riots there in 2001 were stoked up by the national front as i remember, a confrontation between them and the anti nazi league?
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Post by mattmw on Mar 2, 2009 20:35:07 GMT 1
Yes love I'm sure it will, bless. I bet if you ask people from bradford,burnley,rochdale and most northern towns i bet they would say we aint that far away from more race riots. We dont see much of it down here as we have not got the problems that they have. That can be a self completing agenga though - if you kep saying there will be race riots then sooner or later there will be. A bit like a town away win if you wait long enough it will happen. Personally I think any issues around "race" are much more closely linked to social deprevation and lack of opportunity. When people of any colour and creed fee they are getting the thin end of the wedge they want someone to blame, when sadly the actual problems probably lie within their own communities. Sadly for a variety of reasons the poor in the areas you mention have been neglected by a series of civic leaders and "race" can become a simple answer to more complex issues
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enoch powell was right
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Post by enoch powell was right on Mar 2, 2009 20:37:46 GMT 1
I totally agree we are not too far away from some more race riots, i say this time it will be far worse than last. Its gonna happen and theres nothing we can do about it. Anyhow if you ask me St Alban is the proper patron Saint of England, certainly the part of England we live in.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2009 20:57:11 GMT 1
Surely Englishness exists as much as Welshness, Scottishness , Irishness, or any other 'ness' you care to mention. Or do all countries have a culture that should be respected apart from the English? And what is it exactly the scotts welsh and irish celebrate? **** all they just use it as an excuse to get p**sed as rats. Which is absolutely fine i guess but lets not delude ourselves that it is some kind of patriotic symbol. I think the point he was trying to make was that whilst the Scots, Welsh and Irish are able to celebrate their national day, as soon as us English want to do it, then the 'R' word is mentioned and apparently every event is going to be full of right wing extremists I agree that really all the day is for is a p*ss up but its the same for the Irish, Welsh and Scots so why can they celebrate it and everyone thinks its one big party but people are so ashamed when it comes to St Georges Day I agree with a lot of the comments on the thread that if someone wants to hold a celebration, parade or anything like that, then you would expect to have to pay for it. The only way id complain was if other groups/celebrations were being treated favourably.
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Post by shrewsace on Mar 2, 2009 21:06:25 GMT 1
To be honest I'm a bit ambivalent about all this, I find bone-headed 'Eng-er-land' , 'One World Cup and Two World Wars' style 'patriotism' to be a complete embarrassment and wouldn't want to be associated with any display of it.
On the other hand, I find it a bit annoying that the English aren't allowed to express any pride in their country without being accused of racism or not being sensitive to other cultures.
Sadly, celebrations of Englishness have become synonymous with the far right and the BNP.
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Post by ng12shrews on Mar 2, 2009 21:13:42 GMT 1
To be honest I'm a bit ambivalent about all this, I find bone-headed 'Eng-er-land' , 'One World Cup and Two World Wars' style 'patriotism' to be a complete embarrassment and wouldn't want to be associated with any display of it. On the other hand, I find it a bit annoying that the English aren't allowed to express any pride in their country without being accused of racism or not being sensitive to other cultures. Sadly, celebrations of Englishness have become synonymous with the far right and the BNP. abso-bloody-correctly.
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Post by new era on Mar 2, 2009 21:16:00 GMT 1
Thats why st georges day and st georges flag has to go, bring on st albans day and a flag that mirrors our teams colours.
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Post by mattmw on Mar 2, 2009 21:21:52 GMT 1
On a related note has anyone seen the St George Winnie the Pooh teddy on the e-bay ad on this page - they have used the bloody american version of winnie the pooh as st George not even the proper English version
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brumshrew
Midland League Division One
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Post by brumshrew on Mar 2, 2009 21:35:38 GMT 1
I can't understand the fuss about St George's Day. It's never been a big thing in England. I've experienced the St George's day celebrations whilst living in Portugal (where he's also the patron saint) and, whilst it is a reasonably big thing, it's not really anything to do with patriotism it's just a night where people go out for a few drinks and eat chourico assado. People seem to have this view that St George's Day in other countries is a riotous, joyful, explosion of national pride but that isn't really the case. I can understand why this story riles people though, but I think that the Daily Star is being misleading in the way they've presented the facts.
I'd be interested to know whether the Muslim guy is being expected to pick up the cost of policing his march. If not, then the Daily Star has probably just cost London taxpayers another few grand they can ill afford with their brilliant article. Not to mention the number of other muslims with extreme views who may now have become aware of the event and will attend that otherwise wouldn't have.
Prior to the Daily Star's timely intervention, the Sharia law bloke's march probably would have been a few local nutcases parading around handing out leaflets. Now it's a potential race riot, which is probably what the Daily Star wants so they can then sell yet more newspapers off the back of it.
Ultimately, I think West Bromwich council were on a hiding to nothing, whichever course of action they . If you take a look into the background of the event, it's not hard to see why they might have reservations about funding it. Far from being a genuinely traditional event, it only actually began in 1998 and has now grown into the nation's largest St. George's Day parade, with 15,000 people attending the last one. In a rural area like Shropshire that might not seem so odd but in a very multicultural area like West Bromwich which has a large Asian population it does seem confrontational, particularly considering the speed at which the event has grown.
Also, as far as I know there are BNP councillors in West Bromwich and Sandwell. If you google the words "west bromwich st george's day parade" the 3rd search result is a youtube video from "BNP TV", filmed at the event. Whilst the right wing press are keen to present the event as an innocent traditional expression of English patriotism, look at it from another angle and it may look like a reactionary event designed to create tension and nationalistic sentiment in an area that's potentially a great hunting ground for the far right parties like the BNP. Strangely enough, although I don't have the stats to hand right now, I'm fairly certain that the West Midlands had one of the highest numbers of people on the leaked BNP list, with areas like Dudley, West Bromwich, Sandwell, Kingstanding, et al being well represented. Of course, that could just be a coincidence, but it bears consideration.
If the event does get bigger and spiral out of control into violence, West Bromwich council would no doubt get panned for funding it in the first place so they're kind of damned if they do, damned if they don't. Anyway, it's not like they've actually banned it, they're just asking the organisers to fund it themselves which, given that well over 10,000 people are supposed to attend the event, shouldn't actually be anything like as hard as the paper seems to be making out.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2009 21:49:04 GMT 1
I In a rural area like Shropshire that might not seem so odd but in a very multicultural area like West Bromwich which has a large Asian population it does seem confrontational, particularly considering the speed at which the event has grown. . Brum, I do agree with a lot you say but I think your comment there sums up the problem for me. How is celebrating the English Patron Saint in an English town confrontational? We are too afraid of upsetting other minorities, cultures, races (or whatever you want to group them as) and thats what a lot of this comes down to. This nornally ends up with a stereotypical BNP/NF comment of 'well if they dont like it, they can go back to where they come from' but has anyone asked these groups if they find it confrontational? But if a St George's Day parade in WestBrom is confrontational, then is the St Patricks Day parade in Birmingham confrontational?
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brumshrew
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Post by brumshrew on Mar 2, 2009 22:09:30 GMT 1
I would say that the main reason that it might seem confrontational in somewhere like West Bromwich is that the area has never had a particularly big collective desire to celebrate St George's Day until the last decade or so, when there's a big ethnic minority population in place and during which time the area has also seen a significant rise in support for far right parties, especially the BNP.
The funny thing is, people aren't even stopped from being patriotic. Walk down any street in Shrewsbury or any other town and you'll see St George's cross flags flying from pubs and houses, England flag car stickers and people wearing England football, rugby and cricket shirts. Look at stuff like the last night of the Proms or even Glastonbury, where hundreds of people fly the Union Jack or the St George cross. England fans usually burst into a rendition of God Save the Queen at least two or three times during any England football match. We've still got our pubs, chippies and English breakfasts, which we've even exported abroad so now we don't have to go too long without expressing our national pride. Then there's Armistice Day, Rememberance Sunday and all that.
We don't particularly need a special day to celebrate our national identity, we seem to do plenty of it all year round. The thought police never come along and round us up for doing any of these things, yet people are losing their rag essentially over the fact that they're jealous at the fact that everyone worldwide gets drunk on St Patrick's Day not St George's Day.
Just on a slight tangent though, how many people are actually aware of the full story of St George? Most people know the legend of him killing a dragon but he was also a Christian martyr who is said to have appeared to English soldiers before a battle in the Crusades, after which point they went on to slaughter many muslims. Does make you wonder why some people are so keen to revive St George's Day, doesn't it?
EDIT: re the St Patrick's Day parade, I'd say that those events probably could have been seen as confrontational, particularly back in the 70s, when there was widespread mistrust of Irish communities across the mainland UK. However, the St Patrick's Day celebration is largely a product of the marketing divisions of various beer and whisky companies so benefits from a lot more positive PR.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Mar 2, 2009 23:52:52 GMT 1
People ask whether St Georges day was celebrated in the past, it wasn't and most English people did not know what date it fell on.
I didn't know myself until my youngest was born on 23rd April and I saw it in my diary.
The reason it wasn't celebrated was that English people knew that they were superior to everyone else in the world and didn't need to make a fuss about it.
Lesser nations had to assert themselves in some way, hence the fuss about St Patricks etc.
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Wishing to remain anonymous
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Post by Wishing to remain anonymous on Mar 3, 2009 0:50:57 GMT 1
Generalising, the English seem more enthused about St Patrick's Day rather than celebrating St George's Day. Fact! It makes me sick that British pubs are decked out in Tricolour's - the symbol of the IRA who have murdered so many people on the mainland. Go on holiday abroad and the Irish won't entertain you. They are just bitter and twisted. Fact! Why do the British celebrate St Patrick's Day? I for one don't!
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Post by blum on Mar 3, 2009 1:44:36 GMT 1
Whether or not people celebrate SGD is irrelevent, we must maintain the right to do so if we wish..
There is no way that Sharia law will ever become the majority in the UK, it will not happen, like I dont think we will see a mosque in Shrewsbury, not in my lifetime anyway. As for the English and Pakistani's uniting against the Poles, I dont believe that to be the case. In cities where there is a prevalence of Muslims there is a nasty under belly of white patriotism waiting in the wings....
Personally I think because we seem to have no desire to maintain our identity and our race it's easier for these stupid PC muppets to make changes knowing that they can do it with little fuss....IMO of course
BTW I would imagine that the Shrewsbury Saint George Society WILL almost certainly be having an event..
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Post by Dan F on Mar 3, 2009 9:11:34 GMT 1
I dont think we will see a mosque in Shrewsbury, not in my lifetime anyway. As for the English and Pakistani's uniting against the Poles, I dont believe that to be the case. In cities where there is a prevalence of Muslims there is a nasty under belly of white patriotism waiting in the wings.... We are a smaller town than Shrewsbury, and we've got a Mosque. Saying that, I think if you were to get one in Shrewsbury you'd already have it (and am surprised you don't already). Even in the 80s my school year was 55% Pakistani and as such a lot of us who've been the ages whereby the problems occur have grown up side-by-side and there's not an issue. The riot we did have was actually a group of out-of-towners who came in to cause trouble and the local "whites" actually helped the Asians, or a lot did anyway. Now we have the Poles, and because of the relationships forged through school, work etc. they're the outsiders - it's not the colour of the skin, it's being different. Maybe we're unusual here, but that's my experience.
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Post by Dont believe the HYPE on Mar 3, 2009 9:48:56 GMT 1
Generalizing, the English seem more enthused about St Patrick's Day rather than celebrating St George's Day. Fact! It makes me sick that British pubs are decked out in Tricolor's - the symbol of the IRA who have murdered so many people on the mainland. Go on holiday abroad and the Irish won't entertain you. They are just bitter and twisted. Fact! Why do the British celebrate St Patrick's Day? I for one don't! I was all for banning guests, until this little gen appeared. It makes me sick how councils actively encourage st Paddy's day yet feel ashamed to be English. We might as well celebrate the patron saint of Germany as Ireland's, The Irish wanted their Independence so let them have it. I personally would rather eat my left testicle than celebrate Paddy's days.
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Post by Dont believe the HYPE on Mar 3, 2009 10:41:56 GMT 1
Prime Minister - Australia
Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks..
Separately, he angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: 'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. '
'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'
'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!'
'Most Australians believe in God.. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'
'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'
'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'
'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'
A quote from The Australian Prime Minister sums it up brilliantly IMO notworthy notworthy
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Post by heavenlyshrew on Mar 3, 2009 10:45:51 GMT 1
Quality post
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Post by davros on Mar 3, 2009 10:52:49 GMT 1
How many of us actually go to church or believe in god? Was this Christianity business brought here from another country, how does that work with all this? Surely if you care about being english you would look further than the start of christianity. we should have a state sponsored Pagan celebration if you ask me.
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