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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Dec 14, 2004 10:00:22 GMT 1
There isn't no, but in a pure act of spite against the football club and in an attempt by anti-new meadow councillors to prevent the oteley road development all the council money got pumped into the sundorne site which has quite a lot of community stuff
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Post by watfordshrew on Dec 14, 2004 10:08:26 GMT 1
You can see on that thread that their 26th centre is being built at Queens School Bushey Watford. My kids go there and I am involved with the P.T.A.
All I can say is that providing they think your area will have a good 'take up' i.e lots of people wanting to play in a midweek organised five a side league they are very willing to enter into partnership deals.
They are very professional in everything they do and provide excellent bar, changing and bar facilities.
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Post by tom_leather on Dec 14, 2004 12:04:49 GMT 1
I'm sorry to say this but....... sh!t ground, no fans!!!!!! I can see it now in a couple of years down the road. We have such a short sighted board, who I wonder if they care about the bog standard supporter. Why on earth didn't they take us into consideration when they sat and designed the bloody plans and not think about themselves and their own comforts. unfortunately, i have to say, i agree. in five+ yrs, people will not want to travel out of the town centre to watch a game of footy and thats it. no bar, no pitches, and its not even the colours the people want. it doesn't seem to me that the board have really thought about the long term future i.e. the fans who will turn up week in week out and continue to give monmey, or the fans of the future. really dissapointed.
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rep
Midland League Division Two
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Post by rep on Dec 14, 2004 13:29:18 GMT 1
Sorry in advance for any repetition, but reading this post I can't help feeling the board are building the new ground as an exclusive facility for themselves and the select few. I notice the 3 main issues raised were the supporters bar , proposed colours and the community pitches; I assume I'm flogging a dead horse regarding terracing ? Whilst I can appreciate that it is impossible to please everyone it should be reasonable to consider the views of the majority. Wake up Roland and co before you alienate otherwise loyal fans.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2004 13:38:50 GMT 1
The plans that have had planning application for the New Meadow site are set in stone, so no terracing, and no other amendments to the current size of offices etc.
The board of directors want to build the stadium for 10 million, leaving as much money as possible to be left in the club's coffers so the club is in a very healthy financial position i.e. no debt and money to spend when the move is complete.
Mr Safritz did apologise last night for the inadequate space currently provided in the plans for a supporters bar.
There is scope for additions/ extensions to be made to the NM once it is complete.
HOWEVER what can be changed at the New Meadow is the way in which function space, currently provided is structured. For example on the first floor of the plan there is a 300-capacity function room which will be split/ partioned between sponsors/ executives and a restaurant area.
What the supporters now need to do is make the best out of the current situation. By formulating a business plan showing what money can be made from such a room throughout the season and during a week too we can show that some of this space should be used to increase the size of the supporters bar.
Ade Plimmer at the meeting last night suggested formulating a working party to design and write such a business plan. If you would like to help reply here or send him a PM.
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Post by foxie nli on Dec 14, 2004 14:20:29 GMT 1
Big Big concern that a business spends 10 to 14million on a new ground but has no marketing strategy in place that will maximise its financial potential. The days where supporters hand over a cheque for the directors to spend on what they think at the club should now be gone. i.e. If we want amber seats, the supporters raise the cash and we buy the seats.
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Post by watfordshrew on Dec 14, 2004 14:22:54 GMT 1
Buy an amber seat scheme?
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Post by rob on Dec 14, 2004 16:24:03 GMT 1
I'm confused,
The ground as Ant says needs to cost £10million.
The Gay meadow sold for £12million.
We recieved substantial grants from the Football foundation or whatever its called.
Even if you take away the grants, the club is still left with £2million!!!!
I dont understand, how much did the land cost??? Whats our outlay been thus far (Someone said Alaska covered all the planning costs)?
I may be way off the mark, but from where Im standing with what i know (which is naff all) there does appear to be big gaps financially with what the club should have, what we've been told the ground will cost and what they are intimating they now have....
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Dec 14, 2004 16:26:10 GMT 1
I'm confused, The ground as Ant says needs to cost £10million. The Gay meadow sold for £12million. We recieved substantial grants from the Football foundation or whatever its called. Even if you take away the grants, the club is still left with £2million!!!! I dont understand, how much did the land cost??? Whats our outlay been thus far (Someone said Alaska covered all the planning costs)? I may be way off the mark, but from where Im standing with what i know (which is naff all) there does appear to be big gaps financially with what the club should have, what we've been told the ground will cost and what they are intimating they now have.... The want a fighting fund and no debt when the move in pete, though questions remain over the point/size and scope of this in out current plight!!
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Post by guest on Dec 14, 2004 17:38:36 GMT 1
REGARDING COLOURS OF SEATS:
I WAS IMPRESSED WITH THE SEATS AT EURO2004 WHICH WERE MULTI COLOURED AND MADE THE QUIETER GAMES LOOK BUSY.
SEEN AS THE NM WILL BE ONLY HALF FULL FOR MOST GAMES WHY NOT USE MULTI COLOURED SEATS SO IT DOESNT LOOK LIKE ANOTHER RANDOM LOWER LEAGUE ALL SEATER STADIUM A LA DEVA
THIS WILL LOOK GREAT ON TV AND AS YET NO-ONE ELSE IN THE UK HAS DONE IT.
DEFINATELY IN THE AWAY END I SAY. THE CONTINENTAL FLAVOUR!
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Post by timgallon on Dec 14, 2004 21:06:46 GMT 1
The plans that have had planning application for the New Meadow site are set in stone, so no terracing, and no other amendments to the current size of offices etc. The board of directors want to build the stadium for 10 million, leaving as much money as possible to be left in the club's coffers so the club is in a very healthy financial position i.e. no debt and money to spend when the move is complete. Mr Safritz did apologise last night for the inadequate space currently provided in the plans for a supporters bar. There is scope for additions/ extensions to be made to the NM once it is complete. I'd like to comment on the four points above. 1- Yes the plans are approved but it is simple to apply to ammend them - just apply to vary the plans or conditions of the permission with the Council. 2- Whats the point to cutting corners that dont result in long term money making ventures. Lets have a ground to be proud with rather than something bog standard. 3- Its OK for Sayfritz to apologise he's sorted out his own facilites and the corporate hospitality. The rest of us will be slumming it. 4- Ok you can develop/extend in the future but it will be cheaper to do it when the builders are on site. Its alright the club saying work with what we have got, but if its not what you want in the first place its destined to fail. Most of these function rooms are Ok for functions but there not like pubs or clubs, people want something they are familar with.
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Post by meoleshrew2 on Dec 14, 2004 21:21:11 GMT 1
As long as we retain B&A colours on the shirt would that make everyone happy, if not we buy elsewhere and put the profit towards the running of a supporters bar, Re: community pitches, could there be a way to fund these via fans fundraising in the future as the council has put all the grants to the site at Sundorne.
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bill
Shropshire County League
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Post by bill on Dec 14, 2004 21:45:03 GMT 1
Im shaw a fullsize all weather pitch that can be used as 3, 5 aside pitches and the flood lights to go with them can not cost that much to put in if done when the other pitches and car parks are being bulit. If there is no money from the club can the suporters groups not fund and run the pitches then use any profits for the club.
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Post by MarkRowley on Dec 14, 2004 22:08:19 GMT 1
Have just read all this and have the disadvantage of a) not being at last night's meeting, b) not having seen the plans and c) not knowing the ins & outs of planning (good job we have TG ). From my point of view, I'm with Tim and Billbo that this all sounds fairly cr@p to me and isn't sounding like the great new stadium we have been led to believe will be built. I accept that the Council have been a pain in the arse, relegation was hardly in our plans and we don't have a great deal of cash - that is life I'm afraid and most clubs at our level are in a similar boat. However, whilst these things do mitigate against some criticism of the board, I do believe there are serious shortcomings in the board's general business acumen and the way they have handled this. - What is our marketing plan ? - If KS says there are few people or businesses looking to invest in Town, why do they need all these facilities? - If you were a business looking to entertain & impress important clients on a corporate day out would you pick a game at the Meadow? I've been on a few such days on both sides of the equation and the honest answer would be no, you'd be looking at Villa Park, the Dingles, racing, cricket, golf days etc, NOT Div 2 or Div 3 football. - If we are aiming at Championship football, which is a long term aim and at this stage somewhat of a dream, what corporate facilities do similarly sized clubs (Crewe, Rotherham, Gillingham etc) have? - Why do I get the impression that I as an ordinary season ticket holder will be treated as a 2nd class citizen in my new stadium? I, fellow B&A users and a couple of thousand others are the bread & butter fanbase, don't alienate them - Why should the fanbase have to come up with a business plan to justify having facilities for themselves at their own ground ? - Let's turn this question on it's head - what is the board's business plan for having so much space for hospitality, sponsors, themselves and ground floor offices at the expense of the ordinary fan who will always contribute the vast majority of their income streams ? - Why are we only discussing this now when we are then told that plans are finalised in terms of total area and we are effectively just arguing the toss over where a couple of MDF room partitions will go? - Who thought that a bar of about 100 is sufficient when The Crown alone has that many fans in on some matchdays? As you can tell, not impressed by this at all. The Board alway seem to be reactive rather than proactive and continue to give the impression of being a bunch of amateurs who are adlibbing at running our club - they are supposed to be professional businessmen, lets see some evidence of that please. Before anyone mentions it, I recognise this isn't the most helpful of posts , and I wish good luck to those of you who have the skills and time to do the club's job for them, sadly I don't have the latter due to my own work volumes. Overall, to sum up, think this is going to be a massive opportunity that is being completely cocked up
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Post by SeanBroseley on Dec 14, 2004 22:15:12 GMT 1
- Why should the fanbase have to come up with a business plan to justify having facilities for themselves at their own ground ? - Let's turn this question on it's head - what is the board's business plan for having so much space for hospitality, sponsors, themselves and ground floor offices at the expense of the ordinary fan who will always contribute the vast majority of their income streams ? I think we approached this area from a number of angles, and, as I have said above the business plan seemed to amount to this: 1) People who sit down to a meal will spend more money than someone with a pie and a pint. 2) They know someone who can utilise the function rooms on a good proportion of non-match days. That seems to be the sum total of the football club's thinking - or at least the thinking that we were being told about......
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Post by MarkRowley on Dec 14, 2004 22:23:08 GMT 1
There is some logic there Sean, although that assumes that they are going to be able to attract the good folk of Shropshire (which they have yet to prove) to a) watch the game, b) eat the food c) pay for the privilege and d) come back again - yet to see who is going to get the catering contract On the otherhand, they should know that we are a captive market because we're the thousands of poor barstewards who have to endure watching week on week If they look after us, we will spend more money every week (not just as a one off prawn sandwich eating guest) in terms of a couple of extra drinks (beer or soft), a bacon roll or 2, more stuff from the shop, we might use the pool table, jukebox etc. Also one or two of us will know people or societies who can use function rooms etc.
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Post by shrewinjapan on Dec 14, 2004 22:52:55 GMT 1
From what I've read about the recent "No Smoking & Food Pub" issue, it's nonsense to argue that people eating a meal spend more than people having a pie and a pint. They may well SPEND more but all the breweries have been saying that there is a huge difference in the margins on food and those on drinks - i.e. selling drinks is far more PROFITABLE. We all know how much beer us footie fans get through - it's a goldmine the club will be losing. It'll be a shame if they don't make a decent supporters bar, but even if they don't then at the very least they should ensure that there are decent bar facilities under the stands with places to sit/stand comfortably to eat/drink/chat.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2004 22:53:23 GMT 1
I'm utterly bemused that the directors of our Football Club can fail to answer questions from Sean and TonyKellysBelly on how they came to conclusions on why the New Meadow has been set-up as it has. Keith S's answer to 'What did you plan to do with the Players bar/Supporter's Bar/ Creche' was 'No idea'. I'm surprised that Mal Whittrick and Harry (don't know his surname) can speak to supporters with such utter contempt during an open meeting. As a supporter I felt that if I were a fire, Mal would not even have the inclination to p**s on me. I feel patronised that Keith Sayfritz believes we are trying to fight for a place where we can get subsidised beer, when no such thing has ever been mentioned. I'm wondering whether Bill Wingrove will ever manage to open his mouth and speak during a meeting with supporters. I (as Sean so rightfully put it) grew up last night. I'll do whatever I can to try and help income streams at MY football club. I will continue to wonder how this football club will serve its supporters in any way greater than for a couple of hours every other week.
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Post by timgallon on Dec 15, 2004 0:01:16 GMT 1
I think we approached this area from a number of angles, and, as I have said above the business plan seemed to amount to this: 1) People who sit down to a meal will spend more money than someone with a pie and a pint. 2) They know someone who can utilise the function rooms on a good proportion of non-match days. That seems to be the sum total of the football club's thinking - or at least the thinking that we were being told about...... It just looks to me if the club are saying "its either a corporate facility or one for the fans", when really it should be lets have both. Lets get everybody spending their dosh, be it on pies or prawn sarnies. Has anyone been to Hartlepool, they have a good supporters club in the corner of the ground. given that the NM has open corners why not have a club in the corner between the home end and the side stand.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Dec 15, 2004 9:25:57 GMT 1
I'm utterly bemused that the directors of our Football Club can fail to answer questions from Sean and TonyKellysBelly on how they came to conclusions on why the New Meadow has been set-up as it has. Keith S's answer to 'What did you plan to do with the Players bar/Supporter's Bar/ Creche' was 'No idea'. I'm surprised that Mal Whittrick and Harry (don't know his surname) can speak to supporters with such utter contempt during an open meeting. As a supporter I felt that if I were a fire, Mal would not even have the inclination to p**s on me. I feel patronised that Keith Sayfritz believes we are trying to fight for a place where we can get subsidised beer, when no such thing has ever been mentioned. I'm wondering whether Bill Wingrove will ever manage to open his mouth and speak during a meeting with supporters. I (as Sean so rightfully put it) grew up last night. I'll do whatever I can to try and help income streams at MY football club. I will continue to wonder how this football club will serve its supporters in any way greater than for a couple of hours every other week. The way you were spoken to was really shocking Gaz, you did well to hold it together The idea of us getting there early to spend an extra £15 on a 3 course meal is quite amusing We may do it once a season just for the crack But we would go every week and spend £10 on a pie and 3 pints So they are losing £240 of my money to gain £15 ever season Even if it was just 200 of us that is £48k a year in revenue
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Post by SeanBroseley on Dec 15, 2004 11:26:46 GMT 1
Even if it was just 200 of us that is £48k a year in revenue That figure not being too far away from the returns that Torquay get from leasing out the bar operation - and equivalent to their profit on the bar when they ranit themsleves.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Dec 15, 2004 12:12:51 GMT 1
and that will be why then
they can take the leasehold value in revenue on a matchday
add the six other days a week and they are sitting on a tidy sum
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2004 12:16:25 GMT 1
and that will be why then they can take the leasehold value in revenue on a matchday add the six other days a week and they are sitting on a tidy sum It's almost as if it makes good financial sense.........
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Dec 15, 2004 12:23:55 GMT 1
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2004 13:11:01 GMT 1
Anyone know the landlord at the Crown? Find out how much he makes on a matchday through STFC and what capacity the pub has. Then present this to the club if we can present stone-cold proof that a larger supporters bar will generate a significant ammount of income then they will surely have to listen to reason. Also think about post-game income, most people will stay in the bar for at least an hour after the game or until closing time for a midweek game/have no social life on a Saturday night ;D Remember how packed the Crown was after the play-off final-100's of fans drinking like fish from 6ish until closing time, they must have made a mint! The club would have to be idiots not to cash in on the potential income of a decent sized supporters club! I'am REALLY worried about this move now
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Post by SlimShandy on Dec 15, 2004 13:13:08 GMT 1
The seats at the new ground are going to be blue and white, so f**k you. Not quite a direct quote. Perhaps the most depressing summing up ever. I don't know why the board don't just come out and say things like this. We all knwo what they mean.
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Post by Jonah guest on Dec 15, 2004 14:27:19 GMT 1
Cant really say I suprised by any of this. At the end of the day the club is a business run by business men who will do it their way regardless of how dedicated and honest they appear. I expect if it had something to do with doubling the electrical work required then Mals reaction would have been more sympathetic
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